Official Trade Thread - Part XXXII

[ozthegap]

Man if E.G had traded our 1st when we were 2-6 the trade would be looking like a steal right now. Fkn E.G(and Obama)!!! (I don't know how to green font)

[NatP4]

Raja Bell Went undrafted. Like look I don't disagree that seconds have value. I am advocating trading picks not and going all in because I see a chance at a tittle, everyone is beatable and the Cavs and not immortal anymore. I feel like a punchers chance aginst GS is worth going all in for cuz, who knows if its going to be there again.

Don't worry gambit, when Ernie drafts players in the 2nd round the narrative changes to "Marcus Thornton or a 2nd round pick is nitpicking, Ernie should've given Scott Brooks better options" these people are not objective. You don't hear from them whenever a Satoransky or McClellan plays well. You don't hear anything about how trading 2nd rounders to grab Oubre was a complete steal. It's all twisted into the "Ernie sucks" narrative.

Keep in mind, these people also predicted this team to be picking in the lottery, and are either still trying to downplay the teams success or simply don't realize how good the current team is, you can't depend on them to know whether or not it's buy now time or not.

We're a piece away, that one piece is not a 25th overall rookie or a 2nd rounder, it's a bench scorer and Mahinmi comeback, and Satoransky emergence.

flipping Trey Burke and a 2nd rounder for Will Barton is a no brainer.

Nat, do you actually read anything people write? In my case, for example, I've said at least a dozen times that I applauded Ernie trading a R2 pick to move up & nab Oubre. I've also been a big supporter of Sheldon McClellan -- as I've also written many times: "kudos to Ernie for finding and signing McClellan."

As to Satoransky, if you bothered, you'd see that the season-long adjustment period to the league is something I said was likely -- when Gambit & others were predicting he was going to win RoY & 6th man of the year.

TBH, it's rare for someone to post as continuously badly -- and insultingly -- as you do. I wonder how many people already have you on ignore.

I especially love your "one piece away... a bench scorer and Mahinmi comeback, and Satoransky emergence" -- I bet if you work on it, even you can learn to count to 3, Nat.

BTW, I've never before heard "Burke and a 2d rounder for Will Barton." I'm pretty sure no one has opposed that deal. Not that Denver would do it, of course. They wouldn't.

Gambit -- you are pretty typically enthusiastic. Positive. That's a good thing. & you'd be right that if there was "a chance at a title," it would justify "going all in." But I assume you can understand that a) not everyone sees "a chance at a title", and b) our current cap situation means that "going all in" has untenable consequences for next year and beyond.

I know you're busy calculating your formula for which place in the lottery we will be picking from, but if you could find some time in there to teach me how to read and count, that'd be great!

[payitforward]

...I know you're busy calculating your formula for which place in the lottery we will be picking from, but if you could find some time in there to teach me how to read and count, that'd be great!

Oh, you know how to read -- you just don't bother. Not so sure about counting tho... tell me again about how we're one piece away?

[gambitx777]

Gambit -- you are pretty typically enthusiastic. Positive. That's a good thing. & you'd be right that if there was "a chance at a title," it would justify "going all in." But I assume you can understand that a) not everyone sees "a chance at a title", and b) our current cap situation means that "going all in" has untenable consequences for next year and beyond.

