Luka Doncic

[UcanUwill]

Ha at you asking other people to be objective. Dude, you are the biggest agenda poster on the whole site, just trying to deify Euroleague basketball like its bigger than god, whenever the opportunity arrives. Just like some of these Americans who say Euroleague level of competition is complete crap, you are the other side of the same crap, with your exaggerations. Dude, you are not convincing anyone, why are you even trying so hard.

Fultz would most likely get significant minutes on Real Madrid, hes an exceptional talent. Real Madrid has a record of not trusting young bigmen like Hernangomez, who was rotting on the bench last year, yet contributing in NYC this year, but I see no reason why guy like Fultz would be the same, Fultz and Doncic, as I said, are similar. Doncic is even younger and he plays a significant role, Markelle would probably be the same way. He wouldnt be ''best player and unstoppable'' lol, but he is capable of contributing on any Euroleague team.

I also have hard time believing that top college team would go 0-30. Any college team would be bottomfeeder for sure, but go winless, I find that hard to believe. Look at team like Unics, is Unics so much better than top college team. YOu have Keith Langford dominating big time, and then theres just a bunch of scrubs. Grown men scrubs who would probably outplay college red shirts, I grant you, but on a good day, I see no reason why top college team with a few NBA prospects, couldn't beat that team.

[SportsGuy8]

Personally, I actually like that Mirotic is contributing to this thread. Many of his claims are valid, you just need to lessen (often substantially) his absolutes.

With that said, this is exactly why I cannot forget about that "197 IQ" statement. The key to intelligence is doubt. Doubt is the basis for logical and critical thinking. Being "100% positive" about something like that shows a severe lack of that.

Due to sheer variance alone, the actual strength differential would need to be incredibly high so that a 30-0 record becomes 99.5% (so we can round it up to 100%; actual 100% is obviously impossible, although I wouldn't put it past him to actually have that absolute in mind).

Even if European powerhouses have enough firepower so that a 30-0 record gets a 99.5% probability (although I would gladly take the other side if offered such a bet), it's highly unlikely bottom Euroleague teams (although still very good) could come close to such probability. There's simply too much variance in play.

What if the NCAA team was incredibly hot, hitting everything, while the Euroleague team had a super cold night?
What if something unexpected happened when the Euroleague team was on the road, like a fire in their hotel, and they're forced to stay awake the whole night?
What if the whole Euroleague team got food poisoning or a bad flu?
What if the Euroleague team's starting lineup was eaten by vicious pandas who owed their bookie money?
...
There's just so many things that can alter the result heavily, some basketball related, some not. Every team faces an incredible amount of adversity during their long seasons.

Fultz would most likely get significant minutes on Real Madrid, hes an exceptional talent. Real Madrid has a record of not trusting young bigmen like Hernangomez, who was rotting on the bench last year, yet contributing in NYC this year, but I see no reason why guy like Fultz would be the same, Fultz and Doncic, as I said, are similar. Doncic is even younger and he plays a significant role, Markelle would probably be the same way. He wouldnt be ''best player and unstoppable'' lol, but he is capable of contributing on any Euroleague team.

Exactly. While Fultz could have had problems getting minutes under some no-nonsense type of coach, Pablo Laso would probably drool at the thought of having him on the roster.

Last, but not the least, speaking of objectivity:

You can see it clear as day...even guys like Teodosic or Llull, get nothing in calls compared to Doncic. Guys like Llull, Teodosic, Spanoulis, especially Teodosic and Spanoulis (the most probably in his case), can drive to the basket and get hammered again and again - and usually won't draw a foul.

It's interesting how you mention objectivity when even in this thread you couldn't stop yourself from mentioning (and hiddenly praising) your favorite crybaby Spanoulis, the basketball's mummy's boy.

[Sports Geek]

Personally, I actually like that Mirotic is contributing to this thread. Many of his claims are valid, you just need to lessen (often substantially) his absolutes.

I don't. Sometimes he gets to the point of being disrespectful. So I decided not to answer him anymore. Plus he is blind or a trol. I pointed that Doncic is LEADING THE EUROLEAGUE in PIR in the last 7 rounds, PLAYING FOR THE TEAM THAT IS AT THE FIRST PLACE (the MVP is usually chosen from the best team) and IF HE KEEPS PLAYING AT THIS LEVEL, he will be in the MVP conversations.

