Moderators: nate33, montestewart, LyricalRico
nate33 wrote:Dark Faze wrote:Trade checker works out for Nicholson/Burke for Faried.
Can't do it. It causes huge luxtax ramifications next year.
deneem4 wrote:Kyle o'quinn can be our draymond...
15/13/3ast/3blocks 54% TS per 36 (also shot 27% on 3s 1 season)
114/105 ratings
With that being said 2 trades to make it happen
Top 20 pro 17 1st for oquinn
Don't be mad at me for this next 1
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=jlhwxs2
And New York get our 2nd
stevemcqueen1 wrote:I'm against any trade that brings in bigs to try and block Jason Smith. In fact, I'm for trading Gortat, Morris, and Mahinmi for guards so that we can get MORE Jason Smith. With him we really only need the one big.
Donkey McDonkerton wrote:stevemcqueen1 wrote:I'm against any trade that brings in bigs to try and block Jason Smith. In fact, I'm for trading Gortat, Morris, and Mahinmi for guards so that we can get MORE Jason Smith. With him we really only need the one big.
I just fixed our bench AND got Smith in the starting lineup! Would NY throw in that super tall lanky white dude?
Gortat, Morris, Mahinimi, Burke and #1 for Melo, Noah & Rose. Rose can have his super team coming off the bench.
Wall/Rose
Beal/Sat
Porter/KellyO
J.Smith/Melo
Noah/Ochefu
payitforward wrote:deneem4 wrote:Kyle o'quinn can be our draymond...
15/13/3ast/3blocks 54% TS per 36 (also shot 27% on 3s 1 season)
114/105 ratings
With that being said 2 trades to make it happen
Top 20 pro 17 1st for oquinn
Don't be mad at me for this next 1
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=jlhwxs2
And New York get our 2nd
As everybody here knows, I am high on O'Quinn -- wanted him w/ our wasted late '12 R2 pick. Comparing him to Draymond is a little much, deneem, but he's good & I'd love to have him. But I'm not ready to give a R1 pick for him.
Your other trade: O'Quinn for Burke is a steal, & I don't mind Jennings in this deal, because he's expiring (with O'Quinn we don't need GOAT Smith). Including Noah for Mahinmi is neither here nor there: one big risk for another big risk. W/o that part I do it in a minute. But... would NY do it?
Donkey McDonkerton wrote:We could probably bring Jan V. back after that too.
Ruzious wrote:Donkey McDonkerton wrote:We could probably bring Jan V. back after that too.
Only if we can't get Chris Singleton.
bealwithit wrote:Ruzious wrote:Donkey McDonkerton wrote:We could probably bring Jan V. back after that too.
Only if we can't get Chris Singleton.
I just thought of the perfect solution for our backup PG spot. It's a little crazy, but stick with me here.
Eric Maynor.
stevemcqueen1 wrote:I like the idea of bringing Vesely back and having him learn from Jason Smith. It's unfortunate timing for Vesely that he washed out of the NBA before he got the chance to play with Smith. You know he wouldn't have been afraid of the FT line if some of JSmith's immense swagger had rubbed off on him.
bealwithit wrote:gambitx777 wrote:long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:So, who would you all be ok with for our unprotected first?
Let's assemble the list... and no, we're not getting Klay Thompson. Who is realistic that would be a good value?
I'll start. Would the Suns part with Bledsoe? Would he get us over the hump?
well witch pick. currently its probably possible to trade 2017 2018 2019 and 2020 (last one being a stretch).
IDK, its a tricky market, plumlee was moved for nothing, so the perceived negative value of our filler, nicholson and mahinmi is not as bad as one would think. Korver (a former all star, 35 year old, sharp shooter on a one year deal) went for a heavily protected 2019 pick.
So that gives you a little idea of where the market is.
I don't think Bledsoe is going to be moved for a 2017 first and they probably won't take the filler we have for him. Hes a starting PG and I don't think he wants to be in johns shadow again, so that might cause issues in the locker room. It really depends on the deal and who all is involved and the situation. I think any one on Orlando could be had for a first of any kind. You might be able to use a 2019 or 2018 to get some guys from denver, The pistons, I think zach randolph and vince carter for mahinmi and a 2019 or 2018 first is very possible. Not a lot of PG's that ar out there are worth trading for. Lou williams is one I would be ok with dumping a first on, barton too but hes a 2. Maybe you could pull something off with a mahinmi and a 2019 for Rondo and portis, but Rando might not buy in and you risk fracturing the locker room.
