College basketball and 2017 draft - One more poll after last game

darealjuice · Post #761 » by **darealjuice** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:44 am

Phoenix-Sons wrote:From looking at the box score Josh Jackson hasn't had the best game.

Anyone watching KU-WVU right now?

Yeah rough game shooting for him, to the point where he missed a couple contested transition layups and a dunk. West Virginia plays a crazy pressure defense, they made everything difficult for Kansas today. His defense has been great, as has the rest of the team.

This game was insane though, Kansas was down 14 with 2:20, and they came back to send the game to OT and win.

Mulhollanddrive · Post #762 » by **Mulhollanddrive** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:46 am

Josh Jackson all-sorts tonight.

14 points, 11 rebounds, 5 steals, 3 assists, 6 / 8 FTs.

6 Turnovers, 4 / 13 FGs, 0 / 2 from 3.

I think he's going to be that type of player, has his flaws but high impact.

I just hope he's more Scottie Pippen than Josh Smith.

MrMiyagi · Post #763 » by **MrMiyagi** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:55 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:Josh Jackson all-sorts tonight.

14 points, 11 rebounds, 5 steals, 3 assists, 6 / 8 FTs.

6 Turnovers, 4 / 13 FGs, 0 / 2 from 3.

I think he's going to be that type of player, has his flaws but high impact.

I just hope he's more Scottie Pippen than Josh Smith.

Inconsistency as a freshman is normal, as is inconsistency as a Rookie. Hell, Russell Westbrook just had a 17, 4 and 4 on 5/19 from the field. I'm not worried about him, especially because he contributed in other ways. Had he disappeared completely - that would be a red flag. But he's done a pretty good job of being productive elsewhere.

MrMiyagi · Post #764 » by **MrMiyagi** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:23 am

Why is no one talking about the Louisville bigs Anas Mahmoud and Ray Spalding? Unlimited potential.

Post #765 » by **bwgood77** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:18 pm

Read on Twitter

Post #766 » by **Marcus** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:41 pm

MrMiyagi wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:Josh Jackson all-sorts tonight.

14 points, 11 rebounds, 5 steals, 3 assists, 6 / 8 FTs.

6 Turnovers, 4 / 13 FGs, 0 / 2 from 3.

I think he's going to be that type of player, has his flaws but high impact.

I just hope he's more Scottie Pippen than Josh Smith.

Inconsistency as a freshman is normal, as is inconsistency as a Rookie. Hell, Russell Westbrook just had a 17, 4 and 4 on 5/19 from the field. I'm not worried about him, especially because he contributed in other ways. Had he disappeared completely - that would be a red flag. But he's done a pretty good job of being productive elsewhere.

Pressed super hard in the beginning but did other things to contribute. started 0 of 6 then went 4 of 7 the rest of the way once he calmed down a bit.

Mulhollanddrive · Post #767 » by **Mulhollanddrive** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:12 am

Keep in mind if even if we finish 2nd or 3rd worst, we're still a 44% or 54% chance of drafting 4-5.

So it's only a flip of a coin that we could get one of Fultz, Ball, Jackson (assuming consensus top 3).

DaleyBlind · Post #768 » by **DaleyBlind** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:44 am

Our 2nd round pick will be interesting as well, wonder if we keep it. Draft and stash or maybe someone drops

Bogyo · Post #769 » by **Bogyo** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:41 pm

DaleyBlind wrote:Our 2nd round pick will be interesting as well, wonder if we keep it. Draft and stash or maybe someone drops

For sure. Rockets picked up Harrel at the exact same spot. He is not a world beater by any measure, but I still have no clue whatsoever how he fell that far.

darealjuice · Post #770 » by **darealjuice** » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:16 am

Watch on YouTube

Jayson Tatum had a huge game against a very disciplined, good Virginia defense today. 28 points, 8 boards, 1 steal, 1 block, 3 turnovers on 8/13 from the field, 6/7 from 3, and 6/6 from FT. I had really high expectations for him this season and he hasn't met them yet, but I'll be watching him to see if he starts turning it on and expanding his range through the end of conference play and into March.

Decent size, smooth, sneakily athletic, can really score in isolation, decent handles, solid passer, has played pretty good defense this year. His game kind of reminds me of a bigger Book sometimes, except not as good of a shooter. One thing I don't like about him is that he can be a bit of a ball stopper, but there's not doubt he can score. He has a nice looking jump shot, and 85% from FT this season projects him to develop into a 3-point shooter, although I'd like to see him shoot better from college 3 on the year. Plus he's one of the younger players in the draft and is over a year younger than Josh Jackson. Top 6 or so players in the draft are all players I'd be happy to add to the team, although right now I'd prefer any one of Fultz, Ball, and Jackson over DSJ, Tatum, and Isaac.

Mulhollanddrive · Post #771 » by **Mulhollanddrive** » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:48 am

Tatum's defense is probably the most underrated aspect of any of the top guys, he's so long and gets as many blocks and steals as Jackson and Isaac, and has a Duke best D-Rating of 92.

I'd be happy with any of the top 6 - Fultz, Smith, Jackson, Ball, Isaac, Tatum.

They all have ability to be multiple All-Stars and probably would have gone 1 or 2 in 2013 and 2016.

So as long as we finish bottom 5 (4 games clear), we have a 91-100% chance of picking top 6.

darealjuice · Post #772 » by **darealjuice** » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:56 am

Also, let this show you how small and unreliable the sample size for some of these guy's shooting percentages is at this point of the season: Jayson Tatum's 3-point FG% on the season raises from 31.7% to 37.3% after this one game of going 6/7 from 3. He has only made more than 1 3-pointer in 6 of the 18 he games he has played this season.

