Who's better: Josh Jackson or Andrew Wiggins?

[HeartBreakKid]

Wiggins was a much better prospect and #1 overall. Jackson is not on his level. You guys are predictably prisoners of the moment. Wiggins is putting up 22-4-2 at 21 y/o playing with babies around him. His upside is upper 20s ppg and better peripherals. That's elite and top 10 in the NBA. And Jackson is a better prospect? lmao smh. get a grip guys

Player A per 40
20.8 ppg, 7.1 rbs, 1.9 asts, 1.4 stls, 1.2 blks
44 FG%, 34 3pt%, 77 FT%, 56 TS%
21.4 PER, .170 WS/40, 5.4 OBPM, 3.0 DBPM, 8.5 BPM

Player B per 40
21.5 ppg, 9.4 rbs, 4.0 asts, 2.2 stls, 1.6 blks
49 FG%, 34 3pt%, 54 FT%, 54 TS%
23.9 PER, .179 WS/40, 4.8 OBPM , 5.4 DBPM, 10.2 BPM

I think everyone would look at that and go player B has the superior stats. The only advantage player A has really is FT%. Either than that player B appears to be the much better all around player and two way player.

I think the FT% gives it away but player B is Jackson while player A is Wiggins. Add in the fact Jackson is known for his crazy work ethic and his pitbull mentality on the court while one of Wiggins biggest critiques to this day is his lack of an alpha type mentality on the court. They are the same height, Wiggins has the advantage in wingspan but isnt using it and is still an awful defender. He also has the slight edge athletically over Jackson but Jackson's athleticism will never be looked at as a weakness for him or something that will put a cap on his ceiling, hes probably the 2nd best athlete in this draft behind DSJ.

So I think all the people who were hyping Jackson up to being the better all around prospect are looking just fine right now. Theyre definitely close but I dont think too many people were saying it was lopsided.

okay....Jackson turns 20 y/o in three days. At 20 y/o Wiggins was in his second season in the NBA scoring 20.7 ppg.

Wiggins was a negative impact player his second season. Putting up 20 points on one of the worst teams in the league isn't that great. Josh Jackson could be a losing player in the NBA too.


Andrew Wiggins was not a much better prospect than Josh Jackson, and using the phrase "caught up in the moment" is ironic, since people rated Wiggins high because of a highschool mixtape that went viral on youtube.

Andrew Wiggins was not the highest rated prospect of his draft class, Joel Embiid was. By the time draft day came, it was almost a 50/50 between Wiggins and Parker going #1 overall. There's nothing that infers that Wiggins is a better prospect than Jackson other than he was more famous as an HS and college player, which doesn't necessarily justify his hype (safe to say, people who said he would be the next LBJ or McGrady were not basing their projections on any type of reality).

[Killboard]

Player A per 40
20.8 ppg, 7.1 rbs, 1.9 asts, 1.4 stls, 1.2 blks
44 FG%, 34 3pt%, 77 FT%, 56 TS%
21.4 PER, .170 WS/40, 5.4 OBPM, 3.0 DBPM, 8.5 BPM

Player B per 40
21.5 ppg, 9.4 rbs, 4.0 asts, 2.2 stls, 1.6 blks
49 FG%, 34 3pt%, 54 FT%, 54 TS%
23.9 PER, .179 WS/40, 4.8 OBPM , 5.4 DBPM, 10.2 BPM

I think everyone would look at that and go player B has the superior stats. The only advantage player A has really is FT%. Either than that player B appears to be the much better all around player and two way player.

I think the FT% gives it away but player B is Jackson while player A is Wiggins. Add in the fact Jackson is known for his crazy work ethic and his pitbull mentality on the court while one of Wiggins biggest critiques to this day is his lack of an alpha type mentality on the court. They are the same height, Wiggins has the advantage in wingspan but isnt using it and is still an awful defender. He also has the slight edge athletically over Jackson but Jackson's athleticism will never be looked at as a weakness for him or something that will put a cap on his ceiling, hes probably the 2nd best athlete in this draft behind DSJ.

