Wilson Chandler wants out

[NuggetsWY]

I'd rather trade Gallinari and start Chandler at SF.

Good GOD I'm glad people around here aren't the ones running this team. SO many terrible opinions posted every day. Gallinari is by far the second most effective player on this team and he's one of the few actual positive +/- on/off court players we have. Jokic and Gallinari playing together has proved to be one of the best offensive teams in the NBA, and they ARE the reason that is the case. Nobody else.

Gallinari is shooting above 60% TS this season and is one of the most versatile players at his position. But ya, let's trade him so we can start Wilson Chandler who struggles to put up even average efficiency numbers and is somehow even worse on defense.

Do you guys even watch this team?

Umm, yeah, OK - clearly you are looking for the playoffs this year. I get it. Yes, Gallinari is our number one scorer and number one in minutes played and without a doubt, the Nuggets need him if they want to make the playoffs (or someone of his caliber). Chandler just might be that guy, I think he might be. He certainly plays more defense and rebounds better.

With that said, some of us couldn't care less about the playoffs this year. That's an easy first round sweep (or close to it, maybe one win). This isn't even about tanking for a draft pick. The Nuggets' pick isn't going to change much if they make the playoffs or don't (unless a major miracle happens and they win the lottery - unlikely). IMO trading Gallinari now is for a young prospect or a future pick (not 2017) because it seems most likely that Denver drafts one or two forwards in the 2017 draft and they are going to need playing time, along with Hernangomez (and maybe Cornelie). In 3-5 years, with proper development, Jokic & Murray & Harris should make a nice core of a serious contender - maybe earlier. But they need playing time, as will Mudiay & Beasley.

[Mac1958]

I'd rather trade Gallinari and start Chandler at SF.

Good GOD I'm glad people around here aren't the ones running this team. SO many terrible opinions posted every day. Gallinari is by far the second most effective player on this team and he's one of the few actual positive +/- on/off court players we have. Jokic and Gallinari playing together has proved to be one of the best offensive teams in the NBA, and they ARE the reason that is the case. Nobody else.

Gallinari is shooting above 60% TS this season and is one of the most versatile players at his position. But ya, let's trade him so we can start Wilson Chandler who struggles to put up even average efficiency numbers and is somehow even worse on defense.

Do you guys even watch this team?

Umm, yeah, OK - clearly you are looking for the playoffs this year. I get it. Yes, Gallinari is our number one scorer and number one in minutes played and without a doubt, the Nuggets need him if they want to make the playoffs (or someone of his caliber). Chandler just might be that guy, I think he might be. He certainly plays more defense and rebounds better.

With that said, some of us couldn't care less about the playoffs this year. That's an easy first round sweep (or close to it, maybe one win). This isn't even about tanking for a draft pick. The Nuggets' pick isn't going to change much if they make the playoffs or don't (unless a major miracle happens and they win the lottery - unlikely). IMO trading Gallinari now is for a young prospect or a future pick (not 2017) because it seems most likely that Denver drafts one or two forwards in the 2017 draft and they are going to need playing time, along with Hernangomez (and maybe Cornelie). In 3-5 years, with proper development, Jokic & Murray & Harris should make a nice core of a serious contender - maybe earlier. But they need playing time, as will Mudiay & Beasley.

Yep. And the fact that he's our "best player" (not really sure of that) doesn't mean that he's an elite player. He's at the top of a group of pretty good players. And that's just not how championships are won, or how teams make it deep into the playoffs.

What concerns me about him is that his new contract would be based on the notion that he's our "best player". He's never going to be elite, and I think any team with serious aspirations needs at least two of them at this point. $8 million a year? Fine. $18 million, $25 million? No.

I'd like to trade three or four pretty good players for at least one or two elite players to pair with Jokic and Murray.

[NuggetsWY]

Umm, yeah, OK - clearly you are looking for the playoffs this year. I get it. Yes, Gallinari is our number one scorer and number one in minutes played and without a doubt, the Nuggets need him if they want to make the playoffs (or someone of his caliber). Chandler just might be that guy, I think he might be. He certainly plays more defense and rebounds better.

With that said, some of us couldn't care less about the playoffs this year. That's an easy first round sweep (or close to it, maybe one win). This isn't even about tanking for a draft pick. The Nuggets' pick isn't going to change much if they make the playoffs or don't (unless a major miracle happens and they win the lottery - unlikely). IMO trading Gallinari now is for a young prospect or a future pick (not 2017) because it seems most likely that Denver drafts one or two forwards in the 2017 draft and they are going to need playing time, along with Hernangomez (and maybe Cornelie). In 3-5 years, with proper development, Jokic & Murray & Harris should make a nice core of a serious contender - maybe earlier. But they need playing time, as will Mudiay & Beasley.

