Official Trade Thread - Part XXXII

[Meliorus]

...you can't take your opportunities for granted in the NBA IMO. ...John Wall isn't old or anything, but he's in his prime, right now. The peak window is 2-3 years, you have to take a shot while you have the best opportunity(which might be right now IMO).

If you have a starting 5 of Wall/Beal/Porter/Morris/Gortat (one of the best starting units in the NBA) with 2 legit bench guys (Williams, Mahinmi), at least you have a shot. Realistically, they probably need some luck and 1 more guy to step up if they're going to win (Oubre, ideally, since I wouldn't trust Burke or Thornton or whoever), but I'd at least take a shot.

Makes good sense. But, if Williams costs us a R1 pick he hampers our chances 2-3 years from now, when Wall is still in his peak, Beal is at his, Porter ditto, Sato a much more complete player (hopfully), etc. So there's another variable to that calculation.

Plus, if we'd have a shot with Williams, it'd only be because of how streaky he is: catch the up streak at the right time, and it can make a difference in a single series.

OTOH, there are the down streaks as well. I wouldn't trade the future for a long-odds bet. If we were one player from a really solid chance to win the EC, sure. But... we're not.

If we can get Lou for a 2nd round pick, it may be worth it. That dude is putting up big time stats on a horrible team.

[payitforward]

Thinking on it now--if Ted was willing to pay I wouldn't be against Mahinmi for Ibaka straight up. I'd forgotten the Vogel connection. Yea...I'm not hyped about paying Ibaka a max, but 40% corner 3 with elite help defense at age 27 is probably not an opportunity we'll get again. It's looking increasingly likely that Cousins isn't walking through that door, so this is probably our last chance at a free agent all-star potential acquisition during the Wall era outside of a late 1st becoming the next Giannas.

Well, yeah, of course you make that trade. & then you let Ibaka go this off season, & you just got yourself out of a big FA mistake w/ Mahinmi.

But, despite the Vogel connection, I can't see Orlando taking on that contract. They have Biyombo, Vucevic, the rookie Zimmerman, etc. No way.

[payitforward]

i mean, a few years ago the wizards fanbase was drooling over the guy, thinking he would be the perfect 3rd piece next to wall and beal. now he's VERY available. Hezonja is also VERY available, and under contract for 3 years for cheap.

you have the bird rights to ibaka and otto so you can possibly retain both with some salary maneuvering. the magic GM is an idiot, keep that in mind.

I could do without Hezonja unless we can get him for practically nothing. If you max Ibaka and Otto, a contract like Markieffs becomes too valuable for the sake of depth. We wouldn't be adding anyone else to this team except for vet mins and first round contracts.

****...now I want to do the deal. Might actually save us from making a mistake and trading the pick for a scrub like Brandon Knight.

Yeah I'm starting to get a little hot and bothered myself. Someone come in here and smack us.

My favorite role!

Fans were drooling over Ibaka 3 years ago, because he was a heck of a player. He has declined significantly the last few years. But, someone will give him a big 2-3 year contract in the off season all the same. There are teams with enough salary flexibility that it's worth it for them to take a chance that he returns to previous form. But, the Wizards are not one of those teams, as should be obvious.

The time to acquire a player is when he's on his way up not down. A player you acquire on his way up is an asset more likely to gain value than lose it. That means you have a far better chance for him to become part of your core, & a better chance to move him if you need to, & you're far more likely to get more back for him than in the other scenario.

A perfect case study is Trevor Booker. We acquired him in the draft, & he was a tremendous bargain on his rookie contract. Then, instead of extending him, say for 3-4 years @$5-6m -- which we could have done easily -- we let him go for nothing.

Now, Booker is having an outstanding year for Brooklyn & is a bargain at $9.2m; had we extended him, he'd be playing for us instead at $5-6m. Imagine him instead of Nicholson. We'd be a better team, & he'd be a very tradable asset as well.

[Meliorus]

I could do without Hezonja unless we can get him for practically nothing. If you max Ibaka and Otto, a contract like Markieffs becomes too valuable for the sake of depth. We wouldn't be adding anyone else to this team except for vet mins and first round contracts.

****...now I want to do the deal. Might actually save us from making a mistake and trading the pick for a scrub like Brandon Knight.

Yeah I'm starting to get a little hot and bothered myself. Someone come in here and smack us.

