Game 55: Philadelphia 76ers (18-34) @ Orlando Magic (20-34) - 7:30 PM ET

[LBPTarHeel27]

Biz is almost unplayable ! He isn't that great at defense , especially to make up for his offense . Biz has less value than Tobias because teams can get a back up center for about 10 million less per year . Tobias has a good contract and is a capable player . Also how would Tobias be blocking Ags development ? They could play together ! We actually had a better defense last year , we took a step back this year. Again I don't think dipo and Harris are stars but what we traded them for has made us worst and it's not hindsight 20/20 because at the time both trades were made a lot of people questioned the moves from the moment they happened

At the end of the day, this team would have failed either way. If we have stayed the course with Dipo and Harris...maybe we win 35 games again? Maybe? We see what is happening now.

Rob failed, either way. However, as a fan, I am happy that he at least took a swing and missed...rather than standing with something that clearly wasn't working. He put himself in that situation but I am OK with him trying to fix it...and again, the plan made sense on paper. It is not like the moves had no rhyme or reason behind them.

in my opinion on paper it never made sense ! That's why so many people questioned it . He was hoping that people did things they never did before ! Ibaka be a 1st option, Ag at sf , Evan playmaker , ep a shooter , biz a starter . None of those things had happened before the trade happened and hasn't worked out now either . My point is that there was no reason to trade dipo yet especially for a player who isnt a difference maker. The team last year made a big jump and there was no reason not to think they would have improved this year. Continuity and chemistry is being over looked and also could have still traded dipo or Fournier or both and gotten a better return than ibaka

I think you are clinging to something that was never going to work. It's not hard to trend upward from 25 wins. It is sad that we view that as the good ol' days of this rebuild. That team was never going to accomplish anything but a first round exit, at their peak. I think there is something to be said for chemistry, for sure. It is a huge factor. But again...with all the chemistry in the world, that team was never going to work. I think the more prudent view, at this point, would be to look at what we have. Individually, we have a lot of good defensive talents. It clearly hasn't come together as a whole. Why not try and develop that chemistry? Target guys that can come in and score to help supplement the terrible offense while the team gets to know each other in their defensive rotations?

I am in no way saying I think it would work...but I do think that we need to realize that we will be building around Elf and AG with Biz fairly locked in as part of the near future. Unless something drastic changes, that is where we are. We failed in the beginning years of this rebuild, we are failing presently...we need to look ahead. So we are back to building around a core of guys that have no offense but do have some defensive potential. We need to make that work. I expect moves to reflect what I just said, going in to the trade deadline and in free agency.

[Bergmaniac]

I agree. Biz is likely a career backup but his value is wasted on our team because of the fact that we have no offense. If we had a top tier offense, Biz would be an incredibly valuable asset.

Toronto had a top tier offense last season. They chose to let Biz go instead of signing him for 17 mln. per year (or even less, he may well have given them a discount since he liked it there). And they were right - he's not an asset at this prize, he's a big liability.

Ibaka and Biz on the same team is an overkill given Biz's salary and knowing Ibaka will demand at least 20 mln. to stay. Offensively it doesn't work at all since both are horrendous passers and Biz is also useless at everything else except offensive rebounding and screens. Defensively they are too similar, both try to block everything which gets exploited by smart offenses.

[JAY DASH]

Hard to say we're building around Elf when he keeps getting benched. I'd say we're building around Evan and Vooch unless a deal presents itself that will give us the next level scoring that we need...and I'm ok with that because those are the two best players on our team right now. Two of the top three if you're one of those people that believe Serge is good. In reality we don't have anyone that's really "untouchable" IMO.

[npiper17]

I think we're building around no one. If Boston called tomorrow and offered Amir Johnson's expiring contract and the Brooklyn first for Vuc, Gordon and Hezonja, I would do it.

[Furinkazan]

not only calculations I remember Heningan being cocky after he traded Dipo.I still remember interview few days after the trade.It was said fans are upset he traded Dipo and he said soemthing like.Thats why they arent gm or something like that.
He felt so high and mighty back then now he looks like a f dimwit.

[Mc-o]

At the end of the day, this team would have failed either way. If we have stayed the course with Dipo and Harris...maybe we win 35 games again? Maybe? We see what is happening now.

Rob failed, either way. However, as a fan, I am happy that he at least took a swing and missed...rather than standing with something that clearly wasn't working. He put himself in that situation but I am OK with him trying to fix it...and again, the plan made sense on paper. It is not like the moves had no rhyme or reason behind them.

in my opinion on paper it never made sense ! That's why so many people questioned it . He was hoping that people did things they never did before ! Ibaka be a 1st option, Ag at sf , Evan playmaker , ep a shooter , biz a starter . None of those things had happened before the trade happened and hasn't worked out now either . My point is that there was no reason to trade dipo yet especially for a player who isnt a difference maker. The team last year made a big jump and there was no reason not to think they would have improved this year. Continuity and chemistry is being over looked and also could have still traded dipo or Fournier or both and gotten a better return than ibaka

I think you are clinging to something that was never going to work. It's not hard to trend upward from 25 wins. It is sad that we view that as the good ol' days of this rebuild. That team was never going to accomplish anything but a first round exit, at their peak. I think there is something to be said for chemistry, for sure. It is a huge factor. But again...with all the chemistry in the world, that team was never going to work. I think the more prudent view, at this point, would be to look at what we have. Individually, we have a lot of good defensive talents. It clearly hasn't come together as a whole. Why not try and develop that chemistry? Target guys that can come in and score to help supplement the terrible offense while the team gets to know each other in their defensive rotations?

