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The Trade Thread II

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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#501 » by Skin » Thu Feb 9, 2017 1:17 am

axl_c_cool wrote:
Skin wrote:
axl_c_cool wrote:

Under the current salary cap 30M isn't what it was last year and it won't be what it is this year. I'm with Skin, if we know he has serious interest we need to keep him, our current situation we need to sign him at a premium. The questions are though

- Will he sign 4-5 years? or a 2 year player option
- What does it mean for AG at PF/SF
- What will we do with Vucevic and Biyombo, we can't keep all 3


If we don't have assurances I'm expecting Ibaka to be traded, it's too much of a risk for Hennigan to lose him for nothing. If we have assurances, no matter the price, I'm expecting Biyombo, Vucevic, Gordon, Payton, and Fournier to all be available. Biyombo would likely be Rob's ideal trade piece so he can put Ibaka and Vucevic next to each other. Gordon might be available for the right player and also because PF will be locked up if we resign Serge. Fournier and Payton are complimentary players (at present) and don't play well together, as well as the signing of Ibaka would leave us with PG/SG/SF as the only real positions we can upgrade and find a star at.


My personal preference would be to

A) Trade pieces outside of Gordon/Payton/Hezonja for a 'star'/Allstar level talent
B) Trade the same pieces for young players and picks and tank


The next 2 weeks are going to be very interesting for the Magic!

- Will he sign 4-5 years? or a 2 year player option

He'll either sign with us for 5 years because he wants to get as much money as he can OR he will sign for 4 years with a contender who can pay him the Max or close to it. The dark horse option is that he goes back to OKC which would be a genius plan, actually.

- What does it mean for AG at PF/SF

If Ibaka leaves, AG will get more minutes at PF. If Ibaka stays, AG could end up being a 6th man (finding minutes between SF and PF). His time as a starter at SF could be very short lived. The only way out of that is him taking a big step forward in his game, but I don't see the true inner desire.

- What will we do with Vucevic and Biyombo, we can't keep all 3.

We can keep all 3. But we should trade Vuc. He's the black cat. We'll never really win relying on him.



What don't you see you Gordon, I see it with him to be an Allstar, just not a superstar. He's so young and improved a lot this season


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Just my guesses.

My heart tells me to keep believing in AG because he is so young, but my brain says, give it up... he lacks the killer instinct. I've never been one to pin my hopes on AG becoming a good shooter, but I was most DEFINITELY one to pin my hopes on AG being a relentless attacker at the rim, but he doesn't show me that. If he does that, I could see him being a star. If he's not hungry enough, his chance at stardom will disappear.
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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#502 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Thu Feb 9, 2017 2:24 am

A lot hinders on what we do at the deadline which is why I am actually happy that Hennigan and co haven't made a move yet and holding their cards close to their chest. I have a funny feeling Hennigan pulls a rabbit out of his hat hence the Kyler tweet "Don't be surprised if the Magic pull something flashy".

A Butler trade will literally turn this franchise around. Ibaka will most likely resign and we'll have enough cap to sign a one of Holiday/Lowry or at least remaining assets to acquire players like Bledsoe/Dragic. Optimistic? Sure. I just don't think Hennigan isn't as dumb as you guys think and feel as he has a legitimate plan.
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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#503 » by OrlandoDream » Thu Feb 9, 2017 2:27 am

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:A lot hinders on what we do at the deadline which is why I am actually happy that Hennigan and co haven't made a move yet and holding their cards close to their chest. I have a funny feeling Hennigan pulls a rabbit out of his hat hence the Kyler tweet "Don't be surprised if the Magic pull something flashy".

A Butler trade will literally turn this franchise around. Ibaka will most likely resign and we'll have enough cap to sign a one of Holiday/Lowry or at least remaining assets to acquire players like Bledsoe/Dragic. Optimistic? Sure. I just don't think Hennigan isn't as dumb as you guys think and feel as he has a legitimate plan.

