Mudiay vs Murray

[Saints14]

Hi Nuggets board,

Outsider here and was curious on your perspective. Who do you guys like more in terms of future value - Emmanuel Mudiay or Jamal Murray? Do you guys see Mudiay improving on his game and becoming your franchise PG, or do you see Murray as the PG of the future? What are the likely ceilings for these two?

[The Rebel]

I think most of us agree that Murray is likely the PG of the future, however I am not ready to write off Mudiay at this point either. It really is impossible to know what the future holds for either, but both have shown tremendous ability at times.

[RRFB]

Yeah I'm not completely ready to give up on Mudiay, but I feel pretty confident saying Murray is the future franchise PG of this team.

[Riko]

IMO Mudiay is a bust, it is time to move on with Murray or another PG (I think Murray will be an awesome sixth man).

[skywalker33]

IMO Mudiay is a bust, it is time to move on with Murray or another PG (I think Murray will be an awesome sixth man).

Instant Gratification Mentality, calling a 21yr old with 1.5yrs of PT a bust is really silly. I still think Mudiay has a lot of promise and yet think he has a lot to mature in his game. He's show flashes and IS playing the hardest position in the NBA, give his 2-3 more years.
Considering they threw him into the fire as a starter right away wasn't easy for a then 19yr old. Don't think he's really regressed but he hasn't progressed either.

Murray is being brought along a bit slower, but has shown that something special that is going to explode soon. Either way I'm happy to say they are both Nuggets !!

[NuggetsWY]

I'd say Murray and Mudiay are totally different players. Murray seems most likely to more of a scoring PG with great handles and capable of creating his own shot, while able to create shots for others. He seems capable of scoring from long-range, mid-range, and at-the basket (even in traffic). He also appears to have potential as a quick defender.

Meanwhile, Mudiay seems like he'll be more of a half-court offensive PG. He seems like his strengths will be spot-up shooting and scoring in the paint. He is fearless and rather strong. He's not as quick as Murray and will need to learn to play defense more wisely (but that's not unusual for young guards). He also has a weird hitch in his shot that he has been working on. When it is not there, he's a pretty good shot. He's also a great passer.

Add those two with Gary Harris (all three about the same height) and the Nuggets will have some serious interchangable parts in their backcourt. Keeping Barton and/or Beasley would seem to be all the Nuggets need (plus someone for emergency service).

[SoCalNuggsFan]

Agree with everything said here outside of the Mudiay is a bust comment.

But side bar: remember when Mudiay was considered a John wall esque athlete coming into the draft and Murray wasn't athletic enough to ever be a really good player? Murray is clearly very much more athletic haha.

[The Rebel]

One thing I will add about Mudiay, he is actually a good spot up shooter from outside. I have said before and probably will again, Mudiay needs to be on the court with e shooters. It is amazing the difference between Barton and Harris being on the floor with Mudiay and I think it has to do with their games.

[Riko]

IMO Mudiay is a bust, it is time to move on with Murray or another PG (I think Murray will be an awesome sixth man).

Instant Gratification Mentality, calling a 21yr old with 1.5yrs of PT a bust is really silly. I still think Mudiay has a lot of promise and yet think he has a lot to mature in his game. He's show flashes and IS playing the hardest position in the NBA, give his 2-3 more years.
Considering they threw him into the fire as a starter right away wasn't easy for a then 19yr old. Don't think he's really regressed but he hasn't progressed either.

FG% 36.9
FG3% 30.8

He is a burden on the floor both on offense and defense (-2.0 OBPM, -1.6 DBPM, -3.6 BPM), he doesn't fit with Jokic (Mudiay needs p&r while Jokic needs the ball in his hand in HP) and, to be fair, he regress compared to last season.
If denver want to build a team around Jokic (and IMO they should) it is time to move on: Murray, Dragic, or another 40% 3 points shooter.

p.s I still don't find a stats about Mudiay's good spot up shooter, I see NBA's site and in their stats he is bad too (something like 34% FG and 33.6% 3p) ...

[NuggetsWY]

IMO Mudiay is a bust, it is time to move on with Murray or another PG (I think Murray will be an awesome sixth man).

Instant Gratification Mentality, calling a 21yr old with 1.5yrs of PT a bust is really silly. I still think Mudiay has a lot of promise and yet think he has a lot to mature in his game. He's show flashes and IS playing the hardest position in the NBA, give his 2-3 more years.
Considering they threw him into the fire as a starter right away wasn't easy for a then 19yr old. Don't think he's really regressed but he hasn't progressed either.

