The Trade Thread II

[Xatticus]

Boston with Ibaka is still a pretty big underdog to Cleveland in the playoffs. Playoffs are all about talent, and IT/Ibaka/Horford is just not gonna be up to snuff vs Lebron/Kyrie/Love. Trading Brown for Ibaka, when they can just go out and offer Ibaka a contract this summer, is short sighted, and thats without getting into the fact that the 3rd overall pick in last years draft who's under contract for 4 more years is more valuable than an expiring Ibaka

It's really not that simple, or every series would end up in a sweep. I get that the lack of parity in the sport has led people to believe that the outcomes are foregone conclusions, but I've been following this league long enough to know that upsets happen. I've seen an eighth seed take out the top seeded team (five times), and I've seen a sixth seeded team win the NBA Finals.

LeBron, for all of the hype, has lost in the playoffs many times. One injury can completely change the complexion of the playoffs (Cleveland probably isn't the reigning champs if not for a Curry slip). If a team wants to take the deterministic approach and throw in the towel preemptively, they certainly have the right to do that.

It's a risk-reward situation. It's just not worth it; Celts have max capspace this summer, they can go out and try to sign Ibaka/Milsap other big name while retaining Brown or they can put together an incredible package for any disgruntled superstar that comes on the market in the next 2 years. What they dont need to do and shouldnt even consider is overpaying for an expiring Ibaka. And Bird rights shouldnt mean much in this situation as Boston doesnt want to give Ibaka a max contract

I said this before, but I imagine the Magic will end up keeping him. The truth is, no team will pony up much for a guy who can potentially walk at the end of the season, and the few teams who would/should be taking that risk (actual contenders) don't have the assets. Hennigan would look pretty bad for selling a guy for less than he paid for him 6 months ago

I get it. If I'm Boston, I wouldn't give up Brown to get Ibaka either, but only because I would prefer to keep him as a trade chip for a player I really did covet.

While some folks around here would love to get Brown, I'm not among them. He doesn't interest me even slightly. He is an athletic wing that can't shoot. Those aren't rare. He wasn't good in college last year and he hasn't been good in his rookie season. Paying him 30 million over the next five seasons to watch him learn to play basketball doesn't appeal to me.

[Jameerthefear]

Magic fan here, don't witch hunt me for saying this xD

Would anyone be up for a trade where we give Ibaka to Boston where we get ability to swap ours to that Brooklyn pick, for basically fillers from them besides that swap? (if that's even possible, I'm honestly not sure anymore, in which case Boston would get worse from ours and Brooklyns...)
Reasons for this: We clearly need a guaranteed star. Fultz and Ball are just that, or at least the closest thing to that that we can get. Boston is filled with guards on that squad. From what I've heard from their fans, they would be fine with one of those SF from positions 1-6 on the draft board now. From our standpoint, I think it would make sense, cause we would add +25% to our chances of getting no1 pick in this draft.

Why Boston does it? Well, it would seem that after getting that pick swap, we would try to win as many games as possible? Well what if there was a guarantee that wouldn't happen? Something like us trading Vučević for some future payoff, whether that be a pick, or a young project. Plus the fact that we would really really REALLY like to push Lakers out of the top 3, to get their 2019. pick. This way, you move Gordon back to PF (but play him at SF from time to time, for matchup purposes, like when Austin Rivers plays SF ffs xD), keep Payton for now if you can, if you don't package him with Vuch. Start Biyombo next to Gordon, start Hezonja on SF, keep Fournier, keep Payton, shop last two next season if good opportunity approaches. if Vučević brings you young player, play him as first one off the bench, if he brings you pick, trust in GMs drafting ability, whoever that GM might be. Lose Green, CJ next year, tolerate DJ for one more year with Fultz/Ball and Payton, and this time, try to build balanced team for Vogel, and not this mess we have right now...
I just think this would put us in battle for playoffs in season after the next one, instead of tricking ourselves that we're fighting for PO every season... That is until January comes ofc xD

That is if it's even possible to have potential swap on swapped pick. If not, I'll show myself out... xD

Think about what you're saying though, if Fultz and Ball are guaranteed stars why would Boston trade the best chance of getting them for an expiring Ibaka?

