Luka Doncic

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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#21 » by jrob23 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:14 pm

reanimator wrote:I hope to see Doncic flashing a pull up, a lil more creativity as a ball handler and some explosion around the rim so I can move him up my board. Think his spatial awareness is Lonzo Ball/Dangelo Russell/Ben Simmons like and flashes of a post game are very encouraging.


he has next level BBIQ. Elite. Right up there with the best I've ever seen. It's really one of the only things that keep him as being a great prospect for me because nothing else flashes right now. But BBIQ is HUGE!! Physically he's in no man's land to me. Because he's so young and we can't be sure he's going to be a 2, 3 or 4 it's hard to evaluate his upside there. If next year he still hasn't grown, I can totally see him rocking out in the gym and getting in Hayward type shape. If he does that...since he has similar skill and a better BBIQ than Hayward than Hayward is around his upside. But it'll take a few years imo. If he shoots up another couple of inches, retains that skill and puts on muscle? Well, then we are talking possibly a better Toni Kukoc and that...a true dominant stretch 4..is highly coveted by NBA teams right now so he'd be a top choice even among the big men of next year's draft class. Think a more athletic Dirk perhaps. But when I look at him presently it takes a giant leap to see that in my mind's eye because he's a tweener who doesn't appear to have an NBA body and atheticism for a SF. It's best to just be patient and let him grow really, before putting all this pressure on the kid to be the European Michael Jordan.

Does anyone know if he's even going to enter the draft next year?
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#22 » by Apollo64 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:50 pm

Probably not the best place to post this, but smh at the decision to lock the previous thread, as i thought that there weren't any lines crossed. Heated discussions and arguments/counter-arguments, as long as they stay civil, are part of what makes sports forums exciting, you know.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#23 » by Marcus » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:52 pm

Apollo64 wrote:Probably not the best place to post this, but smh at the decision to lock the previous thread, as i thought that there weren't any lines crossed. Heated discussions and arguments/counter-arguments, as long as they stay civil, are part of what makes sports forums exciting, you know.


not your call to make.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#24 » by Apollo64 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:57 pm

Marcus wrote:
Apollo64 wrote:Probably not the best place to post this, but smh at the decision to lock the previous thread, as i thought that there weren't any lines crossed. Heated discussions and arguments/counter-arguments, as long as they stay civil, are part of what makes sports forums exciting, you know.


not your call to make.


I hope i can still voice my opinion on this.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#25 » by Marcus » Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:02 pm

Apollo64 wrote:
Marcus wrote:
Apollo64 wrote:Probably not the best place to post this, but smh at the decision to lock the previous thread, as i thought that there weren't any lines crossed. Heated discussions and arguments/counter-arguments, as long as they stay civil, are part of what makes sports forums exciting, you know.


not your call to make.


I hope i can still voice my opinion on this.


In the Doncic thread in general? feel free. just adhere to the guidelines. anything outside of that send me a PM.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#26 » by reanimator » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:11 am

How do people feel about the Nic Batum comp?

For the Euros, what flaws if any do you see in his game?
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#27 » by kayath » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:58 am

Yes Doncic has similar height then Batum but that is pretty much it. Doncic is closer to the pg postion then sg.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#28 » by reanimator » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:21 am

What abilities/tools does Doncic possess that Batum doesn't that makes him a PG?
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#29 » by kayath » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:02 am

High bbiq
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#30 » by CalL » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:35 am

BillyKingGM wrote:Okay let's kick this off, I've been really thinking about this lately...

Where would you take Luke Doncic if he were to somehow declare for the 2017 NBA Draft?

I'm really struggling where I would rank him relative to DSJ, my order right now would be:

Fultz
JJ
DSJ/Doncic
Isaac
Ball
Tatum

Where would you guys rank Doncic? I think Doncic's floor is a lot higher than DSJ, but do you draft for floor in the top 3?


