Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight

[bwgood77]

Re: IT and Knight trades... If you bundle them as one concurrent trade, we basically downgraded the Lakers pick to the Boston pick, for the opportunity to "upgrade" from IT to Knight.

But it's done now, no use crying over spilt milk.

Yeah, it will just be interesting to see how bad that spill was. IT, Ennis, Plumlee and 4th pick in super deep draft this year for Knight and 28th or 29th pick last year. VERY VERY bad. It might still be protected this year, but if so, it could be the #1 pick next year. The Lakers might get better, but so is everyone else in the west. And it's obviously not something I hope for anyway.

Its was a bad trade day for mcd thats for damn sure. The knight trade is just an absolute disaster.

Now to play devil's advocate and cheer us up heres a few things to consider: sure the IT trade looks bad now but atleast from an asset management standpoint they didnt give up anything other than cap space to get him and that 1st they did get was used to help land chriss.

Maybe more importantly is the butterfly effect of that deal. Say they kept IT its reasonable to think they win a few more games that season. That pushes them down in the draft and they probably dont land booker. Then last year if they have IT when bledsoe goes down they probably arent the train wreck they turned out to be and instead of bender you are picking late lotto.

And while they would be better its not like they would be a contender with IT probably late lotto type team that would have sarver itching to make idiotic win now moves. Maybe the mistakes of that day inadvertently got them off the goddamn treadmill to mediocrity.

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Yes, I consider those as well. The butterfly effects are huge. PLUS, people way we didn't realize IT's value, well we ARE the team that signed him to a great deal and got an asset out of it. Many teams could have signed him and many teams could have trumped that offer. So the Suns took advantage of the situation moreso than all but one team: Boston.

But yes, we win a few more games, no Booker, no Chriss without that pick, etc, so you can't really look at things like that in a vacuum, though of course many do.

[Qwigglez]

I imagined the butterfly effect includes OKC taking Booker and then we'd hear how they have the best GM in history. Imagine Westbrook/Booker/Durant/Ibaka/Adams. That is a nasty lineup.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I imagined the butterfly effect includes OKC taking Booker and then we'd hear how they have the best GM in history. Imagine Westbrook/Booker/Durant/Ibaka/Adams. That is a nasty lineup.

OKC absolutely would have taken booker. They've been searching for a shooting wing for years. Hell with booker they might have won the whole damn thing last year.

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[TeamTragic]

I imagined the butterfly effect includes OKC taking Booker and then we'd hear how they have the best GM in history. Imagine Westbrook/Booker/Durant/Ibaka/Adams. That is a nasty lineup.

OKC absolutely would have taken booker. They've been searching for a shooting wing for years. Hell with booker they might have won the whole damn thing last year.

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Booker on the Thunder. Wow.

[jredsaz]

I imagined the butterfly effect includes OKC taking Booker and then we'd hear how they have the best GM in history. Imagine Westbrook/Booker/Durant/Ibaka/Adams. That is a nasty lineup.

Imagine the lineup Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Ibaka. That is super nasty. Lol

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[thamadkant]

How do you know all of this? Just curious? What's your background?

if he works in the medical field then he should know "tears" in a meniscus can be simple or complex. And the complex one, does not have a long-term working repair method. The knee joints do not are almost entirely constructed with ligaments and bones, the lack of tissue and blood prevents meniscus healing... especially the inner zone.


ACL injuries biggest obstacle is the Rehab.... its LONG. Once the ACL or any ligament tears, the muscle, tendon and ligament mechanics gets thrown out of whack and the rehab is the biggest obstacle. I'm 3 months post op and my knee cap doesnt track well when I bend and straighten my knee because the muscles on tibia is still "learning" how to function normally with an ACL again.
And of course the ACL's angle is never the same so it takes a while for the muscles around the knee to adjust to it.


But removed meniscus is permanent... and tears on meniscus are limited to outer repairs. And meniscus injuries affect the patient years in the future and their way of life... imagine having pain every after walking or running.

I tore my ACL and meniscus in 2009. Also cracked my kneecap. Rehab sucked. Took me 8 months to run again without pain.

Question for either of you guys since you seem to know medical stuff:

3 weeks ago, I *thought* I had given myself a hernia helping my elderly neighbor put his Christmas decorations in the attic. (That Christmas tree was heavy)

An urgent care doctor examined me and told me that it wasn't a hernia "because the wall was intact". He did tell me I had a tear and needed to take 3 weeks off from high impact activities. I could only walk or use the elliptical.