Yep. And the fact that he's our "best player" (not really sure of that) doesn't mean that he's an elite player. He's at the top of a group of pretty good players. And that's just not how championships are won, or how teams make it deep into the playoffs.

What concerns me about him is that his new contract would be based on the notion that he's our "best player". He's never going to be elite, and I think any team with serious aspirations needs at least two of them at this point. $8 million a year? Fine. $18 million, $25 million? No.

I'd like to trade three or four pretty good players for at least one elite player to pair with Jokic and Murray.[/quote]
OK, this thread was about Chandler but I'll comment once more about Gallinari. If I had my druthers, the Nuggets would trade Faried & Gallinari & Chandler & Barton & Nelson to gather young players with high potential and/or draft picks. I might even throw Arthur into that mix. If Denver wants veterans to teach/lead our young players, then let's do what Utah did and sign players like Joe Johnson & Boris Diaw (and Mike Miller). Then let them play 10-15 mpg and they'll be ready for more in case of injury to a starter. (Not use them like we do with Miller now, who barely plays).

As good as Gallinari, Faried, Chandler might be; they are probably not starters on a contending team and they are basically in their peak years right now. Nelson could stay on the team if coach would use him much less. He's not really "bad", but the problem is, he's not really great either. My biggest gripe about Nelson is coach is giving him minutes that should go to Murray and Mudiay.

So, I think we are actually in agreement - we just said things a little differently. Or am I misunderstanding things still?

[Mac1958]

As good as Gallinari, Faried, Chandler might be; they are probably not starters on a contending team and they are basically in their peak years right now. Nelson could stay on the team if coach would use him much less. He's not really "bad", but the problem is, he's not really great either. My biggest gripe about Nelson is coach is giving him minutes that should go to Murray and Mudiay.

So, I think we are actually in agreement - we just said things a little differently. Or am I misunderstanding things still?

Yeah, we're in agreement. While the roster is interesting, a top-end upgrade is needed, even if that means losing some depth.

[The Rebel]

I'd rather trade Gallinari and start Chandler at SF.

Good GOD I'm glad people around here aren't the ones running this team. SO many terrible opinions posted every day. Gallinari is by far the second most effective player on this team and he's one of the few actual positive +/- on/off court players we have. Jokic and Gallinari playing together has proved to be one of the best offensive teams in the NBA, and they ARE the reason that is the case. Nobody else.

Gallinari is shooting above 60% TS this season and is one of the most versatile players at his position. But ya, let's trade him so we can start Wilson Chandler who struggles to put up even average efficiency numbers and is somehow even worse on defense.

Do you guys even watch this team?

Our best player is 21 years old, our 2nd best prospect is 19 years old, last I checked outside of Chandler, Faried, and Gallinari the best players on the roster are all 22 or younger.

So what is your goal? Is it to make the playoffs this year and cap out the team, or is it to try to build to a championship team in the next few years.

Chandler at 29 years old, Faried at 27 years old, and Gallo at 28 are all too old for this core by the time we figure out what we have with the young guys, and they are ready to really compete. Add in the injury history of Gallo and Chandler and it is stupid to give them their next contracts. All 3 are great role players when put in the correct role, and all 3 deserve the chance to play on a playoff team, but not a single one of them is going to be able to be the same player they are today when this team should be ready to contend. Chandler and Gallo both should be traded this year, with more emphasis on gallo due to his contract situation, and Faried and if he is still here than Chandler as well needs to be traded this summer or next season.

Gallo is likely to command a contract of $22-25 million per year, added to the draft pick cap holds, that will leave the Nuggets about $12 million to fill out the roster. Is this team a $12 million per year player away from being a contender even a year from now? Is this team a contender 2 years from now with a $12 million per and a MLE type deal?

This team should not be getting themselves capped out this summer unless they fill the holes on the roster with the perfect fits, the problem is that guys like Hernan-Gomez, Beasley, and even Murray are not getting enough minutes to truly see where the long term holes are on this team.

Go look at the stupid moves that teams like the Pacers, Heat, Hawks, Trailblazers, Bulls, Pistons, Kings, and Bucks are all doing. Signing short term solutions that may or may not work, and than a year or two later still trying to fill the holes around their top guys while they have no cap space and limited assets for trades. some of us prefer better than that.