"Interesting" question ...
If Doncic would be draft-eligible this year, that would mean that he would have been born in 1998, so we would have to judge him differently and would have to assume that he has less potential than he actually has ... (being at the same level, but one year older)
Like i said earlier: The current version of Doncic in my opinion is the average case for Ntilikina, where Ntilikina might be quality-wise in 2 or 3 years. Doncic in my opinion has at least the same potential as Ntilikina at everything excluding defense, where Ntilikina has clearly more upside. I would definitely draft Doncic ahead of Markkanen, so for me he would probably be top 6. Currently my top 6 are Fultz, Jackson, Smith, Ball, Tatum, Isaac. I wouldnt pick him top 2 (ahead of Fultz/Jackson) or 6th (behind Isaac), so he would be between 3rd and 5th in my opinion. If you would point a gun at my head and ask me to make a decision, then i would probably pick him behind Smith but ahead of Ball and Tatum in 4th.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#31 » by CalL » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:57 am

Bob8 wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:He had a pretty bad game in the ACB few days ago, but its nice to see him getting some shots off.

I think some people here who are not high on him would have a slightly better opinion of him, if Doncic was actually playing in these U18 games, and there was footage of him flat out dominating and putting big scoring numbers. But all we have is Real Madrid footage, where he gets like 4 shot attempts, so of course he doesn't look as impressive, especially for people who don't really follow euro ball.


He played this U18 games, won the tournament and was named MVP of the tournament, but this was 2 years ago, when he was only 15-16 years old. ;)

http://www.euroleaguebasketball.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=005929&seasoncode=JT14#!JT14_QRC

The mistake some people are making looking at him is, they're seeing him only as prospect, but he is beyond this already. He's Euroleague star at this moment. Many prospects we are looking at this moment will never play at his level. Saying that, we can't expect he will have great game every week, he's playing for Real Madrid and there are 15 good players who want their shots and playing time. It's natural his playing time and number of shots are lower than will be in any other smaller team. Don't forget he is only that young player who gets some playing time in Euroleague. Only other with good playing time is Zizic and he's 2 years older. And we have to understand he will have around 36 games in Euroleague, around 34 in ACB league + Coppa del Rey, Supercoppa... near 80 games in one season. This looks a bit heavy for 17 years old kid, and coach Laso knows that too. Where is his ceiling? I don't know, but being only 17 means, his body will improve, his skills will improve, he will be more experienced...And don't forget one important thing, the most difficult thing for any sportsman is a step from playing with kids to playing with adults. Many players are great playing U18 competitions and then disappear, not the same ballgame. Luka has already passed this with an A.


1) I think no one here really sees him as a prospect (anymore) ...
Pretty much everyone agrees that he is far more developed than all other european prospects born in 1998 or later. People only disagree wether he will be able to improve much more long term, because he already seems to have the body of a grown-up man.
The fact that he plays tons of minutes for the best non-NBA team should be proof enough that he isnt a normal prospect anymore.
In fact i would say that the problem with people, who dont rate Doncic as highly as you do, is that they dont see him as a prospect anymore, but as a fully developed player with not much more upside.
2) Doncic is a Euroleague star? What exactly do you mean by that?
3) Could you please stop your fanboy behavior, completely flipping out whenever someone doesnt share your opinion on Doncic?
Its perfectly fine to pick Ntilikina ahead of Doncic in an IMAGINARY 2017 draft where they would be both eligible. I think everyone here agrees that Doncic is the better player at the moment, but even you cant deny that Ntilikina has clearly more defensive potential, Doncic will never have the physical tools Ntilikina has, so i am sure that there are other people who would draft Ntilikina ahead of Doncic, if they are looking for a guard with amazing defensive potential, Doncic just cant offer that. I think 9 out of 10 teams (just a guess, maybe its only 8 out of 10, so lets not start a fight over this ... ) would draft Doncic ahead of Ntilikina, because he is a clearly better player at the moment and without a doubt has a higher floor, but i think that there would be at least one team that would draft Ntilikina ahead of him, because he is a better defender (with better physical tools) who might have a higher ceiling.