My favorite role!

Fans were drooling over Ibaka 3 years ago, because he was a heck of a player. He has declined significantly the last few years. But, someone will give him a big 2-3 year contract in the off season all the same. There are teams with enough salary flexibility that it's worth it for them to take a chance that he returns to previous form. But, the Wizards are not one of those teams, as should be obvious.

The time to acquire a player is when he's on his way up not down. A player you acquire on his way up is an asset more likely to gain value than lose it. That means you have a far better chance for him to become part of your core, & a better chance to move him if you need to, & you're far more likely to get more back for him than in the other scenario.

A perfect case study is Trevor Booker. We acquired him in the draft, & he was a tremendous bargain on his rookie contract. Then, instead of extending him, say for 3-4 years @$5-6m -- which we could have done easily -- we let him go for nothing.

Now, Booker is having an outstanding year for Brooklyn & is a bargain at $9.2m; had we extended him, he'd be playing for us instead at $5-6m. Imagine him instead of Nicholson. We'd be a better team, & he'd be a very tradable asset as well.

Really have to factor in Grunfeld saving cap space for KD 2 DC. He made sure that nobody was signed coming into this past summer. We could have gotten a bunch of bargain long-term deals in the summer of 2015 or 2014, but we had to make sure everybody was off the books.

Because we needed money for Durant, which turned into Horford, which turned into Nicholson/Mahinmi.

It's been said a few times that great teams never plan to save cap space in advance. They wait for the player to sign and then clear the necessary cap space. They keep building the best possible team without thinking about the future cap. After the Hawks series, we didn't do that.

[heatcharger]

Is there a way we could unload Mahinmi and upgrade our bench? I thought of this more or less plausible trade:

Wizards get: Lou Williams, Serge Ibaka, D.J. Augustin
Lakers get: Jason Smith, Trey Burke, 2017 Wizards 1st Rd Pick (No Protections)
Magic get: Ian Mahinmi, Kelly Oubre Jr.

We get a prolific scorer in Lou Will, a more serviceable backup PG in Augustin, and a rental big man to strengthen our frontline. Plus, assuming Ibaka walks, we have more flexibility in re-signing Otto. Like someone said though, the Magic probably don't want to take that contract back, but maybe the promise of Oubre sweetens the deal enough.

[bealwithit]

I could do without Hezonja unless we can get him for practically nothing. If you max Ibaka and Otto, a contract like Markieffs becomes too valuable for the sake of depth. We wouldn't be adding anyone else to this team except for vet mins and first round contracts.

****...now I want to do the deal. Might actually save us from making a mistake and trading the pick for a scrub like Brandon Knight.

Yeah I'm starting to get a little hot and bothered myself. Someone come in here and smack us.

My favorite role!

Fans were drooling over Ibaka 3 years ago, because he was a heck of a player. He has declined significantly the last few years. But, someone will give him a big 2-3 year contract in the off season all the same. There are teams with enough salary flexibility that it's worth it for them to take a chance that he returns to previous form. But, the Wizards are not one of those teams, as should be obvious.

The time to acquire a player is when he's on his way up not down. A player you acquire on his way up is an asset more likely to gain value than lose it. That means you have a far better chance for him to become part of your core, & a better chance to move him if you need to, & you're far more likely to get more back for him than in the other scenario.

A perfect case study is Trevor Booker. We acquired him in the draft, & he was a tremendous bargain on his rookie contract. Then, instead of extending him, say for 3-4 years @$5-6m -- which we could have done easily -- we let him go for nothing.

Now, Booker is having an outstanding year for Brooklyn & is a bargain at $9.2m; had we extended him, he'd be playing for us instead at $5-6m. Imagine him instead of Nicholson. We'd be a better team, & he'd be a very tradable asset as well.

Thank you PIF!


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[NatP4]

Is there a way we could unload Mahinmi and upgrade our bench? I thought of this more or less plausible trade:

Wizards get: Lou Williams, Serge Ibaka, D.J. Augustin
Lakers get: Jason Smith, Trey Burke, 2017 Wizards 1st Rd Pick (No Protections)
Magic get: Ian Mahinmi, Kelly Oubre Jr.