Now I will add another stat, I am sure meaningless for him (but I don't care, I just want to share information for other posters who DO really want to have a serious and respectful discussion): Doncic is third in overall (whole Euroleague season) PIR per 40 minutes, with 28'96 points (which is amazing given the very small amount of shots he takes). How couldn't he be in the MVP race if he keeps doing like this?

Mirotic12 always tries to distort others' words and deny reality, numbers. So I think it is impossible to have a normal conversation with him, because he doesn't want to discuss anything, he just wants attention.

[Bob8]

I agree with Mirotic12, let's stop talking and rather look to some data.

Players Index rating per 40 minutes in Euroleague this year,

http://www.euroleague.net/main/statistics?mode=Leaders&entity=Players&seasonmode=Single&seasoncode=E2016&cat=Valuation&agg=PerMinute

All time players index rating per 40 minutes in Euroleague. Doncics number are from this and last seasons(16 and 17 years old). You can see no Rubio anywhere.

http://www.euroleague.net/main/statistics?mode=Leaders&entity=Players&seasonmode=All&cat=Valuation&agg=PerMinute

Rebounds per 40 minutes this year. Only C and Pf in front of Doncic.

http://www.euroleague.net/main/statistics?mode=Leaders&entity=Players&seasonmode=Single&seasoncode=E2016&cat=TotalRebounds&agg=PerMinute

Assists per 40 minutes in Euroleague this year,

http://www.euroleague.net/main/statistics?mode=Leaders&entity=Players&seasonmode=Single&seasoncode=E2016&cat=Assistances&agg=PerMinute

This are great stats for Doncic, but I agree with Mirotic12, he is not contender for the season MVP award, mainly because he's not playing enough. But even this is changing rapidly. In last 6 games his players index rating were, 31, 12, 32, 12, 23, 30. Avg. 23.33, the most in Euroleague.
Doing that he avg. 12.5 points per game, 5.66 Rbd, 5.5 Ass and he had only 1.0 TO. 2FG 61.1%, 3FG 50%, FT 77,7 % in 24.12 minutes. In this 6 weeks, he was 4 time game MVP and once Euroleague round MVP.
To give some perspective to this numbers. Best Euroleague scorer this season is Langford with 22,4 points( in 34,17 minutes), rebounder Kuzmic with 8.0 rebounds, Assistant Teaodosic with 7.6 assists.

If someone is thinking Fultz would have dominated Euroleague, he should look to Anthony Bennett's numbers. He was number 1 pick in 2013 Nba Draft. His numbers in Nba weren't good, but he had some playing time in Nba until this December when he went in Euroleague. I'm sure many thought he will do fine in Eurolegue. Here are his numbers,

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=007615&seasoncode=E2016

He was in roster 4 times, has got minutes only twice and yes you see right, he didn't score in Euroleague yet and had 1 rebound in 2 games. Real has even deeper roster than Fenerbahce, so I can say with big certainty Fultz would have great problems to get some minutes and would have need at least 1 year to adapt to Euroleague game.

Some more soft data for the end. Many Real Madrid fans think Doncic is already the best player of Real Madrid. Coach trust him more every day. He will play this summer Eurobasket for Slovenia national team and will be together with Goran Dragic main weapon for the team that will be one of the contenders for the medal.

I have watched every game Luka has played and I don't need this numbers to know how special he is, but I hope, that I help someone to see what are we talking about. In the same time I understand that there are different opinions and that's normal and I would never want to be different.

[BillyKingGM]

A good D1 team with a bunch of seniors and a couple lotto prospects could easily hit .250 or .300 in Euroleague play. I've seen some of these teams, it doesn't matter how old you are, a team like last years Nova or two years ago Duke would absolutely slaughter some of these EL teams. You just couldn't defend some of these kids.

[BillyKingGM]

If someone is thinking Fultz would have dominated Euroleague, he should look to Anthony Bennett's numbers. He was number 1 pick in 2013 Nba Draft. His numbers in Nba weren't good, but he had some playing time in Nba until this December when he went in Euroleague. I'm sure many thought he will do fine in Eurolegue. Here are his numbers,

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=007615&seasoncode=E2016

He was in roster 4 times, has got minutes only twice and yes you see right, he didn't score in Euroleague yet and had 1 rebound in 2 games. Real has even deeper roster than Fenerbahce, so I can say with big certainty Fultz would have great problems to get some minutes and would have need at least 1 year to adapt to Euroleague game.