Just to make it clear: This is not about how i rate those two players (personally i am not even sure wether Ntilikina really has a higher ceiling as an overall player, but he for sure has more defensive potential, while Doncic at the other hand is clearly the better player at the moment), i just wanted to show that its not completely ridiculous to say that you would draft Ntilikina ahead of Doncic in this years draft, because you always have to look at the circumstances of each team and a team that needs a great defensive guard next to a scoring guard (Boston?, Phoenix?), might pick Ntilikina ahead of Doncic, just because he better fits their needs, not because they think that he is a better player overall.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#32 » by Thespianoid » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:07 am

reanimator wrote:What abilities/tools does Doncic possess that Batum doesn't that makes him a PG?


think he could be a PG in the way that LeBron/Harden/Giannis are PG's in that you want them as your primary initiator. He's a capable off-ball player (very good shooter off the catch and off screens) but his main offensive value will come from his elite playmaking ability.

reanimator wrote:How do people feel about the Nic Batum comp?

For the Euros, what flaws if any do you see in his game?


I actually quite like the Batum comp though Doncic is miles more productive and well-rounded at the same age. I believe he will be better, although it is possible his mentality prevents him from taking on elite scorer usage, much like Batum. Tough to discount just how historically good he is at his age vs the best teams in the world outside the NBA.

Luckily he's actually quite a good offensive player or else we could be looking at a possible Rubio situation where a prospect's development stagnated due to historically deficient individual offense despite immense production everywhere else.


Not a Euro but my biggest questions with Doncic are as follows:

1. (easily identifiable) untapped upside.

This one's not really a flaw per se because I don't mean he has limited upside. It's just that he's already so well-rounded and productive that a majority of his development will come from minor improvements in all areas (scoring, shooting, ballhandling, body, decision making, defensive IQ). Sometimes prospects like this will take some hits from scouts/draft evaluators because clear areas of weaknesses for other prospects are perceived to be easier to improve. Suppose it comes down to perceiving production as mutually exclusive from potential.

He's not a poor athlete by any means, actually quite a good leaper (not elite) off one-foot or two, and has a decent first step. Also, as much as people say he's got a fully developed body, it's not like he's already finished an NBA-level training regimen and is devoid of physical upside. He's just naturally a big kid with a strong base. Last summer was his first trip to P3, and I think it's likely he will continue to go, which means he's in the best hands to maximize his physical potential at the NBA level.

2. scoring instincts.

In the half court I haven't seen a consistent ability to score out of the PnR despite there often being a lane for him to go all the way/draw a foul or even pull up. Sometimes looks to generate a pass a bit too early/often rather than continue keeping the defense on its heels. Seems to lack a bit of shake to get the defense leaning and that final step explosion in tight spaces. Doesn't always go up strong seeking contact to finish drives (gets footwork wrong and goes up too early with awkward floaters/runners rather than take an extra step and really explode) which will hurt his finishing in traffic unless he has a lot of space or a full head of steam. A more consistently aggressive mindset (better balance of attack vs run the team) and extended work at P3 (for explosion) can yield improvements, but he might not ever be talented enough a scorer to be a #1 option kind of guy. Lacks that natural ability to conjure buckets although he shows decent craftiness in ISO situations and the ability to create an off-dribble 3.

3. lateral quickness/ability to get through screens.

He competes defensively but he can get beat on-ball or get caught up on screens. Obviously making young player IQ mistakes (allows backdoor cuts, errors during rotation, poor positioning, etc) which I'm confident will go away in time. Probably never an elite impact defender, but again with his likely outlier offensive value he may not need to be.

4. ballhandling.

a pretty minor one in the grand scheme of things, but he could tighten up his handle a bit. Struggles a little against quicker/handsier guards that he's primarily guarded by. Still incredibly productive and not all that TO prone despite this.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

this part will likely bring me a lot of heat, but for fun and to gauge what his statistical impact could look like with a bigger role, I decided to compare Doncic's per40 Euroleague numbers at age 17 and LeBron's NBA rookie year per40 numbers at age 18-19.