Kyler has as much credibility as Betsy Devos.
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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#504 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Thu Feb 9, 2017 2:32 am

OrlandoDream wrote:
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:A lot hinders on what we do at the deadline which is why I am actually happy that Hennigan and co haven't made a move yet and holding their cards close to their chest. I have a funny feeling Hennigan pulls a rabbit out of his hat hence the Kyler tweet "Don't be surprised if the Magic pull something flashy".

A Butler trade will literally turn this franchise around. Ibaka will most likely resign and we'll have enough cap to sign a one of Holiday/Lowry or at least remaining assets to acquire players like Bledsoe/Dragic. Optimistic? Sure. I just don't think Hennigan isn't as dumb as you guys think and feel as he has a legitimate plan.

Kyler has as much credibility as Betsy Devos.


Sure. Still doesn't take away that Rob hasn't made any panic moves yet (which he could have by now) and is being patient and per reports is really valuing our players and not making a trade to simply make one.
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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#505 » by OrlandoDream » Thu Feb 9, 2017 3:01 am

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
OrlandoDream wrote:
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:A lot hinders on what we do at the deadline which is why I am actually happy that Hennigan and co haven't made a move yet and holding their cards close to their chest. I have a funny feeling Hennigan pulls a rabbit out of his hat hence the Kyler tweet "Don't be surprised if the Magic pull something flashy".

A Butler trade will literally turn this franchise around. Ibaka will most likely resign and we'll have enough cap to sign a one of Holiday/Lowry or at least remaining assets to acquire players like Bledsoe/Dragic. Optimistic? Sure. I just don't think Hennigan isn't as dumb as you guys think and feel as he has a legitimate plan.

Kyler has as much credibility as Betsy Devos.


Sure. Still doesn't take away that Rob hasn't made any panic moves yet (which he could have by now) and is being patient and per reports is really valuing our players and not making a trade to simply make one.

True and cant blame him for that. Lets you know that last years Tobias trade was all management and Skiles pressuring him. If we dont make a trade then its bc nothing noticeable appeared.
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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#506 » by anothermagicfan » Thu Feb 9, 2017 3:05 am

this is a wildly unfair trade right here. elfrid paytons hair for dennis rodmans hair. straight up though. im not giving away our first rounder in this deal. ok ok. one first round pick as long as we get one of rodmans rings too! cmon its a good trade
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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#507 » by nymets1 » Thu Feb 9, 2017 3:20 am

Jabari Parker suffered a sprained left knee on Wednesday and will not return.
It did not look good. Parker's left leg buckled on a drive and he needed some help off the floor. This is the same left knee that needed ACL surgery during his rookie season. He is almost certainly going to be reevaluated in the next 24 hours. If he needs to miss time, Mirza Teletovic and Michael Beasley could be asked to step up. Giannis Antetokounmpo could also play more four to open up minutes for the wings. This is potentially awful news on what was an exciting day with Khris Middleton returning. Feb 8 - 9:49 PM
Source: Bucks on Twitter

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/2285/jabari-parker

Parker more of a injury risk now than Lavine but we can be better next year quick if we landed Lavine and/ or Parker IF they get to 100% healthy. Plus whoever we get in the draft. The Bucks may just be more likely than the Timberwolves to give up on Parker and see what the Bucks can get back.
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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#508 » by MagicFan101 » Thu Feb 9, 2017 3:24 am

OrlandoDream wrote:
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
OrlandoDream wrote:Kyler has as much credibility as Betsy Devos.


Sure. Still doesn't take away that Rob hasn't made any panic moves yet (which he could have by now) and is being patient and per reports is really valuing our players and not making a trade to simply make one.

True and cant blame him for that. Lets you know that last years Tobias trade was all management and Skiles pressuring him. If we dont make a trade then its bc nothing noticeable appeared.


