2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion

[bondom34]

You guys bringing up Russ' age relative to other players are missing the point. We're stuck in a sort of dead end cycle here, too good to improve through the draft, unable to attract free agents, unlikely to swing game changing trades. His age is immaterial to this assessment. The only things his age is relevant to is how many years of futility you are willing to endure before pulling the plug and how much you are going to get for him in return when you finally do.

You're assuming futility when tanking is more futile.

[thedoppelganger]

You guys bringing up Russ' age relative to other players are missing the point. We're stuck in a sort of dead end cycle here, too good to improve through the draft, unable to attract free agents, unlikely to swing game changing trades. His age is immaterial to this assessment. The only things his age is relevant to is how many years of futility you are willing to endure before pulling the plug and how much you are going to get for him in return when you finally do.

You're assuming futility when tanking is more futile.

If we traded him next summer and got back something like Brooklyn picks/Brown or Philly/Laker/Kings picks, would we even have to tank really? That's a lot of bites at the apple over the next 2 drafts combined with our own picks.

Or Presti might not even want to trade for draft picks - remember some of the teams in July we were rumored to have contacted about Russ trades? Spurs and Bucks were a couple of them and I imagine Presti was calling only about Kawhi and Giannis (maybe Jabari), nothing else on those teams would be worth calling about.

[Old Man Game]

You guys bringing up Russ' age relative to other players are missing the point. We're stuck in a sort of dead end cycle here, too good to improve through the draft, unable to attract free agents, unlikely to swing game changing trades. His age is immaterial to this assessment. The only things his age is relevant to is how many years of futility you are willing to endure before pulling the plug and how much you are going to get for him in return when you finally do.

You're assuming futility when tanking is more futile.

Tanking isn't futile. Tanking is starting over. Starting over in many avenues is the exact opposite of futility. Say you're stuck in a dead end job you hate. You quit, go back to College, get a degree in another field doing something you enjoy. What'd you do? You started over and you bettered yourself and your position in life for it. That's what we're trying to argue here. Don't keep punching the time clock every day just waiting for the big promotion you know will never come until you want to end it all. Drop it. Start over. Life's too short.

[spearsy23]

You guys bringing up Russ' age relative to other players are missing the point. We're stuck in a sort of dead end cycle here, too good to improve through the draft, unable to attract free agents, unlikely to swing game changing trades. His age is immaterial to this assessment. The only things his age is relevant to is how many years of futility you are willing to endure before pulling the plug and how much you are going to get for him in return when you finally do.

Why are we too good to improve through the draft? We have a few movable assets and a pick that could combine to get us into the range where kawhi, giannis, George, hayward, Thompson, Adams, mccollum were picked. We have a pick that will be in the range or earlier than where Butler, Draymond, Gobert, Middleton, Jokic, Gasol, Teague, George Hill, Serge, Reggie, vucevic, ginobili, Parker were all picked. The notion that you can't get help unless you're picking in the top 5 is ridiculous. We're not getting cupcake/AD/LeBron but realistically only one team gets those guys and at best you're still at like a 25% shot of getting them.

Can we define futility? Because I wouldn't consider 7 games above .500 futility. We're on pace for 46 wins and the schedule actually eases up a bit. Futility would be what teams like minny, sac, Philly, and Orlando have been for the last 5 years. 3 of those teams dumped all their good players for youth. Philly did it unabashedly and they are still terrible and if Embiid continues down this road may not be better for another 3 years.

[bondom34]

You guys bringing up Russ' age relative to other players are missing the point. We're stuck in a sort of dead end cycle here, too good to improve through the draft, unable to attract free agents, unlikely to swing game changing trades. His age is immaterial to this assessment. The only things his age is relevant to is how many years of futility you are willing to endure before pulling the plug and how much you are going to get for him in return when you finally do.

You're assuming futility when tanking is more futile.

