Political Roundtable Part XII

[bealwithit]

It's fine to agree with Trump on the premise that America has done terrible things abroad and killed innocent people before. That's something the left has always beat the drum on with the criticism of American exceptionalism and innocence. I also don't believe Trump is smart enough to actually have specific historical examples in mind to point to when he made this comment besides going into Iraq and war with the Middle East in general. He is, as usual, talking out of his ass. But just like the candidates of this past election, putting the U.S. on the same level of Russia/Putin is a false equivalency. We don't kill political opponents or critics of our government. If we did, Maggie Haberman and Glenn Thrush wouldn't be writing in the NYT anymore, they'd be dead.

It would be ignorant to not mark this down as yet another suspicious and bizarre stalwart defense of Putin by Trump.

[Induveca]

Trump in typical blunt fashion made a statement pretty much any Latin American would agree with, the US is a warmongering country, and we're droning and assassinating leaders all around the Middle East. Hiding it behind "automated" drones doesn't make it much different.

Take a look at the assassinations and interventions by the US resulting in mass casualties in Latin America:

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/analysis/10-of-the-Most-Lethal-CIA-Interventions-in-Latin-America-20160608-0031.html

These resonate with me the most, the US even occupied the Dominican Republic in the early 60s. It's pretty clear to the entire 3rd world not to cross the US or you'll at bear be crawling with CIA/DEA, or at worst invaded.

The US is actively involved in an all out propaganda and interventionist war in Ecuador currently.

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/CIA-in-Ecuador-20160610-0025.html#

So yeah I'd back Trump on his comment. Cultural perception differs in US and Russia but we're both thugs against 3rd world nations which can be pushed around for self gain.

I back Trump on his comment as well. Many of us in the progressive--and African American--community have long been critical of this country's role in oppressing and/or killing citizens and leaders in other parts of the world.

My point was (and is) that, while a handful of Repubs criticized Trump's comments, most have been silent. Contrast that to how the Republican Party and conservatives would have reacted if Obama (a black man) had made those same comments. And please don't tell me that Obama's race wouldn't have been a factor. This is still Amerikkka after all.

I don't disagree at all. I guess I'm *attempting* to look forward.

Very happy to hear we can agree on something though, truly! We do share similar backgrounds, in many ways.

[Induveca]

We don't kill political opponents or critics of our government.

Really?

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html

Reminds me of this scene:

Watch on YouTube

[bealwithit]

We don't kill political opponents or critics of our government.

Really?

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html

Oh, I know what the CIA has done. Doubt Trump does. Though I guess who knows what Bannon is whispering in his ears. America running around the world doing this scummy garbage is also terrible, feels like I don't even need to state that considering it was the first thing I said in my previous post. We still aren't on the level of the POTUS getting someone to poison an American citizen he doesn't like. Maybe I should have specified what I meant.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/06/world/europe/russia-vladimir-kara-murza-putin.html?_r=0

If you can find me that, I'll move into the camp of America is a faux-democratic nation of free speech oppression, which I guess you seem to be in? Doubt you are. Putin creates that type of society and is why O'Reilly, even though he tried to hammer Trump on this, didn't do a good enough job by just saying "he's a killer!". This attempted equivalency is just wrong. We've both taken evil actions, many large global powers have, however we're still a better society today than they are and that's gotta count for something.

[closg00]

It's fine to agree with Trump on the premise that America has done terrible things abroad and killed innocent people before. That's something the left has always beat the drum on with the criticism of American exceptionalism and innocence. I also don't believe Trump is smart enough to actually have specific historical examples in mind to point to when he made this comment besides going into Iraq and war with the Middle East in general. He is, as usual, talking out of his ass. But just like the candidates of this past election, putting the U.S. on the same level of Russia/Putin is a false equivalency. We don't kill political opponents or critics of our government. If we did, Maggie Haberman and Glenn Thrush wouldn't be writing in the NYT anymore, they'd be dead.

It would be ignorant to not mark this down as yet another suspicious and bizarre stalwart defense of Putin by Trump.

+1 Trumps reaction was a defensive protection of Putin and in doing-so he made a sloppy moral equivalence.

There is a lot of smoke here, the appointment of Tillerson, the dropping of the IT sanctions soon after along office, his traitorous defense of Russian election hacking, the half-billion dollars he owes to Russian/mafia banks, etc etc. Republicans would have multiple Committee investigations if this were a Democrat. Trump is arrogant and reckless, I don't think he'll last a full term in office.

