The Trade Thread II

[PrimeThyme]

This team just needs to make a **** trade fast. The games are unwatchable, the Vets are unwatchable, this franchise needs to trade for youth and start from the ground up. We're a dumpster fire right now. Even the diehard core fans are losing all interest.

A good trade won't happen fast. It will be closer to the deadline when teams get more desperate.

That's fair, but I feel like there's teams like Toronto right now that might already be getting really desperate. We might be able to squeeze more value out of a deal now with them struggling like they are.

[magicfan4life88]

yea I used to the guy that can watch any magic game that's on tv, I cant do it anymore, I just cant, I get way too angry, lol

[BlueMagician]

yea I used to the guy that can watch any magic game that's on tv, I cant do it anymore, I just cant, I get way too angry, lol

i know exactly how you feel, man. I watched nearly every Magic game for the last 3-4 years, either Live or on DvR, but this year I just can't do it. I'll tune in to see us blow a large 4th Quarter lead every once in awhile, but this is the worst team I have watched from an entertainment standpoint, probably ever. We need someone to build around, some younger star on a lengthy contract. We don't have anyone right now that could be THAT guy. I like AG00, but I just don't see that in him. I would trade whatever it took to land a guy like Butler or Cousins. What we all have to prepare ourselves for, is if we make a trade for a guy like that this year, it is going to hurt bad. You can kiss AG and the top 5 pick goodbye and probably one of the big guys. I just don't see a way we will be able to get what we need and still keep those assets.

[magicfan4life88]

yea I used to the guy that can watch any magic game that's on tv, I cant do it anymore, I just cant, I get way too angry, lol

i know exactly how you feel, man. I watched nearly every Magic game for the last 3-4 years, either Live or on DvR, but this year I just can't do it. I'll tune in to see us blow a large 4th Quarter lead every once in awhile, but this is the worst team I have watched from an entertainment standpoint, probably ever. We need someone to build around, some younger star on a lengthy contract. We don't have anyone right now that could be THAT guy. I like AG00, but I just don't see that in him. I would trade whatever it took to land a guy like Butler or Cousins. What we all have to prepare ourselves for, is if we make a trade for a guy like that this year, it is going to hurt bad. You can kiss AG and the top 5 pick goodbye and probably one of the big guys. I just don't see a way we will be able to get what we need and still keep those assets.

yea its crazy the hole this franchise needs to dig itself out of, I supported move after move after move with Rob, but I don't feel like I can support him anymore, no longer have faith in that guy

[anothermagicfan]

I really don't get why everyone wants Jimmy butler. He's pretty good right now but it's not like we're ready to start competing right now. By the time our younger guys and this upcoming draft pick are ready to be something Butler would be on the wrong side of 30. As it stands evans numbers are a lot better than Jimmy butlers numbers at 24 years old with less playing time. Evan has been our most consistent scorer and our only real threat from 3 point range. And his numbers continue to improve. Did ANYONE else notice that this horrible last 20 or so games coincides with evan being injured. Evan is way under appreciated by a lot on this board. His trajectory is on the same path as the other guys most seem to think we should be building around. Elf and gordon. I just don't think Butler would help us

[OrlandoDream]

I really don't get why everyone wants Jimmy butler. He's pretty good right now but it's not like we're ready to start competing right now. By the time our younger guys and this upcoming draft pick are ready to be something Butler would be on the wrong side of 30. As it stands evans numbers are a lot better than Jimmy butlers numbers at 24 years old with less playing time. Evan has been our most consistent scorer and our only real threat from 3 point range. And his numbers continue to improve. Did ANYONE else notice that this horrible last 20 or so games coincides with evan being injured. Evan is way under appreciated by a lot on this board. His trajectory is on the same path as the other guys most seem to think we should be building around. Elf and gordon. I just don't think Butler would help us

Evan Fournier has peaked. The player he is today is the player he will be for the rest of his career. The same can be said with Vuc. The only hope for this franchise is the continued development and improvement of Elfrid and AG and Mario if he ever decides to get his head straight. That and whoever we pick this year. Vuc and Fournier are who they are. Im not expecting any drastic improvements from them going forward.