It's been 3 weeks and while I no longer have a bulge in my crotch nor the "kicked in the nuts" sensation, when I tighten up my core, the injury area still feels week.

I imagine either the doc was wrong and I do need surgery OR I need more time to heal?

I googled "groin tear" and WebMD tells me the heal time is 4-6 weeks. Maybe my tear is more serious then the doc thought?

It's been 3 weeks

Well I've never had hernia, *knock on wood*... so but that sounds painful.
But I had a bunion a month ago on my right foot... combined with my ACL recovery on the left... I looked like an 80 year old man walking around lol. The bunion according to my podiatrist would last 2 weeks.... it lasted 5 weeks. So my point is... Doctor's estimations is very rough. Unless he/she actually told you you need surgery then I think give it another 2 weeks to see it out.

If the pain is unbearable I would go back to the doctor and ask for medicine or an alternative treatment... they usually have a 2nd and 3rd option. The first option is always the conservative ones for non serious injuries.

[AtheJ415]

People need to move on from IT. There are a ton of things that get conveniently ignored here.

1. Nobody, and I mean, nobody, thought IT was all that good. We got him for only $5.5 mill/year for a reason, and it wasn't because he was seen as a budding star. It was because he was seen league-wide as a short ball-stopping combo guard who wasn't a true PG and who was limited defensively due to his height.

2. We signed him outright and traded him for a first. Many say we should've held onto him to get more, but that completely ignores the perception of point 1. IT was solid here, just as he was in Sac, and league-wide people still had the same things to say about him. In fact, on this very board many of the same people lamenting the trade were constantly complaining about IT's ball-stopping here and blamed him for a ton of stuff. He was essentially our Brandon Knight. Most people seemed to blame him for Dragic's regression and then for saying he wanted to start (thus leading to discussion here that IT was arrogant/delusional of his limitations.

3. Not even Boston thought he would be this good. If they did, then they would've offered him a ton in FA to sign him away from us. The reason we only got a first wasn't due to some "panicked move". It was because nobody else across the league was willing to beat Boston's middling offer for IT. Do people here honestly believe we were just like, "F it, let's take the Boston offer without vetting our options with other teams"?

4. IT has been great this year. This may be his best year ever. And maybe he stays that way going forward, but Bledsoe was better than him back then and had a lot more upside. We made the right choice if this was an either/or scenario. Saying otherwise is just revisionist history due to unforeseen development by IT. I was on this board when he was moved, and I don't recall a single person claiming we should have built around IT and moved the other 2 PGs. Not a one. And at that time, Bledsoe on the market gets more than IT--because that was how the league viewed that battle as well. Bledsoe had more value. He doesn't anymore relative to IT but that's because IT has improved immensely and not a person saw that coming.

[TOO]

People need to move on from IT. There are a ton of things that get conveniently ignored here.

1. Nobody, and I mean, nobody, thought IT was all that good. We got him for only $5.5 mill/year for a reason, and it wasn't because he was seen as a budding star. It was because he was seen league-wide as a short ball-stopping combo guard who wasn't a true PG and who was limited defensively due to his height.

2. We signed him outright and traded him for a first. Many say we should've held onto him to get more, but that completely ignores the perception of point 1. IT was solid here, just as he was in Sac, and league-wide people still had the same things to say about him. In fact, on this very board many of the same people lamenting the trade were constantly complaining about IT's ball-stopping here and blamed him for a ton of stuff. He was essentially our Brandon Knight. Most people seemed to blame him for Dragic's regression and then for saying he wanted to start (thus leading to discussion here that IT was arrogant/delusional of his limitations.

3. Not even Boston thought he would be this good. If they did, then they would've offered him a ton in FA to sign him away from us. The reason we only got a first wasn't due to some "panicked move". It was because nobody else across the league was willing to beat Boston's middling offer for IT. Do people here honestly believe we were just like, "F it, let's take the Boston offer without vetting our options with other teams"?

4. IT has been great this year. This may be his best year ever. And maybe he stays that way going forward, but Bledsoe was better than him back then and had a lot more upside. We made the right choice if this was an either/or scenario. Saying otherwise is just revisionist history due to unforeseen development by IT. I was on this board when he was moved, and I don't recall a single person claiming we should have built around IT and moved the other 2 PGs. Not a one. And at that time, Bledsoe on the market gets more than IT--because that was how the league viewed that battle as well. Bledsoe had more value. He doesn't anymore relative to IT but that's because IT has improved immensely and not a person saw that coming.