Absolutely. I probably see things a little more on the positive side than most. Yes it could go south, we go all in, and beal gets hurt, or john goes down or we get bounced in a close series in the semies or LeBron turns it on in the finals Jr smith comes back and him and korver gell off the bench with what ever PG they bring in and we get merked. It's a risk, a big one. but on the positive side, we can beat any one 2-8 in the east. The cavs look mortal for the first time in a long time, and love and irving have trouble staying healthy. I just feel like there is a fair enough shot at it going towards the positive side that, wouldn't a ring now, make a few bad rebuild years 5-7 years down the road worth it. yes I agree, picks are to valuable to waste, Even seconds. and I toss around some of these heavy pick trades, one with the understanding of negotiating means you start low and hope you don't have to pay full price and that's what I feel it would take to get the deal done, not necessarily representing an undervaluing of the pick. Who knows what barton goes for, the market is shaping up weird as hell, because the hornets just traded for that bad Plummlee deal, with two pretty valuable contracts, of two serviceable bench players. Like talk about trading plumlee a weak ago and you would think you have to attache a first or a young dude to move him. Then korver went for peanuts on what is on paper value would be. a highly protected first, that turns into a second if not collected within 2 years starting in 2019 and they could not even get second out of Tim H JR. The trade market is not what we thought it was, at all. Like I said that 3 picks and bad contracts for mello idea, I don't think he goes for more than one in this trade market, if that. Like the denver board thinks that every player on their team is worth a first or two. Like its just not the market as its shaping up to be. Like Nicholson and burke and a protected 2018 first (top 8 or top 5) or two unprotected seconds (2017 and 2018) for barton, nelson and Petr Cornelie (21 years old french center) does not seem like an unreasonable deal in this market. Nor does the same deal for Morris and ish smith from the pistons. I kind of want to see what Mahinmi does when he comes back. I still think you could trade him, but idk this team has chemistry so I think you want to minimize what you move out and if Mahinmi can come in and play, 15-20 a game rebound well, block some shots, and protect the rim off the bench then, its worth it to keep the chemistry together, just to keep him.

[Ruzious]

Burke & Thornton are expiring contracts. We cannot trade expirings and take on salary in return because we'll be over the luxury tax after re-signing Otto. So Hawes... who isn't much better than Smith is a no-go.

We may already be in the position of having to dump Smith this coming off-season or next season due to the luxury tax.

So either we use our expirings like Burke/Thornton to acquire another expiring, or we trade Nicholson or Smith's salary slot with an asset to acquire another non-expiring deal. It's pretty much one or the other.

Mahinmi isn't getting traded... at least until he proves he gets on a court, proves he's healthy & fairly productive.
None of the starters or Oubre is getting dealt.
Sato makes so little and has marginal trade value, it probably is of little benefit to throw him in a deal.
McClellan, House or Ochefu make the rookie minimum and have no value whatsoever. So there's little reason to throw them in a deal.

That leaves Burke, Thornton, Smith & Nicholson. I assume Nicholson is the preferred option because Smith is at least somewhat playable. Thornton is probably the first guy to get cut if we get a 2 for 1 deal.

Dat, I know you've liked Lou Williams in the past. Would you trade Nicholson+future 1st for Lou Williams?

I'm on the fence. I do like Williams, he would fit nicely. We really need another productive rookie contract type however with our current roster construction. We'd have Williams for a yr & a half, getting out of Nicholson's deal would be nice though. I might do it for a top 20 protected 2018 draft pick. I just see some sure bets in the '17 draft even in the late 1st round that makes me really want to hold onto that pick.

How bout we add Nance to the deal: Williams and Nance for Nicholson and our 2017 1st and a 2nd rounder.

Nance has a ridiculously small contract for 2 more seasons, and the Lakers are stuck with 3 years to Deng as a 4/3 and have Randle as their PF of their future. Nance's presence gives Wiz enough depth to be okay with dumping Smith this offseason.

[Mojo Amok]

Snipped out Ibaka and Jefferson rumors:

Teams Are Shopping Recently Acquired Big Men

Earlier this week, a Western Conference executive told me that several teams were shopping big men that they had just added this past summer. He was somewhat surprised by this, and mentioned...Washington’s Ian Mahinmi....as some examples of recent frontcourt additions who are seemingly available.

It seems that some teams are already having buyer’s remorse about their offseason splurges. Now, executives say that all three teams are willing to move on from their recently acquired big man if the right offer comes along.