Woo, dude, I appreciate your activeness in this thread but at least be somewhat realistic. Both of those guys are key to what Memphis does... and they are a playoff team. Also, Orlando is trying to get a star back for Vuc/Ibaka etc., they don't want a 1st and trash, which is all we can offer. Just think a bit more before shooting off more and more dart throw trade ideas.
gambitx777 wrote:bealwithit wrote:gambitx777 wrote:well witch pick. currently its probably possible to trade 2017 2018 2019 and 2020 (last one being a stretch).
IDK, its a tricky market, plumlee was moved for nothing, so the perceived negative value of our filler, nicholson and mahinmi is not as bad as one would think. Korver (a former all star, 35 year old, sharp shooter on a one year deal) went for a heavily protected 2019 pick.
So that gives you a little idea of where the market is.
I don't think Bledsoe is going to be moved for a 2017 first and they probably won't take the filler we have for him. Hes a starting PG and I don't think he wants to be in johns shadow again, so that might cause issues in the locker room. It really depends on the deal and who all is involved and the situation. I think any one on Orlando could be had for a first of any kind. You might be able to use a 2019 or 2018 to get some guys from denver, The pistons, I think zach randolph and vince carter for mahinmi and a 2019 or 2018 first is very possible. Not a lot of PG's that ar out there are worth trading for. Lou williams is one I would be ok with dumping a first on, barton too but hes a 2. Maybe you could pull something off with a mahinmi and a 2019 for Rondo and portis, but Rando might not buy in and you risk fracturing the locker room.
Woo, dude, I appreciate your activeness in this thread but at least be somewhat realistic. Both of those guys are key to what Memphis does... and they are a playoff team. Also, Orlando is trying to get a star back for Vuc/Ibaka etc., they don't want a 1st and trash, which is all we can offer. Just think a bit more before shooting off more and more dart throw trade ideas.
you say i need to think more? obviously you need to do more reading and research. orlando is desperate to move ibaka and a few others to try and save face over loosing so many assets on ibaka, they are not looking for a star. do some reading its been reported out all over the place for months. randolph is a 35 year old undersized, over weight, PF in decline, while he is still effective he is only being played about 24 minutes a game and is probably better suited for a high level bench role at this point in his carer, not to mention, he is an injury risk and they have younger options at pf on the team. Carter is a 40 something year old SG who plays less that randolph, enough said. They would be good adds to our horrible bench and in reality menphis won't miss them too much. Plus neither of them are likely to be back next year and trading two pieces that are not part of their future for a first and a player of need. The need depth at center because they don't currently have that. Now if you had said that they would be to shy on mahinmi because of his knees and their recent injury history, then you have a proper counter point. You can say my posts are stupid all you want. you are entitled to your opinion. but don't ever insinuate that i dont' "think" or do my research!
bealwithit wrote:gambitx777 wrote:bealwithit wrote:Woo, dude, I appreciate your activeness in this thread but at least be somewhat realistic. Both of those guys are key to what Memphis does... and they are a playoff team. Also, Orlando is trying to get a star back for Vuc/Ibaka etc., they don't want a 1st and trash, which is all we can offer. Just think a bit more before shooting off more and more dart throw trade ideas.
you say i need to think more? obviously you need to do more reading and research. orlando is desperate to move ibaka and a few others to try and save face over loosing so many assets on ibaka, they are not looking for a star. do some reading its been reported out all over the place for months. randolph is a 35 year old undersized, over weight, PF in decline, while he is still effective he is only being played about 24 minutes a game and is probably better suited for a high level bench role at this point in his carer, not to mention, he is an injury risk and they have younger options at pf on the team. Carter is a 40 something year old SG who plays less that randolph, enough said. They would be good adds to our horrible bench and in reality menphis won't miss them too much. Plus neither of them are likely to be back next year and trading two pieces that are not part of their future for a first and a player of need. The need depth at center because they don't currently have that. Now if you had said that they would be to shy on mahinmi because of his knees and their recent injury history, then you have a proper counter point. You can say my posts are stupid all you want. you are entitled to your opinion. but don't ever insinuate that i dont' "think" or do my research!
Not sure why you took this so personally. I even complimented your activity in this thread, I read it everyday and you making new posts consistently keeps it as something to read. I never insinuated that you are stupid, I simply just think you're not being totally realistic here and not considering the other team's side of the deal and how it impacts their team. If you really, truly think Memphis is going to be trading Z-Bo and Carter to us for Ian Mahinmi and a late 1st round pick that they can't use until a year or two from now... then there's not much I can say to you then. Carry on and learn to take criticism better.
We don't have many valuable assets that we would/should give up. Otto and Oubre are about the only decent assets we have to give up and both are pretty much off limits at this stage unless someone like Boogie was up for grabs. A late 1st is not worth very much. It's nice for teams that aren't making the playoffs to have another pick, but its actual value isn't as much as something like Oubre. In most of the deals outlined in this thread our end of the bargain is usually our 1st and a garbage contract like Nicholson + Burke. This is also the reason most of the guys discussed in this thread are people like Lou Williams, Will Barton, PJ Tucker... decent bench guys that can be had for a package like I just laid out. Not borderline starters like Vuc/Ibaka that have decent value or players that are very important to their teams like Carter and Z-Bo.