So I think all the people who were hyping Jackson up to being the better all around prospect are looking just fine right now. Theyre definitely close but I dont think too many people were saying it was lopsided.

okay....Jackson turns 20 y/o in three days. At 20 y/o Wiggins was in his second season in the NBA scoring 20.7 ppg.

Wiggins was a negative impact player his second season. Putting up 20 points on one of the worst teams in the league isn't that great. Josh Jackson could be a losing player in the NBA too.


Andrew Wiggins was not a much better prospect than Josh Jackson, and using the phrase "caught up in the moment" is ironic, since people rated Wiggins high because of a highschool mixtape that went viral on youtube.

Andrew Wiggins was not the highest rated prospect of his draft class, Joel Embiid was. By the time draft day came, it was almost a 50/50 between Wiggins and Parker going #1 overall. There's nothing that infers that Wiggins is a better prospect than Jackson other than he was more famous as an HS and college player, which doesn't necessarily justify his hype (safe to say, people who said he would be the next LBJ or McGrady were not basing their projections on any type of reality).

Wiggins has always been saw like a raw prospect. He was saw like a prospect that would need more time than his peers to figoure it out. Parker and Emiid were more "NBA Ready". The fact he averages 20PPG so early in his career dont change that, that just only means 2 things: 1) The wolves had given him a high usage 2) He is stupidly talented scoring the ball.

Comparing him to JJ: Wiggins hasnt the motor that Jackson has. He hasnt the passing skills/court vision neither. You have two big flaws there. The first is only on him, maybe he someday will be engaged in all quarters/all games and not only when he is playing against all starts. The second is a work in progress, he made strides handling the ball this season, but he will need at least 2 or 3 more seasons to be a realiable ball handler.

Jackson has his own, he cant shoot. Due that, his fit in a roster is harder (not impossible by any means). That could change his offensive output, because usually you cant open lanes so easily when your opponents wont respect your drive, and are grown men. He also is Old as F for a freshman.

Said that, I will say Jackson has a better/more secute floor, but Wiggins has higher potential (which overstimated for many people).

[Duke4life831]

Said that, I will say Jackson has a better/more secute floor, but Wiggins has higher potential (which overstimated for many people).

Is his potential really higher though? You can make the argument that Jackson is the better rebounder, facilitator, defender, moves better off the ball, better handles and finishes better around the rim. And its not like Jackson is a horrific shooter, ya he is a bad FT shooter but he is shooting 35% from 3 so far this year (42% in conference play) which is pretty solid. Hes always been an inconsistent shooter but has always shown promise with his shooting touch. And its not like Wiggins has shown to be a great scorer either, hes putting up 22 points but on 18 shots a game and a TS% of 53%. He just plays on a team that allows him to put up a ton of shots.

Im just missing why Wiggins has the higher ceiling. What if Jackson can become a 3pt shooter where he shoots around 35-38% from 3? He would be a phenomenal player and would probably be better than Wiggins at every aspect of the game and ya Wiggins has the edge on him athletically but Jackson is still an elite athlete. I give Jackson the edge on potential because hes already good at so many things.

[CptCrunch]

Pre-draft, Wiggins for me was a rich man's Rudy Gay. Now, he looks to be a less efficient Kevin Martin.

Josh Jackson projects based on skillet to be a rich man's Iguodala. He is a better prospect.

[Killboard]

Said that, I will say Jackson has a better/more secute floor, but Wiggins has higher potential (which overstimated for many people).

Is his potential really higher though? You can make the argument that Jackson is the better rebounder, facilitator, defender, moves better off the ball, better handles and finishes better around the rim. And its not like Jackson is a horrific shooter, ya he is a bad FT shooter but he is shooting 35% from 3 so far this year (42% in conference play) which is pretty solid. Hes always been an inconsistent shooter but has always shown promise with his shooting touch. And its not like Wiggins has shown to be a great scorer either, hes putting up 22 points but on 18 shots a game and a TS% of 53%. He just plays on a team that allows him to put up a ton of shots.