This is pretty bogus, Fultz would be starting on a NBA team right now and putting up ROTY numbers, while Bennett just got cut from the worst team in the NBA. The only reason he is even still playing professional basketball, or was earlier this year, was because of his draft position. If he had went 8-9th that year he wouldn't of been on a pro roster for the last 3 years.

[Bob8]

I'm right, you looked wrong. First stats. are for this year, second stats. are all time.

Here you have again,

http://www.euroleague.net/main/statistics?mode=Leaders&entity=Players&seasonmode=All&cat=Valuation&agg=PerMinute

Rubio is not there, because he simply was not that good in Euroleague, even not in his last year when he was 20 years old. Rubio stats,

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=LFW#!careerstats

[Bob8]

If someone is thinking Fultz would have dominated Euroleague, he should look to Anthony Bennett's numbers. He was number 1 pick in 2013 Nba Draft. His numbers in Nba weren't good, but he had some playing time in Nba until this December when he went in Euroleague. I'm sure many thought he will do fine in Eurolegue. Here are his numbers,

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=007615&seasoncode=E2016

He was in roster 4 times, has got minutes only twice and yes you see right, he didn't score in Euroleague yet and had 1 rebound in 2 games. Real has even deeper roster than Fenerbahce, so I can say with big certainty Fultz would have great problems to get some minutes and would have need at least 1 year to adapt to Euroleague game.

This is pretty bogus, Fultz would be starting on a NBA team right now and putting up ROTY numbers, while Bennett just got cut from the worst team in the NBA. The only reason he is even still playing professional basketball, or was earlier this year, was because of his draft position. If he had went 8-9th that year he wouldn't of been on a pro roster for the last 3 years.

I'm sure they thought the same for Bennett when they drafted him first in 2013.

Euroleague and NCAA basketball are so different and Real Madrid team so deep with good players, many stars in NCAA or decent players in Nba and not getting many minutes. Like I said, he would need time.

[BillyKingGM]

If someone is thinking Fultz would have dominated Euroleague, he should look to Anthony Bennett's numbers. He was number 1 pick in 2013 Nba Draft. His numbers in Nba weren't good, but he had some playing time in Nba until this December when he went in Euroleague. I'm sure many thought he will do fine in Eurolegue. Here are his numbers,

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=007615&seasoncode=E2016

He was in roster 4 times, has got minutes only twice and yes you see right, he didn't score in Euroleague yet and had 1 rebound in 2 games. Real has even deeper roster than Fenerbahce, so I can say with big certainty Fultz would have great problems to get some minutes and would have need at least 1 year to adapt to Euroleague game.

This is pretty bogus, Fultz would be starting on a NBA team right now and putting up ROTY numbers, while Bennett just got cut from the worst team in the NBA. The only reason he is even still playing professional basketball, or was earlier this year, was because of his draft position. If he had went 8-9th that year he wouldn't of been on a pro roster for the last 3 years.

I'm sure they thought the same for Bennett when they drafted him first in 2013.

Euroleague and NCAA basketball are so different and Real Madrid team so deep with good players, many stars in NCAA or decent players in Nba and not getting many minutes. Like I said, he would need time.

I'm gonna go out on a limb that if you don't realize the prospect difference between Fultz and AB (pre NBA) then you probably don't watch much american basketball. Which is fine, but when you say "LOL ANTHONY BENNETT GOT CUT IN EUROLEAGUE CLEARLY EUROLEAGUE IS AWESOME" it makes us all shake our heads.

AB was a surprise #1 overall pick in a super weak prospect class. Fultz is the head-and-shoulders #1 pick in possibly one of the best draft classes of all time. AB had a tiny chance to become an All-star level PF. Fultz has a decent shot of becoming James Harden.

We understand that Doncic is maybe the best prospect to come out of Europe -- that's fine. But when you compare him to Rubio... well... no one gives a crap if you're a better prospect than a non top-20 PG in the NBA. There's 5-6 players just at the top of the 2017 draft class that are gonna be way better than Rubio.

[Sports Geek]

This are great stats for Doncic, but he is not contender for the season MVP award, mainly because he's not playing enough.

I agree with most parts of your post. Not with this one though. Only Rudy and Llull play significant more minutes than Doncic in Real Madrid, mostly because it is maybe the deepest team in the league. Doncic is sharing a second minutes' pack with Ayon and Randolph. Who could be the contender for Real Madrid for the MVP Award? Maybe the biggest one would be Llull (better total numbers and a better status as a star for years), then Doncic (better per 40 numbers), then Ayón (close to Doncic's per 40 but less clutch, he barely plays in 4th quarters).