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT DECLARING HE WILL BE AS GOOD AS OR BETTER THAN LEBRON. Different roles and competition level, obviously. And I am well aware of the issues with maintaining efficiency when extrapolating lower minute/smaller role production to per36/per40 levels. All of which makes this just an intriguing but altogether meaningless exercise.

Spoiler:
Luka Doncic

17.93 PTS, 8.72 REB, 8.33 AST, 1.67 STL, 0.50 BLK, 3.43 TO

11.56 FGA
47.46%

5.00 2PA
54.9%

6.56 3PA
41.79%

5.04 FTA
84.3%

LeBron James

21.22 PTS, 5.56 REB, 6.00 AST, 1.67 STL, 0.79 BLK, 3.44 TO

19.11 FGA
41.7%

16.33 2PA
43.8%

2.78 3PA
29.0%

5.89 FTA
75.4%
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#33 » by XTraderXL » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:53 am

@thespianoid

Excellent post! I agree with everything you said. I also noticed his ball handling, its a bit loose but its quickly improving. He had much harder time handling the ball at the start of the season and now he looks much more comfortable.

As for the body.... I have been saying that his body is nowhere near a finished product yet. People think just because he has a large frame, that he is done developing . But if you look at his body closely, he still looks like a teenager and not like a grown man. He definitely needs gain more muscle, with that he will become more explosive and faster which will help him on both sides of the court. He started posting up more in recent games but he is taking advantage of his height, not his strength. Many times smaller players are still stronger than him and he cant really do much posting up. This is normal, Doncic is not even 18 yet so he does not posses that strength which comes naturally by age. I think his body will look a lot different once its fully developed at 23-24.

He is a good scorer when he is the primary option. Imagine him playing in some middle of the pack ACB team with a bigger role and more freedom offensively. In the pre season where he was Reals leading guard (no Llull, Rudy) and getting lots of minutes, he was the best scorer of the team averaging close to 20ppg. He also had the best apg numbers and was one of the top rebounders as well. He has much improved in all areas in the last 5 months since then so I think next year when his role is bigger, his scoring numbers will go up by alot.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#34 » by Bob8 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:02 am

CalL wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:He had a pretty bad game in the ACB few days ago, but its nice to see him getting some shots off.

I think some people here who are not high on him would have a slightly better opinion of him, if Doncic was actually playing in these U18 games, and there was footage of him flat out dominating and putting big scoring numbers. But all we have is Real Madrid footage, where he gets like 4 shot attempts, so of course he doesn't look as impressive, especially for people who don't really follow euro ball.


He played this U18 games, won the tournament and was named MVP of the tournament, but this was 2 years ago, when he was only 15-16 years old. ;)

http://www.euroleaguebasketball.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=005929&seasoncode=JT14#!JT14_QRC

The mistake some people are making looking at him is, they're seeing him only as prospect, but he is beyond this already. He's Euroleague star at this moment. Many prospects we are looking at this moment will never play at his level. Saying that, we can't expect he will have great game every week, he's playing for Real Madrid and there are 15 good players who want their shots and playing time. It's natural his playing time and number of shots are lower than will be in any other smaller team. Don't forget he is only that young player who gets some playing time in Euroleague. Only other with good playing time is Zizic and he's 2 years older. And we have to understand he will have around 36 games in Euroleague, around 34 in ACB league + Coppa del Rey, Supercoppa... near 80 games in one season. This looks a bit heavy for 17 years old kid, and coach Laso knows that too. Where is his ceiling? I don't know, but being only 17 means, his body will improve, his skills will improve, he will be more experienced...And don't forget one important thing, the most difficult thing for any sportsman is a step from playing with kids to playing with adults. Many players are great playing U18 competitions and then disappear, not the same ballgame. Luka has already passed this with an A.