[red96]

His price is whatever Orlando management is willing to accept in return. Economics is about supply and demand. The demand for Ibaka is healthy. If you are holding out hope that you will get him for a late first and one of your bad contracts, you will be disappointed.

Yes, Orlando controls his price, but not his value. The Magic only control what Ibaka's is worth to themselves. The league decides what 2 months of Ibaka is worth. If the best offer for Ibaka is only a late 2nd round pick(just an example), that's what the league deemed as his value. Its up to the Magic to either take what they feel is the best offer or take their chances in the off-season.

Right. But the price is really the only thing that's relevant for us. The Magic can simply let his contract expire and either attempt to re-sign him or let him walk and spend that money elsewhere.

The trade deadline is still almost two weeks out and no fewer than eight teams have already been linked with Ibaka. Fans of other teams keep coming in and expressing interest in him. Fans of Boston and Toronto, on the other hand, keep trying to explain the economics of the situation and rationalize why Orlando should accept some crap offer from them because... while they are interested, they aren't really really interested. Fine. Go back to your board and forget about acquiring Ibaka.

I agree with most of your post. For one, I don't think that my favorite team will acquire Ibaka and I didn't say the Magic should take a crap offer. All I said was that if the Magic don't like the offers Ibaka get's, they could just wait to see what the off-season has in store. What's out of line about that?

[red96]

It's really not that simple, or every series would end up in a sweep. I get that the lack of parity in the sport has led people to believe that the outcomes are foregone conclusions, but I've been following this league long enough to know that upsets happen. I've seen an eighth seed take out the top seeded team (five times), and I've seen a sixth seeded team win the NBA Finals.

LeBron, for all of the hype, has lost in the playoffs many times. One injury can completely change the complexion of the playoffs (Cleveland probably isn't the reigning champs if not for a Curry slip). If a team wants to take the deterministic approach and throw in the towel preemptively, they certainly have the right to do that.

It's a risk-reward situation. It's just not worth it; Celts have max capspace this summer, they can go out and try to sign Ibaka/Milsap other big name while retaining Brown or they can put together an incredible package for any disgruntled superstar that comes on the market in the next 2 years. What they dont need to do and shouldnt even consider is overpaying for an expiring Ibaka. And Bird rights shouldnt mean much in this situation as Boston doesnt want to give Ibaka a max contract

I said this before, but I imagine the Magic will end up keeping him. The truth is, no team will pony up much for a guy who can potentially walk at the end of the season, and the few teams who would/should be taking that risk (actual contenders) don't have the assets. Hennigan would look pretty bad for selling a guy for less than he paid for him 6 months ago

If you don't get an acceptable offer for Ibaka then just keep him and see what happens in the offseason. See what the market is and maybe he'll want to stay if a good player is drafted and an impact is made in free agency and if not then explore sign and trade deals.

S&T's no longer transfer bird rights, so there is no benefit for a player to agree to one. S&T's are pretty much dead.

[Xatticus]

Yes, Orlando controls his price, but not his value. The Magic only control what Ibaka's is worth to themselves. The league decides what 2 months of Ibaka is worth. If the best offer for Ibaka is only a late 2nd round pick(just an example), that's what the league deemed as his value. Its up to the Magic to either take what they feel is the best offer or take their chances in the off-season.

Right. But the price is really the only thing that's relevant for us. The Magic can simply let his contract expire and either attempt to re-sign him or let him walk and spend that money elsewhere.

The trade deadline is still almost two weeks out and no fewer than eight teams have already been linked with Ibaka. Fans of other teams keep coming in and expressing interest in him. Fans of Boston and Toronto, on the other hand, keep trying to explain the economics of the situation and rationalize why Orlando should accept some crap offer from them because... while they are interested, they aren't really really interested. Fine. Go back to your board and forget about acquiring Ibaka.

Damn youre sensitive. my mistake for offerring some crap offer when lucas nougeria is valued in toronto and cojo is no crap player either. Who are these 8 teams expressing interest? You named toronto and boston but how about the other 6? Just because hennigan gave up dipo, lotto pick to get ibaka, doesnt mean ibaka is worth such value.

We just signed Biyombo. Why would we want Nogueira? Cory Joseph isn't worth his contract. That makes him a net negative. I'd want one of your late first rounders just to take his contract off of you.