Well said.

[batsmasher]

Okafor is being held out due to advanced trade talks. Like the first time ever that this has been the true reason for a resting.

Read on Twitter

[Mulhollanddrive]

Bledsoe was rested tonight just being cheeky (99% anyway).

[SideSwipe]

Okafor is being held out due to advanced trade talks. Like the first time ever that this has been the true reason for a resting.

Read on Twitter

Hmm Bledsoe also sitting....if that's what it is it better be a good return.

[bwgood77]

Okafor is being held out due to advanced trade talks. Like the first time ever that this has been the true reason for a resting.

Read on Twitter

Hmm Bledsoe also sitting....if that's what it is it better be a good return.

I was thinking Okafor to Memphis might make sense. They have done well with traditional bigs. Perfect guy for Zach Randolph to mentor (same early career problems, slow start to career, similar players, grew up, can relate, etc).

Not sure if Memphis has anyone Philly would want but it makes sense as a good spot for Okafor.

[asudevil]

Okafor is being held out due to advanced trade talks. Like the first time ever that this has been the true reason for a resting.

Read on Twitter

Hmm Bledsoe also sitting....if that's what it is it better be a good return.

When i heard that Chandler/Bledsoe were sitting the first thing that came to mind was a trade.....but not involving those two. What better way to let interested teams see a couple of players show their stuff uninhibited, than to sit the guys who start ahead of them. Len/Knight might have been given a showcase game tonight.

Of course Knight FAILED, and from looking at the box score he was benched in favor of Ulis.
But Len looked decent at least.

[mikefly3113]

Knight is garbage and has got to go. Unfortunately the only way were gonna convince a team to take him is if we take back a bad contract. Still think B Knight to Philly is the best for him and them.

B Knight for Okafor and Bayless.

I wanna take a chance on Okafor, dude has a ton of talent. Hopefully Chandler can mentor him and keep him in check. I hate Bayless but his contract is a little better and frankly I bet he gives us just as much production as Knight has this year.

[asudevil]

Knight is garbage and has got to go. Unfortunately the only way were gonna convince a team to take him is if we take back a bad contract. Still think B Knight to Philly is the best for him and them.

B Knight for Okafor and Bayless.

I wanna take a chance on Okafor, dude has a ton of talent. Hopefully Chandler can mentor him and keep him in check. I hate Bayless but his contract is a little better and frankly I bet he gives us just as much production as Knight has this year.

I dont think that swapping Bayless for Knight can justify giving up a 21 year old C with potential. Suns would need to give up more.

Suns trade: Len/Knight/2017 2nd
Sixers trade: Okafor/Bayless

Suns get out from under needing to spend a ton of money on resigning Len, and remove Knight's contract. Bayless/Okafor make $14mil next season combined while resigning Len and keeping Knight would probably cost double that. We have enough youth where an early 2nd isnt completely necessary.

Sixers gain the PG depth they need. Knight may be able to re-establish himself as a decent player. The 2017 2nd is another pick which Philly loves to collect. Len gives them more quality D depth up front. Imagine a rotation of Embidd/Noel/Len/Simmons/Saric up front in a year or two. Knight expires as Simmons/Saric need extensions, so his salary becomes filler to keep them at the threshold for a few years.

[King4Day]

People need to move on from IT. There are a ton of things that get conveniently ignored here.

1. Nobody, and I mean, nobody, thought IT was all that good. We got him for only $5.5 mill/year for a reason, and it wasn't because he was seen as a budding star. It was because he was seen league-wide as a short ball-stopping combo guard who wasn't a true PG and who was limited defensively due to his height.

2. We signed him outright and traded him for a first. Many say we should've held onto him to get more, but that completely ignores the perception of point 1. IT was solid here, just as he was in Sac, and league-wide people still had the same things to say about him. In fact, on this very board many of the same people lamenting the trade were constantly complaining about IT's ball-stopping here and blamed him for a ton of stuff. He was essentially our Brandon Knight. Most people seemed to blame him for Dragic's regression and then for saying he wanted to start (thus leading to discussion here that IT was arrogant/delusional of his limitations.