[popper]

Man, you'd think somebody close to him would grab Trump by the collar and shake him. He looks so ridiculous making claims that are so easy to fact check and refute. Here he says murder rate highest in 40 plus years. It's embarrassing. Maybe his daughter and son-in-law should say, "dad, you lose credibility every time you say or publish a falsehood and you look outright ridiculous in the process. Stop talking and posting things unless you have a fact checker certify the accuracy of your public comments."

http://reason.com/blog/2017/02/07/trump-says-crime-is-at-highest-level-in

[bealwithit]

It's fine to agree with Trump on the premise that America has done terrible things abroad and killed innocent people before. That's something the left has always beat the drum on with the criticism of American exceptionalism and innocence. I also don't believe Trump is smart enough to actually have specific historical examples in mind to point to when he made this comment besides going into Iraq and war with the Middle East in general. He is, as usual, talking out of his ass. But just like the candidates of this past election, putting the U.S. on the same level of Russia/Putin is a false equivalency. We don't kill political opponents or critics of our government. If we did, Maggie Haberman and Glenn Thrush wouldn't be writing in the NYT anymore, they'd be dead.

It would be ignorant to not mark this down as yet another suspicious and bizarre stalwart defense of Putin by Trump.

+1 Trumps reaction was a defensive protection of Putin and in doing-so he made a sloppy moral equivalence.

There is a lot of smoke here, the appointment of Tillerson...

Not to cause any large debate about what is at this point old news, but the Tillerson thing is still so strange to me. All the more traditional nominees people discussed that were up for the job like Giuliani, Bolton, Stavridis... and he goes with the oil executive who is friendly with Vladdy Daddy. Tillerson admittedly has said all the right things so far publicly, but we all know how much that's worth. Very odd that, like many things this administration does, this flies under the radar and becomes normal. Just thumbing through previous Sec of States and you find they had been senators, had extensive military backgrounds or worked under previous administrations with a significant amount of knowledge about the international political stage. Trump picks the guy who "makes deals" like he does and is also of course a loyal GOP donor like our new girl Betsy!

http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/rex-tillerson.asp?cycle=16

Guess we'll see the results of things like this in due time...

[verbal8]

About Tillerson, I think Trump truly believes that business experience is at least as valuable as military or foreign policy experience.

It's fine to agree with Trump on the premise that America has done terrible things abroad and killed innocent people before. That's something the left has always beat the drum on with the criticism of American exceptionalism and innocence. I also don't believe Trump is smart enough to actually have specific historical examples in mind to point to when he made this comment besides going into Iraq and war with the Middle East in general. He is, as usual, talking out of his ass. But just like the candidates of this past election, putting the U.S. on the same level of Russia/Putin is a false equivalency. We don't kill political opponents or critics of our government. If we did, Maggie Haberman and Glenn Thrush wouldn't be writing in the NYT anymore, they'd be dead.

It would be ignorant to not mark this down as yet another suspicious and bizarre stalwart defense of Putin by Trump.

+1 Trumps reaction was a defensive protection of Putin and in doing-so he made a sloppy moral equivalence.

There is a lot of smoke here, the appointment of Tillerson...

Not to cause any large debate about what is at this point old news, but the Tillerson thing is still so strange to me. All the more traditional nominees people discussed that were up for the job like Giuliani, Bolton, Stavridis... and he goes with the oil executive who is friendly with Vladdy Daddy. Tillerson admittedly has said all the right things so far publicly, but we all know how much that's worth. Very odd that, like many things this administration does, this flies under the radar and becomes normal. Just thumbing through previous Sec of States and you find they had been senators, had extensive military backgrounds or worked under previous administrations with a significant amount of knowledge about the international political stage. Trump picks the guy who "makes deals" like he does and is also of course a loyal GOP donor like our new girl Betsy!

http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/rex-tillerson.asp?cycle=16

Guess we'll see the results of things like this in due time...

[JWizmentality]

I hope the NYT and others continue to flood the airwaves with lightly sourced reports of bathrobe nonsense and others. I like it. You have the Press Secretary spending his time to refute that Donald Trump owns a bathrobe. Trump can't help himself. More golden showers please. I can't wait to see the cheeto have a massive mental breakdown.

[Induveca]

Verbal, not a fan of Tillerson. I do happen to agree, international business negotiations at the highest levels (like Tillerson has experienced for decades) require extreme diplomacy and negotiation with an expectation of an actual deal, vs the traditional foot-dragging in standard diplomacy.

Tillerson's connections throughout the entire Middle East/Russia/EU/China are more extensive and leverageable than any random upper middle class senator.

Sadly wealth and power mean A LOT during any negotiation in most foreign settings. For instance a Rand Paul type would not do well negotiating with the Royals in Qatar, nor the government in Nigeria.

Sad, but reality. All that being said I'd prefer the pick wasn't Tillerson myself.