[anothermagicfan]

How about this trade. I'm sure picks would be involved. Celtics and raptors are both in a position to try and capitalize. Neither is good enough to beat Cleveland. They've both been rumored to have interest in a magic big. Philly has got a lot of talented bigs too. They're building around embid and simmons. I think Noel is a future role player. Okafor is going to be way to good to be second fiddle to embid. If Boston and Toronto would pull the trigger this trade would give Philly a couple young guys to build around embid and simmons. I don't know if Ross and smart would be enough for philly. Maybe Mario would be enough to convince them? Your thoughts? http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hhtrw2r

I don't want Okafor. I don't see any sense in paying all that rookie-scale money to a guy that I was convinced would be a bust when he was still at Duke. It's hard to defend when you don't want to touch anyone. I've said it before, but I will say it again... I would like to nab Richaun Holmes from Philly. The logjam in their frontcourt hasn't afforded him many minutes, but he has been productive when he has played. He is an athletic and active young big that has a bit of skill as well. Unlike Noel, he isn't due a massive pay increase in the summer.

I get that Okafor isn't without his flaws but he did put up 17.5 ppg as a 20 yo rookie. None of his numbers are far off of vucevic best couple years. Maybe he's not the best player out there but I think if we could pull off that deal Okafor with elf, ag, evan, and this year's first round pick could give us a chance to build around a good group that's still young and could grow together. I know that's kind of beating the same old drum but that's going to happen until we find that group and start winning.

[Mc-o]

I really don't get why everyone wants Jimmy butler. He's pretty good right now but it's not like we're ready to start competing right now. By the time our younger guys and this upcoming draft pick are ready to be something Butler would be on the wrong side of 30. As it stands evans numbers are a lot better than Jimmy butlers numbers at 24 years old with less playing time. Evan has been our most consistent scorer and our only real threat from 3 point range. And his numbers continue to improve. Did ANYONE else notice that this horrible last 20 or so games coincides with evan being injured. Evan is way under appreciated by a lot on this board. His trajectory is on the same path as the other guys most seem to think we should be building around. Elf and gordon. I just don't think Butler would help us

Evan Fournier has peaked. The player he is today is the player he will be for the rest of his career. The same can be said with Vuc. The only hope for this franchise is the continued development and improvement of Elfrid and AG and Mario if he ever decides to get his head straight. That and whoever we pick this year. Vuc and Fournier are who they are. Im not expecting any drastic improvements from them going forward.

ag and ep have been getting significant minutes on this team and both have just made small improvements but both have yet to break out. Ep has shown more flashes of good play and ability to take over a game his issue is consistency. Problem with AG is that no one seems to know what position he is best at and we have yet to see him put in a position to play to his str8nth, so up until this point AG has shown that he can be a starter in this league in the rt situation but out side of that he hasn't shown he can be an allstar. I hope AG proves me wrong next year .

[OrlandoDream]

I really don't get why everyone wants Jimmy butler. He's pretty good right now but it's not like we're ready to start competing right now. By the time our younger guys and this upcoming draft pick are ready to be something Butler would be on the wrong side of 30. As it stands evans numbers are a lot better than Jimmy butlers numbers at 24 years old with less playing time. Evan has been our most consistent scorer and our only real threat from 3 point range. And his numbers continue to improve. Did ANYONE else notice that this horrible last 20 or so games coincides with evan being injured. Evan is way under appreciated by a lot on this board. His trajectory is on the same path as the other guys most seem to think we should be building around. Elf and gordon. I just don't think Butler would help us

Evan Fournier has peaked. The player he is today is the player he will be for the rest of his career. The same can be said with Vuc. The only hope for this franchise is the continued development and improvement of Elfrid and AG and Mario if he ever decides to get his head straight. That and whoever we pick this year. Vuc and Fournier are who they are. Im not expecting any drastic improvements from them going forward.

ag and ep have been getting significant minutes on this team and both have just made small improvements but both have yet to break out. Ep has shown more flashes of good play and ability to take over a game his issue is consistency. Problem with AG is that no one seems to know what position he is best at and we have yet to see him put in a position to play to his str8nth, so up until this point AG has shown that he can be a starter in this league in the rt situation but out side of that he hasn't shown he can be an allstar. I hope AG proves me wrong next year .

