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Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#141 » by LukasBMW » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:56 pm

Remember when we had IT, Bledsoe, AND Dragic and we were BALLING early in the season?

Our backcourt was torching fools! I remember beating the Spurs EASILY (in the regular season) and we blew open the game running all 3 AT THE SAME DAMN TIME! AT THE SAME DAMN TIME!

But IT wanted to start and Dragic didn't like playing small forward so it all went downhill quickly. Quite a shame.

The Dragic trade looked good at the time and still looks good. He was a free agent and even back then those Miami picks had potential. Hell, superstars have been traded for less. We really made Miami pay up.

I wish we would have hung on to IT until the end of the season. We had him locked up so he couldn't go anywhere and we could have mixed him into the starting lineup with Bledsoe.

I almost wonder if we traded IT to make room for Brandon Knight (which makes the Knight trade even worse. LOL)

Imagine, we could have the Miami picks, the Laker pick, AND IT right now!!!!! :banghead: :banghead:

Instead we have the Miami Picks and Brandon Knight. So...we traded not just the Laker pick but also IT for Knight essentially. :lol: :lol: :ouch: :sigh: :giveup: :no:
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#142 » by jcsunsfan » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:30 pm

LukasBMW wrote:Remember when we had IT, Bledsoe, AND Dragic and we were BALLING early in the season?

Our backcourt was torching fools! I remember beating the Spurs EASILY (in the regular season) and we blew open the game running all 3 AT THE SAME DAMN TIME! AT THE SAME DAMN TIME!

But IT wanted to start and Dragic didn't like playing small forward so it all went downhill quickly. Quite a shame.

The Dragic trade looked good at the time and still looks good. He was a free agent and even back then those Miami picks had potential. Hell, superstars have been traded for less. We really made Miami pay up.

I wish we would have hung on to IT until the end of the season. We had him locked up so he couldn't go anywhere and we could have mixed him into the starting lineup with Bledsoe.

I almost wonder if we traded IT to make room for Brandon Knight (which makes the Knight trade even worse. LOL)

Imagine, we could have the Miami picks, the Laker pick, AND IT right now!!!!! :banghead: :banghead:

Instead we have the Miami Picks and Brandon Knight. So...we traded not just the Laker pick but also IT for Knight essentially. :lol: :lol: :ouch: :sigh: :giveup: :no:


Man. Quit torturing yourself! Find some positive things to think about.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#143 » by AZWildByNature » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:36 pm

PHOENIX
Roster
Player / Value / Insider info
1. Eric Bledsoe / Core
2. Devin Booker / Core
3. T.J. Warren / Key starter
4. Tyson Chandler / Starter
5. *Marquese Chriss / Top reserve/development
6. *Alex Len / Top reserve / RFA expiring contract
7. *Brandon Knight / Top reserve
8. Jared Dudley / Rotation
9. P.J. Tucker / Rotation
10. Tyler Ulis / Rotation
11. Leandro Barbosa / Roster / 2017-18 $500,000 protection
12. Ronnie Price / Roster / 10-day contract
13. Alan Williams / Roster / RFA expiring contract
14. Dragan Bender / Development/injured
15. Derrick Jones / Development / 2017-18 no protection
*Started during the season but is best suited coming off the bench.

Trade assets
On the precipice of a playoff spot in 2013-14 and 2014-15, Phoenix has fallen on hard times because of coaching turmoil, competition in the West and a roster that duplicates at each position with former draft picks and veterans.

Now headed to the lottery for a seventh straight season, management’s patience will be tested.

While core pieces Eric Bledsoe and Devin Booker offer the most value, entertaining thoughts of moving either player would delay the Suns’ rebuild.

The value of the Suns’ roster could be with their veteran players.

The contracts of Tyson Chandler, Jared Dudley, P.J. Tucker and Leandro Barbosa feature an expiring contract (Tucker), a deal not guaranteed for next season (Barbosa) and solid veterans that could contribute to a playoff team (Chandler and Dudley).

The Suns also own all their future first- and second-round picks along with Miami’s 2018 first (protected Nos. 1-7) and a 2021 unprotected first.

GM history at the deadline
One would think Ryan McDonough would like a mulligan on his February 2015 trades.

In his fourth season, McDonough has made four deadline deals, including three on Feb. 19, 2015.

The scorecard from that eventful Thursday: Phoenix received three first-round picks – two from Miami and one from Boston – along with Brandon Knight in exchange for Goran Dragic and Isaiah Thomas.