The Pelicans, Bulls, Blazers, Lakers, Rockets, and Heat have all been linked to Ibaka recently.

[Xatticus]

Yes, Orlando controls his price, but not his value. The Magic only control what Ibaka's is worth to themselves. The league decides what 2 months of Ibaka is worth. If the best offer for Ibaka is only a late 2nd round pick(just an example), that's what the league deemed as his value. Its up to the Magic to either take what they feel is the best offer or take their chances in the off-season.

Right. But the price is really the only thing that's relevant for us. The Magic can simply let his contract expire and either attempt to re-sign him or let him walk and spend that money elsewhere.

The trade deadline is still almost two weeks out and no fewer than eight teams have already been linked with Ibaka. Fans of other teams keep coming in and expressing interest in him. Fans of Boston and Toronto, on the other hand, keep trying to explain the economics of the situation and rationalize why Orlando should accept some crap offer from them because... while they are interested, they aren't really really interested. Fine. Go back to your board and forget about acquiring Ibaka.

I agree with most of your post. For one, I don't think that my favorite team will acquire Ibaka and I didn't say the Magic should take a crap offer. All I said was that if the Magic don't like the offers Ibaka get's, they could just wait to see what the off-season has in store. What's out of line about that?

Not a thing. The comment wasn't directed at you, but rather to the individuals that keep trying to explain why Terrence Ross and a 2nd rounder is all Ibaka is worth.

[Ik17]

Magic fan here, don't witch hunt me for saying this xD

Would anyone be up for a trade where we give Ibaka to Boston where we get ability to swap ours to that Brooklyn pick, for basically fillers from them besides that swap? (if that's even possible, I'm honestly not sure anymore, in which case Boston would get worse from ours and Brooklyns...)
Reasons for this: We clearly need a guaranteed star. Fultz and Ball are just that, or at least the closest thing to that that we can get. Boston is filled with guards on that squad. From what I've heard from their fans, they would be fine with one of those SF from positions 1-6 on the draft board now. From our standpoint, I think it would make sense, cause we would add +25% to our chances of getting no1 pick in this draft.

Why Boston does it? Well, it would seem that after getting that pick swap, we would try to win as many games as possible? Well what if there was a guarantee that wouldn't happen? Something like us trading Vučević for some future payoff, whether that be a pick, or a young project. Plus the fact that we would really really REALLY like to push Lakers out of the top 3, to get their 2019. pick. This way, you move Gordon back to PF (but play him at SF from time to time, for matchup purposes, like when Austin Rivers plays SF ffs xD), keep Payton for now if you can, if you don't package him with Vuch. Start Biyombo next to Gordon, start Hezonja on SF, keep Fournier, keep Payton, shop last two next season if good opportunity approaches. if Vučević brings you young player, play him as first one off the bench, if he brings you pick, trust in GMs drafting ability, whoever that GM might be. Lose Green, CJ next year, tolerate DJ for one more year with Fultz/Ball and Payton, and this time, try to build balanced team for Vogel, and not this mess we have right now...
I just think this would put us in battle for playoffs in season after the next one, instead of tricking ourselves that we're fighting for PO every season... That is until January comes ofc xD

That is if it's even possible to have potential swap on swapped pick. If not, I'll show myself out... xD

Think about what you're saying though, if Fultz and Ball are guaranteed stars why would Boston trade the best chance of getting them for an expiring Ibaka?

Right in the next sentence I wrote that they're closest thing to it, which, I think you cannot argue with. And they wouldn't get only Ibaka, they would have him, plus worst case scenario 7th pick in this draft, which can still develop to be a star player, cause they all have so much potential. They're not getting scubs next to Ibaka, that's for sure, and btw, there's a still chance they get top 3 pick if balls go crazy in their favor xD
The reason why I'm pulling this potential trade is, I'm tired of having bad shooters on positions where it's needed to have good shooters, doing this would get us 40+% shooting PG, and would move Gordon to PF, where his 3pt% is actually above average if I'm not mistaken...

[mademan]

It's really not that simple, or every series would end up in a sweep. I get that the lack of parity in the sport has led people to believe that the outcomes are foregone conclusions, but I've been following this league long enough to know that upsets happen. I've seen an eighth seed take out the top seeded team (five times), and I've seen a sixth seeded team win the NBA Finals.