He has been playing out of position all year bc of Ibaka acquisition. It was made evident like 20-30 games ago that he needs to go back to the 4. He doesn't have the handles or the shot to be a SF on a winning team. At best he has been a defensive SF. He has held some of the best players under their % all season. Problem with that is that if your gonna be a Bure Bowen, Tony Allen player, the rest of your team needs to be offensive juggernauts....which we dont have.

I cant wait until the deadline when we pack Ibaka and Green and throw AG back at the 4. We finally get to see him cut more and abuse other PF on offense. Our D has been **** all year so were not giving up much. Im just hoping the young guys have freedom out there to grow these last 30 games once Vogel/RH realize that we are out of the PO hunt. We will suck but the team will be fun to watch once again. No more Green and Watson playing 30+.

[Bensational]

The moment this team moves AG back to the 4 is the moment everyone will start turning on him and want to trade him. He'll basically be Faried, and then everyone will be saying "oh great, we wasted a number 4 pick on Kenneth Faried? Trade him for a PF who can shoot the 3 and block shots so they fit better with Vuc".

[anothermagicfan]

Evan Fournier has peaked. The player he is today is the player he will be for the rest of his career. The same can be said with Vuc. The only hope for this franchise is the continued development and improvement of Elfrid and AG and Mario if he ever decides to get his head straight. That and whoever we pick this year. Vuc and Fournier are who they are. Im not expecting any drastic improvements from them going forward.

ag and ep have been getting significant minutes on this team and both have just made small improvements but both have yet to break out. Ep has shown more flashes of good play and ability to take over a game his issue is consistency. Problem with AG is that no one seems to know what position he is best at and we have yet to see him put in a position to play to his str8nth, so up until this point AG has shown that he can be a starter in this league in the rt situation but out side of that he hasn't shown he can be an allstar. I hope AG proves me wrong next year .

He has been playing out of position all year bc of Ibaka acquisition. It was made evident like 20-30 games ago that he needs to go back to the 4. He doesn't have the handles or the shot to be a SF on a winning team. At best he has been a defensive SF. He has held some of the best players under their % all season. Problem with that is that if your gonna be a Bure Bowen, Tony Allen player, the rest of your team needs to be offensive juggernauts....which we dont have.

I cant wait until the deadline when we pack Ibaka and Green and throw AG back at the 4. We finally get to see him cut more and abuse other PF on offense. Our D has been **** all year so were not giving up much. Im just hoping the young guys have freedom out there to grow these last 30 games once Vogel/RH realize that we are out of the PO hunt. We will suck but the team will be fun to watch once again. No more Green and Watson playing 30+.

Ag can play wherever the hell he wants to. His lateral quickness is a really big help for us with him guarding guys on the perimiter. He's fine as a 3 or a 4. I see him being one of those pain in the butt match ups for teams in the future. I think he'll have no problem pulling pf away from the paint and schooling them off the dribble or overpowering sf and posting them up. And then there's his transition game. It really won't matter what position he plays.

And greens at 23.3 mpg and watsons at 16.2 mpg. I'm not sure if anyone on orlando is playing 30+

[MagicFan101]

You wanna win? Trade for Tom Brady because that is all this flipping dude does. WTF!!??

