Game 56: Orlando Magic (20-35) @ Dallas Mavericks (21-32) - 9 PM ET

[Last Guardian]

The board got what it wanted and this is the outcome. Mario played 35 minutes, got to shoot the ball, and we got annihilated. Y'all said that's what you wanted so why are you mad at Vogel? We don't have a good team. You guys still think Serge is a good player and Mario's a future all-star and that's why you blame Vogel. He's not the problem. The problem is you have a warped sense of reality when it comes to the talent on this roster.

There was a thread where most of you honestly thought we would win 40 games. That's when I knew you guys had no clue how poorly constructed our roster is and how much we took a step back when we traded for a jump shooting PF that can't bang with real big men. You have to take the Magic fan shades off and be able to see things for what they are. If you want Mario playing 35 minutes and being more of a focal point, we're going to take some severe ass whoopings. That's just the way it is, and if we're tanking that's fine. Just don't complain after the losses.

Ok, I agree in general. But we are taking severe ass whooping when Mario doesn't play a second. This is hardly his fault.

[Blue_and_Whte]

The board got what it wanted and this is the outcome. Mario played 35 minutes, got to shoot the ball, and we got annihilated. Y'all said that's what you wanted so why are you mad at Vogel? We don't have a good team. You guys still think Serge is a good player and Mario's a future all-star and that's why you blame Vogel. He's not the problem. The problem is you have a warped sense of reality when it comes to the talent on this roster.

There was a thread where most of you honestly thought we would win 40 games. That's when I knew you guys had no clue how poorly constructed our roster is and how much we took a step back when we traded for a jump shooting PF that can't bang with real big men. You have to take the Magic fan shades off and be able to see things for what they are. If you want Mario playing 35 minutes and being more of a focal point, we're going to take some severe ass whoopings. That's just the way it is, and if we're tanking that's fine. Just don't complain after the losses.

Ok, I agree in general. But we are taking severe ass whooping when Mario doesn't play a second. This is hardly his fault.

Not his fault of course but Jay Dash isn't wrong. Mario isn't a guys that's going to turn us around. Something has happened in the locker room, and these guys aren't playing together now. I'm happy when we lose and I don't give a damn if its an ass whoppin or not. There are absolutely no moral victories

[JAY DASH]

The board got what it wanted and this is the outcome. Mario played 35 minutes, got to shoot the ball, and we got annihilated. Y'all said that's what you wanted so why are you mad at Vogel? We don't have a good team. You guys still think Serge is a good player and Mario's a future all-star and that's why you blame Vogel. He's not the problem. The problem is you have a warped sense of reality when it comes to the talent on this roster.

There was a thread where most of you honestly thought we would win 40 games. That's when I knew you guys had no clue how poorly constructed our roster is and how much we took a step back when we traded for a jump shooting PF that can't bang with real big men. You have to take the Magic fan shades off and be able to see things for what they are. If you want Mario playing 35 minutes and being more of a focal point, we're going to take some severe ass whoopings. That's just the way it is, and if we're tanking that's fine. Just don't complain after the losses.

You act like Hezonja took 30+ shots in his 35 mins

He's not capable of getting 30 quality shots off in an NBA game. I've explained that. This isn't NBA 2K. You have to be able to create enough space to put up 30 good shots. He can't do that against any defense that's focused on shutting him down. Maybe one day he'll be able to do that....just not yet.

[Furinkazan]

The board got what it wanted and this is the outcome. Mario played 35 minutes, got to shoot the ball, and we got annihilated. Y'all said that's what you wanted so why are you mad at Vogel? We don't have a good team. You guys still think Serge is a good player and Mario's a future all-star and that's why you blame Vogel. He's not the problem. The problem is you have a warped sense of reality when it comes to the talent on this roster.

There was a thread where most of you honestly thought we would win 40 games. That's when I knew you guys had no clue how poorly constructed our roster is and how much we took a step back when we traded for a jump shooting PF that can't bang with real big men. You have to take the Magic fan shades off and be able to see things for what they are. If you want Mario playing 35 minutes and being more of a focal point, we're going to take some severe ass whoopings. That's just the way it is, and if we're tanking that's fine. Just don't complain after the losses.

You act like Hezonja took 30+ shots in his 35 mins

He's not capable of getting 30 quality shots off in an NBA game. I've explained that. This isn't NBA 2K. You have to be able to create enough space to put up 30 good shots. He can't do that against any defense that's focused on shutting him down. Maybe one day he'll be able to do that....just not yet.

Its not what Im talking about.
You make it look like we lost because Mario did play 35 minutes.Its not the f case here.

[JAY DASH]

The board got what it wanted and this is the outcome. Mario played 35 minutes, got to shoot the ball, and we got annihilated. Y'all said that's what you wanted so why are you mad at Vogel? We don't have a good team. You guys still think Serge is a good player and Mario's a future all-star and that's why you blame Vogel. He's not the problem. The problem is you have a warped sense of reality when it comes to the talent on this roster.