We get a prolific scorer in Lou Will, a more serviceable backup PG in Augustin, and a rental big man to strengthen our frontline. Plus, assuming Ibaka walks, we have more flexibility in re-signing Otto. Like someone said though, the Magic probably don't want to take that contract back, but maybe the promise of Oubre sweetens the deal enough.

[Meliorus]

Is there a way we could unload Mahinmi and upgrade our bench? I thought of this more or less plausible trade:

Wizards get: Lou Williams, Serge Ibaka, D.J. Augustin
Lakers get: Jason Smith, Trey Burke, 2017 Wizards 1st Rd Pick (No Protections)
Magic get: Ian Mahinmi, Kelly Oubre Jr.

We get a prolific scorer in Lou Will, a more serviceable backup PG in Augustin, and a rental big man to strengthen our frontline. Plus, assuming Ibaka walks, we have more flexibility in re-signing Otto. Like someone said though, the Magic probably don't want to take that contract back, but maybe the promise of Oubre sweetens the deal enough.

Yes a rental would be awesome! So basically what you're suggesting is giving up a 1st + Oubre for nothing!

[NatP4]

maybe we could steal will barton for a 2nd. we acquired Okafor, Ariza for a bad contract and a 2nd, Andre Miller for a 2nd, Sessions for Andre Miller. Hopefully Ernie has some deals on the table where the other teams are just waiting till the deadline to see if they can get a better deal, and because of the sellers market, we get to lowball some team like the Nuggets.

i get the feeling that Ernie's target is some player that none of us have mentioned, they've already come out and said they have zero interest in Barton and Ibaka.

[NatP4]

Is there a way we could unload Mahinmi and upgrade our bench? I thought of this more or less plausible trade:

Wizards get: Lou Williams, Serge Ibaka, D.J. Augustin
Lakers get: Jason Smith, Trey Burke, 2017 Wizards 1st Rd Pick (No Protections)
Magic get: Ian Mahinmi, Kelly Oubre Jr.

We get a prolific scorer in Lou Will, a more serviceable backup PG in Augustin, and a rental big man to strengthen our frontline. Plus, assuming Ibaka walks, we have more flexibility in re-signing Otto. Like someone said though, the Magic probably don't want to take that contract back, but maybe the promise of Oubre sweetens the deal enough.

Yes a rental would be awesome! So basically what you're suggesting is giving up a 1st + Oubre for nothing!

this is the type of trade that leads a team into years of mediocrity.

[gambitx777]

Look I think most of us would be ok with trading for Ibaka if
A. he agreed to a reasonable extrantion with player options so he is essentially signing a deal saying ill at least stay 1 year with yall.
and #2 the deal involved mahinmi and a 2018 first.
That in a nut shell is what would be except able which as well as we are playing the chance at a finals run in the east maybe he says sure ill stay another year for 17-19 mill lets do it and if he wants he can keep the other years on the deal if he thinks he likes it here or if he thinks he won't get more money else where. But that is still super unlikely because as many point out some team might toss him 22 mill and thats a lot of money to turn down.

[NatP4]

Look I think most of us would be ok with trading for Ibaka if
A. he agreed to a reasonable extrantion with player options so he is essentially signing a deal saying ill at least stay 1 year with yall.
and #2 the deal involved mahinmi and a 2018 first.
That in a nut shell is what would be except able which as well as we are playing the chance at a finals run in the east maybe he says sure ill stay another year for 17-19 mill lets do it and if he wants he can keep the other years on the deal if he thinks he likes it here or if he thinks he won't get more money else where. But that is still super unlikely because as many point out some team might toss him 22 mill and thats a lot of money to turn down.

I would not be okay with that deal. Id rather keep Mahinmi for 4 years and our 1st round pick than get a rental of Ibaka

[WarriorsLakers]

Is there a way we could unload Mahinmi and upgrade our bench? I thought of this more or less plausible trade:

Wizards get: Lou Williams, Serge Ibaka, D.J. Augustin
Lakers get: Jason Smith, Trey Burke, 2017 Wizards 1st Rd Pick (No Protections)
Magic get: Ian Mahinmi, Kelly Oubre Jr.