Keep an eye on these players, as well as other offseason additions who haven’t performed as expected or whose teams aren’t living up to expectations so far this season.

http://hoopshype.com/2017/02/03/nba-rumor-notebook-many-big-men-available-jimmy-butlers-future-melo-talk/

A shocking revelation that the Wizards would be willing to move Mahinmi and his $64 million dollar contract, but I thought it was worth throwing out there for the "shopping" line, which means they might be proactively trying to get something done (especially with him apparently coming back right before the deadline).

If something happened, Orlando might actually be a potential destination as they're rumored to be very eager to make some deals and I believe Vogel loves him.

They also have some bad contracts too.

[gambitx777]

Snipped out Ibaka and Jefferson rumors:

Teams Are Shopping Recently Acquired Big Men

Earlier this week, a Western Conference executive told me that several teams were shopping big men that they had just added this past summer. He was somewhat surprised by this, and mentioned...Washington’s Ian Mahinmi....as some examples of recent frontcourt additions who are seemingly available.

It seems that some teams are already having buyer’s remorse about their offseason splurges. Now, executives say that all three teams are willing to move on from their recently acquired big man if the right offer comes along.

Keep an eye on these players, as well as other offseason additions who haven’t performed as expected or whose teams aren’t living up to expectations so far this season.

http://hoopshype.com/2017/02/03/nba-rumor-notebook-many-big-men-available-jimmy-butlers-future-melo-talk/

A shocking revelation that the Wizards would be willing to move Mahinmi and his $64 million dollar contract, but I thought it was worth throwing out there for the "shopping" line, which means they might be proactively trying to get something done (especially with him apparently coming back right before the deadline).

If something happened, Orlando might actually be a potential destination as they're rumored to be very eager to make some deals and I believe Vogel loves him.

Interesting, I wonder if they would trade mahinmi for Jeff green or Ibaka straight up knowing that they won't get much in return for them being on one year deals that won't sign extensions. Jeff green would at least be an upgrade over Nicholson as a stretch 4. Ibaka would probably split time with morris. But if they don't make us give up more than a second or two or a heavily protected future first Id jump on it. Cuz its very similar to what the Plumlee trade was, then they can maybe more Bismack to a team in desperate center need. A dallas trade for them for expirings makes all the sense in the world for them, hell maybe we could even pull that off with mahinmi, and get Bogout and williams rental for the rest of the season makes sense and helps the bench. Then you go and see about getting a barton and Nurkic trade done to finish fixing them bench.

[deneem4]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j7sa3b9

Wiz trade smith, nicholson, burke, 2017 1st
Wiz get leonard, williams, Vonleh

Gets a backup guard, a stretch big and vonleh as a backup pf

Blazers trade Leonard, Vonleh, Ezeli, la 2019 2nd
Blazers get young, black, nicholson,

Gets a tough big man with black some more shooting with nick and a post up player in Nicholson...

Lakers trade young, Williams, black
Lakers get smith, Ezeli, burke, 2017 wiz 1st, 2019 2nd back from blazers

Lakers add life back into the tank and get another pick just in case

Blazers can swap Nicholson for Smith if they want

Wall/sato
Beal/lou
Porter/oubre
Morris/vonleh
Gortat/Leonard/mahinmi

[J-Ves]

Snipped out Ibaka and Jefferson rumors:

Teams Are Shopping Recently Acquired Big Men

Earlier this week, a Western Conference executive told me that several teams were shopping big men that they had just added this past summer. He was somewhat surprised by this, and mentioned...Washington’s Ian Mahinmi....as some examples of recent frontcourt additions who are seemingly available.

It seems that some teams are already having buyer’s remorse about their offseason splurges. Now, executives say that all three teams are willing to move on from their recently acquired big man if the right offer comes along.