3. Not even Boston thought he would be this good. If they did, then they would've offered him a ton in FA to sign him away from us. The reason we only got a first wasn't due to some "panicked move". It was because nobody else across the league was willing to beat Boston's middling offer for IT. Do people here honestly believe we were just like, "F it, let's take the Boston offer without vetting our options with other teams"?

4. IT has been great this year. This may be his best year ever. And maybe he stays that way going forward, but Bledsoe was better than him back then and had a lot more upside. We made the right choice if this was an either/or scenario. Saying otherwise is just revisionist history due to unforeseen development by IT. I was on this board when he was moved, and I don't recall a single person claiming we should have built around IT and moved the other 2 PGs. Not a one. And at that time, Bledsoe on the market gets more than IT--because that was how the league viewed that battle as well. Bledsoe had more value. He doesn't anymore relative to IT but that's because IT has improved immensely and not a person saw that coming.

You need to save this post and defend the Suns with it anytime this is brought up in our forum or the general board. Great post!

[King4Day]

Okafor is being held out due to advanced trade talks. Like the first time ever that this has been the true reason for a resting.

Read on Twitter

Hmm Bledsoe also sitting....if that's what it is it better be a good return.

Sounds like the Bulls and Blazers are the 2 teams (or just 2 teams interested) per espn

The Pelicans and Sixers have been engaged in serious trade talks centered around Okafor all week, but Philadelphia is believed to be talking to other teams, as well, reportedly including the Trail Blazers and Bulls.

[Villalobos]

People need to move on from IT. There are a ton of things that get conveniently ignored here.

1. Nobody, and I mean, nobody, thought IT was all that good. We got him for only $5.5 mill/year for a reason, and it wasn't because he was seen as a budding star. It was because he was seen league-wide as a short ball-stopping combo guard who wasn't a true PG and who was limited defensively due to his height.

2. We signed him outright and traded him for a first. Many say we should've held onto him to get more, but that completely ignores the perception of point 1. IT was solid here, just as he was in Sac, and league-wide people still had the same things to say about him. In fact, on this very board many of the same people lamenting the trade were constantly complaining about IT's ball-stopping here and blamed him for a ton of stuff. He was essentially our Brandon Knight. Most people seemed to blame him for Dragic's regression and then for saying he wanted to start (thus leading to discussion here that IT was arrogant/delusional of his limitations.

3. Not even Boston thought he would be this good. If they did, then they would've offered him a ton in FA to sign him away from us. The reason we only got a first wasn't due to some "panicked move". It was because nobody else across the league was willing to beat Boston's middling offer for IT. Do people here honestly believe we were just like, "F it, let's take the Boston offer without vetting our options with other teams"?

4. IT has been great this year. This may be his best year ever. And maybe he stays that way going forward, but Bledsoe was better than him back then and had a lot more upside. We made the right choice if this was an either/or scenario. Saying otherwise is just revisionist history due to unforeseen development by IT. I was on this board when he was moved, and I don't recall a single person claiming we should have built around IT and moved the other 2 PGs. Not a one. And at that time, Bledsoe on the market gets more than IT--because that was how the league viewed that battle as well. Bledsoe had more value. He doesn't anymore relative to IT but that's because IT has improved immensely and not a person saw that coming.

3b. Ainge/Brad Stevens obviously didn't think that much of him because he didn't start that entire season they traded for him for 21 games. He was seen as a sixth-man Jamal Crawford type, not a starter. He didn't even start at the beginning of his breakout year. IT had to convince them. Smart was still starting and bricking everything in sight for 30 minutes a game for the first few of games until he got hurt. It probably would have taken IT a lot longer to convince them he was a starter, let alone an all-star, if Boston's second best PG wasn't trash like Marcus Smart, and even THEN it still took Smart getting hurt. You think he would have gotten a serious chance like that if they had a good PG? Not unless there was a serious injury.

[BobbieL]

Melo to the clippers
they need to offload bad contracts, Jamal Crawford

I would almost take Jamal Crawford over Brandon Knight right now
he is just not giving anything

I doubt the Bulls would even take him for Rondo as can't they just waive Rondo now since next year is not guaranteed anyway.

[Kerrsed]

Anyone else think the Blazers absolutely ripped off the Nuggets?

I mean i have Nurkic as being better than Plumlee.....and somehow the Blazers also got a 1st out of it for taking on Nurkic, while Plumlee is an expiring and also get a Blazers 2nd.