We get a prolific scorer in Lou Will, a more serviceable backup PG in Augustin, and a rental big man to strengthen our frontline. Plus, assuming Ibaka walks, we have more flexibility in re-signing Otto. Like someone said though, the Magic probably don't want to take that contract back, but maybe the promise of Oubre sweetens the deal enough.

meh, the 20-24th pick is not worth taking back Jason Smith and losing value that Lou brings

[deneem4]

Is there a way we could unload Mahinmi and upgrade our bench? I thought of this more or less plausible trade:

Wizards get: Lou Williams, Serge Ibaka, D.J. Augustin
Lakers get: Jason Smith, Trey Burke, 2017 Wizards 1st Rd Pick (No Protections)
Magic get: Ian Mahinmi, Kelly Oubre Jr.

We get a prolific scorer in Lou Will, a more serviceable backup PG in Augustin, and a rental big man to strengthen our frontline. Plus, assuming Ibaka walks, we have more flexibility in re-signing Otto. Like someone said though, the Magic probably don't want to take that contract back, but maybe the promise of Oubre sweetens the deal enough.

meh, the 20-24th pick is not worth taking back Jason Smith and losing value that Lou brings

Horrible...we lose the pick and most importantly oubre who would probably become the best player on the magic

[gambitx777]

Look I think most of us would be ok with trading for Ibaka if
A. he agreed to a reasonable extrantion with player options so he is essentially signing a deal saying ill at least stay 1 year with yall.
and #2 the deal involved mahinmi and a 2018 first.
That in a nut shell is what would be except able which as well as we are playing the chance at a finals run in the east maybe he says sure ill stay another year for 17-19 mill lets do it and if he wants he can keep the other years on the deal if he thinks he likes it here or if he thinks he won't get more money else where. But that is still super unlikely because as many point out some team might toss him 22 mill and thats a lot of money to turn down.

I would not be okay with that deal. Id rather keep Mahinmi for 4 years and our 1st round pick than get a rental of Ibaka

a few things to think about
Mhinmi is owed 3 more years at 16 mill
if you talk Ibaka into a 3 year extension at 17-19 mill a year with player options in the last 2, you have him guaranteed for one more year, so he is no longer a rental, because you get him for the rest of this season and all of next. He can stay just as long as mahinmi would be here, at not much more money. He is comparable on D, can be as good of a rebounded, and is way better on offence. A 3 man roataion of morris gortat and Ibaka is killer compared to gortat, morris, smith and mahinmi. If he leaves on a player options, we save a **** ton of money. Plus we keep our 2017 pick in a really really good draft. 2018 might not be, who knows, but One you get a better player, who can play and defend 2 positions, and you get more potential cap flexibility over mahinmi. Plus if Orlando is desperate enough to get a first back for Ibaka, that they will take Mahinmi, and Ibaka agrees to stay 1 more year before you make that deal. You might not find a deal like that to move Mahinmi ever again. IM not saying any of this will happen, but if it does its hard to pass up.

[WarriorsLakers]

Is there a way we could unload Mahinmi and upgrade our bench? I thought of this more or less plausible trade:

Wizards get: Lou Williams, Serge Ibaka, D.J. Augustin
Lakers get: Jason Smith, Trey Burke, 2017 Wizards 1st Rd Pick (No Protections)
Magic get: Ian Mahinmi, Kelly Oubre Jr.

We get a prolific scorer in Lou Will, a more serviceable backup PG in Augustin, and a rental big man to strengthen our frontline. Plus, assuming Ibaka walks, we have more flexibility in re-signing Otto. Like someone said though, the Magic probably don't want to take that contract back, but maybe the promise of Oubre sweetens the deal enough.

meh, the 20-24th pick is not worth taking back Jason Smith and losing value that Lou brings

Horrible...we lose the pick and most importantly oubre who would probably become the best player on the magic

now if we do straight up Lou/ 1 or 2 2nd's for Oubre, we can

[bealwithit]

Any trade involving Oubre should not even be posted unless it's for a bonafide star. Don't even type it up.

[NatP4]

Look I think most of us would be ok with trading for Ibaka if
A. he agreed to a reasonable extrantion with player options so he is essentially signing a deal saying ill at least stay 1 year with yall.
and #2 the deal involved mahinmi and a 2018 first.
That in a nut shell is what would be except able which as well as we are playing the chance at a finals run in the east maybe he says sure ill stay another year for 17-19 mill lets do it and if he wants he can keep the other years on the deal if he thinks he likes it here or if he thinks he won't get more money else where. But that is still super unlikely because as many point out some team might toss him 22 mill and thats a lot of money to turn down.