Im just missing why Wiggins has the higher ceiling. What if Jackson can become a 3pt shooter where he shoots around 35-38% from 3? He would be a phenomenal player and would probably be better than Wiggins at every aspect of the game and ya Wiggins has the edge on him athletically but Jackson is still an elite athlete. I give Jackson the edge on potential because hes already good at so many things.

Well, that's my opinion. Jackson is shooting a 35% of his 3's, but 86.4% are assisted. Isnt a bad thing per se, but that means he is shooting with his feet set. Still the 3pt NBA distance is a hard step for some shooters. Wiggins is a very good shooter off the dribble, I dont think Jackson will ever become that. When you are so athletically gifted and can shoot from the dribble like that, you are basically unstoppable. The current problem with Wiggins is his lack of courtvision, teams are always packing the paint/trapping him in P&R and he cant make the reads just yet. His potential take into account that he will evolve in that department down the road.

But 21 YO players that score over 20PPG with 53 TS% arent born on trees. Specially when they have the lenght/quickness to be successful defenders. Wiggins is forced to play the 3 against dudes over 230+ pounds when he would be matched up against SG on defense. If you compare Wiggins and Melo 3rd season you will see similarities in scoring department. Melo was better getting at the line (Wiggins has regressed-or the refs dont like him anyome-almost .100 from last year), but Wiggins is a better 3pt shooter. His other stats arent close however, and like I said earlier, his lack of motor is only on him, and this doesnt count against his potential.

[Duke4life831]

Said that, I will say Jackson has a better/more secute floor, but Wiggins has higher potential (which overstimated for many people).

Is his potential really higher though? You can make the argument that Jackson is the better rebounder, facilitator, defender, moves better off the ball, better handles and finishes better around the rim. And its not like Jackson is a horrific shooter, ya he is a bad FT shooter but he is shooting 35% from 3 so far this year (42% in conference play) which is pretty solid. Hes always been an inconsistent shooter but has always shown promise with his shooting touch. And its not like Wiggins has shown to be a great scorer either, hes putting up 22 points but on 18 shots a game and a TS% of 53%. He just plays on a team that allows him to put up a ton of shots.

Im just missing why Wiggins has the higher ceiling. What if Jackson can become a 3pt shooter where he shoots around 35-38% from 3? He would be a phenomenal player and would probably be better than Wiggins at every aspect of the game and ya Wiggins has the edge on him athletically but Jackson is still an elite athlete. I give Jackson the edge on potential because hes already good at so many things.

Well, that's my opinion. Jackson is shooting a 35% of his 3's, but 86.4% are assisted. Isnt a bad thing per se, but that means he is shooting with his feet set. Still the 3pt NBA distance is a hard step for some shooters. Wiggins is a very good shooter off the dribble, I dont think Jackson will ever become that. When you are so athletically gifted and can shoot from the dribble like that, you are basically unstoppable. The current problem with Wiggins is his lack of courtvision, teams are always packing the paint/trapping him in P&R and he cant make the reads just yet. His potential take into account that he will evolve in that department down the road.

But 21 YO players that score over 20PPG with 53 TS% arent born on trees. Specially when they have the lenght/quickness to be successful defenders. Wiggins is forced to play the 3 against dudes over 230+ pounds when he would be matched up against SG on defense. If you compare Wiggins and Melo 3rd season you will see similarities in scoring department. Melo was better getting at the line (Wiggins has regressed-or the refs dont like him anyome-almost .100 from last year), but Wiggins is a better 3pt shooter. His other stats arent close however, and like I said earlier, his lack of motor is only on him, and this doesnt count against his potential.