1) I think no one here really sees him as a prospect (anymore) ...
Pretty much everyone agrees that he is far more developed than all other european prospects born in 1998 or later. People only disagree wether he will be able to improve much more long term, because he already seems to have the body of a grown-up man.
The fact that he plays tons of minutes for the best non-NBA team should be proof enough that he isnt a normal prospect anymore.
In fact i would say that the problem with people, who dont rate Doncic as highly as you do, is that they dont see him as a prospect anymore, but as a fully developed player with not much more upside.
2) Doncic is a Euroleague star? What exactly do you mean by that?
3) Could you please stop your fanboy behavior, completely flipping out whenever someone doesnt share your opinion on Doncic?
Its perfectly fine to pick Ntilikina ahead of Doncic in an IMAGINARY 2017 draft where they would be both eligible. I think everyone here agrees that Doncic is the better player at the moment, but even you cant deny that Ntilikina has clearly more defensive potential, Doncic will never have the physical tools Ntilikina has, so i am sure that there are other people who would draft Ntilikina ahead of Doncic, if they are looking for a guard with amazing defensive potential, Doncic just cant offer that. I think 9 out of 10 teams (just a guess, maybe its only 8 out of 10, so lets not start a fight over this ... ) would draft Doncic ahead of Ntilikina, because he is a clearly better player at the moment and without a doubt has a higher floor, but i think that there would be at least one team that would draft Ntilikina ahead of him, because he is a better defender (with better physical tools) who might have a higher ceiling.

Just to make it clear: This is not about how i rate those two players (personally i am not even sure wether Ntilikina really has a higher ceiling as an overall player, but he for sure has more defensive potential, while Doncic at the other hand is clearly the better player at the moment), i just wanted to show that its not completely ridiculous to say that you would draft Ntilikina ahead of Doncic in this years draft, because you always have to look at the circumstances of each team and a team that needs a great defensive guard next to a scoring guard (Boston?, Phoenix?), might pick Ntilikina ahead of Doncic, just because he better fits their needs, not because they think that he is a better player overall.


If someone is saying, not you, Doncic is not in Ntilikina's league and is the same prospect as Kurucs, that's trolling for me. They're both older than Doncic, Kurucs is not even playing for the Barcelona first team and Ntilikina has a minor role in his French club. And we all know what Doncic is doing and what stats he has. And we know have difficult and rare is that in Euroleague. Not only for 17 years old kid, there's no other player under 20 who has important minutes or role in Euroleague. But like I said, I don't want to participate in that kind of discussions, with no arguments and double standards. There won't be problems with me anymore.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#35 » by reanimator » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:24 pm

I think it's most important to ask

1. For perimeter players, what translates from euroleague to the NBA and what does not? I'd say shooting/handling/passing but how effective those are depend on athleticism specifically foot speed and verticality which get downgraded at the NBA level
2. Is Doncic rate of improvement going to remain steady over the next couple of years?
3. What physical and skill attributes allow him to play with grown men at 17 and will those attributes always be advantages? Strength and fluidity physically. preternatural vision/good handle at 6'8 skill wise.

I guess the biggest obstacle in seeing a Lebron/Giannis/Harden role is the gap between those guys and Doncic where physical and athletic attributes are concerned. Heck, there is a gap between him and Iguodala/Hayward. Couple that with as you say him most likely not being a go to scorer, and I wonder.

I do think if he develops the post game further which would allow another way to run offense and face up as a scorer, starts working on the pull up off ball screens, and adds some crossovers, hesitation and general stop/go ability then it's easier to envision a volume scorer.

If you were to ask me, the biggest difference between Doncic and Hayward/Batum is he is much stronger at the same age. Those guys were twigs. Just how much stronger and taller can he get is a huge question.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#36 » by Kolkmania » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:29 pm

reanimator wrote:I think it's most important to ask

1. For perimeter players, what translates from euroleague to the NBA and what does not? I'd say shooting/handling/passing but how effective those are depend on athleticism specifically foot speed and verticality which get downgraded at the NBA level
2. Is Doncic rate of improvement going to remain steady over the next couple of years?
3. What physical and skill attributes allow him to play with grown men at 17 and will those attributes always be advantages? Strength and fluidity physically. preternatural vision/good handle at 6'8 skill wise.