[anothermagicfan]

I really don't get why everyone wants Jimmy butler. He's pretty good right now but it's not like we're ready to start competing right now. By the time our younger guys and this upcoming draft pick are ready to be something Butler would be on the wrong side of 30. As it stands evans numbers are a lot better than Jimmy butlers numbers at 24 years old with less playing time. Evan has been our most consistent scorer and our only real threat from 3 point range. And his numbers continue to improve. Did ANYONE else notice that this horrible last 20 or so games coincides with evan being injured. Evan is way under appreciated by a lot on this board. His trajectory is on the same path as the other guys most seem to think we should be building around. Elf and gordon. I just don't think Butler would help us

Evan Fournier has peaked. The player he is today is the player he will be for the rest of his career. The same can be said with Vuc. The only hope for this franchise is the continued development and improvement of Elfrid and AG and Mario if he ever decides to get his head straight. That and whoever we pick this year. Vuc and Fournier are who they are. Im not expecting any drastic improvements from them going forward.

Evans 24. He's peaked. Oh I guess it's possible but I doubt it. Listen I dont see evan as a future allstar. But I think he's a really good smart ball player. I don't think anyone is asking him to score 25 a game. He'll be a perfect contributor to this team once we have a couple go to guys. I mean seriously would you rather have afflalo back?

[anothermagicfan]

You wanna win? Trade for Tom Brady because that is all this flipping dude does. WTF!!??

They've only been caught cheating a couple times. Oh I've lived my entire life in new england. But I'd rather be an honest loser. Good thing I love the magic!

[Mc-o]

Evan Fournier has peaked. The player he is today is the player he will be for the rest of his career. The same can be said with Vuc. The only hope for this franchise is the continued development and improvement of Elfrid and AG and Mario if he ever decides to get his head straight. That and whoever we pick this year. Vuc and Fournier are who they are. Im not expecting any drastic improvements from them going forward.

ag and ep have been getting significant minutes on this team and both have just made small improvements but both have yet to break out. Ep has shown more flashes of good play and ability to take over a game his issue is consistency. Problem with AG is that no one seems to know what position he is best at and we have yet to see him put in a position to play to his str8nth, so up until this point AG has shown that he can be a starter in this league in the rt situation but out side of that he hasn't shown he can be an allstar. I hope AG proves me wrong next year .

He has been playing out of position all year bc of Ibaka acquisition. It was made evident like 20-30 games ago that he needs to go back to the 4. He doesn't have the handles or the shot to be a SF on a winning team. At best he has been a defensive SF. He has held some of the best players under their % all season. Problem with that is that if your gonna be a Bure Bowen, Tony Allen player, the rest of your team needs to be offensive juggernauts....which we dont have.

I cant wait until the deadline when we pack Ibaka and Green and throw AG back at the 4. We finally get to see him cut more and abuse other PF on offense. Our D has been **** all year so were not giving up much. Im just hoping the young guys have freedom out there to grow these last 30 games once Vogel/RH realize that we are out of the PO hunt. We will suck but the team will be fun to watch once again. No more Green and Watson playing 30+.

Hey you may be rt about being out of position, im just not sold that vogel is going to let him play the 4 this year. also we are all hoping that his struggles are from being out of position but none of us know for sure.

[Mc-o]

ag and ep have been getting significant minutes on this team and both have just made small improvements but both have yet to break out. Ep has shown more flashes of good play and ability to take over a game his issue is consistency. Problem with AG is that no one seems to know what position he is best at and we have yet to see him put in a position to play to his str8nth, so up until this point AG has shown that he can be a starter in this league in the rt situation but out side of that he hasn't shown he can be an allstar. I hope AG proves me wrong next year .

He has been playing out of position all year bc of Ibaka acquisition. It was made evident like 20-30 games ago that he needs to go back to the 4. He doesn't have the handles or the shot to be a SF on a winning team. At best he has been a defensive SF. He has held some of the best players under their % all season. Problem with that is that if your gonna be a Bure Bowen, Tony Allen player, the rest of your team needs to be offensive juggernauts....which we dont have.

I cant wait until the deadline when we pack Ibaka and Green and throw AG back at the 4. We finally get to see him cut more and abuse other PF on offense. Our D has been **** all year so were not giving up much. Im just hoping the young guys have freedom out there to grow these last 30 games once Vogel/RH realize that we are out of the PO hunt. We will suck but the team will be fun to watch once again. No more Green and Watson playing 30+.