[TunaFish]

I see Chandler's point. How do the Nuggets find minutes for 3 quality veteran small forwards (Chandler, Gallo and Barton)? Add in Hernangomez who seems to have small forward skills and you have to wonder why the FO thought that this was going to go over well.

I still think that this was more about the acquisition of assets to make a move and rebalance the roster later. Yet, so far there is no such move. Chandler probably sees the same thing and either wants to start or move to a team that will start him. Nurkic has the same issues but at least Chandler has played well enough to be entitled to a starting position. Of course, Gallo and Barton have the same claim.

TC needs to make a move and probably needed to make a move last off season.

[The Rebel]

I see Chandler's point. How do the Nuggets find minutes for 3 quality veteran small forwards (Chandler, Gallo and Barton)? Add in Hernangomez who seems to have small forward skills and you have to wonder why the FO thought that this was going to go over well.

I still think that this was more about the acquisition of assets to make a move and rebalance the roster later. Yet, so far there is no such move. Chandler probably sees the same thing and either wants to start or move to a team that will start him. Nurkic has the same issues but at least Chandler has played well enough to be entitled to a starting position. Of course, Gallo and Barton have the same claim.

TC needs to make a move and probably needed to make a move last off season.

Barton is not a SF, he is a SG. With Nelson getting minutes as he gets, and Malone insisting on small ball so much with either Gallo or Chandler at the 4, Barton is being pushed into a role that does not suit him as much. He is very good at SG, when he is bigger and/or stronger than most of the guys trying to guard him, at small forward he loses that advantage.

If Malone did not insist on going small so often than guys like Nelson and Arthur would get less minutes, but guys like Nurkic, Hernan-Gomez, and Jokic would all be getting more minutes. The biggest issue to me isn't the depth, it is that guys know always playing small is hurting the team as a whole, it physically takes a toll on guys like Chandler, Gallo, and Arthur who are stepping up in size from what they have always played, and guys get pissed off. If you take the time to think how the roster is built it looks like the front office was planning something like

Mudiay (22 mpg)/ Nelson (20)/ Murray (6)
Harris (25)/ Barton (15)/ Murray (8)/ Beasley (Injury/garbage)
Gallo (30)/ Chandler (14)/Barton (4)/ Hernan-Gomez (injury/garbage)
Faried (20)/ Chandler (15)/ Arthur (13)/ Hernan-Gomez (injury/ Garbage)
Nurkic/Jokic (splitting 43 mpg)/ Faried (5)

I can see the reasoning for the roster construction like that, but Malone refuses to run a traditional lineup for enough minutes to break it down like that. As the young guys grow than guys can be traded, and more future potential can be brought in.

The other issue is that now guys are starting to whine.

Reportedly the Nuggets are very very high on Hernan-Gomez, like high enough to be an all star type of player in the future high. He must be one hell of a practice player, as his few minutes he has gotten have looked good but have no made me say that he is a future all star as of yet. Gallo, Faried, and Chandler all saw what happened to Mozgov, Foye, Hickson, and even back a few years ago to Nene. Chandler is the 1st one with his job at risk right now, Faried started off the season without his job due to the Jokic/ Nurkic experiment that Malone screwed up, and Gallo has to be thinking his days are numbered as well.

Both Chandler and Gallo are good enough to be the 3rd starter on a team with 2 all stars and they can compete for a great team, either one of them could start today for the Celtics, Rockets, Hawks, Clippers, or Raptors and give them a huge push up the rankings. Faried can easily be the 4th guy on a very good team. But none of them are going to be stars, and if you watch the way Hernan-Gomez is being played, he can slide into Chandler's backup role pretty easily. Which means that Chandler either has to be a starter and force one of Gallo or Faried to the bench, or he is likely going to be traded at this deadline. That is the history of the Nuggets under Josh, and while it sucks on a personal level, every guy that has been traded has ended up in a pretty good situation so it is not like they are being screwed especially if they are about to lose their position in the lineup.

[NuggetsWY]

Totally agree with Rebel here. Even in this era of small ball, most teams only play small ball for short periods of time. Of course there are exceptions but those teams typically have specially gifted players (see Golden State for one example). Playing out of position, against a much heavier player can be exhausting as they bang and push on you. They can more easily back you down in the low post where refs let them back right over you. Playing against the heavier players can also lead to injuries simply because there is even more banging as they try to take advantage of the mis-match. Consider Nurkic; no one backs over him. Also, playing out of position often means the opposing player is taller. If that player has a decent shot of any sort, that height makes it easier to get a shot off.

