Political Roundtable Part XII

[Induveca]

Pure hysteria? I don't think so.

The gay and lesbian community has every right to be concerned. Many of Trump's supporters, particularly those in the evangelical community, would like nothing more than to turn back the clock on gay rights and marriage equality. And given that Trump is a wild card who seems intent on pleasing his supporters, there's no telling what he might do. So I think it's smart for the gay and lesbian community--and its allies--to remain vigilant and mobilized.

Trump is pretty pro LGBT. I'm not worried about that.

Trump is pro Trump. He'll do whatever he thinks will make him look good. Why should the gay and lesbian community--or any other community--trust him?

You just advocated for all groups to remain "mobilized" against the President, as he can't be trusted in any community. Groups are protesting Trump purely in anticipation of illusionary threats, and collectively justifying these actions by invoking Hitler and inducing irrational fear.

Mass Hysteria: Phenomenon that transmits collective illusions of threats, whether real or imaginary, through a population in society as a result of rumors and fear (memory acknowledgment).

The very definition of mass hysteria.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/areomagazine.com/2017/01/23/gad-saad-on-hysteria-and-collective-munchausen-around-donald-trump-speaking-out-as-an-academic-and-evolutionary-psychology-101/amp/?client=safari

In depth analysis by a well-known psychologist (who fights common mass hysteria in academia settings) at Wellesley.

[verbal8]

Trump is pretty pro LGBT. I'm not worried about that.

Trump is pro Trump. He'll do whatever he thinks will make him look good. Why should the gay and lesbian community--or any other community--trust him?

You just advocated for all groups to remain "mobilized" against the President, as he can't be trusted in any community. Groups are protesting Trump purely in anticipation of illusionary threats, and collectively justifying these actions by invoking Hitler and inducing irrational fear.

Mass Hysteria: Phenomenon that transmits collective illusions of threats, whether real or imaginary, through a population in society as a result of rumors and fear (memory acknowledgment).

The very definition of mass hysteria.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/areomagazine.com/2017/01/23/gad-saad-on-hysteria-and-collective-munchausen-around-donald-trump-speaking-out-as-an-academic-and-evolutionary-psychology-101/amp/?client=safari

In depth analysis by a well-known psychologist (who fights common mass hysteria in academia settings) at Wellesley.

Illusions of threats? Like "Bowling Green"? Or the danger from Muslim refugees?

[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[dckingsfan]

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Meh. Obama went on a rule issuing spree while he was in office. He bypassed congress and now some of them are getting pushed back - this is a big yawn for me. His administration is the king of new rules - hundreds of thousands of pages of them.

If you are in business - it is now impossible not to be outside the law. You simply can't know or comply with all the rules - I personally think that is a bad thing.

BTW, this is different from executive orders - Obama issued about the same as his predecessors.

[dckingsfan]

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Might be cause for the first impeachment if the R congress ever wanted him gone...

[Wizardspride]

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[DCZards]

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Meh. Obama went on a rule issuing spree while he was in office. He bypassed congress and now some of them are getting pushed back - this is a big yawn for me. His administration is the king of new rules - hundreds of thousands of pages of them.

If you are in business - it is now impossible not to be outside the law. You simply can't know or comply with all the rules - I personally think that is a bad thing.

BTW, this is different from executive orders - Obama issued about the same as his predecessors.

Yeah, let's rollback all of Obama's environmental regs. Who the hell wants clean air and safe drinking water...other than those hysterical environmentalists.

[payitforward]

Pure hysteria? I don't think so.

The gay and lesbian community has every right to be concerned. Many of Trump's supporters, particularly those in the evangelical community, would like nothing more than to turn back the clock on gay rights and marriage equality. And given that Trump is a wild card who seems intent on pleasing his supporters, there's no telling what he might do. So I think it's smart for the gay and lesbian community--and its allies--to remain vigilant and mobilized.

Trump is pretty pro LGBT. I'm not worried about that.

Trump is pro Trump. He'll do whatever he thinks will make him look good. Why should the gay and lesbian community--or any other community--trust him?

On message boards, differences of opinion always get wider from response to response and on.

Iduveca's "Pure hysteria" is a significant overstatement. But he's right that there's a lot of good reasons to think this won't change.

At the same time, it's also true that a big piece of the Trump "core" is anti-lbgt rights, and that the world is an unpredictable place. "Vigilant & mobilized" doesn't seem an over-reaction to the situation.

Maybe the key point is that we're already seeing things come under attack that seemed more or less settled or even long traditions by now. To me at least, that's nervous-making, & it's good reason to be vigilant.

[payitforward]

I'm cheered by the nomination of Korsuch to the Supreme Court -- first Trump move so far that doesn't scare me. Not that I'd have favored him over some others, but he is regarded as a very good judge & legal thinker. He's not a politician. & he is extremely well qualified.

[dckingsfan]

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Meh. Obama went on a rule issuing spree while he was in office. He bypassed congress and now some of them are getting pushed back - this is a big yawn for me. His administration is the king of new rules - hundreds of thousands of pages of them.

If you are in business - it is now impossible not to be outside the law. You simply can't know or comply with all the rules - I personally think that is a bad thing.

BTW, this is different from executive orders - Obama issued about the same as his predecessors.

Yeah, let's rollback all of Obama's environmental regs. Who the hell wants clean air and safe drinking water...other than those hysterical environmentalists.

hehehe - The issue is still, when you have soooooooo many rules that it isn't possible to be in compliance, that is a bad thing. Obama had a lot of good ideas - but his rule making was out of control - this is just a reaction to that. Some of his good rules will get rolled back with lots of his bad rules.