Ag can play wherever the hell he wants to. His lateral quickness is a really big help for us with him guarding guys on the perimiter. He's fine as a 3 or a 4. I see him being one of those pain in the butt match ups for teams in the future. I think he'll have no problem pulling pf away from the paint and schooling them off the dribble or overpowering sf and posting them up. And then there's his transition game. It really won't matter what position he plays.

And greens at 23.3 mpg and watsons at 16.2 mpg. I'm not sure if anyone on orlando is playing 30+

Ag shows he can play defense at the 3 or 4 but he still has no reliable offense except for being a clean up guy. He looks like he may be a defensive specialist like Tony allen .

[pepe1991]

trade deadline is close. Will Magic be able to do anything? I mean there is chance that this is final roster for this season and Ibaka can, and probably will walk out for nothing.

[yoyojw17]

I don't think that there is any problem with ag starting at the 3. Yes it would be amazing that he can hit the 3 ball more consistently.... but I would like to see him as a jump shooter last more than anything. cut to the basket ....make your self available. use your athleticism and size at the position to your advantage..... anddddddddddd if need be take the jumper when available. Attack the rim first.... get to the line...with ibaka out at the line as well CRASH THE BOARDS.... and lastly take a jump shot if available. Would be great if he even refined his post game as well ... probably much more doable than his shot. And let the shot confidence build from there.

[pepe1991]

I don't think that there is any problem with ag starting at the 3. Yes it would be amazing that he can hit the 3 ball more consistently.... but I would like to see him as a jump shooter last more than anything. cut to the basket ....make your self available. use your athleticism and size at the position to your advantage..... anddddddddddd if need be take the jumper when available. Attack the rim first.... get to the line...with ibaka out at the line as well CRASH THE BOARDS.... and lastly take a jump shot if available. Would be great if he even refined his post game as well ... probably much more doable than his shot. And let the shot confidence build from there.

I don't think that most people here understand fundamentals of basketball.
Most of time you can't attack and break man 1 on 1 if defender doesn't respect your jump shot. When you are bad shooter defender is not that close to you, so when you attack him offf dribble he has enough tme and space between you and him to react, short your angle in a cut and stop penetration with his body.

IF you are good shooter, however, defender must respect your jumper, that means he will try to stay close to you and he will contest shots and jump on your pumpfakes, so ,when you attack him off drible ,because he stays close to you, with your first step you can create enough of adventage to break him 1 on1 and attack the rim.

So, it doesn't matter is Gordon athletic or he is not, if defender never contests his shots and stays in defensive position ( has defensive posture that you learn at basketball camps at age of 7 ) he will never be able to attack the rim because he will never be able to break defender 1 on 1 and go pass him.

When you look at highlights of his best games this year you can see that that type of games are not sustinable offense. When he gets himself going he hits stepback 3s and contested fadeaway twos. Even superstars can't make that shots consistant enough to make that part of their offense. So , for defense, every shot taken outside paint by Gordon is good shot.

When you put him at PF he can use as adventage his size and hoops to get garbage points like putbacks and attack from pick&roll ,everything he can't do at SF because at SF you spent most of the time on 3 point line where he is not treat at all

[Skybox]

I don't think that there is any problem with ag starting at the 3. Yes it would be amazing that he can hit the 3 ball more consistently.... but I would like to see him as a jump shooter last more than anything. cut to the basket ....make your self available. use your athleticism and size at the position to your advantage..... anddddddddddd if need be take the jumper when available. Attack the rim first.... get to the line...with ibaka out at the line as well CRASH THE BOARDS.... and lastly take a jump shot if available. Would be great if he even refined his post game as well ... probably much more doable than his shot. And let the shot confidence build from there.

Agree. With Ibaka out on the perimeter on offense (shooting really well)...can't they effectively switch roles offensively and defensively? Can't a stretch 4 like Serge play across from a rim crashing SF? Then on D, AG continues to carry the load on the toughest wing while Serge protects the rim? I just can't stand seeing AG spotting up at the 3 point line. I thought today's NBA was more "position less"?