There was a thread where most of you honestly thought we would win 40 games. That's when I knew you guys had no clue how poorly constructed our roster is and how much we took a step back when we traded for a jump shooting PF that can't bang with real big men. You have to take the Magic fan shades off and be able to see things for what they are. If you want Mario playing 35 minutes and being more of a focal point, we're going to take some severe ass whoopings. That's just the way it is, and if we're tanking that's fine. Just don't complain after the losses.

Its not about the losing it is that we have a team currently not caring about the season and has totally tuned out the coach. We got killed by 30 not because of Mario but because the majority of the players were blatantly playing half assed. No one is trying to play defense... every offensive possession looks like a pick up game. its not about winning 40 games , but the fact that we have a team of guys not even trying this early in the season is a bad bad look and their is more going on behind the scense then we know.

We have SOFT players. That's not new news. This roster doesn't have any tough guys. No fire. No energy guys. The only player that even remotely fits that description is Biz and he just got paid so he might not have that same fire...especially on a losing team in an arena that's closer to a Library than anything else. Look at other teams and see the difference in the type of guys they have. Not even referring to talent, just talking about grit. I thought Elf was one of those guys and in a different environment maybe he will be, but as it stands our whole team is soft.

Vogel thrived with gritty guys like Granger, Lance, David West, etc. Even made Roy Hibbert seem like an actual basketball talent. How can I blame him for losing with a bunch of finesse guys? Serge is soft. Vooch is soft. Evan is soft. Hell AG's soft. We don't have any Draymond's. No Boogie's. Nobody with any type of a mean streak so when the going gets tough they lay down. This isn't rocket science. I'm not even upset at the way the season is going because I could see it before the year even started. It's just not a good roster. A lot of players that would be really decent in different environments, but there's no alpha dog here. Period.

[JAY DASH]

You act like Hezonja took 30+ shots in his 35 mins

He's not capable of getting 30 quality shots off in an NBA game. I've explained that. This isn't NBA 2K. You have to be able to create enough space to put up 30 good shots. He can't do that against any defense that's focused on shutting him down. Maybe one day he'll be able to do that....just not yet.

Its not what Im talking about.
You make it look like we lost because Mario did play 35 minutes.Its not the f case here.

If he's playing 35 minutes that means we don't have anyone better to play those minutes. Which means against a team that's trying to win...yes we're probably going to get our ass whooped. Playing D-League level talent for 35 minutes generally will equal out to bad losses.

[JAY DASH]

You can't blame Vogel for this mess. This team quit on Skiles at the same time, quit on JV at the same time. It's at this point in the season they realize they don't have the talent and cash in their chips. I don't think it can be stressed enough how devoid of talent Hennigan's teams have been throughout this rebuild.

But there is something else -- Payton and Vucevic simply do not bring it every night, and they are supposed to be key players. Two straight coaches -- Skiles and Vogel -- have said publicly that Elf doesn't play hard every night. All players have a low energy game every once in a while. But these guys have them often, and that's a huge problem. Vogel has benched Elf twice. Whether he is right or wrong for doing that is certainly debatable, but what is not debatable is he sees something in Payton's effort that he doesn't like. It might even be something that is not as obvious to us, but Skiles made several thinly veiled comments about Elf too. And your PG should be a Type A leader, Alpha Male if possible. Elf is a quiet kid. As for Vuc, he flat-out takes games off.

Oladipo played hard. He's gone. Tobias didn't play as consistently hard as Dipo but you could tell he hated losing. There is no one left with heart.

This is all I'm saying as well. And it's really disappointing in Elf's case because we've literally seen him play with a chip on his shoulder and he's a completely different player. I almost think Vogel benched him to try to piss him off, just to see if he would get back to being that aggressive guy we've seen before, but I don't know. Hard to figure out why Elf doesn't play with that same fire most of the time. Can't blame it on minutes because there's career backups that come in the game and play with energy. At some point you have to be accountable for your own effort level. We can fire every coach after 2 years and it won't change anything until the players hold themselves accountable for their own production when they're on the court.

[woosah]

Whether of not the pg should be an alpha male and all of that, idk. That's a whole other discussion probably for a different thread. So Jameer was an alpha male? Is that why we brought in Brandon friggin Jennings, because he is alpha? I just think that is an overstated thing that is said about Elfrid because the person who really has the resume on this team to be declared the leader isn't doing it and is due a contract. Serge has been on successful teams and to the finals. Why isn't he the leader? Elfrid can't lead anyone anywhere he hasn't been. Yall want a confrontational guy and that isn't him. We knew that when we got him though, and it's not his job to motivate and get guys to do what they are supposed to. Coach has said he is in the gym after disappointing games shooting and trying to get better and that he cares, but he can't make others do that. Coach bipolar ass also said CJ was the best pg on the team right now, yet the other night at the end of the game who did he have in on the last play for a stop...ELFRID. But i guess it was EP fault Evan can't turned the ball over too. rambling again but ugh.