Wiggins shot 33% on his 2pt jumpers and was assisted on 21% of them when he was at KU. Jackson is shooting 38% on his 2pt jumpers while being assisted on 23% of them. So I can make the argument Jackson's ability to shoot off the dribble in the mid range shows more potential than Wiggins did while at KU and shooting off the dribble in the mid range game is a much more used thing than taking a 3 off the dribble. Then add in the fact that Jackson is shooting 5% better at the rim while being assisted 10% less on shots at the rim shows a higher ability to attack the rim and finish compared to Wiggins. Im also fine with Jackson not taking too many 3s off the dribble, Kevin Durant this year has 80% of his 3s assisted on. A 3 point shot off the dribble is maybe a good shot for maybe 5 guys in the NBA.

[Killboard]

Is his potential really higher though? You can make the argument that Jackson is the better rebounder, facilitator, defender, moves better off the ball, better handles and finishes better around the rim. And its not like Jackson is a horrific shooter, ya he is a bad FT shooter but he is shooting 35% from 3 so far this year (42% in conference play) which is pretty solid. Hes always been an inconsistent shooter but has always shown promise with his shooting touch. And its not like Wiggins has shown to be a great scorer either, hes putting up 22 points but on 18 shots a game and a TS% of 53%. He just plays on a team that allows him to put up a ton of shots.

Im just missing why Wiggins has the higher ceiling. What if Jackson can become a 3pt shooter where he shoots around 35-38% from 3? He would be a phenomenal player and would probably be better than Wiggins at every aspect of the game and ya Wiggins has the edge on him athletically but Jackson is still an elite athlete. I give Jackson the edge on potential because hes already good at so many things.

Well, that's my opinion. Jackson is shooting a 35% of his 3's, but 86.4% are assisted. Isnt a bad thing per se, but that means he is shooting with his feet set. Still the 3pt NBA distance is a hard step for some shooters. Wiggins is a very good shooter off the dribble, I dont think Jackson will ever become that. When you are so athletically gifted and can shoot from the dribble like that, you are basically unstoppable. The current problem with Wiggins is his lack of courtvision, teams are always packing the paint/trapping him in P&R and he cant make the reads just yet. His potential take into account that he will evolve in that department down the road.

But 21 YO players that score over 20PPG with 53 TS% arent born on trees. Specially when they have the lenght/quickness to be successful defenders. Wiggins is forced to play the 3 against dudes over 230+ pounds when he would be matched up against SG on defense. If you compare Wiggins and Melo 3rd season you will see similarities in scoring department. Melo was better getting at the line (Wiggins has regressed-or the refs dont like him anyome-almost .100 from last year), but Wiggins is a better 3pt shooter. His other stats arent close however, and like I said earlier, his lack of motor is only on him, and this doesnt count against his potential.

Wiggins shot 33% on his 2pt jumpers and was assisted on 21% of them when he was at KU. Jackson is shooting 38% on his 2pt jumpers while being assisted on 23% of them. So I can make the argument Jackson's ability to shoot off the dribble in the mid range shows more potential than Wiggins did while at KU and shooting off the dribble in the mid range game is a much more used thing than taking a 3 off the dribble. Then add in the fact that Jackson is shooting 5% better at the rim while being assisted 10% less on shots at the rim shows a higher ability to attack the rim and finish compared to Wiggins. Im also fine with Jackson not taking too many 3s off the dribble, Kevin Durant this year has 80% of his 3s assisted on. A 3 point shot off the dribble is maybe a good shot for maybe 5 guys in the NBA.

Wiggins is shooting 39.9% when he takes 3-6 dribbles, and 0.375% on his jumpshots, 0.590 on layups, and 38.7 on his pull up jumpers outside 10 feet this season, while carrying the offensive load and getting focused by the opposite D. I would be surprised if Jackson can achieve that in his second season in the NBA, when he will have the same age Wiggins has now.