FG% 36.9
FG3% 30.8

He is a burden on the floor both on offense and defense (-2.0 OBPM, -1.6 DBPM, -3.6 BPM), he doesn't fit with Jokic (Mudiay needs p&r while Jokic needs the ball in his hand in HP) and, to be fair, he regress compared to last season.
If denver want to build a team around Jokic (and IMO they should) it is time to move on: Murray, Dragic, or another 40% 3 points shooter.

p.s I still don't find a stats about Mudiay's good spot up shooter, I see NBA's site and in their stats he is bad too (something like 34% FG and 33.6% 3p) ...

Eye-test says he's good in spurts, especially when he eliminates the hitch in his shot.

[Tecmo]

Murray has drive, the "it" factor, killer instinct and the ability to score from deep or drive to the hoop. He's got my vote regardless of Mudiay's progress (which hasn't been good).

[skywalker33]

IMO Mudiay is a bust, it is time to move on with Murray or another PG (I think Murray will be an awesome sixth man).

Instant Gratification Mentality, calling a 21yr old with 1.5yrs of PT a bust is really silly. I still think Mudiay has a lot of promise and yet think he has a lot to mature in his game. He's show flashes and IS playing the hardest position in the NBA, give his 2-3 more years.
Considering they threw him into the fire as a starter right away wasn't easy for a then 19yr old. Don't think he's really regressed but he hasn't progressed either.

FG% 36.9
FG3% 30.8

He is a burden on the floor both on offense and defense (-2.0 OBPM, -1.6 DBPM, -3.6 BPM), he doesn't fit with Jokic (Mudiay needs p&r while Jokic needs the ball in his hand in HP) and, to be fair, he regress compared to last season.
If denver want to build a team around Jokic (and IMO they should) it is time to move on: Murray, Dragic, or another 40% 3 points shooter.

p.s I still don't find a stats about Mudiay's good spot up shooter, I see NBA's site and in their stats he is bad too (something like 34% FG and 33.6% 3p) ...

What are your thoughts on the following players:

Chauncey Billups
Kyle Lowry
Eric Bledsoe
John Wall


All these PG's took time to develop, but they all had the talent to succeed. Do you think HOU would love to have waited on Lowry to become the player he is today ? Did BOS and DEN give up too early on Chanucey ??? Bledsoe has finally become a complete PG, although he dealt with a lot of injuries early in his career. Even Wall has continued to develop over the past couple of years to put him into the superstar he is....and you want to give up on a guy that was thought of as the #1 overall pick for quite a while before the 2015 draft ?

Instant Gratification = short-sightedness.

[youngthegiant]

Murray is such a natural fit next to Jokic, I hope it doesn't take Denver 2 years to figure this out. Not a knock on Mudiay, I still believe he will be a good player but it shouldn't be here. Murray's ability to shoot and play off the ball is going to be great. He is already a better defender than Mudiay and projects to be a leader. Murray is going to be star, I feel it.

[NuggetsWY]

Of course we all know that our polls don't really matter. Who gets the playing time is totally up to the coach.
Where does Malone vote? We probably all know where his vote lies.

Murray MPG
Nov 24
Dec 19
Jan 17
Feb 24 - with Mudiay injured

[Tecmo]

Malone ignores the poll and votes for Nelson.

[Chuck Everett]

They're too young to make this an either or thing. Both guys are willing passers who can also play off the ball. The problem is the coach has no idea what to do with his point guards that aren't 10+ year vets. Murray has basically play the point in ONE single game, other than that, he's being very passive at the point of attack. Mudiay has been pretty passive all year. Neither PG really plays like they played over the summer or before they got to the Nuggets and push pace. It's very strange.

[Riko]

What are your thoughts on the following players:

Chauncey Billups
Kyle Lowry
Eric Bledsoe
John Wall


All these PG's took time to develop, but they all had the talent to succeed. Do you think HOU would love to have waited on Lowry to become the player he is today ? Did BOS and DEN give up too early on Chanucey ??? Bledsoe has finally become a complete PG, although he dealt with a lot of injuries early in his career. Even Wall has continued to develop over the past couple of years to put him into the superstar he is....and you want to give up on a guy that was thought of as the #1 overall pick for quite a while before the 2015 draft ?

Instant Gratification = short-sightedness.

Yes, I want to give up on a PG who can't shoot to save his life, who needs the ball in his hand to be (always belove average) effective and creates problem to the player I rate as denver's centerpiece for the next decade.
In the last and half month Jokic persuaded me that he can be the central piece in a contender's squad and should be surround by suitable player for him. Mudiay is a problem for Jokic's style and the same thing is worth even for Wall and Bledsoe (picking from your list).