Keep an eye on these players, as well as other offseason additions who haven’t performed as expected or whose teams aren’t living up to expectations so far this season.

http://hoopshype.com/2017/02/03/nba-rumor-notebook-many-big-men-available-jimmy-butlers-future-melo-talk/

A shocking revelation that the Wizards would be willing to move Mahinmi and his $64 million dollar contract, but I thought it was worth throwing out there for the "shopping" line, which means they might be proactively trying to get something done (especially with him apparently coming back right before the deadline).

If something happened, Orlando might actually be a potential destination as they're rumored to be very eager to make some deals and I believe Vogel loves him.

They also have some bad contracts too.

I don't see it. Vogel may love him, but how can a team take a chance on an over 30 year old big with problems with both knees on an expensive 4 year deal? Maybe Orlando is having buyers remorse with Fournier who signed a 5 year deal last off season but they have a glut of bigs already, I don't see them making a move for Mahinmi even if he was healthy.

Edit. Looking at their roster again I wonder If they'd do Vucevic for Mahinmi + 2018 1st. The Wiz get out of lux tax concerns for next year(or at least get close) and pick up a guy who could really help out the bench. Seems like a bad deal for Orlando, but if Vogel really does love Mahinmi...

[Mojo Amok]

I don't see it. Vogel may love him, but how can a team take a chance on an over 30 year old big with problems with both knees on an expensive 4 year deal? Maybe Orlando is having buyers remorse with Fournier who signed a 5 year deal last off season but they have a glut of bigs already, I don't see them making a move for Mahinmi even if he was healthy.

I just wanted to post the rumor, the odds of a Mahinmi trade to any specific team is obviously minuscule and was a throw in comment.

But it's of note that the article I linked was making a point that Orlando is one of the most likely teams in the league to make a deal and none of their pieces seem to fit. Plus their centers have either been mentioned in trade rumors or have contracts about as bad as Mahinmi (plus they have another bad contract in Augustin).

[Dat2U]

Dat, I know you've liked Lou Williams in the past. Would you trade Nicholson+future 1st for Lou Williams?

I'm on the fence. I do like Williams, he would fit nicely. We really need another productive rookie contract type however with our current roster construction. We'd have Williams for a yr & a half, getting out of Nicholson's deal would be nice though. I might do it for a top 20 protected 2018 draft pick. I just see some sure bets in the '17 draft even in the late 1st round that makes me really want to hold onto that pick.

How bout we add Nance to the deal: Williams and Nance for Nicholson and our 2017 1st and a 2nd rounder.

Nance has a ridiculously small contract for 2 more seasons, and the Lakers are stuck with 3 years to Deng as a 4/3 and have Randle as their PF of their future. Nance's presence gives Wiz enough depth to be okay with dumping Smith this offseason.

I don't see the Lakers agreeing to it but yeah, I'd sign off on that in a heartbeat. I actually like Nance Jr. more than Randle.

[NatP4]

Burke and Mahinmi for Ibaka and Hezonja. MAKE IT HAPPEN NOW

[payitforward]

I'm on the fence. I do like Williams, he would fit nicely. We really need another productive rookie contract type however with our current roster construction. We'd have Williams for a yr & a half, getting out of Nicholson's deal would be nice though. I might do it for a top 20 protected 2018 draft pick. I just see some sure bets in the '17 draft even in the late 1st round that makes me really want to hold onto that pick.

How bout we add Nance to the deal: Williams and Nance for Nicholson and our 2017 1st and a 2nd rounder.

Nance has a ridiculously small contract for 2 more seasons, and the Lakers are stuck with 3 years to Deng as a 4/3 and have Randle as their PF of their future. Nance's presence gives Wiz enough depth to be okay with dumping Smith this offseason.

I don't see the Lakers agreeing to it but yeah, I'd sign off on that in a heartbeat. I actually like Nance Jr. more than Randle.

I like Nance a lot as well. Biggest positive surprise out of the 2015 draft.