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/teams/showteam?clubcode=MAD&seasoncode=E2016#!stats

In the end, MVP Award is about promoting the competition. Does someone doubt that Spanoulis would be the MVP of the season if Olympiacos ends up in the first place? Even when his PIR is not the top in his team (not even in the league's top 30). But he is Spanoulis, that's marketing. Because of the same reason, Doncic could be the MVP of the season. He is really marketable (so young and even he looks good) and Euroleague would be trending topic if that happens.

The funny thing is that Spanoulis is in everybody's mind when we talk about an MVP Award averaging a 12.53 PIR and a 18.79 per 40, while Doncic has a 13.90 PIR and 28.96 per 40, much better numbers than the eternal superstar (and most overrated one ever). I mention Doncic as one of the contenders for the MVP if he keeps doing like this, and I am crazy.

[Bob8]

This is pretty bogus, Fultz would be starting on a NBA team right now and putting up ROTY numbers, while Bennett just got cut from the worst team in the NBA. The only reason he is even still playing professional basketball, or was earlier this year, was because of his draft position. If he had went 8-9th that year he wouldn't of been on a pro roster for the last 3 years.

I'm sure they thought the same for Bennett when they drafted him first in 2013.

Euroleague and NCAA basketball are so different and Real Madrid team so deep with good players, many stars in NCAA or decent players in Nba and not getting many minutes. Like I said, he would need time.

I'm gonna go out on a limb that if you don't realize the prospect difference between Fultz and AB (pre NBA) then you probably don't watch much american basketball. Which is fine, but when you say "LOL ANTHONY BENNETT GOT CUT IN EUROLEAGUE CLEARLY EUROLEAGUE IS AWESOME" it makes us all shake our heads.

AB was a surprise #1 overall pick in a super weak prospect class. Fultz is the head-and-shoulders #1 pick in possibly one of the best draft classes of all time. AB had a tiny chance to become an All-star level PF. Fultz has a decent shot of becoming James Harden.

We understand that Doncic is maybe the best prospect to come out of Europe -- that's fine. But when you compare him to Rubio... well... no one gives a crap if you're a better prospect than a non top-20 PG in the NBA. There's 5-6 players just at the top of the 2017 draft class that are gonna be way better than Rubio.

No need for this attitude. I didn't say Fultz won't have great career, I just said he wouldn't do anything special in Euroleague at this moment. I'm sure you don't expect from Fultz to dominate Nba in his rookie year? It's somehow disrespectful to say some NCAA freshman will dominate Euroleague in his first season. No one before did that and Euroleague is this year with new format, only 16 best teams, much better than before. Euroleague is much nearer to Nba than NCAA to Euroleague. Euroleague is very defense oriented, what is doing Fultz in NCAA is simply impossible. Let's for argument sake say he will come in Real Madrid next week. Here is the roster, http://www.euroleague.net/competition/teams/showteam?clubcode=MAD&seasoncode=E2016

Whose minutes will he take?

[Bob8]

This are great stats for Doncic, but he is not contender for the season MVP award, mainly because he's not playing enough.

I agree with most parts of your post. Not with this one though. Only Rudy and Llull play significant more minutes than Doncic in Real Madrid, mostly because it is maybe the deepest team in the league. Doncic is sharing a second minutes' pack with Ayon and Randolph. Who could be the contender for Real Madrid for the MVP Award? Maybe the biggest one would be Llull (better total numbers and a better status as a star for years), then Doncic (better per 40 numbers), then Ayón (close to Doncic's per 40 but less clutch, he barely plays in 4th quarters).

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/teams/showteam?clubcode=MAD&seasoncode=E2016#!stats

In the end, MVP Award is about promoting the competition. Does someone doubt that Spanoulis would be the MVP of the season if Olympiacos ends up in the first place? Even when his PIR is not the top in his team (not even in the league's top 30). But he is Spanoulis, that's marketing. Because of the same reason, Doncic could be the MVP of the season. He is really marketable (so young and even he looks good) and Euroleague would be trending topic if that happens.

The funny thing is that Spanoulis is in everybody's mind when we talk about an MVP Award averaging a 12.53 PIR and a 18.79 per 40, while Doncic has a 13.90 PIR and 28.96 per 40, much better numbers than the eternal superstar (and most overrated one ever). I mention Doncic as one of the contenders for the MVP if he keeps doing like this, and I am crazy.