The Tobias trade was sensible minds coming together and cutting their losses for the sake of the team. People need to give up on the witch hunt.
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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#509 » by Magic_Johnny12 » Thu Feb 9, 2017 3:28 am

nymets1 wrote:Jabari Parker suffered a sprained left knee on Wednesday and will not return.
It did not look good. Parker's left leg buckled on a drive and he needed some help off the floor. This is the same left knee that needed ACL surgery during his rookie season. He is almost certainly going to be reevaluated in the next 24 hours. If he needs to miss time, Mirza Teletovic and Michael Beasley could be asked to step up. Giannis Antetokounmpo could also play more four to open up minutes for the wings. This is potentially awful news on what was an exciting day with Khris Middleton returning. Feb 8 - 9:49 PM
Source: Bucks on Twitter

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/2285/jabari-parker

Parker more of a injury risk now than Lavine but we can be better next year quick if we landed Lavine and/ or Parker IF they get to 100% healthy. Plus whoever we get in the draft. The Bucks may just be more likely than the Timberwolves to give up on Parker and see what the Bucks can get back.


Please stop acting like a vulture and have a little sympathy.
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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#510 » by Xatticus » Thu Feb 9, 2017 8:49 am

Magic_Johnny12 wrote:
OrlandoDream wrote:
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:A lot hinders on what we do at the deadline which is why I am actually happy that Hennigan and co haven't made a move yet and holding their cards close to their chest. I have a funny feeling Hennigan pulls a rabbit out of his hat hence the Kyler tweet "Don't be surprised if the Magic pull something flashy".

A Butler trade will literally turn this franchise around. Ibaka will most likely resign and we'll have enough cap to sign a one of Holiday/Lowry or at least remaining assets to acquire players like Bledsoe/Dragic. Optimistic? Sure. I just don't think Hennigan isn't as dumb as you guys think and feel as he has a legitimate plan.

Kyler has as much credibility as Betsy Devos.


Sure. Still doesn't take away that Rob hasn't made any panic moves yet (which he could have by now) and is being patient and per reports is really valuing our players and not making a trade to simply make one.


I'm not sure what the impetus was for the Harris or Ibaka trades, but I wouldn't rule out panic.
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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#511 » by Xatticus » Thu Feb 9, 2017 8:53 am

nymets1 wrote:Jabari Parker suffered a sprained left knee on Wednesday and will not return.
It did not look good. Parker's left leg buckled on a drive and he needed some help off the floor. This is the same left knee that needed ACL surgery during his rookie season. He is almost certainly going to be reevaluated in the next 24 hours. If he needs to miss time, Mirza Teletovic and Michael Beasley could be asked to step up. Giannis Antetokounmpo could also play more four to open up minutes for the wings. This is potentially awful news on what was an exciting day with Khris Middleton returning. Feb 8 - 9:49 PM
Source: Bucks on Twitter

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/2285/jabari-parker

Parker more of a injury risk now than Lavine but we can be better next year quick if we landed Lavine and/ or Parker IF they get to 100% healthy. Plus whoever we get in the draft. The Bucks may just be more likely than the Timberwolves to give up on Parker and see what the Bucks can get back.


I think you are misguided in your perception of the impact of injuries on a player's value.
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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#512 » by Nemesis21 » Thu Feb 9, 2017 12:33 pm

OrlandoDream wrote:
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:A lot hinders on what we do at the deadline which is why I am actually happy that Hennigan and co haven't made a move yet and holding their cards close to their chest. I have a funny feeling Hennigan pulls a rabbit out of his hat hence the Kyler tweet "Don't be surprised if the Magic pull something flashy".

A Butler trade will literally turn this franchise around. Ibaka will most likely resign and we'll have enough cap to sign a one of Holiday/Lowry or at least remaining assets to acquire players like Bledsoe/Dragic. Optimistic? Sure. I just don't think Hennigan isn't as dumb as you guys think and feel as he has a legitimate plan.

Kyler has as much credibility as Betsy Devos.