[Induveca]

I hope the NYT and others continue to flood the airwaves with lightly sourced reports of bathrobe nonsense and others. I like it. You have the Press Secretary spending his time to refute that Donald Trump owns a bathrobe. Trump can't help himself. More golden showers please. I can't wait to see the cheeto have a massive mental breakdown.

I'd argue he's already caused that very thing for a large number of his detractors.

[JWizmentality]

I hope the NYT and others continue to flood the airwaves with lightly sourced reports of bathrobe nonsense and others. I like it. You have the Press Secretary spending his time to refute that Donald Trump owns a bathrobe. Trump can't help himself. More golden showers please. I can't wait to see the cheeto have a massive mental breakdown.

I'd argue he's already caused that very thing for a large number of his detractors.

Indeed. One has never encountered such brazen, unapologetic incompetence. Time to fight fire with fire. Don't care if it's unsourced or an outright lie. Put it out there.

[Kanyewest]

For folks who think things are just fine for gay people and how dare they protest... the Comet Ping Pong restaurant in our home town continues to have outrageous proplems. https://www.washingtonblade.com/2017/01/19/anti-gay-protesters-picket-gay-owned-d-c-restaurant/

Watch on YouTube

I know someone who believes that the scandal is real. I wasn't sure what to say to him to make him believe otherwise; people are going to believe what they want to.

[Kanyewest]

Imagine if someone in the conservative media said this about Obama:

“As we know, there's, since 2000, been a couple dozen suspicious deaths of journalists in Russia who came out against the government there. Donald Trump has made no secret about going after journalists and his distaste for any news that doesn't agree with him here. Do you find that this is a dangerous path he is heading down?”

So now we have reputable members of the mainstream media implying that our President is going to assassinate journalists.

I thought she was implying that Trump was going to censor them, not kill them.

[nate33]

Podesta and company were definitely speaking in code when they made strange references to pizza. That code may not have anything to do with a child sex ring, but it was code for something.

[Kanyewest]

Podesta and company were definitely speaking in code when they made strange references to pizza. That code may not have anything to do with a child sex ring, but it was code for something.

I'm unfamiliar with the remarks about Podesta/Clinton about pizza gate. What do you think they were alluding to if it wasn't a child sex ring?

[nate33]

Podesta and company were definitely speaking in code when they made strange references to pizza. That code may not have anything to do with a child sex ring, but it was code for something.

I'm unfamiliar with the remarks about Podesta/Clinton about pizza gate. What do you think they were alluding to if it wasn't a child sex ring?

I don't know. It's probably something illegal, or at least immoral, if they felt they needed to speak in code about it. Drugs? Illegal donations?

[Donkey McDonkerton]

Podesta and company were definitely speaking in code when they made strange references to pizza. That code may not have anything to do with a child sex ring, but it was code for something.

I'm unfamiliar with the remarks about Podesta/Clinton about pizza gate. What do you think they were alluding to if it wasn't a child sex ring?

I don't know. It's probably something illegal, or at least immoral, if they felt they needed to speak in code about it. Drugs? Illegal donations?

Yeah donkey trafficking...gtfo.

[nate33]

Here is the most reputable summary of "pizzagate" I could find. http://www.unz.com/article/pizzagate/

There's certainly no hard proof of this and I'm not in any way saying that there is. But there is a lot of weird stuff going on. It may only be confirmation bias, but some of the things are highly coincidental and/or pretty inexplicable.

The weirdest Podesta email involves Joe Podesta being asked this question: “The realtor found a handkerchief (I think it has a map that seems pizza-related). Is it yours?” That's just weird. You don't put those words together unless it's code for something.

Another email involves Podesta being invited to a farm and the host says, “Bonnie will be Uber Service to transport Ruby, Emerson, and Maeve Luzzatto (11, 9, and almost 7) so you’ll have some further entertainment, and they will be in [the] pool for sure.”. That's possibly innocuous, but why include their ages? Again, it's weird enough to raise an eyebrow.

Then there's a whole bunch of weird and creepy photos from jimmycomet's instagram, and there's the strange coincidence on how comet pizza's logo is suspiciously similar to known pedophilia logos. Beyond that, there's a bunch of six-degrees-of-separation coincidences that are just as likely to be confirmation bias as anything else.

Here's a reddit thread on some of the weirder emails: https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5b1wbv/who_plays_dominos_on_cheese_or_pasta_internet/

Again, before everyone jumps all over me, I'm not saying I believe this. And I certainly haven't seen anything that PROVES there's a pedophilia ring. All I'm just saying there's some weird stuff going on. If nothing else, Joe Podesta is definitely a creepy guy. Judge for yourself.

[AFM]

Who doesn't have a handkerchief that has a map that seems pizza related?

That's like a sentence you ask an android to see if it's a robot or not. The Podesta Turing test.