Ten game checkup (twitter thread)

[duncansmithnba]

Hey guys, some of you know me as "that twitter guy", others perhaps as the Piston Powered guy.

I did some digging in on interesting stuff that has been happening with the Pistons in the last ten games from a statistical standpoint. I'll embed the tweet thread.

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Notable: The Pistons score like the Warriors for the 18 mpg Ish Smith plays over the last 10 games and slightly better than the Sixers (NBA's worst offense) when Reggie plays.

Also notable, the Pistons are rebounding gods when Ish plays.

Perhaps notable, this team is the biggest mind**** I've ever seen.

[DBC10]

Yeah, this team is probably the team that makes the least amount of sense right now. And those stats prove it, it's like a lot of our guys just don't mesh or shouldn't get extended minutes even though they're actually not bad. Especially been the case with RJ and to an extent Dre.

[Pharaoh]

As stated in another thread we have 2 halves of a really good team...the problem is those 2 halves are from 2 very different teams! And we have a 3rd group trapped in the middle!

On one side we have Baynes, Jon, Harris, KCP & Ish - all have clearly defined roles and work hard to be successful at them, they make extra efforts and try to play the right way and share the ball, pushing the pace to get buckets before the D is set.

[For those ready to criticize Tobias - scoring the ball is his role]

On the other side we have Dre, & RJ - they have clearly defined roles too. Pound the rock, PnR, slow it down, grind it out...but don't give extra efforts on D every night & aren't surrounded by the shooters needed for them to maximise their skills.

Caught somewhere in the middle are Mook, SJ & Bullock - fine role players that can compliment both sides depending on the way the game flows

This is what happens when you collect assets.

The time has come for SVG to pick a side and determine what type of team he really wants here

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[Canadafan]

The time has come for SVG to pick a side and determine what type of team he really wants here.

Nice point. I agree. In time this will all sort itself out. It's nice to have lots of assets at our disposal

[Cowology]

Statistical evidence backing up what most of us have already concluded by simply using the eye test. Not shocking, but still somewhat alarming to see the numbers actually put in front of us.

We have top 4 talent in the east, but it doesn't fit together and we're dysfunctional. Sooner or later our opposing styles will bubble over and the frustration is going split our locker room in half of it hasn't already.

[DocRI]

Good stuff, Duncan. And again, welcome to the forum!

One thing I've noticed that your stats seem to back up — watch Mook's rebounding numbers (assists too, but especially rebounds). They're a barometer for our team's success. It's not his scoring, and not even his shooting; when Marcus Morris does more than just score, the Pistons usually win. Keith Smith (aka Smitty) over on the T&T Board wrote last year that Morris was playing like "Draymond-lite" for us, and I don't think it's a coincidence that he was only averaging like 2 rebounds during our 10-game stretch of rancid basketball. Even on his off shooting nights, if Morris contributes 5+ boards and 4+ dimes, we're typically in good shape.

[MotownMadness]

Reggie has gotta still be hurting. He's never really been a run the offense type of PG but he settles for jump shots and drags ass to much to be fully healthy. Last year he was phenomenal getting to the rim and converting. Now he's getting his points more from long jump shots.

[russkopp]

Reggie, to me at least, seems to have the personality of someone who would play through a knee injury when it's detrimental to him and his team. "It's my team, those are my guys, I have to win the game for us" when actually he just hurts us.

He looks like he's aged 6 years solely by driving to rim. No lift, packed constantly and misses far more than last year.

[sc8581]

Morris brings leadership, Ish brings energy, shows in those stats.

[Blkbrd671]

IF RJ simply ran the floor like ish, especially off defensive rebounds and stopped acting like MJ at the end of games, literally would solve most of the problems w him. while i am tempted to blame injury,it more has to do with mentality.

[MotownMadness]

IF RJ simply ran the floor like ish, especially off defensive rebounds and stopped acting like MJ at the end of games, literally would solve most of the problems w him. while i am tempted to blame injury,it more has to do with mentality.

Yeah if his offense isn't good enough to carry the team anymore like it was last year then he's got to find a way to run the offense and get that ball moving around more. I have my doubts about him doing any of that though as is maturity level is very low. I just want to move on from him bad at this point, especially cause I don't trust that knee at all.

[Blkbrd671]

IF RJ simply ran the floor like ish, especially off defensive rebounds and stopped acting like MJ at the end of games, literally would solve most of the problems w him. while i am tempted to blame injury,it more has to do with mentality.

Yeah if his offense isn't good enough to carry the team anymore like it was last year then he's got to find a way to run the offense and get that ball moving around more. I have my doubts about him doing any of that though as is maturity level is very low. I just want to move on from him bad at this point, especially cause I don't trust that knee at all.

when a players is being a f* mopey b* because he didn't get to play at the end of a game we won...............gtfo. RJ wants to be the guy and makes excuses in his head why he's not producing like one.

[Pharaoh]

RJ wants to be THE guy when people talk about whatever team he's on...

He's NEVER gonna be that guy though

IF he wants to be THE guy people talk about when they talk about the Pistons sacrifice your own ego and stats to WIN!

Be the guy that elevates everyone else!

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[JonW138]

Analyzing the last 10 games as one data set is useless, given all the different lineups used in that time. Morris started at shooting guard and Baynes at power forward in the first game. Bullock and Harris started the next 3. Then Pope and Leuer started the last 6.

If you want to analyze the teams recent play, comparing the 3 different lineups would be a more accurate and meaningful analysis.