I guess the biggest obstacle in seeing a Lebron/Giannis/Harden role is the gap between those guys and Doncic where physical and athletic attributes are concerned. Heck, there is a gap between him and Iguodala/Hayward. Couple that with as you say him most likely not being a go to scorer, and I wonder.

I do think if he develops the post game further which would allow another way to run offense and face up as a scorer, starts working on the pull up off ball screens, and adds some crossovers, hesitation and general stop/go ability then it's easier to envision a volume scorer.

If you were to ask me, the biggest difference between Doncic and Hayward/Batum is he is much stronger at the same age. Those guys were twigs. Just how much stronger and taller can he get is a huge question.


Good post.

Think the bold part is the most important question. Ricky Rubio was a monster at 19 years old, but he's basically the same player at age 26. If Doncic can improve his (lateral) quickness and creativity with the ball in his hands he could become a star in the NBA.

I do think that staying in Europe could hurt him in the long term, since I think his quickness is Doncic' biggest weakness. He's not overly exploited in Europe due to less athletic guards, so his development might not focus enough on his footwork.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#37 » by Sports Geek » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:54 pm

I want to point a fact out. Many people are doubting about Doncic's ceiling. I always ask for giving him the benefit of the doubt. Why? let me show you a good example.

Tennis. I know it is not the same sport but let me explain... A 17 y.o. Rafael Nadal beat Roger Federer (world's number one back then) 6-3, 6-3 in Miami's third round. Many people said: "wow, look at that kid..." Some other said then: "but he looks like a man already. He can't improve much more. Gasquet (his generation rival) is better, he has more shots, look at that one handed backhand. Nadal is as strong as any other pro already, he is physically mature, he can't get much stronger. He is close to his ceiling". Then he improved. And he got stronger and became the strongest ever and one of the best players in history, no doubt about it. Why did people have that attitude? It was just too good to be true, it was hard to believe.

I am not saying Doncic will be one of the best in history. But why couldn't Doncic develop like that? Let's give him the benefit of the doubt. The case is the same as Nadal's. We had never seen something like that.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#38 » by Sports Geek » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:06 pm

reanimator wrote:I do think if he develops the post game further which would allow another way to run offense and face up as a scorer, starts working on the pull up off ball screens, and adds some crossovers, hesitation and general stop/go ability then it's easier to envision a volume scorer.


I think you are wrong, I would say his stop and go ability is the best part of his offensive game. He does what he wants off a screen. Another non-basketball comparison (sorry about it): :lol:

Le'Veon Bell. All RBs get the ball and try to run straight through the opposite defensive line. Not Bell. He stops, he is patient, he looks around, finds the weak stop and attacks it. Some people could get desperate and say: why is he not running???!! Doncic does the same thing. He doesn't go straight to the basket when he gets off the pick. I have the feeling of everything being under control with him playing the pick & roll. The same feeling I have with Bell. Doncic always make the best decission. That's the most awesome part of his game. He seems to have the ability of stopping the time.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#39 » by reanimator » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:11 pm

Sports Geek wrote:
reanimator wrote:I do think if he develops the post game further which would allow another way to run offense and face up as a scorer, starts working on the pull up off ball screens, and adds some crossovers, hesitation and general stop/go ability then it's easier to envision a volume scorer.


I think you are wrong, I would say his stop and go ability is the best part of his offensive game. He does what he wants off a screen.


I might be wrong or my perception might simply be skewed but I haven't seen any film that makes me feel like he is a highly creative ballhandler or anything. If you have any examples then feel free to post them.
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Re: Luka Doncic 

Post#40 » by jrob23 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:38 am

Bob8 wrote:
CalL wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
He played this U18 games, won the tournament and was named MVP of the tournament, but this was 2 years ago, when he was only 15-16 years old. ;)

http://www.euroleaguebasketball.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=005929&seasoncode=JT14#!JT14_QRC