The Magic are not going to be a playoff team. Vuc, Ibaka, and Jeff Green are up for grabs. (spoilering this so this post doesn't come out SUPER LONG)Spoiler:
As that report says, they are overvaluing these players, but that does not automatically mean they will settle for what we have to offer. Now Vuc is probably out of the question since he has the most value here considering his age and talent level. Ibaka could MAYBE be had for our 2017 first if they couldn't find a pick that was any higher and they'd have to take back Nicholson a useless NBA player... who they just let walk to us. Now he'd back in Orlando. On a terrible contract. Woo-hoo. Magic fans are practically salivating reading this. Jeff Green is probably the most realistic option here, but I don't like the fit considering we need a defensive/rebounding boost to make up for Kieff's deficiencies and Green isn't necessarily that kind of PF. So there's that.
Now Memphis. Why would Memphis who I once again emphasize are a playoff team, get rid of two guys who produce for them for a defensive center who hasn't played all season and a future late 1st? Why are you downplaying the impact Carter still makes for them? He just had a night of 7 pts, 6 rebs, 2 ast and 4 blks. He has transformed himself into a pretty consistent three point shooter on a team that doesn't make many threes. Z-Bo takes the third most shots per game on their team and *surprise* actually plays in that "high level bench role" (6th man the term you're looking for I guess?) for them already... why would they get rid of him? They aren't tanking, so the two of them possibly not being back next year doesn't mean much. They're going to make the playoffs. Their bench would be strapped and they'd lose two huge locker room leaders. Z-Bo is a Memphis staple and Carter has an invaluable amount of NBA experience... think Paul Pierce's impact on us. This is what I meant when I simply just asked to think about these trades more. Just try to put yourself in a Grizzlies fan's shoes on that one for example. I'd be furious.
Now I'm not trying to make a mountain out of a molehill here, because hey, I guess you were just brainstorming ideas. I'm just a bit floored you don't seem to see why the Grizzlies wouldn't do that. If they trade both of those guys at the deadline, feel free to take an extremely large dump on my face and I will admit I was wrong.
I'll leave you alone now. Keep doin' your thing I guess. Hope you don't take this post personally either.
gambitx777 wrote:bealwithit wrote:gambitx777 wrote:you say i need to think more? obviously you need to do more reading and research. orlando is desperate to move ibaka and a few others to try and save face over loosing so many assets on ibaka, they are not looking for a star. do some reading its been reported out all over the place for months. randolph is a 35 year old undersized, over weight, PF in decline, while he is still effective he is only being played about 24 minutes a game and is probably better suited for a high level bench role at this point in his carer, not to mention, he is an injury risk and they have younger options at pf on the team. Carter is a 40 something year old SG who plays less that randolph, enough said. They would be good adds to our horrible bench and in reality menphis won't miss them too much. Plus neither of them are likely to be back next year and trading two pieces that are not part of their future for a first and a player of need. The need depth at center because they don't currently have that. Now if you had said that they would be to shy on mahinmi because of his knees and their recent injury history, then you have a proper counter point. You can say my posts are stupid all you want. you are entitled to your opinion. but don't ever insinuate that i dont' "think" or do my research!
Not sure why you took this so personally. I even complimented your activity in this thread, I read it everyday and you making new posts consistently keeps it as something to read. I never insinuated that you are stupid, I simply just think you're not being totally realistic here and not considering the other team's side of the deal and how it impacts their team. If you really, truly think Memphis is going to be trading Z-Bo and Carter to us for Ian Mahinmi and a late 1st round pick that they can't use until a year or two from now... then there's not much I can say to you then. Carry on and learn to take criticism better.
We don't have many valuable assets that we would/should give up. Otto and Oubre are about the only decent assets we have to give up and both are pretty much off limits at this stage unless someone like Boogie was up for grabs. A late 1st is not worth very much. It's nice for teams that aren't making the playoffs to have another pick, but its actual value isn't as much as something like Oubre. In most of the deals outlined in this thread our end of the bargain is usually our 1st and a garbage contract like Nicholson + Burke. This is also the reason most of the guys discussed in this thread are people like Lou Williams, Will Barton, PJ Tucker... decent bench guys that can be had for a package like I just laid out. Not borderline starters like Vuc/Ibaka that have decent value or players that are very important to their teams like Carter and Z-Bo.