So I repeat, move on: Murray, Dragic, or another 38-40% 3 points shooter PG.

[skywalker33]

What are your thoughts on the following players:

Chauncey Billups
Kyle Lowry
Eric Bledsoe
John Wall


All these PG's took time to develop, but they all had the talent to succeed. Do you think HOU would love to have waited on Lowry to become the player he is today ? Did BOS and DEN give up too early on Chanucey ??? Bledsoe has finally become a complete PG, although he dealt with a lot of injuries early in his career. Even Wall has continued to develop over the past couple of years to put him into the superstar he is....and you want to give up on a guy that was thought of as the #1 overall pick for quite a while before the 2015 draft ?

Instant Gratification = short-sightedness.

Yes, I want to give up on a PG who can't shoot to save his life, who needs the ball in his hand to be (always belove average) effective and creates problem to the player I rate as denver's centerpiece for the next decade.
In the last and half month Jokic persuaded me that he can be the central piece in a contender's squad and should be surround by suitable player for him. Mudiay is a problem for Jokic's style and the same thing is worth even for Wall and Bledsoe (picking from your list).

So I repeat, move on: Murray, Dragic, or another 38-40% 3 points shooter PG.

So you want to add a 30yr old PG with $55MM left on his contract where MIA would want at least one 1st rder ??? That just make SOOOO much sense

Go ahead, bankrupt our future for the sake of being mediocre now I'll take Mudiay for a couple more years at $2MM with some potential over a 30yr old making $18MM whose reached his ceiling and will be on the decline soon.

[NuggetsWY]

What are your thoughts on the following players:

Chauncey Billups
Kyle Lowry
Eric Bledsoe
John Wall


All these PG's took time to develop, but they all had the talent to succeed. Do you think HOU would love to have waited on Lowry to become the player he is today ? Did BOS and DEN give up too early on Chanucey ??? Bledsoe has finally become a complete PG, although he dealt with a lot of injuries early in his career. Even Wall has continued to develop over the past couple of years to put him into the superstar he is....and you want to give up on a guy that was thought of as the #1 overall pick for quite a while before the 2015 draft ?

Instant Gratification = short-sightedness.

Yes, I want to give up on a PG who can't shoot to save his life, who needs the ball in his hand to be (always belove average) effective and creates problem to the player I rate as denver's centerpiece for the next decade.
In the last and half month Jokic persuaded me that he can be the central piece in a contender's squad and should be surround by suitable player for him. Mudiay is a problem for Jokic's style and the same thing is worth even for Wall and Bledsoe (picking from your list).

So I repeat, move on: Murray, Dragic, or another 38-40% 3 points shooter PG.

So you want to add a 30yr old PG with $55MM left on his contract where MIA would want at least one 1st rder ??? That just make SOOOO much sense

Go ahead, bankrupt our future for the sake of being mediocre now I'll take Mudiay for a couple more years at $2MM with some potential over a 30yr old making $18MM whose reached his ceiling and will be on the decline soon.

Uh, well, let me think about this, errr, $18m vs $2m - for a backup? Duh! $2m with potential? Really? We have to think about this?

Young players sometimes take time to prove their worth. See the list in an above posting by Skywalker. Denver is NOT contending for a title for at least 3-5 years. Why waste money on someone that will be past their prime at that point? I'd want to keep most of our current veterans if our coach wouldn't play them so much. But since he can't resist, I say trade them all! Fire sale! I think they could have value. But we need to trade Faried, Arthur, Gallinari, Chandler, Nelson, and maybe Barton - just so Malone will play our young players. Adding another 30+ will drive me bonkers (and most will say I'm already close, based on my Nuggets' obsession).

[Riko]

So you want to add a 30yr old PG with $55MM left on his contract where MIA would want at least one 1st rder ??? That just make SOOOO much sense

Go ahead, bankrupt our future for the sake of being mediocre now I'll take Mudiay for a couple more years at $2MM with some potential over a 30yr old making $18MM whose reached his ceiling and will be on the decline soon.

Dragic is just an example of a type of player - I even said to use Murray - ... And, to be fair, his contract is quite good in new CBA (in a couple of years the salary will be 110+ milion so 18 milion wuold be the 16% or even less).
Bankrupt our future for selling Mudiay? Wow. He played a good strecht of games last season but this season he played, at best, 3 decent and 1 good games.

p.s I see enough youngster in Denver's roster even without Mudiay, but maybe is just me...