Where did you find Spanoulis? Doncic will get rising star award, they will give MVP to Llull if they really need someone from Real. But the main candidates are Nando and Teodosic. Something like that, http://www.euroleague.net/news/i/7jqav9sbcnghb9be/mid-season-survey-of-euroleague-general-managers-part-2

Final four MVP is more open, but if Fener qualifies to Final Four, they are clear favorites in Istanbul and with that one of Fener players for MVP.

[Sports Geek]

Where did you find Spanoulis? Doncic will get rising star award, they will give MVP to Llull if they really need someone from Real. But the main candidates are Nando and Teodosic.

CSKA was the dominant team back then, now is Real Madrid, later it could be Olympiacos or any other. Those votes could change with the final standings. I mentioned Spanoulis just as an example of what having a reputation means, he is always in the talk, no matter how he performs.

[Bob8]

I'm sure they thought the same for Bennett when they drafted him first in 2013.

Euroleague and NCAA basketball are so different and Real Madrid team so deep with good players, many stars in NCAA or decent players in Nba and not getting many minutes. Like I said, he would need time.

I'm gonna go out on a limb that if you don't realize the prospect difference between Fultz and AB (pre NBA) then you probably don't watch much american basketball. Which is fine, but when you say "LOL ANTHONY BENNETT GOT CUT IN EUROLEAGUE CLEARLY EUROLEAGUE IS AWESOME" it makes us all shake our heads.

AB was a surprise #1 overall pick in a super weak prospect class. Fultz is the head-and-shoulders #1 pick in possibly one of the best draft classes of all time. AB had a tiny chance to become an All-star level PF. Fultz has a decent shot of becoming James Harden.

We understand that Doncic is maybe the best prospect to come out of Europe -- that's fine. But when you compare him to Rubio... well... no one gives a crap if you're a better prospect than a non top-20 PG in the NBA. There's 5-6 players just at the top of the 2017 draft class that are gonna be way better than Rubio.

No need for this attitude. I didn't say Fultz won't have great career, I just said he wouldn't do anything special in Euroleague at this moment. I'm sure you don't expect from Fultz to dominate Nba in his rookie year? It's somehow disrespectful to say some NCAA freshman will dominate Euroleague in his first season. No one before did that and Euroleague is this year with new format, only 16 best teams, much better than before. Euroleague is much nearer to Nba than NCAA to Euroleague. Euroleague is very defense oriented, what is doing Fultz in NCAA is simply impossible. Let's for argument sake say he will come in Real Madrid next week. Here is the roster, http://www.euroleague.net/ /teams/showteam?clubcode=MAD&seasoncode=E2016

Whose minutes will he take?

I'm not sure if it is the same to play for the first team in Euroleague and Europe football and basketball powerhouse Real Madrid and for College who is 9-14 in NCAA? You should someday visit Madrid and see what kind of institution is Real Madrid.

[Bob8]

I'm gonna go out on a limb that if you don't realize the prospect difference between Fultz and AB (pre NBA) then you probably don't watch much american basketball. Which is fine, but when you say "LOL ANTHONY BENNETT GOT CUT IN EUROLEAGUE CLEARLY EUROLEAGUE IS AWESOME" it makes us all shake our heads.

AB was a surprise #1 overall pick in a super weak prospect class. Fultz is the head-and-shoulders #1 pick in possibly one of the best draft classes of all time. AB had a tiny chance to become an All-star level PF. Fultz has a decent shot of becoming James Harden.

We understand that Doncic is maybe the best prospect to come out of Europe -- that's fine. But when you compare him to Rubio... well... no one gives a crap if you're a better prospect than a non top-20 PG in the NBA. There's 5-6 players just at the top of the 2017 draft class that are gonna be way better than Rubio.

No need for this attitude. I didn't say Fultz won't have great career, I just said he wouldn't do anything special in Euroleague at this moment. I'm sure you don't expect from Fultz to dominate Nba in his rookie year? It's somehow disrespectful to say some NCAA freshman will dominate Euroleague in his first season. No one before did that and Euroleague is this year with new format, only 16 best teams, much better than before. Euroleague is much nearer to Nba than NCAA to Euroleague. Euroleague is very defense oriented, what is doing Fultz in NCAA is simply impossible. Let's for argument sake say he will come in Real Madrid next week. Here is the roster, http://www.euroleague.net/ /teams/showteam?clubcode=MAD&seasoncode=E2016

Whose minutes will he take?