I would not be okay with that deal. Id rather keep Mahinmi for 4 years and our 1st round pick than get a rental of Ibaka

a few things to think about
Mhinmi is owed 3 more years at 16 mill
if you talk Ibaka into a 3 year extension at 17-19 mill a year with player options in the last 2, you have him guaranteed for one more year, so he is no longer a rental, because you get him for the rest of this season and all of next. He can stay just as long as mahinmi would be here, at not much more money. He is comparable on D, can be as good of a rebounded, and is way better on offence. A 3 man roataion of morris gortat and Ibaka is killer compared to gortat, morris, smith and mahinmi. If he leaves on a player options, we save a **** ton of money. Plus we keep our 2017 pick in a really really good draft. 2018 might not be, who knows, but One you get a better player, who can play and defend 2 positions, and you get more potential cap flexibility over mahinmi. Plus if Orlando is desperate enough to get a first back for Ibaka, that they will take Mahinmi, and Ibaka agrees to stay 1 more year before you make that deal. You might not find a deal like that to move Mahinmi ever again. IM not saying any of this will happen, but if it does its hard to pass up.

I hear everything you're saying, but I would need to see Hezonja coming back to us in that deal.

[gambitx777]

I would not be okay with that deal. Id rather keep Mahinmi for 4 years and our 1st round pick than get a rental of Ibaka

a few things to think about
Mhinmi is owed 3 more years at 16 mill
if you talk Ibaka into a 3 year extension at 17-19 mill a year with player options in the last 2, you have him guaranteed for one more year, so he is no longer a rental, because you get him for the rest of this season and all of next. He can stay just as long as mahinmi would be here, at not much more money. He is comparable on D, can be as good of a rebounded, and is way better on offence. A 3 man roataion of morris gortat and Ibaka is killer compared to gortat, morris, smith and mahinmi. If he leaves on a player options, we save a **** ton of money. Plus we keep our 2017 pick in a really really good draft. 2018 might not be, who knows, but One you get a better player, who can play and defend 2 positions, and you get more potential cap flexibility over mahinmi. Plus if Orlando is desperate enough to get a first back for Ibaka, that they will take Mahinmi, and Ibaka agrees to stay 1 more year before you make that deal. You might not find a deal like that to move Mahinmi ever again. IM not saying any of this will happen, but if it does its hard to pass up.

I hear everything you're saying, but I would need to see Hezonja coming back to us in that deal.

See I think Henzonja is like 3 years, a lot of hours lifting and a lot of protein supplements away from being a viable NBA player. Like, hes just one of those weird athletic big out of positions European dudes that almost never pan out. he made to play 2 in the NBA, he needs to beef up and play small ball 4, I think thats where he needs to go, Like Vesley I always thought he needs to just beef up and play center, I don't know why we always try to play these euro dudes in the wrong spots. Like I know tomas is big for a PG but hes a PG who can sometimes play two in europe because they basically run two PGs over there. Don't try to turn him into a wing. Henzonja, not a guard, not really a wing, make him a small ball 4. but thats going to take years. But Orlando has the rights to two kids under 25 right now over in europe that I would be ok if they gave us. Janis Timma (24) playing really well in europe and probably NBA ready at his position (wing SF) and Tyler Harvey (23) who is a really interesting SG prospect.

[nate33]

Is there a way we could unload Mahinmi and upgrade our bench? I thought of this more or less plausible trade:

Wizards get: Lou Williams, Serge Ibaka, D.J. Augustin
Lakers get: Jason Smith, Trey Burke, 2017 Wizards 1st Rd Pick (No Protections)
Magic get: Ian Mahinmi, Kelly Oubre Jr.

We get a prolific scorer in Lou Will, a more serviceable backup PG in Augustin, and a rental big man to strengthen our frontline. Plus, assuming Ibaka walks, we have more flexibility in re-signing Otto. Like someone said though, the Magic probably don't want to take that contract back, but maybe the promise of Oubre sweetens the deal enough.

If we let Ibaka walk (which we would ultimately have to do), then we just traded Oubre, Smith and Mahinmi for a 30-year-old Lou Williams.

You just upgraded the backcourt while gutting our forward rotation and our backup big man rotation, all while giving away a pick. This is one of the worst trades I've ever seen.