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Tankapolooza: Draft Lottery Odds/Watch thread

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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/2/17, 03:58 AM 

Post#241 » by rcklsscognition » Sun Feb 5, 2017 2:34 am

rcklsscognition wrote:So we have a huge cluster of teams right now and it's the month where things start to settle. There are 11 teams within a solid week or two of tanking of each other. Hopeful we stay on track losing 3 out of every 4 and we should be able to fall faster than the other teams. A simple 3 game winning streak right now would be suicidal for the draft.

Anyone can tank easily after the trade deadline, but doing so the few weeks before the deadline will be the difference this season. We will be set if we can secure just 1 win before AS break and go into it with just 20 wins. Lose to the Heat, Mavs, 76ers in there and take a W against the Raptors tonight, or the Spurs/Hawks, and we'll be set.

After the AS break, we only have 3 games against taking teams for the entire rest of the season. 1 against each of Philly, Phoenix, and Miami.


Just got to stay on track. :pray:
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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/4/17, 05:05 AM 

Post#242 » by OrlandO » Sun Feb 5, 2017 2:47 am

If we can't push LA out of the top 3 the good news is Philly will probably try hard to do it.
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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/4/17, 05:05 AM 

Post#243 » by JF5 » Sun Feb 5, 2017 3:10 am

cedric76 wrote:People need to stop with that pf bs. He is best at sf.

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But how so?

He's not a good enough dribbler, and honestly I can't see his handles improving much more than this.

He's a VERY poor shooter for the position as he's shooting 29 Percent from 3 which is putrid for a perimeter player, and his overall scoring relies on his shooting because he can barely get to the rim if at all if it isn't a cross-match up.

His percentages from different ranges.

0-5 ft: 67.8 Percent
5-9 ft: 26.8 Percent
10-14 ft: 40.0 Percent
15-19 ft: 31.4 Percent
20-24 ft: 27.7 Percent
25-29 ft: 32.1 Percent

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/203932/shooting/

Those aren't shooting numbers that even scream starter for even a below average Small Forward. He needs to move back to the 4...
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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/4/17, 05:05 AM 

Post#244 » by rcklsscognition » Sun Feb 5, 2017 3:23 am

Heat won their 10th in a row! They're still 10 games under .500 and we can't even win 2 in a row.
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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/4/17, 05:05 AM 

Post#245 » by Xatticus » Sun Feb 5, 2017 3:40 am

MoMM wrote:From next PG/Kawli to "solid starter" wannabe...

In 2018 he will become a UFA, how much will he ask for? Will we pay him based on potential?


He is being asked to do things that he isn't well-suited for, and that is making people forget about the things that made him such an exciting prospect last year. He was impactful last season while having essentially nothing scripted for him on the offensive end. Off-the-ball cuts and offensive rebounding was enough to get him some opportunities to contribute at the offensive end. We tolerated the occasional errant shot because his talents were allowing his productivity to shine despite his deficiencies.

I think a part of the problem is that he wants to be more of a wing than a conventional big. There was a trend of this for many years where roles and positions were mislabeled (threes became twos; fives became fours) because many of the skills that make bigs so effective aren't glamorous enough. If he thinks of himself as a perimeter player, we have a problem. It's not where his talents lie.

Gordon is capable of being very good at things that help a team win, but don't necessarily translate to adoration or contract negotiation leverage. Fournier scores points and does so with above average shooting efficiency metrics. He provides almost nothing else, but that is enough to get you paid.

What concerns me about Gordon's situation is that his role has completely changed. He is being asked to do things that have very little to do with what got him drafted 4th overall. If he comes out of college as a wing that can't dribble or shoot, his athleticism isn't nearly enough to carry him to the top of the draft. The shift in development isn't a big problem by itself, except that it seems to be coming at the expense of the skills that made him an elite prospect. This is what I found so incomprehensible about Vogel's explanation of why Gordon isn't being utilized as a roll man in PnR situations.

I thought this new role was simply a way to get him court time while accommodating the additions of Ibaka and Biyombo, but comments from Vogel and Hennigan are making me wonder if organizational incompetence isn't the real problem. You don't pick a mold and try to cram a player into it. You put them in situations that accentuate their advantages and mitigate their deficiencies. We seem to be doing the opposite with Gordon. For what? So we can find minutes for "rim protectors" to try to mask the deficiencies of Vucevic and Fournier? If we make Gordon available, 29 other teams will be there hoping to vulture from our mishandling of his development.
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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/4/17, 05:05 AM 

Post#246 » by MagicFan32 » Sun Feb 5, 2017 3:50 am

the magic suck and every win keeps us in further purgatory. tired of missing out on great players because we win a few extra meaningless games. anyone talking playoffs needs a dose of reality.
aol4532 on bill russell
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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/4/17, 05:05 AM 

Post#247 » by PennytoShaq » Sun Feb 5, 2017 3:56 am

npiper17 wrote:
CamWinfree wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:
Strong first post. Agree with it all.