Miami received Dragic, Thomas went to Boston and a future first-round pick from the Lakers (acquired in the Steve Nash trade) was sent to Philadelphia.

Thomas is now putting up MVP numbers, the Lakers are in the bottom of the Western Conference, and Knight is now just a rotation player.

Phoenix added another first-round pick last February, when Markieff Morris was traded to Washington.

Two of the Suns’ first-round picks were sent to Sacramento on draft night in exchange for Marquese Chriss.

Post-trade deadline roster movement
Phoenix has 14 guaranteed contracts.

Like Philadelphia and Minnesota, the Suns are also $3.8 million below the minimum team salary floor.

Phoenix also has $13.2 million in cap space. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/trade-guide-whats-the-76ers-process-155638236.html


Time to put up or shut up, McD!
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Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#144 » by bhawk » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:36 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
DarkHawk wrote:The biggest blunders, to me, are trading for Knight AND trading Thomas.
I won't act like I wasn't Ok with dealing Thomas at the time, but it is questionable to make these trades when you already have IT who could have played alongside Bledsoe instead of trading him and then trading for Knight.
Given there was no salary jump yet, keeping a much cheaper Thomas seemed to make the most sense.

He was put in a tough spot with Dragic but I believe he panicked.
Those Miami picks will sway whether or not his run here is/was deemed a success along with this years pick.

Trading for knight is far and away the worst thing McD has done as a gm. That move has been an absolute disaster on all fronts.

IT is a little trickier. Of course in hindsight he should have got more for him in that Celtics trade. But if youre going to point at that as a negative then it only seems fair to point at getting him to sign that contract as a positive. That contract also proves that IT wasnt exactly sought after by the rest of the league. And lets say hypothetically they had kept IT, how many extra games would they have won last year? Id say like 5 tops and i dont see them as a playoff team with him this year either. And for as well as hes played offensively i still have some worries teams will pick the hell out of him on d in the playoffs.

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Here's what kills me on the Dragic, Bled and IT situation... arguably Bled should be better than IT and Dragic. We had training camp and half a season with the 3 guards. 1 year later (has it only been a year?) IT is an ALL-Star and being talked about as an MVP. The dude has been insane this year and he is fun to watch. Dragic is on fire as of late and is leading his team on a 11 game win streak. Dragic is forgiven because of that crazy contract and I love the return of 2 firsts from Miami.

Here is my beef... if you had all 3 guards on the roster and competing... our organization (Hornacek has much blame here) went with arguably the worst of the 3 guards in Bledsoe. Common sense says if your guards aren't getting along and can't play together, then keep the best one. On paper, we kept the worst one.

Either the Suns are wearing rose-colored sunglasses OR Bledsoe still has some major upside and potential. Yes, I've seen the flashes with Bled and the huge games, but he is inconsistent and it doesn't seem like he makes players around him better. I don't think he ever becomes an all-star.

Now is Bledsoe's success a function of a bad roster and a youth movement? Could any team win starting Chriss? Is Bled sacrificing his game and deferring to the heir-apparent - Booker? Yes, No and Yes.

So what to do? Personally and IMHO I would like to trade Bledsoe before the deadline. We have already committed to a youth movement, let's go ALL IN and build around Booker and whatever guard we draft this year. Trade Bledsoe to Sacremento for their unprotected first and call it a day.

------------------------------------

On Knight... just a bad move. It's too bad because I thought he had potential. Now it looks like he will be a journeyman and a wash-out. Could this be a case of "I got paid and now I don't have to improve?" He could seriously be out of the league next season because there are just too many talented guards in the NBA... too many guards who are better.

Also consider that there will be 6 guards coming into the league next year. That is 6 rookie guards who will better than Knight on DAY ONE... MUCH BETTER than Knight. Ball, Fultz, and Dennis Smith are FRANCHISE day-one starters. Fox, Ntilikina, Monk are better than Knight and may even be better than Bledsoe.