[dckingsfan]

Okay, this is a bit of a rant -- my beef with the Trump immigration plan (or lack thereof). He has put a hiatis on immigration from certain countries without describing a coherent immigration plan to address the lack of skilled workers in the country. Okay, one could argue that Clinton, Bush and Obama did the same but still...

If you want to grow the economy, then we will need skilled labor to fill the positions that are currently impeding growth.

We have an impending demographic problem as our population ages. As the population ages, it lowers the percentage of the labor participation, you can see this by the following figure:



Couple that with less participation in the normally highly employed category:



And with men not giving a F :



And our failing schools - detailed before and you have a skilled labor shortage. A lack of skilled labor and capital investment (remember all that money overseas that we need for capital investment) and you have slowing rates of productivity:



Lower productivity leads to wage stagnation. Lower labor force participation leads to lower federal receipts and higher deficits.

[dckingsfan]

So, POTUS - what the hell is the plan?

[Wizardspride]

So, POTUS - what the hell is the plan?

"Trust me. I have a plan and it'll be great"-- Donald J Trump

[Ruzious]

For folks who think things are just fine for gay people and how dare they protest... the Comet Ping Pong restaurant in our home town continues to have outrageous proplems. https://www.washingtonblade.com/2017/01/19/anti-gay-protesters-picket-gay-owned-d-c-restaurant/

Watch on YouTube

[dckingsfan]

More reporters than protesters

Knuckleheads.

[nate33]

Milo & Spencer got what they asked for. Hate begets hate. Not saying the act of violence is right but if you decide your role in life is to antagonize others, best believe you shall reap what you sow.

Then the haters use that to retaliate and of we go... sigh.

You missed my point. I'm not advocating violence in response to the hate they spew. I'm saying a consequence of being a hate-monger is that karma will come back their way. What goes around comes around.

Milo especially is walking a dangerous line. Gaining fame by consistently insulting others will always have a negative chain reaction. It seems like he's on a chase to be a martyr for the alt right movement.

When has Milo ever supported or incited violence of any kind? Milo, of all people, is pretty phucking far from being a Nazi. He's a gay Jewish Libertarian who tirelessly advocates for free speech.

Many on the Left are condoning violence against "Nazi's" and then defining anybody they don't agree with as a Nazi. Do you not see the end result of this?

If you really believe that the tactics espoused by the Antifa left are going to be effective for the Left, for liberals or for Democrats, you're in for a huge letdown.

[Ruzious]

More reporters than protesters

Knuckleheads.

It's not funny. Knuckleheads is what you call harmless people who do silly things. It only takes one moron to come in there with a rifle and kill people. That's not a hysterical reaction - that's what happened at that same restaurant. And one extremely loud protester with a bunch of his lovely buddies - like in that video - makes it very uncomfortable for a large group of people.

[bsilver]

Okay, this is a bit of a rant -- my beef with the Trump immigration plan (or lack thereof). He has put a hiatis on immigration from certain countries without describing a coherent immigration plan to address the lack of skilled workers in the country. Okay, one could argue that Clinton, Bush and Obama did the same but still...

If you want to grow the economy, then we will need skilled labor to fill the positions that are currently impeding growth.

We have an impending demographic problem as our population ages. As the population ages, it lowers the percentage of the labor participation, you can see this by the following figure:



Couple that with less participation in the normally highly employed category:



And with men not giving a F :



And our failing schools - detailed before and you have a skilled labor shortage. A lack of skilled labor and capital investment (remember all that money overseas that we need for capital investment) and you have slowing rates of productivity:



Lower productivity leads to wage stagnation. Lower labor force participation leads to lower federal receipts and higher deficits.

Think we've heard this rant before
One of the continued points is that failing schools are a main cause of skilled labor shortages. I think there needs to be some proof behind this assertion.
This is anecdotal, but, last year I volunteered to tutor math in a Fairfax County high school, one of the top systems in the country. In a class for students at risk, about half wanted no help and didn't care if they failed. Can't say that the school was failing, but saw failing students and probable evidence of failing parents.
I think the problem has many causes, including:
Automation has reduced the need for low skill employees. Some students give up, thinking they don't have the aptitude for higher skilled jobs. And maybe they don't.
Lack of migration from poor areas. They are jobs, but many refuse to move from the South and Appalachia.
Emphasis on an academic education. Maybe more should be steered to a vocational track. However, it's not easy to tell students they can't cut it, and should focus elsewhere. Doesn't seem like the American way, but is common elsewhere.
Students don't see relationship between hard work and later payoff. Especially after witnessing the great recession.
And, not to sound Republican, but it's hard to find the balance between programs for the poor and not providing motivation for personal improvement.

I don't think gutting public schools, which Devos would like to do, will help address any of these issues.

[dckingsfan]

Hey bsilver, I have shown before how the schools are failing. Even more so when you look at $$ per pupil investment with a continuing fall in test scores. Add to that, kids don't have the skills to get jobs in the workplace. So, our curricula doesn't match need.

Is there anyway that you could equate our current education system as a success (other than a race to the bottom for all but a few)? How about proof on the other side - anecdotal would be your particular experience in a classroom

And I think you missed the point of the rant. There are many ways to address the situation. Improve and diversify the educational system and/or allow corporations to bring money in from abroad at a low tax rate to invest in infrastructure & training and/or allow high education immigration and/or all of the above.

My point is that we are an abject failure on all fronts now. We have no plan.

Do you see a plan?