Barton is not a SF. He weighs around 175 lbs. Most SFs tend to be around 210-235 lbs.

Chandler is not a PF. Neither is Gallinari. They are both around 225. PFs tend to be much heavier and they bang much harder than SFs, even in the modern NBA.

Faried is not a center. He weighs around 225 lbs. Neither is Arthur. He weighs around 235 lbs. Most NBA teams want centers that weigh 250 lbs or more.

Some say Hernangomez is too light for PF at 230 lbs. Yet Malone likes 225 lb Chandler or Gallinari at PF.
Some say Hernangomez is too slow for SF, perhaps against some players that is true. But matchups are always a question of result and Hernangomez is about the same weight as most SFs and his hustle might make the difference over speed/quickness.

Last year, Malone showed a propensity to use a 3 guard lineup of Mudiay (6'5"), Nelson (6'0"), Foye (6'4") (later Augustin at 6'0"). Three players that were too short to cover SFs, especially when Augustin replaced Foye. That was a ridiculous lineup. Yes, small ball can work, but carrying it to an extreme is ridiculous.

Since this thread is supposed to be about Chandler, I'll conclude this lengthy post by saying that Chandler IS a SF that can score against shorter people and against slower people. But he prefers to play his offense from outside with occasional drives. Allowed to play like that, he is fairly effective. On defense, Chandler is a SF that can switch onto all but the quickest PGs and the biggest centers; but he is not a low-post banger IMO.

[Bill Pidto]

I'd love him back on the Knicks. Would you trade Chandler and Faried for Kevin Love in a 3 way trade with NY/CLE ?

[skywalker33]

I'd love him back on the Knicks. Would you trade Chandler and Faried for Kevin Love in a 3 way trade with NY/CLE ?

I'd do that, but you're dreaming if you think it'll happen.

[Bill Pidto]

I'd love him back on the Knicks. Would you trade Chandler and Faried for Kevin Love in a 3 way trade with NY/CLE ?

I'd do that, but you're dreaming if you think it'll happen.

I would pull in a 4th team to take Faried and give the Knicks an expiring deal and a 1st rounder. Maybe you guys can give nurkic to the cavs. Or a late first or 2nd round pick if that's too much.

Cavs get Melo and an extra piece to sweeten it just a bit. A team like the Celtics can get Faried for Amir and one of those picks they have laying around. Knicks get Chandler back and an expiring, plus a 1st. Denver gets Love.

[Tecmo]

I'd be shocked if we trade Chandler since Gallo is going through his yearly missed game time stemming from injury.

[NuggetsWY]

I'd love him back on the Knicks. Would you trade Chandler and Faried for Kevin Love in a 3 way trade with NY/CLE ?

I'd do that, but you're dreaming if you think it'll happen.

I would pull in a 4th team to take Faried and give the Knicks an expiring deal and a 1st rounder. Maybe you guys can give nurkic to the cavs. Or a late first or 2nd round pick if that's too much.

Cavs get Melo and an extra piece to sweeten it just a bit. A team like the Celtics can get Faried for Amir and one of those picks they have laying around. Knicks get Chandler back and an expiring, plus a 1st. Denver gets Love.

I still like it for Denver, sorta'. Love is outside of our target of youth. But he's an outstanding example of play and team-play. Plus he's a good center and/or PF. But I'm sceptical that Cleveland would trade him. I'm fearful of what NY might throw in the mix and another team? Getting too complicated with all the teams wanting to hold onto picks for this "great draft". But yeah, I would trade Chandler & Faried for Love and even throw in Nurkic if someone wants him. He's better than a late first. I would not throw in a first unless it was 2020. A second could be added however, maybe even two.

[skywalker33]

I'd love him back on the Knicks. Would you trade Chandler and Faried for Kevin Love in a 3 way trade with NY/CLE ?

I'd do that, but you're dreaming if you think it'll happen.

I would pull in a 4th team to take Faried and give the Knicks an expiring deal and a 1st rounder. Maybe you guys can give nurkic to the cavs. Or a late first or 2nd round pick if that's too much.

Cavs get Melo and an extra piece to sweeten it just a bit. A team like the Celtics can get Faried for Amir and one of those picks they have laying around. Knicks get Chandler back and an expiring, plus a 1st. Denver gets Love.

Noticed you seem to continue to include OUR assets, yet only Melo from the Knicks, just a casual observation.

Anyway, we could do EITHER Nurkic (preferable) OR a draft pick (or 2nds would even be better) but we're not just going to facilitate by giving all our assets so Melo can go play with LBJ, he really didn't do us any favors ya know.