I've talked with Steve Kyler from Basketball Insiders a lot, he's told me a bunch of things and I just now decided to come on here and start talking about it lol


- CamWinfree


Steve Kyler and Basketball Insiders. There's an oxymoron if ever I saw one.


Is it though? The guy has decent content. It seems like anyone who writes about basketball besides Woj gets bashed here.
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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/4/17, 05:05 AM 

Post#248 » by CamWinfree » Sun Feb 5, 2017 3:59 am

This Atlanta game should show everybody that this isn't a playoff team. They need to move Ibaka asap and tank. Rob should know that his job security shouldn't be prioritized over the teams long term success.


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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/4/17, 05:05 AM 

Post#249 » by pepe1991 » Sun Feb 5, 2017 4:04 am

Atlanta was pretending that Payton does not exist, leaving him wide open forcing team to play 4 on 5 on offense
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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/4/17, 05:05 AM 

Post#250 » by j-ragg » Sun Feb 5, 2017 4:12 am

PennytoShaq wrote:
npiper17 wrote:
CamWinfree wrote:
I've talked with Steve Kyler from Basketball Insiders a lot, he's told me a bunch of things and I just now decided to come on here and start talking about it lol


- CamWinfree


Steve Kyler and Basketball Insiders. There's an oxymoron if ever I saw one.


Is it though? The guy has decent content. It seems like anyone who writes about basketball besides Woj gets bashed here.

I like a lot of writers that aren't Woj. Even though all any of them do is whine about Trump on Twitter. But Kyler just has never struck me as really knowledgeable and in terms of insider info... he just talks a lot without saying anything IMO.
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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/4/17, 05:05 AM 

Post#251 » by rcklsscognition » Sun Feb 5, 2017 4:32 am

pepe1991 wrote:Atlanta was pretending that Payton does not exist, leaving him wide open forcing team to play 4 on 5 on offense


This was the defense they played on him from 3. Jogged over, never raised his arms on Payton threes.

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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/4/17, 05:05 AM 

Post#252 » by Viper1500 » Sun Feb 5, 2017 6:17 am

Kings beat the warriors


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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/4/17, 05:05 AM 

Post#253 » by ChosenSavior » Sun Feb 5, 2017 6:27 am

We would have been sitting pretty had we lost to Toronto on Friday.
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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/5/17, 03:21 AM 

Post#254 » by NEM » Sun Feb 5, 2017 8:23 am

UPDATED

Those two Toronto wins are really **** us right now
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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/4/17, 05:05 AM 

Post#255 » by mityamag » Sun Feb 5, 2017 8:48 am

rcklsscognition wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Atlanta was pretending that Payton does not exist, leaving him wide open forcing team to play 4 on 5 on offense


This was the defense they played on him from 3. Jogged over, never raised his arms on Payton threes.

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I just don't understand how could you be a good shooter with that forelock??
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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/4/17, 05:05 AM 

Post#256 » by Edual » Sun Feb 5, 2017 9:45 am

JF5 wrote:
cedric76 wrote:People need to stop with that pf bs. He is best at sf.

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But how so?

He's not a good enough dribbler, and honestly I can't see his handles improving much more than this.

He's a VERY poor shooter for the position as he's shooting 29 Percent from 3 which is putrid for a perimeter player, and his overall scoring relies on his shooting because he can barely get to the rim if at all if it isn't a cross-match up.

His percentages from different ranges.

0-5 ft: 67.8 Percent
5-9 ft: 26.8 Percent
10-14 ft: 40.0 Percent
15-19 ft: 31.4 Percent
20-24 ft: 27.7 Percent
25-29 ft: 32.1 Percent

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/203932/shooting/

Those aren't shooting numbers that even scream starter for even a below average Small Forward. He needs to move back to the 4...


Compared to I guess someone like Wilson Chandler the #'s are not that far off, ehh maybe thats why chandler is not a starter, I mean I know Gordon is a bad shooter but he seems to be very good at defending the #3... good enough where his defense outweighs his offence. If you put him at the #4 he likely will just suck on both ends.