The mistake some people are making looking at him is, they're seeing him only as prospect, but he is beyond this already. He's Euroleague star at this moment. Many prospects we are looking at this moment will never play at his level. Saying that, we can't expect he will have great game every week, he's playing for Real Madrid and there are 15 good players who want their shots and playing time. It's natural his playing time and number of shots are lower than will be in any other smaller team. Don't forget he is only that young player who gets some playing time in Euroleague. Only other with good playing time is Zizic and he's 2 years older. And we have to understand he will have around 36 games in Euroleague, around 34 in ACB league + Coppa del Rey, Supercoppa... near 80 games in one season. This looks a bit heavy for 17 years old kid, and coach Laso knows that too. Where is his ceiling? I don't know, but being only 17 means, his body will improve, his skills will improve, he will be more experienced...And don't forget one important thing, the most difficult thing for any sportsman is a step from playing with kids to playing with adults. Many players are great playing U18 competitions and then disappear, not the same ballgame. Luka has already passed this with an A.


1) I think no one here really sees him as a prospect (anymore) ...
Pretty much everyone agrees that he is far more developed than all other european prospects born in 1998 or later. People only disagree wether he will be able to improve much more long term, because he already seems to have the body of a grown-up man.
The fact that he plays tons of minutes for the best non-NBA team should be proof enough that he isnt a normal prospect anymore.
In fact i would say that the problem with people, who dont rate Doncic as highly as you do, is that they dont see him as a prospect anymore, but as a fully developed player with not much more upside.
2) Doncic is a Euroleague star? What exactly do you mean by that?
3) Could you please stop your fanboy behavior, completely flipping out whenever someone doesnt share your opinion on Doncic?
Its perfectly fine to pick Ntilikina ahead of Doncic in an IMAGINARY 2017 draft where they would be both eligible. I think everyone here agrees that Doncic is the better player at the moment, but even you cant deny that Ntilikina has clearly more defensive potential, Doncic will never have the physical tools Ntilikina has, so i am sure that there are other people who would draft Ntilikina ahead of Doncic, if they are looking for a guard with amazing defensive potential, Doncic just cant offer that. I think 9 out of 10 teams (just a guess, maybe its only 8 out of 10, so lets not start a fight over this ... ) would draft Doncic ahead of Ntilikina, because he is a clearly better player at the moment and without a doubt has a higher floor, but i think that there would be at least one team that would draft Ntilikina ahead of him, because he is a better defender (with better physical tools) who might have a higher ceiling.

Just to make it clear: This is not about how i rate those two players (personally i am not even sure wether Ntilikina really has a higher ceiling as an overall player, but he for sure has more defensive potential, while Doncic at the other hand is clearly the better player at the moment), i just wanted to show that its not completely ridiculous to say that you would draft Ntilikina ahead of Doncic in this years draft, because you always have to look at the circumstances of each team and a team that needs a great defensive guard next to a scoring guard (Boston?, Phoenix?), might pick Ntilikina ahead of Doncic, just because he better fits their needs, not because they think that he is a better player overall.


If someone is saying, not you, Doncic is not in Ntilikina's league and is the same prospect as Kurucs, that's trolling for me. They're both older than Doncic, Kurucs is not even playing for the Barcelona first team and Ntilikina has a minor role in his French club. And we all know what Doncic is doing and what stats he has. And we know have difficult and rare is that in Euroleague. Not only for 17 years old kid, there's no other player under 20 who has important minutes or role in Euroleague. But like I said, I don't want to participate in that kind of discussions, with no arguments and double standards. There won't be problems with me anymore.


and to me...saying Doncic is a better NBA prospect than Ntilikina is trolling. But I'm not extremely biased either way. I'm just going by the eye test and how I project players. I honestly believe the Donicic hype is completely out of control. Way too much emotion in some of these responses when people don't agree with the narrative that he's the next and greatest thing. I hear the same from Fultz fanboys. Since none of these players are on my Celtics I reserve being a fanboy until they get drafted. Not sure why people are so invested in high school or college players. Donic is just a taller Kennard albeit with higher potential because of that height and potential to add another 2 inches. Just don't get it what all the fuss is about and calling others trolls for not believing the hype.

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