I'm not sure if it is the same to play for the first team in Euroleague and Europe football and basketball powerhouse Real Madrid or for College who is 9-14 in NCAA? You should someday visit Madrid and see what kind of institution is Real Madrid.

[peja_the_legend]

Malcolm Delaney was an absolute beast in Euroleague last season.Went to Hawks and now is a so-so back up with bad stats(shooting 27% for 3 down from 40% in Euroleague).See one can play the" Bennet sucks in Euroleague" game in reverse and i dont think the results would be in euroleague favor.What would an NBA fan think of euroleague's level reading the news that Ognen Kuzmic who was waving towels in Warrios bench was Euroleagues January MVP?

As usual euro fans here overrate Euroleague's level.In fact between a mass exodus to NBA because of increasing salary cup(see Rodriguez,Satoransky,Delane,Saric etc) and China luring very good Us players, the level of current euroleague especially in guard positions is as watered down as ever.

[SportsGuy8]

@Sports Geek: Keep in mind that while per40 stats can be a great tool when evaluating a player and calculating actual production for the future when that same player starts getting serious minutes, it doesn't really matter that much when it comes to things like the MVP award. Voters are going to look at actual total production, and while Doncic's minutes have steadily been going up, he's still not playing enough to truly be in MVP conversation ... Maybe if he regularly starts hitting 30mins, otherwise there's just no way someone playing LESS THAN HALF of each game's minutes can be in the conversation.

[Bob8]

Where did you find Spanoulis? Doncic will get rising star award, they will give MVP to Llull if they really need someone from Real. But the main candidates are Nando and Teodosic.

CSKA was the dominant team back then, now is Real Madrid, later it could be Olympiacos or any other. Those votes could change with the final standings. I mentioned Spanoulis just as an example of what having a reputation means, he is always in the talk, no matter how he performs.

Real dominant? They have only one win more. Don't go behind Mirotic12 steps. Cska had big problems with their best players Nando and Teodosic. First Nando missed 8 games and then Teodosic missed 6 games. Now they are both back. Real, Cska, Oly and Fener will battle for first place, anything can happen. And even if Real will, like you say, dominate, they will give the reward to Llull. I like Doncic, but that's how the life in Europe works.

[SportsGuy8]

A good D1 team with a bunch of seniors and a couple lotto prospects could easily hit .250 or .300 in Euroleague play. I've seen some of these teams, it doesn't matter how old you are, a team like last years Nova or two years ago Duke would absolutely slaughter some of these EL teams. You just couldn't defend some of these kids.

I really don't think they could overcome playing vs. strategically sound teams with good team defenses. Their supreme athleticism wouldn't make that much of a difference.

Think about how Team USA started struggling a decade and a half ago in international competition, actually regularly losing games, while still playing with NBA All-Stars. It was only after they went back to the basics and started implementing a serious system, that they started winning/dominating again. And those teams were still full of All-Stars vs. MUCH less talented Euro (& other) teams. Most Euroleague teams are actually BETTER than those national teams that Team USA lost to, mostly because many countries have severely limited pools (basketball-crazed nations are mostly rather tiny), while Euroleague clubs have basically all players at their disposal (with some minor rules/restrictions).

Now think about NCAA teams, strategically and tactically even below those quickly assembled USA teams, not to mention MUCH less talented (a team with maybe 1 FUTURE All-Star vs. a team full of actual All-Stars) ... There are simply obstacles that supreme athleticism alone cannot overcome ... If Team USA with many former lottery picks (all athletic freaks) struggled heavily vs. many tiny nations, what makes you think a team with 1 possible lottery pick (and full of KIDS) could compete vs. PROFESSIONAL Euroleague teams?

[Goon]

Some new info coming out on his new contract. Real Madrid is aware that it will be too hard to keep him until 2020, especially with his rising draft stock. So supposedly it's possible that his release clause could even be triggered by him going high enough in the draft. This would then activate a minimum release clause so he can go to the NBA in 2019, that is now mentioned as the most likely option. Also his salary will rise to "star level" if he does sign a new one, to compensate him for the 1 year he would stay in Europe past the draft.

PS: Can't this Euroleague vs NCAA debate move to another topic? Or simply everyone just don't reply to those that think the Euroleague is trash and that the NCAA is equal or something, just ignore them.