I'm embarrassed that she is related to our owner. I've been saying for a long time, we need a new owner.
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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#513 » by Nemesis21 » Thu Feb 9, 2017 12:38 pm

Skin wrote:
axl_c_cool wrote:
anothermagicfan wrote:



Nope. You got 5 players in parentheses there that are worth paying 30 mil. I like serge a lot. I think rob has done a good job with the hand he's been dealt. However if he gave serge 30 mil/year I'd go from defending him to the one creating the thread for him to be fired.

I'll give you a list of 30 mil/year players serge has played with...at the same time...and didn't win a title with. Westbrook, durant, harden. If serge was that level of player those boys would have a couple trophies.



Under the current salary cap 30M isn't what it was last year and it won't be what it is this year. I'm with Skin, if we know he has serious interest we need to keep him, our current situation we need to sign him at a premium. The questions are though

- Will he sign 4-5 years? or a 2 year player option
- What does it mean for AG at PF/SF
- What will we do with Vucevic and Biyombo, we can't keep all 3


If we don't have assurances I'm expecting Ibaka to be traded, it's too much of a risk for Hennigan to lose him for nothing. If we have assurances, no matter the price, I'm expecting Biyombo, Vucevic, Gordon, Payton, and Fournier to all be available. Biyombo would likely be Rob's ideal trade piece so he can put Ibaka and Vucevic next to each other. Gordon might be available for the right player and also because PF will be locked up if we resign Serge. Fournier and Payton are complimentary players (at present) and don't play well together, as well as the signing of Ibaka would leave us with PG/SG/SF as the only real positions we can upgrade and find a star at.


My personal preference would be to

A) Trade pieces outside of Gordon/Payton/Hezonja for a 'star'/Allstar level talent
B) Trade the same pieces for young players and picks and tank


The next 2 weeks are going to be very interesting for the Magic!

- Will he sign 4-5 years? or a 2 year player option

He'll either sign with us for 5 years because he wants to get as much money as he can OR he will sign for 4 years with a contender who can pay him the Max or close to it. The dark horse option is that he goes back to OKC which would be a genius plan, actually.

- What does it mean for AG at PF/SF

If Ibaka leaves, AG will get more minutes at PF. If Ibaka stays, AG could end up being a 6th man (finding minutes between SF and PF). His time as a starter at SF could be very short lived. The only way out of that is him taking a big step forward in his game, but I don't see the true inner desire.

- What will we do with Vucevic and Biyombo, we can't keep all 3.

We can keep all 3. But we should trade Vuc. He's the black cat. We'll never really win relying on him.



You are such a Vuc hater. :roll: I'd rather move Biz and keep Vuc & Ibaka.
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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#514 » by pepe1991 » Thu Feb 9, 2017 12:40 pm

People still here dream about Jimmy Butler?
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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#515 » by drsd » Thu Feb 9, 2017 12:53 pm

Xatticus wrote:I'm not sure what the impetus was for the Harris or Ibaka trades, but I wouldn't rule out panic.


Harris was traded as he was up for a contract and would have gotten more money than (at the time) Orlando thought they could afford for him. If only the team had known that the Cap would more than have doubled. Not only is Harris "only" making 17M this year, which currently is not a bad contract for a 15ppg+ guy, his contract actually declines in each of the coming years. But I cannot expect GM Hennigan to have been psychic to this point.

Oladipo was traded because Fournier is a better player. There never, ever was a way the Magic keep both. One can question if Ibaka's expiring deal was the best Orlando could have gotten. But Oladipo was going to be moved no matter what.


..
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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#516 » by drsd » Thu Feb 9, 2017 12:56 pm

pepe1991 wrote:People still here dream about Jimmy Butler?


Yes please.

Gordon, Ibaka's expiring and the Magic's 2017 and 2019 firsts. PLEASE let this be real. the Magic could even swallow Robin Lopez's deal to sweeten the pot (by adding Green and Meeks as further expirings).


The result would be a core around Payton, Fournier, Butler and Vučević. The FA market could bring in a good PF.