I am in no way saying I think it would work...but I do think that we need to realize that we will be building around Elf and AG with Biz fairly locked in as part of the near future. Unless something drastic changes, that is where we are. We failed in the beginning years of this rebuild, we are failing presently...we need to look ahead. So we are back to building around a core of guys that have no offense but do have some defensive potential. We need to make that work. I expect moves to reflect what I just said, going in to the trade deadline and in free agency.

I agree that those players were not a chamionship team but the current regime making decisions are not making moves that show they can build a winning team because they mishandled the assets they have

[LBPTarHeel27]

I think we're building around no one. If Boston called tomorrow and offered Amir Johnson's expiring contract and the Brooklyn first for Vuc, Gordon and Hezonja, I would do it.

Agreed. Building around someone is only as long term as that player's potential. We have no one that is the true future...so of course anyone can be had. We still have to choose a path with the pieces we have and build around them.

[LBPTarHeel27]

in my opinion on paper it never made sense ! That's why so many people questioned it . He was hoping that people did things they never did before ! Ibaka be a 1st option, Ag at sf , Evan playmaker , ep a shooter , biz a starter . None of those things had happened before the trade happened and hasn't worked out now either . My point is that there was no reason to trade dipo yet especially for a player who isnt a difference maker. The team last year made a big jump and there was no reason not to think they would have improved this year. Continuity and chemistry is being over looked and also could have still traded dipo or Fournier or both and gotten a better return than ibaka

I think you are clinging to something that was never going to work. It's not hard to trend upward from 25 wins. It is sad that we view that as the good ol' days of this rebuild. That team was never going to accomplish anything but a first round exit, at their peak. I think there is something to be said for chemistry, for sure. It is a huge factor. But again...with all the chemistry in the world, that team was never going to work. I think the more prudent view, at this point, would be to look at what we have. Individually, we have a lot of good defensive talents. It clearly hasn't come together as a whole. Why not try and develop that chemistry? Target guys that can come in and score to help supplement the terrible offense while the team gets to know each other in their defensive rotations?

I am in no way saying I think it would work...but I do think that we need to realize that we will be building around Elf and AG with Biz fairly locked in as part of the near future. Unless something drastic changes, that is where we are. We failed in the beginning years of this rebuild, we are failing presently...we need to look ahead. So we are back to building around a core of guys that have no offense but do have some defensive potential. We need to make that work. I expect moves to reflect what I just said, going in to the trade deadline and in free agency.

I agree that those players were not a chamionship team but the current regime making decisions are not making moves that show they can build a winning team because they mishandled the assets they have

I don't think they've really mishandled the assets...it's just that the assets aren't very good.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Hard to say we're building around Elf when he keeps getting benched. I'd say we're building around Evan and Vooch unless a deal presents itself that will give us the next level scoring that we need...and I'm ok with that because those are the two best players on our team right now. Two of the top three if you're one of those people that believe Serge is good. In reality we don't have anyone that's really "untouchable" IMO.

There is absolutely no reason, whatsoever, any team should build around Elfrid Payton. None. Also, I understand liking the fact that Hennigan took a chance on something but I wouldn't say it made sense getting Ibaka and signing Bismack. Especially since two of our projected starters were already limited offensively.

[Howard Mass]

It can't come soon enough. Fans are just tired of watching this group. I'm shocked it was kept together for this long.

I thought it would be messy early and expected a deal a lot sooner.

We are all definitely ready for some deals.

A trade wont change a thing. Im just hoping we get an asset for Serge, thats it.

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Not for this season.

I too hope they can get something decent for Serge.

[Howard Mass]

It can't come soon enough. Fans are just tired of watching this group. I'm shocked it was kept together for this long.

I thought it would be messy early and expected a deal a lot sooner.

We are all definitely ready for some deals.

Same here. I'm a bit shocked we didn't go all in to get Butler after the back and forth in their locker-room a while ago.

I suspect there were no deals while they tried to decide to trade in an attempt to win, versus dumping in an attempt to tank. I'm still not sure the ownership is convinced.

I think ownership accepts it's not going to happen this season.

I just hope they can recover something decent for Ibaka. A few other trades would not hurt either but if Hezonja remains, he needs to play.

[CraZyPraiZ]

Hard to say we're building around Elf when he keeps getting benched. I'd say we're building around Evan and Vooch unless a deal presents itself that will give us the next level scoring that we need...and I'm ok with that because those are the two best players on our team right now. Two of the top three if you're one of those people that believe Serge is good. In reality we don't have anyone that's really "untouchable" IMO.