Tanking isn't futile. Tanking is starting over. Starting over in many avenues is the exact opposite of futility. Say you're stuck in a dead end job you hate. You quit, go back to College, get a degree in another field doing something you enjoy. What'd you do? You started over and you bettered yourself and your position in life for it. That's what we're trying to argue here. Don't keep punching the time clock every day just waiting for the big promotion you know will never come until you want to end it all. Drop it. Start over. Life's too short.

Why start over when you're already part way there? And tanking hasn't succeeded essentially ever. The last team to sell a star in his prime and win it all for it was......nobody

Futiility is a lack of ways to improve, not what this team has.

[bondom34]

You guys bringing up Russ' age relative to other players are missing the point. We're stuck in a sort of dead end cycle here, too good to improve through the draft, unable to attract free agents, unlikely to swing game changing trades. His age is immaterial to this assessment. The only things his age is relevant to is how many years of futility you are willing to endure before pulling the plug and how much you are going to get for him in return when you finally do.

You're assuming futility when tanking is more futile.

If we traded him next summer and got back something like Brooklyn picks/Brown or Philly/Laker/Kings picks, would we even have to tank really? That's a lot of bites at the apple over the next 2 drafts combined with our own picks.

Or Presti might not even want to trade for draft picks - remember some of the teams in July we were rumored to have contacted about Russ trades? Spurs and Bucks were a couple of them and I imagine Presti was calling only about Kawhi and Giannis (maybe Jabari), nothing else on those teams would be worth calling about.

I mean, you're tanking then because you're just bad. And there's zero guarantee any of those picks are close to Russ. Look last year when the BKN pick was 3. Jaylen Brown, so you can have a couple Jaylen Brown's for Russ? Nah, I'll ride it out and let Presti work around Russ instead.

[Old Man Game]

You're assuming futility when tanking is more futile.

Tanking isn't futile. Tanking is starting over. Starting over in many avenues is the exact opposite of futility. Say you're stuck in a dead end job you hate. You quit, go back to College, get a degree in another field doing something you enjoy. What'd you do? You started over and you bettered yourself and your position in life for it. That's what we're trying to argue here. Don't keep punching the time clock every day just waiting for the big promotion you know will never come until you want to end it all. Drop it. Start over. Life's too short.

Why start over when you're already part way there? And tanking hasn't succeeded essentially ever. The last team to sell a star in his prime and win it all for it was......nobody

Futiility is a lack of ways to improve, not what this team has.

We're part way to our destination without a map or a navigation device by which we can find the right turn to get there. Hope we pick the right one. Else we're going to wander in the wilderness for a while until we die of exposure.

[bondom34]

Tanking isn't futile. Tanking is starting over. Starting over in many avenues is the exact opposite of futility. Say you're stuck in a dead end job you hate. You quit, go back to College, get a degree in another field doing something you enjoy. What'd you do? You started over and you bettered yourself and your position in life for it. That's what we're trying to argue here. Don't keep punching the time clock every day just waiting for the big promotion you know will never come until you want to end it all. Drop it. Start over. Life's too short.

Why start over when you're already part way there? And tanking hasn't succeeded essentially ever. The last team to sell a star in his prime and win it all for it was......nobody

Futiility is a lack of ways to improve, not what this team has.

We're part way to our destination without a map or a navigation device by which we can find the right turn to get there. Hope we pick the right one. Else we're going to wander in the wilderness for a while until we die of exposure.

And if you're tanking you're just doing the same. The only difference is you suck, so the plan isn't needed. It's throwing away the map and going home for a while instead of camping.

Right now you need to take a bit to build around Russ. Like more than half a season.

[Old Man Game]

Why start over when you're already part way there? And tanking hasn't succeeded essentially ever. The last team to sell a star in his prime and win it all for it was......nobody

Futiility is a lack of ways to improve, not what this team has.

We're part way to our destination without a map or a navigation device by which we can find the right turn to get there. Hope we pick the right one. Else we're going to wander in the wilderness for a while until we die of exposure.