The 3pt shooting off the dribble is a bad shot, but if the opponents must respect it because you can make it a good clip, means you can attack the closeouts, which is the reason why is a valuable tool to have.

[Goudelock]

Watch on YouTube

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

I like Josh Jackson more because he's bigger, smarter and has a better motor. But I am starting to worry about his finishing. He throws up a lot of stuff around the basket that just won't fly in the NBA.

[SmartWentCrazy]

I like Josh Jackson more because he's bigger, smarter and has a better motor. But I am starting to worry about his finishing. He throws up a lot of stuff around the basket that just won't fly in the NBA.

He's shooting 68.5% at the rim, and over 40% of his shots are at the rim. His ability to finish is a serious strength, not a weakness.

[sikma42]

Something about Jacksons attack mentality reminds me of Spreewell.


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[The-Power]

Jackson is the type of player that will find a way to contribute to wins in whatever way works for him on a given night. Wiggins is the type of player that has to hope that his way works in order to contribute to wins.

Wiggins is a better shooter but Jackson's motor, consistent defense and playmaking - seriously, his handles are a huge advantage over Wiggins - almost guarantees a player that will have a consistent impact in the NBA. Reaching his ceiling is strongly dependent on being a solid and reliable shooter but I'd roll the dice with Jackson and feel good about the floor of production I get.

[Big_C_KU]

I like Josh Jackson more because he's bigger, smarter and has a better motor. But I am starting to worry about his finishing. He throws up a lot of stuff around the basket that just won't fly in the NBA.

He's shooting 68.5% at the rim, and over 40% of his shots are at the rim. His ability to finish is a serious strength, not a weakness.

Jackson finishing at the rim is very strong. If you've only seen the last 2 games then yeah his finishing looks rough. He's missed more layups the last 2 games than he probably missed all year. He has some strong finishing moves such as up and insets and good with angles. I do think he could improve his finishing through contact but a lot of that will come with strength and experience.

[Killboard]

Wiggins averaged 28.8 points, 51.4 FG%, 36.0 3PT%, 6.5 FTA, 3.8 REB, 2.3 APG, 1.8 Stl on 12 games (5-7), including back to back 40 point games (only Iverson, Lebron, Durant and him did that before turn 22 years old.) and is currently in a 18 game-streak scoring 20 points or more (longest active streak at the moment in the NBA).

Isnt nothing againt JJ, but you better know Wiggins current development before choose your hill.

[CptCrunch]

Wiggins averaged 28.8 points, 51.4 FG%, 36.0 3PT%, 6.5 FTA, 3.8 REB, 2.3 APG, 1.8 Stl on 12 games (5-7), including back to back 40 point games (only Iverson, Lebron, Durant and him did that before turn 22 years old.) and is currently in a 18 game-streak scoring 20 points or more (longest active streak at the moment in the NBA).

Isnt nothing againt JJ, but you better know Wiggins current development before choose your hill.

1. You are missing the point. This is about JJ vs Wiggins pre-draft, as prospect in college.

2. Despite putting up astronomical scoring stats, his impact is still extremely mediocre based on any and all advanced stats.

[Killboard]

Wiggins averaged 28.8 points, 51.4 FG%, 36.0 3PT%, 6.5 FTA, 3.8 REB, 2.3 APG, 1.8 Stl on 12 games (5-7), including back to back 40 point games (only Iverson, Lebron, Durant and him did that before turn 22 years old.) and is currently in a 18 game-streak scoring 20 points or more (longest active streak at the moment in the NBA).

Isnt nothing againt JJ, but you better know Wiggins current development before choose your hill.

1. You are missing the point. This is about JJ vs Wiggins pre-draft, as prospect in college.

2. Despite putting up astronomical scoring stats, his impact is still extremely mediocre based on any and all advanced stats.