Jackson/Morris/Harris/Baynes/Drummond (0W-1L)

Offense: 82.8 ortg, 77 points, 39.8% FG, 35.3% 3P, 15 assists, 13 turnovers
Defense: 119.9 drtg, 110 points, 53.8% FG, 51.6% 3P, 44 points in the paint

Jackson/Bullock/Morris/Harris/Drummond (3W-0L)

Offense: 110.6 ortg, 111.0 ppg, 47.3% FG, 38.5% 3P, 25.3 apg, 13.3 topg
Defense: 100.7 drtg, 101.3 ppg, 41.7% FG, 26.0% 3P, 42.7 points in the paint

Jackson/Pope/Morris/Leuer/Drummond (2W-4L)

Offense: 106.7 ortg, 105.7 ppg, 47.8% FG, 32.4% 3P, 21.0 apg, 12.7 topg
Defense: 110.5 drtg, 108.2 ppg, 48.9% FG, 37.0% 3P, 50.3 points in the paint

[ImHeisenberg]

The time has come for SVG to pick a side and determine what type of team he really wants here.

Nice point. I agree. In time this will all sort itself out. It's nice to have lots of assets at our disposal

He's always preached a defense first team. But, he's chronically acquired offensive minded players.

[El Chivo]

The time has come for SVG to pick a side and determine what type of team he really wants here.

Nice point. I agree. In time this will all sort itself out. It's nice to have lots of assets at our disposal

He's always preached a defense first team. But, he's chronically acquired offensive minded players.

And somehow our offense stinks...

[Pharaoh]

Analyzing the last 10 games as one data set is useless, given all the different lineups used in that time. Morris started at shooting guard and Baynes at power forward in the first game. Bullock and Harris started the next 3. Then Pope and Leuer started the last 6.

If you want to analyze the teams recent play, comparing the 3 different lineups would be a more accurate and meaningful analysis.

Jackson/Morris/Harris/Baynes/Drummond (0W-1L)

Offense: 82.8 ortg, 77 points, 39.8% FG, 35.3% 3P, 15 assists, 13 turnovers
Defense: 119.9 drtg, 110 points, 53.8% FG, 51.6% 3P, 44 points in the paint

Jackson/Bullock/Morris/Harris/Drummond (3W-0L)

Offense: 110.6 ortg, 111.0 ppg, 47.3% FG, 38.5% 3P, 25.3 apg, 13.3 topg
Defense: 100.7 drtg, 101.3 ppg, 41.7% FG, 26.0% 3P, 42.7 points in the paint

Jackson/Pope/Morris/Leuer/Drummond (2W-4L)

Offense: 106.7 ortg, 105.7 ppg, 47.8% FG, 32.4% 3P, 21.0 apg, 12.7 topg
Defense: 110.5 drtg, 108.2 ppg, 48.9% FG, 37.0% 3P, 50.3 points in the paint

As long term basketball fans we should all know why the Bullock line up is the best of this bunch...

And that backs up exactly my point:

We're not ONE complete team - we have pieces of a 2 very different good teams but those pieces don't add up to much more than .500

Maybe SVG is hoping that over time they blend together well enough to be the rarest of teams:

No real superstar but capable of beating you in a grind it out PnR heavy, iso style while being able to also beat you while playing a more GSW/SAS style

OR we pick a side and go all in on that one sooner rather than later

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[duncansmithnba]

Analyzing the last 10 games as one data set is useless, given all the different lineups used in that time. Morris started at shooting guard and Baynes at power forward in the first game. Bullock and Harris started the next 3. Then Pope and Leuer started the last 6.

If you want to analyze the teams recent play, comparing the 3 different lineups would be a more accurate and meaningful analysis.

Jackson/Morris/Harris/Baynes/Drummond (0W-1L)

Offense: 82.8 ortg, 77 points, 39.8% FG, 35.3% 3P, 15 assists, 13 turnovers
Defense: 119.9 drtg, 110 points, 53.8% FG, 51.6% 3P, 44 points in the paint

Jackson/Bullock/Morris/Harris/Drummond (3W-0L)

Offense: 110.6 ortg, 111.0 ppg, 47.3% FG, 38.5% 3P, 25.3 apg, 13.3 topg
Defense: 100.7 drtg, 101.3 ppg, 41.7% FG, 26.0% 3P, 42.7 points in the paint

Jackson/Pope/Morris/Leuer/Drummond (2W-4L)

Offense: 106.7 ortg, 105.7 ppg, 47.8% FG, 32.4% 3P, 21.0 apg, 12.7 topg
Defense: 110.5 drtg, 108.2 ppg, 48.9% FG, 37.0% 3P, 50.3 points in the paint

Of course you can break down the nuances of each individual lineup and that's a more in-depth look at what's happening. I tend to take deeper looks at these things in my work on Piston Powered and whatnot (like the pace discussion and thread which I believe made its way over here), but there's also value in starting the discussion noting such things as the Pistons score a ton of points with Ish Smith, a demonstrably mediocre guard, and have a terrible offense with Reggie Jackson.

Also, it stands to reason that that RJ/MM/TH/AB/AD lineup had such horrific numbers considering it's a dreadful unit and they were playing the Jazz. It doesn't, however, explain why the Pistons score points like crazy when Ish plays. In addition over every significant sample this season (over the whole season, since Reggie came back, since he started playing really well in late December, and the last ten games) Ish has a higher offensive rating and the team's production as a whole is significantly higher.

There's nothing wrong with the more minute analysis you suggest, but we're not doing ourselves any favors by ignoring stuff like this.


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[DBC10]

Ah the useless data analysis of highlighting Bullock with a sample size so small while trying to downplay KCP and Leuer

JonW aka Todd3 welcome back to the forums. I knew you couldn't stay away. Plus after you got banned 2 years ago using Q00 I believe you replied with that exact account as Jon to one of my posts.

So Todd is back... great.

[El Chivo]

If you Cherry pick Boban's stats in the game against Charlotte then you have Shaq supercharged