And if you're tanking you're just doing the same. The only difference is you suck, so the plan isn't needed. It's throwing away the map and going home for a while instead of camping.

Right now you need to take a bit to build around Russ. Like more than half a season.

No, you turn around, go back where you came from, start on a new journey in a different vehicle.

[bondom34]

We're part way to our destination without a map or a navigation device by which we can find the right turn to get there. Hope we pick the right one. Else we're going to wander in the wilderness for a while until we die of exposure.

And if you're tanking you're just doing the same. The only difference is you suck, so the plan isn't needed. It's throwing away the map and going home for a while instead of camping.

Right now you need to take a bit to build around Russ. Like more than half a season.

No, you turn around, go back where you came from, start on a new journey in a different vehicle.

Except you don't have the vehicle, or destination, or plan on how to get there. You just know you're back to starting over.

Go to the GT and ask the Wiz fans if OKC should tank. Or if they should.

[Old Man Game]

You guys bringing up Russ' age relative to other players are missing the point. We're stuck in a sort of dead end cycle here, too good to improve through the draft, unable to attract free agents, unlikely to swing game changing trades. His age is immaterial to this assessment. The only things his age is relevant to is how many years of futility you are willing to endure before pulling the plug and how much you are going to get for him in return when you finally do.

Why are we too good to improve through the draft? We have a few movable assets and a pick that could combine to get us into the range where kawhi, giannis, George, hayward, Thompson, Adams, mccollum were picked. We have a pick that will be in the range or earlier than where Butler, Draymond, Gobert, Middleton, Jokic, Gasol, Teague, George Hill, Serge, Reggie, vucevic, ginobili, Parker were all picked. The notion that you can't get help unless you're picking in the top 5 is ridiculous. We're not getting cupcake/AD/LeBron but realistically only one team gets those guys and at best you're still at like a 25% shot of getting them.

Can we define futility? Because I wouldn't consider 7 games above .500 futility. We're on pace for 46 wins and the schedule actually eases up a bit. Futility would be what teams like minny, sac, Philly, and Orlando have been for the last 5 years. 3 of those teams dumped all their good players for youth. Philly did it unabashedly and they are still terrible and if Embiid continues down this road may not be better for another 3 years.

Of course you can get star level players outside the top 10 picks. But the odds of doing so are low. As far as defining futility, see my post from earlier today. I'd say categories 2 and 3 are futility. Just making the 5-8 seed every year doesn't do much for me personally.

[Kizz Fastfists]

That's what I'm referring to. Financially it's in his best interest to sign the extension this summer. That's why Presti trades him if he doesn't sign it.

That is no in Russ' best interests at all. That would set his pay rate at 30% of the cap. If he waits a year he sets it at 35% of the cap. If Russ signs the extension this off-season he makes the same $28.5M next year he is slated to make, but only $30.5M in 2018-2019 instead of the $33.5M he would make otherwise. Every year after he would also be making less than if he waited to resign. If Presti is going to trade him if he doesn't extend this off-season then he's going to trade him.

[bondom34]

Alright I'll drop the debate there. But as a serious point, ask the other team fans their thoughts, I'd be interested.

[spearsy23]

You guys bringing up Russ' age relative to other players are missing the point. We're stuck in a sort of dead end cycle here, too good to improve through the draft, unable to attract free agents, unlikely to swing game changing trades. His age is immaterial to this assessment. The only things his age is relevant to is how many years of futility you are willing to endure before pulling the plug and how much you are going to get for him in return when you finally do.

You're assuming futility when tanking is more futile.

Tanking isn't futile. Tanking is starting over. Starting over in many avenues is the exact opposite of futility. Say you're stuck in a dead end job you hate. You quit, go back to College, get a degree in another field doing something you enjoy. What'd you do? You started over and you bettered yourself and your position in life for it. That's what we're trying to argue here. Don't keep punching the time clock every day just waiting for the big promotion you know will never come until you want to end it all. Drop it. Start over. Life's too short.