LeBron, for all of the hype, has lost in the playoffs many times. One injury can completely change the complexion of the playoffs (Cleveland probably isn't the reigning champs if not for a Curry slip). If a team wants to take the deterministic approach and throw in the towel preemptively, they certainly have the right to do that.

It's a risk-reward situation. It's just not worth it; Celts have max capspace this summer, they can go out and try to sign Ibaka/Milsap other big name while retaining Brown or they can put together an incredible package for any disgruntled superstar that comes on the market in the next 2 years. What they dont need to do and shouldnt even consider is overpaying for an expiring Ibaka. And Bird rights shouldnt mean much in this situation as Boston doesnt want to give Ibaka a max contract

I said this before, but I imagine the Magic will end up keeping him. The truth is, no team will pony up much for a guy who can potentially walk at the end of the season, and the few teams who would/should be taking that risk (actual contenders) don't have the assets. Hennigan would look pretty bad for selling a guy for less than he paid for him 6 months ago

If you don't get an acceptable offer for Ibaka then just keep him and see what happens in the offseason. See what the market is and maybe he'll want to stay if a good player is drafted and an impact is made in free agency and if not then explore sign and trade deals.

This is what I see happening. Ibaka gets signed long term (overpaid probably) and the Magic try to trade him again next year

[nbafan341]

Right. But the price is really the only thing that's relevant for us. The Magic can simply let his contract expire and either attempt to re-sign him or let him walk and spend that money elsewhere.

The trade deadline is still almost two weeks out and no fewer than eight teams have already been linked with Ibaka. Fans of other teams keep coming in and expressing interest in him. Fans of Boston and Toronto, on the other hand, keep trying to explain the economics of the situation and rationalize why Orlando should accept some crap offer from them because... while they are interested, they aren't really really interested. Fine. Go back to your board and forget about acquiring Ibaka.

Damn youre sensitive. my mistake for offerring some crap offer when lucas nougeria is valued in toronto and cojo is no crap player either. Who are these 8 teams expressing interest? You named toronto and boston but how about the other 6? Just because hennigan gave up dipo, lotto pick to get ibaka, doesnt mean ibaka is worth such value.

We just signed Biyombo. Why would we want Nogueira? Cory Joseph isn't worth his contract. That makes him a net negative. I'd want one of your late first rounders just to take his contract off of you.

The Pelicans, Bulls, Blazers, Lakers, Rockets, and Heat have all been linked to Ibaka recently.

Cojo + our first rounder is a fair trade. I included nougeria instead of a first rounder as some ppl commented that the first rounder is too late. Also, maybe you only watched cojo during the times that hes faced orlando where the raptors had wet the bed twice against orlando, but hea definitely playing at his contract value. In fact, hes underpaid by nba contracts being handed out. Frank vogel would do that trade if he had to give his 2cents, cojo was tearing it up in the first round of the pacers vs raptors.

Also, about biyombo, raptor would take him back, we'd give yall demarre carroll who has 2 more years left on his contract after this season (28mil).

[nbafan341]

Right. But the price is really the only thing that's relevant for us. The Magic can simply let his contract expire and either attempt to re-sign him or let him walk and spend that money elsewhere.

The trade deadline is still almost two weeks out and no fewer than eight teams have already been linked with Ibaka. Fans of other teams keep coming in and expressing interest in him. Fans of Boston and Toronto, on the other hand, keep trying to explain the economics of the situation and rationalize why Orlando should accept some crap offer from them because... while they are interested, they aren't really really interested. Fine. Go back to your board and forget about acquiring Ibaka.

I agree with most of your post. For one, I don't think that my favorite team will acquire Ibaka and I didn't say the Magic should take a crap offer. All I said was that if the Magic don't like the offers Ibaka get's, they could just wait to see what the off-season has in store. What's out of line about that?

Not a thing. The comment wasn't directed at you, but rather to the individuals that keep trying to explain why Terrence Ross and a 2nd rounder is all Ibaka is worth.