[payitforward]

Burke and Mahinmi for Ibaka and Hezonja. MAKE IT HAPPEN NOW

That's a great idea, as it would free up our salary structure a lot at the end of the season. We could simply let Ibaka go -- he has been declining for a few years & has declined even more, a lot more, this year. Hezonja has been awful so far, but he's young & worth taking a short-term chance on.

Of course, Orlando has Bismack Biyombo & Nikola Vucevic at Center already, & they have a rookie, Stephen Zimmerman, lined up at that spot too (well... maybe he'll wind up a 4?). I don't see why they'd be tempted by that trade, do you?

[payitforward]

If we did get Nat's trade done, we'd have 11 guys at $82m for next year. Max Porter, and add a R1 pick & a R2 pick, and we sneak into safe territory financially.

[NatP4]

Burke and Mahinmi for Ibaka and Hezonja. MAKE IT HAPPEN NOW

That's a great idea, as it would free up our salary structure a lot at the end of the season. We could simply let Ibaka go -- he has been declining for a few years & has declined even more, a lot more, this year. Hezonja has been awful so far, but he's young & worth taking a short-term chance on.

Of course, Orlando has Bismack Biyombo & Nikola Vucevic at Center already, & they have a rookie, Stephen Zimmerman, lined up at that spot too (well... maybe he'll wind up a 4?). I don't see why they'd be tempted by that trade, do you?

Assuming Mahinmi shows he's healthy before deadline, the word is that Vogel loves Mahinmi, maybe they don't wanna lose Ibaka for nothing and would rather have the player under contract. They have definitely given up on hezonja, collecting DNPs, having a rough season.

Who knows, seems lopsided to me, but Orlando reportedly is desperate to make some trades.

[J-Ves]

BulletsForever recently had a roundtable conversation on what to do about Nicholson and former RealGM poster Nivek/TSW/Kevin Broom had a somewhat surprising take on the situation:

Kevin Broom: I’m a bit surprised how clingy everyone’s being with the first round pick. This team has spent the past several years burning assets to make up for Ernie Grunfeld’s mistakes, so they could “compete” to make the playoffs. This year they might have a chance to burn assets to make up for Grunfeld mistakes to compete in the playoffs.

I understand the points about player development and obtaining young players for the future. Buy a second round pick or two, or maybe even a late first. But no one in the East is dominant and this could be an opportunity for a team like the Wizards to do something special – if they can shore up their biggest weaknesses (crappy bench and no depth).

They have frontcourt help coming if Mahinmi can get healthy. Dangle Nicholson and that first and see what backcourt help is available.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2017/2/4/14501786/andrew-nicholson-washington-wizards-team-analysis

[torotoe]

Any interest in Will Barton? He's a pretty decent player. Not without his warts, but a good rebounder, 40% 3pt shooter with an aggressive play style. I think he could contribute to your bench play. Asking price would probably be a 1st, due to his low contract, but I'd be hesitant to take back the long term deal of Nicholson.

[NatP4]

Any interest in Will Barton? He's a pretty decent player. Not without his warts, but a good rebounder, 40% 3pt shooter with an aggressive play style. I think he could contribute to your bench play. Asking price would probably be a 1st, due to his low contract, but I'd be hesitant to take back the long term deal of Nicholson.

Yes, I would do a 2018 top 10 protected first plus Trey Burke for Will Barton. His per36 numbers are really good, fits our team nicely.

[J-Ves]

Any interest in Will Barton? He's a pretty decent player. Not without his warts, but a good rebounder, 40% 3pt shooter with an aggressive play style. I think he could contribute to your bench play. Asking price would probably be a 1st, due to his low contract, but I'd be hesitant to take back the long term deal of Nicholson.

There's interest, but If Denver isn't willing to take back Nicholson then there's no point in continuing trade talks. Nicholson + 1st is what the Wizards are offering and if Nicholson's contract is too much of a road block, which is completely understandable btw, than the Wiz stay pat.