Except you aren't going back to college, you're quitting your job to accept an internship in the same company.

[Pillendreher]

That's what I'm referring to. Financially it's in his best interest to sign the extension this summer. That's why Presti trades him if he doesn't sign it.

That is no in Russ' best interests at all. That would set his pay rate at 30% of the cap. If he waits a year he sets it at 35% of the cap. If Russ signs the extension this off-season he makes the same $28.5M next year he is slated to make, but only $30.5M in 2018-2019 instead of the $33.5M he would make otherwise. Every year after he would also be making less than if he waited to resign. If Presti is going to trade him if he doesn't extend this off-season then he's going to trade him.

Wasn't the point of that designated player thingy to allow players to sign contracts which are reserved for 10 year vets earlier? I mean it has been established that this mechanism should help teams at holding on to their guys because they can offer them like 70 or 80 million more than any other team.

[spearsy23]

That's what I'm referring to. Financially it's in his best interest to sign the extension this summer. That's why Presti trades him if he doesn't sign it.

That is no in Russ' best interests at all. That would set his pay rate at 30% of the cap. If he waits a year he sets it at 35% of the cap. If Russ signs the extension this off-season he makes the same $28.5M next year he is slated to make, but only $30.5M in 2018-2019 instead of the $33.5M he would make otherwise. Every year after he would also be making less than if he waited to resign. If Presti is going to trade him if he doesn't extend this off-season then he's going to trade him.

Wasn't the point of that designated player thingy to allow players to sign contracts which are reserved for 10 year vets earlier? I mean it has been established that this mechanism should help teams at holding on to their guys because they can offer them like 70 or 80 million more than any other team.

Yes, kizz is wrong on this. That's exactly what the designated player exception is for and why the league specifically grandfathered Russ and harden in. But TDG is wrong too from what I understand, there's no benefits for Russ in signing the extension this off-season (well besides the guaranteed money in event of an injury). Since he has an opt out after next year he'll be eligible for the 35% max when he hits the open market anyway. Essentially, we got screwed by the cba AGAIN. If we hadn't signed him to an extension then he would've been a free agent this off-season and we could've offered him 5% more than anyone else next year, instead he hits FA after next year and everyone can offer him 35%. Our only advantage now is that 5th year.

Edit: Your sig does provide leverage though. Russ said himself that there's no need to wait, so if he doesn't sign this off-season then you at least know he's not dead-set on staying. Really the only benefit of grandfathering him in is giving presti the chance to offer Russ the contract early so that sam knows if he should consider a trade.

[bondom34]

Just realized it, and boring, and doesn't improve them this year, but to gain an asset I'd take Ezeli's contract from Portland for a first. He fits in Ersan's TPE.

[Andre Roberstan]

Just realized it, and boring, and doesn't improve them this year, but to gain an asset I'd take Ezeli's contract from Portland for a first. He fits in Ersan's TPE.

I can't see them having much incentive to do that. He's either NG or an option next year, I forget which.

[bondom34]

Just realized it, and boring, and doesn't improve them this year, but to gain an asset I'd take Ezeli's contract from Portland for a first. He fits in Ersan's TPE.

I can't see them having much incentive to do that. He's either NG or an option next year, I forget which.

Owed I think $1mil. Not sure either, and doubt it after I thought more (no coffee yet) but if they'd do it it would be nice.

I'm kinda hoping Lou Will's price drops to a few 2nds.

[Osirus89]

On ESPN just now, Royce Young was asked about the Thunder being active at the trade deadline. He said he expects the Thunder to be active (no surprise there). However, when he was asked about who the untouchable players on the roster are, he mentioned Steven, Russ, and Nick. Only those 3. Interesting to see what might be available if those 3 are the only ones off the table.