The Magic are not going to be a playoff team. Vuc, Ibaka, and Jeff Green are up for grabs. (spoilering this so this post doesn't come out SUPER LONG)Spoiler:
As that report says, they are overvaluing these players, but that does not automatically mean they will settle for what we have to offer. Now Vuc is probably out of the question since he has the most value here considering his age and talent level. Ibaka could MAYBE be had for our 2017 first if they couldn't find a pick that was any higher and they'd have to take back Nicholson a useless NBA player... who they just let walk to us. Now he'd back in Orlando. On a terrible contract. Woo-hoo. Magic fans are practically salivating reading this. Jeff Green is probably the most realistic option here, but I don't like the fit considering we need a defensive/rebounding boost to make up for Kieff's deficiencies and Green isn't necessarily that kind of PF. So there's that.
Now Memphis. Why would Memphis who I once again emphasize are a playoff team, get rid of two guys who produce for them for a defensive center who hasn't played all season and a future late 1st? Why are you downplaying the impact Carter still makes for them? He just had a night of 7 pts, 6 rebs, 2 ast and 4 blks. He has transformed himself into a pretty consistent three point shooter on a team that doesn't make many threes. Z-Bo takes the third most shots per game on their team and *surprise* actually plays in that "high level bench role" (6th man the term you're looking for I guess?) for them already... why would they get rid of him? They aren't tanking, so the two of them possibly not being back next year doesn't mean much. They're going to make the playoffs. Their bench would be strapped and they'd lose two huge locker room leaders. Z-Bo is a Memphis staple and Carter has an invaluable amount of NBA experience... think Paul Pierce's impact on us. This is what I meant when I simply just asked to think about these trades more. Just try to put yourself in a Grizzlies fan's shoes on that one for example. I'd be furious.
Now I'm not trying to make a mountain out of a molehill here, because hey, I guess you were just brainstorming ideas. I'm just a bit floored you don't seem to see why the Grizzlies wouldn't do that. If they trade both of those guys at the deadline, feel free to take an extremely large dump on my face and I will admit I was wrong.
I'll leave you alone now. Keep doin' your thing I guess. Hope you don't take this post personally either.
To be fair I don't think the griz are shopping them, but if you offer a first round pick and productive bench player at a position of need for a 35 year old and a 40 year old on one year deals who you are loosing at the end of the year any way and in theory could just resign in the summer any way. I doubt they say no to that. Ibaka also is not valuable considering he is leaving no matter what at the end of the year. Orlando would be stupid not to start off asking high because they are shopping these guy why not ask for the moon and see how far you have to drop the price. They will not get a star for them, maybe a disgruntled star or problem child but they probably won't get back what they put into ibaka. They are desperate and it will show at the deadline when they trade ibaka for what ever they can get, cuz it beats giving up young assets for nothing when he leaves.
bealwithit wrote:So now that we've broken it down, it seems Ibaka is the best target here. However, he is only on a one year deal, so would it be worth it? That can be discussed by others. But in the trade machine, I got a couple trades that work. EDIT: I don't think the Magic would actually take these deals because I believe they'll get better offers. But these are the ways we could do it.
WAS: Nicholson, Smith, 2017 1st
ORL: Ibaka (possibly also include Watson in this deal considering Smith is a better player than Burke?)
Losing Smith and the 1st for one year of Ibaka hurts, but this is what we've gotta deal with.
or
WAS: Nicholson, Burke, 2017 1st and possible 2nd thrown
ORL: Ibaka, CJ Watson
Keeps Smith and gives us complete PF depth. Team would be looking real nice. Gives us a dependable backup PG in Watson. Probably would have to throw in that 2nd considering Burke is almost as unplayable as Nichsolson
Me personally, I'd stay away from Ibaka because of him just being a half season rental. In addition there was a report today that the Rockets are interested in nabbing him and I'm not trying to get into a bidding war for Ibaka, especially since Harden is probably pushing management to reunite with him. (Also those weird persistent questions about how old Ibaka actually is?) I'm sure someone like nate would know for sure but considering Otto's impending max deal we couldn't afford to re-sign him and I've shifted to the camp of keeping our 2017 1st considering that cap situation. He'd definitely help us in the playoffs though despite his overall decline.
Watson is actually a guy I have interest in though. Obviously he'd be quite cheap since he's 32 and actually has 2 years left on his deal. He could probably be had for a 2nd and Burke alone, which Watson for Burke straight up works in the trade checker. He's had some very good games recently, dropping two 18-point games and a 15-point game. Not shooting well from three on the season but recently has been decent. Not sure how he is on the defensive end, but he's a vet so I'm assuming he can hold his own. I also remember him playing well for the Pacers. Obviously wouldn't be the long term answer at backup PG and yet another band-aid for a position that's becoming a bit of a revolving door for us, but I also trust Brooks in his development of Sato to possibly take over that role once Watson's deal is up.