Terrence ross is a good player, he's the raptors best shooter over the past 5 years despite lowry havin the best statistical 3pt season and plays defence creates his own shot and is much improved and on a good contract. He also happens to hold the all time career high in points scored during a game at 51 tied with vince carter.

the problem with ross is consistency but when you play under a soft coach like casey how can you be held accountable? I can see ross starting and giving orlando at least 14 ppg in less than 30 min with consistent defence and shooting. he'd thrive under vogel. I would rather give up a first rounder + prospect than give up terrence ross.

[jjohns828]

Damn youre sensitive. my mistake for offerring some crap offer when lucas nougeria is valued in toronto and cojo is no crap player either. Who are these 8 teams expressing interest? You named toronto and boston but how about the other 6? Just because hennigan gave up dipo, lotto pick to get ibaka, doesnt mean ibaka is worth such value.

Even if your right about Nougeria and Joseph I don't see where they have much if any value to the Magic. Unless Biyombo and/or Vucevic get moved Nougeria wouldn't have any place on this team. Then when you consider Payton and Augustin being under contract next year, the number of top PG prospects in the draft and the high probability that they'll be the best player at our likely draft position I'd consider taking Joseph and his salary as somewhat negative despite what merits he might have as a player in his own right.

[red96]

Right. But the price is really the only thing that's relevant for us. The Magic can simply let his contract expire and either attempt to re-sign him or let him walk and spend that money elsewhere.

The trade deadline is still almost two weeks out and no fewer than eight teams have already been linked with Ibaka. Fans of other teams keep coming in and expressing interest in him. Fans of Boston and Toronto, on the other hand, keep trying to explain the economics of the situation and rationalize why Orlando should accept some crap offer from them because... while they are interested, they aren't really really interested. Fine. Go back to your board and forget about acquiring Ibaka.

I agree with most of your post. For one, I don't think that my favorite team will acquire Ibaka and I didn't say the Magic should take a crap offer. All I said was that if the Magic don't like the offers Ibaka get's, they could just wait to see what the off-season has in store. What's out of line about that?

Not a thing. The comment wasn't directed at you, but rather to the individuals that keep trying to explain why Terrence Ross and a 2nd rounder is all Ibaka is worth.

I wouldn't be surprised if something close to that was used as a starting point, but the Magic are holding off until the deadline to get the best deal they can, whatever that will be. But I can't see Ibaka going for that cheap. If so, I could image my favorite team landing him quite easily(for a much better package).

[djhunkyherbs]

Damn youre sensitive. my mistake for offerring some crap offer when lucas nougeria is valued in toronto and cojo is no crap player either. Who are these 8 teams expressing interest? You named toronto and boston but how about the other 6? Just because hennigan gave up dipo, lotto pick to get ibaka, doesnt mean ibaka is worth such value.

We just signed Biyombo. Why would we want Nogueira? Cory Joseph isn't worth his contract. That makes him a net negative. I'd want one of your late first rounders just to take his contract off of you.

The Pelicans, Bulls, Blazers, Lakers, Rockets, and Heat have all been linked to Ibaka recently.

Cojo + our first rounder is a fair trade. I included nougeria instead of a first rounder as some ppl commented that the first rounder is too late. Also, maybe you only watched cojo during the times that hes faced orlando where the raptors had wet the bed twice against orlando, but hea definitely playing at his contract value. In fact, hes underpaid by nba contracts being handed out. Frank vogel would do that trade if he had to give his 2cents, cojo was tearing it up in the first round of the pacers vs raptors.

Also, about biyombo, raptor would take him back, we'd give yall demarre carroll who has 2 more years left on his contract after this season (28mil).

The Magic already have three point guards, I highly doubt that they're interested in another. And I also doubt that they're interested in Carroll, as your sig even acknowledges that he's trash.

If the Raptors are unwilling to part with any real assets, then the Magic should look elsewhere. You're right that the Magic might not get a ton back for Ibaka, but I'd have to believe there are better offers on the table than a backup point guard and a late first-round pick.