1. While you can have a point, people claimed Wiggins was a very raw prospect and that he wouldnt be the most NBA ready. The guy (despite his elite atlethicism and amazing footwork in the post) was extremely unpolished coming to the NBA. You can make a case for JJ to get better at the pace that Wiggins did up being in the league, but the fact is that JJ has a more well rounded game than Wiggins at the same stage (as 1 more year than typical freshmans) and that isnt propelling his stats to be in a different ballpark than Wiggins (other than passing). So, I would conclude Wiggins had the same kind of raw producion while being 1 year younger and pretty unpolished, which make his ceiling higher IMO. The current stats fits that narrative pretty well.


2. I would like to see Wiggins in a matured team, and not running with 2 other 21 year old 35 MPG to isolate his numbers. He has very bad defensive rebounding stats (part of which is by design given that he is trying to run the floor defering rebounds to KAT, Dieng and Rubio) and that has pretty heavy impact on almost every defensive advanced stat.

As for offense, he has 1.60 ORPM, which is the same as Paul George the current season, while playing 37 MPG.

But I would take Wins/Loses as the most glaring stat about Wiggins: Currently the wolves are 3 games behind Denver and 1/2 behind Portland. While both of those teams has a lot of veterans and depth (denver) or a maxed out (Portland), the Wolves depend on Wiggins night in and night out, and he is delivering in a team without bench and without mature scorers.

[eagereyez]

A 1.60 ORPM that is offset by his hugely negative DRPM.

[Killboard]

A 1.60 ORPM that is offset by his hugely negative DRPM.

DRPM weight rebounds a lot, just as any other defensive advanced stat, and the Wolves are bad in defense as a whole.
Is hard to distinguish who the fault is when you have 3 21 YO players beside him at all times and a bench full of scrubbs.
To know exactly where Wiggins is defensively you would put him besides competent defenders. Maybe that could happen as soon as next season. But I know something for sure, he is a lot better defending SG than SF, given his current weight and strenght.

He could not be a positive player on Defense (which I think is becoming as a late) but definetly he isnt the worst NBA defender in his position, as DRPM weights.

[CptCrunch]

A 1.60 ORPM that is offset by his hugely negative DRPM.

DRPM weight rebounds a lot, just as any other defensive advanced stat, and the Wolves are bad in defense as a whole.
Is hard to distinguish who the fault is when you have 3 21 YO players beside him at all times and a bench full of scrubbs.
To know exactly where Wiggins is defensively you would put him besides competent defenders. Maybe that could happen as soon as next season. But I know something for sure, he is a lot better defending SG than SF, given his current weight and strenght.

He could not be a positive player on Defense (which I think is becoming as a late) but definetly he isnt the worst NBA defender in his position, as DRPM weights.

Bruh, there isn't a single advanced stat that paints Wiggins (especially his defense in a positive light).

Let's look at his camera tracked defensive percentages. Note that these are not 'advanced stats'. There are merely raw stats that we can't used to collect without the aid of cameras and computers.

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/203952/defense-dash/

The dude allows his man to shoot 5.2%! more from 2's, over 2.8% more overall.

Let's look at an SF actually good at defense Draymond

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/203110/defense-dash/

Let's look at who I think should be DPOY, Gobert.

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/203497/defense-dash/

[eagereyez]

A 1.60 ORPM that is offset by his hugely negative DRPM.

DRPM weight rebounds a lot, just as any other defensive advanced stat, and the Wolves are bad in defense as a whole.
Is hard to distinguish who the fault is when you have 3 21 YO players beside him at all times and a bench full of scrubbs.
To know exactly where Wiggins is defensively you would put him besides competent defenders. Maybe that could happen as soon as next season. But I know something for sure, he is a lot better defending SG than SF, given his current weight and strenght.

He could not be a positive player on Defense (which I think is becoming as a late) but definetly he isnt the worst NBA defender in his position, as DRPM weights.

Where did you find that DRPM weighs rebounds? RPM doesn't use box score stats. It uses play by play data. It's from the same family of stats as +/-. Maybe you're confusing DRPM with DBPM.