Think about it... that's SIX teams in the NBA who will have to FIRE their current guard to make room. My vote is that we are one of the 6 teams in the NBA who fires their current starting guard(s) and makes one of these 6 players our future ALL-STAR starter. Draft whichever guard gets along best with Booker, because those 2 will be our core for the next 10 years.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#145 » by ATTL » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:56 pm

I look around the league at GMs blowing their loads on middling players and trading unprotected picks for mediocrity. I like Ryan and trust him with the draft. The evil we know is better than the billy king or lance bass that could come next.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#146 » by gaspar » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:00 pm

You guys sure love to dwell on the past.
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Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#147 » by bhawk » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:23 pm

bhawk wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:
bawk wrote:
Also consider that there will be 6 guards coming into the league next year. That is 6 rookie guards who will better than Knight on DAY ONE... MUCH BETTER than Knight. Ball, Fultz, and Dennis Smith are FRANCHISE day-one starters. Fox, Ntilikina, Monk are better than Knight and may even be better than Bledsoe.

Think about it... that's SIX teams in the NBA who will have to FIRE their current guard to make room. My vote is that we are one of the 6 teams in the NBA who fires their current starting guard(s) and makes one of these 6 players our future ALL-STAR starter. Draft whichever guard gets along best with Booker, because those 2 will be our core for the next 10 years.


Another thought... Can we give credit to McD and Sarver for not drafting a guard this year? We could have had Dunn, Hield or Murray on the team instead of Bender and Chriss. Thankfully, McD looked ahead to the 2017 draft and valued Ball, Fultz, Smith, Fox, Ntilikina, Monk higher. Time will tell if the 2016 guards turn out to be better than the 2017 class, but I would hate to be faced with that decision this year.

Minnesota drafted Dunn and they have Rubio... are they really going to draft another guard?
NOP drafted Hield and they have Jrue... will they take a guard?
Denver drafted Murray and Muiday the year before... what a mess. They can't draft a guard again this year can they?
What the heck is Boston going to do? They have IT, Jaylen Brown and Smart.

The Suns and McD have positioned themselves to take a point guard this year.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#148 » by TOO » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:23 pm

gaspar wrote:You guys sure love to dwell on the past.

Its one of the silliest things I've ever seen.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#149 » by carey » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:27 pm

ATTL wrote:I look around the league at GMs blowing their loads on middling players and trading unprotected picks for mediocrity. I like Ryan and trust him with the draft. The evil we know is better than the billy king or lance bass that could come next.


'Tis a valid point. I would also posit that Sarver has never really paid for front office talent before. Always opting to bring in someone new to the position (Kerr, Babby, Blanks, McDonough, etc.) Should this cycle repeat itself the team would then wait through the learning process of yet another new General Manager. That process is often fraught with mistakes. Is that enough of a reason for McDonough to keep his job? I'd argue it isn't. That said, I'd be lying if I said I'm not scared of who the next hire would be.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#150 » by bwgood77 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:27 pm

carey wrote:
ATTL wrote:I look around the league at GMs blowing their loads on middling players and trading unprotected picks for mediocrity. I like Ryan and trust him with the draft. The evil we know is better than the billy king or lance bass that could come next.


'Tis a valid point. I would also posit that Sarver has never really paid for front office talent before. Always opting to bring in someone new to the position (Kerr, Babby, Blanks, McDonough, etc.) Should this cycle repeat itself the team would then wait through the learning process of yet another new General Manager. That process is often fraught with mistakes. Is that enough of a reason for McDonough to keep his job? I'd argue it isn't. That said, I'd be lying if I said I'm not scared of who the next hire would be.


Yeah, meanwhile David Griffin and Steve Kerr doing pretty well now.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#151 » by TOO » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:48 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
carey wrote:
ATTL wrote:I look around the league at GMs blowing their loads on middling players and trading unprotected picks for mediocrity. I like Ryan and trust him with the draft. The evil we know is better than the billy king or lance bass that could come next.


'Tis a valid point. I would also posit that Sarver has never really paid for front office talent before. Always opting to bring in someone new to the position (Kerr, Babby, Blanks, McDonough, etc.) Should this cycle repeat itself the team would then wait through the learning process of yet another new General Manager. That process is often fraught with mistakes. Is that enough of a reason for McDonough to keep his job? I'd argue it isn't. That said, I'd be lying if I said I'm not scared of who the next hire would be.


Yeah, meanwhile David Griffin and Steve Kerr doing pretty well now.