Draymond Greens Numbers are horrible, but he makes up for it on D
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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/4/17, 05:05 AM 

Post#257 » by npiper17 » Sun Feb 5, 2017 10:37 am

PennytoShaq wrote:
npiper17 wrote:
CamWinfree wrote:
I've talked with Steve Kyler from Basketball Insiders a lot, he's told me a bunch of things and I just now decided to come on here and start talking about it lol


- CamWinfree


Steve Kyler and Basketball Insiders. There's an oxymoron if ever I saw one.


Is it though? The guy has decent content. It seems like anyone who writes about basketball besides Woj gets bashed here.


There's a number of good writers who are often quoted / praised on here e.g. Marc Stein, Sam Amick, Sean Deveney.

I'm not a fan of Kyler - he hypes his supposed relationships to the point that his podcasts are 'unlistenable.' In truth, I don't doubt he has a few connections but he never breaks news so calling himself an insider is not exactly accurate.
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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/4/17, 05:05 AM 

Post#258 » by Skybox » Sun Feb 5, 2017 12:22 pm

j-ragg wrote:
Skybox wrote:I thought he'd put the ball on the floor, two dribbles and jump into and over a crowd. Draw fouls and make some. Also, nightly tip in dunks like Dominique- working the baseline and just frustrating the opposition's defensive rebounding...even just Rodman-esque would be great.defender. That's about it...I hope I'm wrong.

Christ almighty.

"If we was as good as HOFer Dominique Wilkins that would be fine. Even if he could just rebound and defend like Rodman I'd be okay with it" hahaha you pick two that were the best at their craft for his comparisons?

Ugh if he could shoot like Peja that'd be great. Or even if just Steph Curry I'd tolerate it. Reel in your expectations. And even if that's how you feel, that makes you want to trade him?


I'm not saying he'd be them...just model his game on those particular facets of their hall of fame careers. Kind of like, "even j-ragg might occasionally make a comment as insightful as Woj" doesn't mean you're Woj on a daily basis (particularly this time). Maybe don't put quotes around it if it isn't a quote.
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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/4/17, 05:05 AM 

Post#259 » by Skybox » Sun Feb 5, 2017 12:41 pm

OrlandO wrote:
Skybox wrote:I like him too but I think I have to face that I'm being delusional after a few years of zip. Blame the progression of coaches and teammates, out of position, etc. I don't like to hear "being patient" and "letting the game come to him"....I thought he'd put the ball on the floor, two dribbles and jump into and over a crowd. Draw fouls and make some. Also, nightly tip in dunks like Dominique- working the baseline and just frustrating the opposition's defensive rebounding...even just Rodman-esque would be great.Even without a shot, he could do a lot more damage, IMO...those aren't the kinds of things that develop over a decade. I would love to see him just play angrier, like every shot's a miss, dunk them all!

He's a solid piece so far. Very good on ball defender. That's about it...I hope I'm wrong.

My favorite guy on the team but...have to consider his trade value in the league just like any other player. AG being "untouchable" must make Vuc just shake his head after going 17/10 every time he gets PT... :banghead:

You'd see him crash the glass for putbacks a lot more if he was at PF. I bet he'd have an easier time driving against PFs, too. With Ibaka on his way out, the front office needs to stop screwing around and decide once and for all where they want to develop AG and stick with it. I'd go with PF after what I saw from him this year at SF. Get a 3&D SF to play alongside him.

Have we forgotten?


I could watch that video all day...He's absolutely built for that kind of "get to the rim" mayhem. Just get up there and see what happens improvisation with and without the ball. Those out-of-nowhere putbacks were a nightly occurrence last year...this year, he's like the fat kid who can really shoot standing out at the 3-point line yelling "I'm open guys". Trade him for Doug McDermott or use him like the athletic instinctive electrifying player he is...today's refs reward that and nobody else on the team draws fouls regularly...his highlights and dunk contest glory are getting him more star recognition (than he deserves?) and that helps with getting the calls. If he's cutting and a blur of motion on the offensive end, other teams have to game plan for that and always be aware of where he is.
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Re: Tankapolooza: UPDATED 2/5/17, 03:21 AM 

Post#260 » by Dgbarnes » Sun Feb 5, 2017 5:17 pm

Huge night for the tank on Monday.

Lakers v. Knicks
76ers v. Pistons
Suns v. Pelicans
Heat v. Timberwolves
Mavs v. Nuggets
Bulls v. Kings

All very winnable games for those in the tank race.
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