This Magic roster is starting to look like it could sniff 40 wins and has a great deal of growth left to be found.

..
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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#517 » by drsd » Thu Feb 9, 2017 12:58 pm

Nemesis21 wrote: I'd rather move Biz and keep Vuc & Ibaka.



Indeed!


Vučević continue to be an excellent scorer and a dominant rebounder. And his defense has been at least "average."

He is a keeper.\




..
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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#518 » by ChosenSavior » Thu Feb 9, 2017 1:01 pm

drsd wrote:
Xatticus wrote:I'm not sure what the impetus was for the Harris or Ibaka trades, but I wouldn't rule out panic.


Harris was traded as he was up for a contract and would have gotten more money than (at the time) Orlando thought they could afford for him. If only the team had known that the Cap would more than have doubled. Not only is Harris "only" making 17M this year, which currently is not a bad contract for a 15ppg+ guy, his contract actually declines in each of the coming years. But I cannot expect GM Hennigan to have been psychic to this point.

Oladipo was traded because Fournier is a better player. There never, ever was a way the Magic keep both. One can question if Ibaka's expiring deal was the best Orlando could have gotten. But Oladipo was going to be moved no matter what.


..


Hennigan was the one who gave Tobias that contract you are talking about right now so he knew what he was doing. He made a deal to get veterans to help us try to catch up in the playoff race last year but it back fired and then used his freed up money on Jeff Green and brought Biyombo which has been a total train wreck.

Fournier being better than Dipo is completely debatable. I think Dipo would have been better for the team chemistry wise but I get why Rob traded for Ibaka.
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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#519 » by Xatticus » Thu Feb 9, 2017 1:37 pm

drsd wrote:
Xatticus wrote:I'm not sure what the impetus was for the Harris or Ibaka trades, but I wouldn't rule out panic.


Harris was traded as he was up for a contract and would have gotten more money than (at the time) Orlando thought they could afford for him. If only the team had known that the Cap would more than have doubled. Not only is Harris "only" making 17M this year, which currently is not a bad contract for a 15ppg+ guy, his contract actually declines in each of the coming years. But I cannot expect GM Hennigan to have been psychic to this point.

Oladipo was traded because Fournier is a better player. There never, ever was a way the Magic keep both. One can question if Ibaka's expiring deal was the best Orlando could have gotten. But Oladipo was going to be moved no matter what.


..


Harris' extension was already done. He was traded halfway through the first year of it. The spike in the salary cap was well-known long before it actually happened as it resulted from the new TV deal. It would be egregious for an NBA executive not to know this years in advance. The NBA releases periodic projections based on anticipated revenues. These factored in the increased television money.

My comment was an attempt at humor. What qualifies any trade as a "panic move" is almost entirely subjective, but one can't really rule it out when a terrible decision is made. You stated that Hennigan hadn't made any panic moves. Characterizing those trades as "panic moves" is actually a flattering interpretation.
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Re: The Trade Thread II 

Post#520 » by LBPTarHeel27 » Thu Feb 9, 2017 2:14 pm

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:People still here dream about Jimmy Butler?


Yes please.

Gordon, Ibaka's expiring and the Magic's 2017 and 2019 firsts. PLEASE let this be real. the Magic could even swallow Robin Lopez's deal to sweeten the pot (by adding Green and Meeks as further expirings).


The result would be a core around Payton, Fournier, Butler and Vučević. The FA market could bring in a good PF.

This Magic roster is starting to look like it could sniff 40 wins and has a great deal of growth left to be found.

..


Yeah...I am basically at the point where I let Chicago name their price to a reasonable degree.

The way the team looks now, unless we make a drastic move, we are not going to be able to bring in a any good FA. No one will want to play here. If you land Butler, there is appeal. There is a reason to come join the Magic. Especially if you are someone like Paul George.

Any player Chicago wants...give them up. When it comes to picks, throw a little protection on them and let them go, as well.
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