There is absolutely no reason, whatsoever, any team should build around Elfrid Payton. None. Also, I understand liking the fact that Hennigan took a chance on something but I wouldn't say it made sense getting Ibaka and signing Bismack. Especially since two of our projected starters were already limited offensively.

I disagree. You can't judge him on playmaking abilities because well...this team can not hit open shots if their lives depended on it. EP could easily be averaging 7-8 assists a game if we had any decent shooters. Heck I can't blame the kid at all.

[Mc-o]

Hard to say we're building around Elf when he keeps getting benched. I'd say we're building around Evan and Vooch unless a deal presents itself that will give us the next level scoring that we need...and I'm ok with that because those are the two best players on our team right now. Two of the top three if you're one of those people that believe Serge is good. In reality we don't have anyone that's really "untouchable" IMO.

There is absolutely no reason, whatsoever, any team should build around Elfrid Payton. None. Also, I understand liking the fact that Hennigan took a chance on something but I wouldn't say it made sense getting Ibaka and signing Bismack. Especially since two of our projected starters were already limited offensively.

I disagree. You can't judge him on playmaking abilities because well...this team can not hit open shots if their lives depended on it. EP could easily be averaging 7-8 assists a game if we had any decent shooters. Heck I can't blame the kid at all.

so basically the only starter who cant shoot other than him is AG, so Ag and EP cant co exist ?

[JAY DASH]

Yeah IDK....When Elf's out there he's the fourth best shooter on the floor behind Serge, Evan, and Vuc. I just don't think our style of play suits Elf. When we play against uptempo teams he's a totally different player. My belief coming into this season was that we were going to defend and get out in transition...that's not what is happening though. I think Elf would be much better in a system like Denver's or Phoenix where running is the norm, not the exception.

[amkyka1956]

I always held the belief that the responsibility of the coach was to teach and motivate within whatever parameters he sets as a system. The responsibility of the front office was to find players to fit into said system. With a different coach ( and system) starting anew every season the players for the most part are starting new every year! The identity of the Magic this year was to be heavily defensively oriented with new personnel brought in to ensure that would take place! Ibaka has pretty much fulfilled his part of the deal - Biz, on the other hand, well......! Of our holdover players Vuc has made the biggest strides, AG has played staunch defense and Evan is improving! EP is still inconsistent on both ends, showing great potential some nights and disinterest others. IMHO we don't need, as many on this site have suggested, to completely blow up this team - we have capable, better than average role players at most positions. Our primary need Is at least one, if not two alpha scorers, enabling Vuc, Fornier and others to be used as secondary, not primary scorers! I don' see this happening without giving up Ibaka unfortunately, but a trade involving him, combined with at least one top ten draft pick could very well make us competitive once more! Rob seems to get pushed around and taken advantage of by the more established gm's- at some point I hope he grows a pair!!

[amkyka1956]

I always held the belief that the responsibility of the coach was to teach and motivate within whatever parameters he sets as a system. The responsibility of the front office was to find players to fit into said system. With a different coach ( and system) starting anew every season the players for the most part are starting new every year! The identity of the Magic this year was to be heavily defensively oriented with new personnel brought in to ensure that would take place! Ibaka has pretty much fulfilled his part of the deal - Biz, on the other hand, well......! Of our holdover players Vuc has made the biggest strides, AG has played staunch defense and Evan is improving! EP is still inconsistent on both ends, showing great potential some nights and disinterest others. IMHO we don't need, as many on this site have suggested, to completely blow up this team - we have capable, better than average role players at most positions. Our primary need Is at least one, if not two alpha scorers, enabling Vuc, Fornier and others to be used as secondary, not primary scorers! I don' see this happening without giving up Ibaka unfortunately, but a trade involving him, combined with at least one top ten draft pick could very well make us competitive once more! Rob seems to get pushed around and taken advantage of by the more established gm's- at some point I hope he grows a pair!!

I apologize if this is not the correct thread for this rant, but I'm still a freshman, so I still have room for improvement!!

[Bensational]

One thing this Philly game showed is that we could have a 20ppg player or two or three on our team if we were to force feed shots to them. Fournier could easily be a 20ppg player if he had 20fgas a game like LaVine, Barnes or McCollum.

Vuc has already shown he's good for that in seasons past. Elf is showing he could hit those heights if we forcefed him.

Doesn't mean we'd win more games or be any better for it, though.

I actually don't mind that Vogel is trying to see if he's got anyone he can force into an interim #1 option. He gave Payton a shot, now he's giving Fournier a shot, hopefully he gives Gordon a shot at that when he's healthy. May as well use this season to really test all our guys.

[EasternMagic]

Yeah I don't get the negativity towards Hezonja. He's the least of the problems IMO. Him starting is a good thing. At some point, we need to know what we have with this guy. He was trajecting in the right direction his rookie season then this nightmare season happened.

Is it trolling if it's the truth. At least when this board was obsessed with Travis Diener it was fun.

Bro, you and a couple others on this board have issues... Do you ever get tired of making a fool of yourself?

nah bro.