Which is crazy, how are teams loaded with non-talented players like Kyrie, Love, LeBron, Curry, Thompson, Green, and Durant having any success? I cant believe the Warriors were able to sustain the loss of an all time great coach in Luke Walton and have Kerr step in and not miss a beat. :o
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#152 » by bwgood77 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:51 pm

TOO wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
carey wrote:
'Tis a valid point. I would also posit that Sarver has never really paid for front office talent before. Always opting to bring in someone new to the position (Kerr, Babby, Blanks, McDonough, etc.) Should this cycle repeat itself the team would then wait through the learning process of yet another new General Manager. That process is often fraught with mistakes. Is that enough of a reason for McDonough to keep his job? I'd argue it isn't. That said, I'd be lying if I said I'm not scared of who the next hire would be.


Yeah, meanwhile David Griffin and Steve Kerr doing pretty well now.

Which is crazy, how are teams loaded with non-talented players like Kyrie, Love, LeBron, Curry, Thompson, Green, and Durant having any success? I cant believe the Warriors were able to sustain the loss of an all time great coach in Luke Walton and have Kerr step in and not miss a beat. :o


Well, Kerr and Griffin got to each respective place before the beginning of their dominance. Not sure how much impact Griffin has really had on everything but Kerr's has been enormous. They never become a juggernaut nor likely get KD without Kerr replacing Jackson.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#153 » by RaisingArizona » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:59 pm

That's it. I'm pulling up posts from the day the IT trade happened. We'll see what those people said at the time.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#154 » by jcsunsfan » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:30 pm

ginobiliflops wrote:That's it. I'm pulling up posts from the day the IT trade happened. We'll see what those people said at the time.


Looking forward to seeing it.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#155 » by thamadkant » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:31 pm

gaspar wrote:
1UPZ wrote:
ginobiliflops wrote:Lol, who was so insistent that Parker was worth more than Bled?



Pre Injury 2017 he was.


An ACL injury can happen to anyone... It takes one bad bump or landing.



Torn meniscus.... Now that cannot be replaced... If the damaged bit is in the inner portion... Brandon Roy like... And we know Bledsoe has had 2 meniscus repair injuries.

Dude, torn meniscus is like a broken nail compared to a torn ACL. Jabari's injury is waaaaaaay more serious than Bledsoe's.



Im recovering from a torn ACL and a torn meniscus....

The surgeon was relieved that my meniscus tear was on the outside. He said meniscus tear on the inner are unrepairable generally and are the cause of early onset of arthritis on the knees.

ACL tear means the knee is never the same again because the ACL grafted in is never the same angle or position... And mine is about 5 degrees different from ny original one.

ACL is the most serious knee ligament injury probably tied with a PCL but PCL tear is so so rare due to how tough it is.

The biggest hurdle for ACL rehab is the leg loses power and strength due to recovery....

For an older athlete... Loss of muscle, motion and power for 6 to 9 months is devastating not to mention the knee not being 100% anymore. But if the person is younger... They have time to catch up and recover and reach their best or new best again. Jabari was having an All Star season 2 years post surgery... 1 year knee recovery and 1 year mental side.


This 2nd injury is on the same knee... Which means the titanium plate in the knee from the first surgery will be "dug" out by the surgeon and the new ACL graft will be inserted almost exactly the same angle as the first surgery. The difference would be the how tight the new one will be placed in there... Which will be dependent on if they lock the ACL while his leg is 100% straight or slightly bent.


But meniscus tear?
Get one in the inner zone and it will cause inflammation and pain and instability. Microfracture surgery does not work well long term as Amare has shown. Outer meniscus tear is not that bad but still causes issues... I have this now... My knee feels slightly inflamed after cycling and jogging.



My point.... Jabari is younger... Bledsoe not so much and his injury is harder to repair.. Another knee injury could be devastating and could be it.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#156 » by Mulhollanddrive » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:35 pm

Would we really risk Devin Booker by making him play SF with Bledsoe and Ball (for example)?

I look at teams like NY, Sacramento, Minnesota who keep repeating the same mistakes with different people because they're delusional about their methodology.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#157 » by King4Day » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:37 pm

gaspar wrote:You guys sure love to dwell on the past.


Not a whole lot to talk about. It's good discussion and keeping the forum active.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#158 » by gaspar » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:41 pm

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#159 » by gaspar » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:41 pm

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#160 » by NTB » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:43 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Would we really risk Devin Booker by making him play SF with Bledsoe and Ball (for example)?

I look at teams like NY, Sacramento, Minnesota who keep repeating the same mistakes with different people because they're delusional about their methodology.


We must trade Bledsoe while he is in his prime because this team needs Ball.
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