[Skin]

It's a risk-reward situation. It's just not worth it; Celts have max capspace this summer, they can go out and try to sign Ibaka/Milsap other big name while retaining Brown or they can put together an incredible package for any disgruntled superstar that comes on the market in the next 2 years. What they dont need to do and shouldnt even consider is overpaying for an expiring Ibaka. And Bird rights shouldnt mean much in this situation as Boston doesnt want to give Ibaka a max contract

I said this before, but I imagine the Magic will end up keeping him. The truth is, no team will pony up much for a guy who can potentially walk at the end of the season, and the few teams who would/should be taking that risk (actual contenders) don't have the assets. Hennigan would look pretty bad for selling a guy for less than he paid for him 6 months ago

If you don't get an acceptable offer for Ibaka then just keep him and see what happens in the offseason. See what the market is and maybe he'll want to stay if a good player is drafted and an impact is made in free agency and if not then explore sign and trade deals.

S&T's no longer transfer bird rights, so there is no benefit for a player to agree to one. S&T's are pretty much dead.

Yeah S&Ts are dead. I think for the Magic it boils down to keeping unless they get a pick in the late teens/early twenties and some bench help (preferably young). That's a lower return value than what they gave up to get Ibaka, but it's also fair because the Magic feel like Ibaka's Bird Rights has real value. Any team trading for him will find value in it, so why should the Magic not look for fair compensation for it? The ability to go over the cap to sign a player AND give him that extra 5th year is a BIG deal.

If the Magic don't get what they feel is fair then I have no problems keeping him and giving him whatever the market dictates. Seriously, what other big named FA or rookie extension are we needing to save the money for???

[tiderulz]

Damn youre sensitive. my mistake for offerring some crap offer when lucas nougeria is valued in toronto and cojo is no crap player either. Who are these 8 teams expressing interest? You named toronto and boston but how about the other 6? Just because hennigan gave up dipo, lotto pick to get ibaka, doesnt mean ibaka is worth such value.

We just signed Biyombo. Why would we want Nogueira? Cory Joseph isn't worth his contract. That makes him a net negative. I'd want one of your late first rounders just to take his contract off of you.

The Pelicans, Bulls, Blazers, Lakers, Rockets, and Heat have all been linked to Ibaka recently.

Cojo + our first rounder is a fair trade. I included nougeria instead of a first rounder as some ppl commented that the first rounder is too late. Also, maybe you only watched cojo during the times that hes faced orlando where the raptors had wet the bed twice against orlando, but hea definitely playing at his contract value. In fact, hes underpaid by nba contracts being handed out. Frank vogel would do that trade if he had to give his 2cents, cojo was tearing it up in the first round of the pacers vs raptors.

Also, about biyombo, raptor would take him back, we'd give yall demarre carroll who has 2 more years left on his contract after this season (28mil).

sorry man, Cojo + a late 1st isnt a good offer. Cojo does nothing for us. Nogs is just another backup big man, nothing really special.

[Def Swami]

Portland got away with murder. Finally got a big they wanted next to CJ and Dame and a 1st. Portland may not be an Ibaka destination anymore.

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Portland sends Mason Plumlee a 2018 second round pick for Nurkic and a 2017 first-rounder (via Memphis), league sources tell @TheVertical

If Portland can get a young prospect and 1st rounder for Plumlee, the Magic have to be able to find themselves a sucker as well.

[Def Swami]

The more I think of it, the more I cackle at how crazy it is that Portland used Plumlee to get Nurkic and a 1st rounder. I would have settled for just a 1st rounder last trade deadline when we traded Tobias Harris. These guys managed to turn a Plumlee into a package I'd beg for Ibaka.

[Mrrags009]

What if magic trade ibaka then resign him in offseaspn to decent contract is it worth it then

Sent from my XT1650 using RealGM mobile app

[Rockzin4]

Portland got away with murder. Finally got a big they wanted next to CJ and Dame and a 1st. Portland may not be an Ibaka destination anymore.

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Portland sends Mason Plumlee a 2018 second round pick for Nurkic and a 2017 first-rounder (via Memphis), league sources tell @TheVertical

If Portland can get a young prospect and 1st rounder for Plumlee, the Magic have to be able to find themselves a sucker as well.

My thoughts exactly.

[Def Swami]

Zach Lowe ‏@ZachLowe_NBA
Highly doubt POR is done dealing. Not sure how Plumlee fits in DEN long-term if he gets even borderline starting C money.

Or maybe Portland uses the pick and Crabbe to take Ibaka?