Mulhollanddrive · Post #773 » by **Mulhollanddrive** » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:08 am

What are the chances the PGs pull a Kris Dunn and refuse to visit?

Lonzo Ball and Dennis Smith have very influential dads who might prefer the starting PG role in LA, Philadelphia, Orlando.

Post #774 » by **ATTL** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:08 am

Mulhollanddrive wrote:What are the chances the PGs pull a Kris Dunn and refuse to visit?

Lonzo Ball and Dennis Smith have very influential dads who might prefer the starting PG role in LA, Philadelphia, Orlando.

If we tell their dads/agents(same thing?) That a bledsoe trade is imminent they probably agree to a visit. LA has Russell, Orlando has Payton, sixers may look to free agency to get jrue back.

Tatum reminds me a bit of jabari parker in college without the weight issues. Tatum has a good frame and He looks like he could play i the nba right away, unlike Ingram.

Sampagne · Post #775 » by **Sampagne** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:51 am

Markelle Fultz is a game time decision tonight against Arizona st. can catch him at 11pm if he does play

DirtyDez · Post #776 » by **DirtyDez** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:34 am

I have trouble seeing any scenario where Fultz doesn't go #1. As good as he is in the half court I think he has star potential at two positions if need be. Honestly I think he's Penny 2.0

My only knock on him is having questionable judgement in head coaches. Nobody thought Chriss & Murray were one and done at the time Fultz commuted there (Dec 2015). Look what Chriss is starting to do now at the NBA level.

Hopefully Romar gets fired and Michael Porter opens his recruitment back up and decides to play with Ayton. :pray:

darealjuice · Post #777 » by **darealjuice** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:54 am

Zelaznyrules wrote:[
It's funny that all of Fultz's shortcomings are being ignored and Ball, who pretty much dominated him head to head, is being torn apart for things that are really nothing more than guesses. You haven't seen him fail to get that 3 point shot off, people are just guessing he won't be able to. Same with his two point shot.

He's been able to get anything he wants and the modern game is ideal for long distance shooters and players that can take the ball to the hoop. Since he can get either of those, that's what he does and he hasn't needed to force anything from the NBA''s version of no mans land. But now it's just assumed that he can't do it when the evidence gives us nothing, either way. Maybe he doesn't have that ability but again that's just a guess, not a projection, as there's no data to support a projection. And like I said, same with his outside shot. The guy takes on every challenge, whether it's Oregon's best player or Fultz and he wins.

What even are Fultz's shortcomings? That the players around him don't stack up, his coach is one of the worst in CBB, and his team doesn't win games? His offensive game is very polished, and his defense is no worse than Lonzo's. We haven't seen Lonzo fail to get his 3-point shot off because he's typically shooting 5 feet behind the line unless he's wide open. Is he going to have to continue doing that in the NBA to get his shot off, and how will that effect his efficiency? He has NBA range now, but he doesn't get defended at that range like he will when get gets in the league.

Scouting as a whole is educated guessing. There's no exact science, we've seen players that shot very well in college come into the league and not be able to adjust to the range just like we've seen players with flaws come in and succeed despite them. I'm not disputing that Ball is a great prospect, he's the best pure point guard in this draft and I really am a big fan of his, but it's the small details that separate you from your competition when you're battling for the #1 spot, which is why people focus on his shot mechanics so much and why it's a knock on him even though he's shot well this year.

MrMiyagi · Post #778 » by **MrMiyagi** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:59 am

Zelaznyrules wrote:It's funny that all of Fultz's shortcomings are being ignored and Ball, who pretty much dominated him head to head, is being torn apart for things that are really nothing more than guesses. You haven't seen him fail to get that 3 point shot off, people are just guessing he won't be able to. Same with his two point shot.

He's been able to get anything he wants and the modern game is ideal for long distance shooters and players that can take the ball to the hoop. Since he can get either of those, that's what he does and he hasn't needed to force anything from the NBA''s version of no mans land. But now it's just assumed that he can't do it when the evidence gives us nothing, either way. Maybe he doesn't have that ability but again that's just a guess, not a projection, as there's no data to support a projection. And like I said, same with his outside shot. The guy takes on every challenge, whether it's Oregon's best player or Fultz and he wins.

I'll be honest and say I haven't watched much of Washington this season other than their showdown with the Cats. Fultz had a pretty bad shooting night, 8-23 from the floor 0-4 from 3. I think it was easy for the Cats to contain him because he really didn't seem to have much help. I'll say that he does have an ease about his game, but I wasn't wowed the way I am consistently with Ball. I'll watch tonight against whoever they're playing ( :wink:

) after the Cats game wraps up.

I'm on the record with being supremely comfortable taking Ball 1st overall. I don't think I've said it outright, but I'd say the same for Josh Jackson. I'll see if Fultz leapfrogs them or puts himself in the same category. I'm really looking to be contrarian, I just don't have the level of familiarity with Fultz as I do with Ball and Jackson - same goes with Smith.

Out of curiosity, what do you think are Fultz's shortcomings?

Zelaznyrules · Post #779 » by **Zelaznyrules** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:03 am

DirtyDez wrote:I have trouble seeing any scenario where Fultz doesn't go #1. As good as he is in the half court I think he has star potential at two positions if need be. Honestly I think he's Penny 2.0

My only knock on him is having questionable judgement in head coaches. Nobody thought Chriss & Murray were one and done at the time Fultz commuted there (Dec 2015). Look what Chriss is starting to do now at the NBA level.

Hopefully Romar gets fired and Michael Porter opens his recruitment back up and decides to play with Ayton.

Don't get me wrong, I think the odds are good that Fultz will go number one. I just don't believe the argument over him and Ball is manufactured. I'm quite sure the Lakers would kill to take Ball no matter where they drafted. I think the Suns might even take him first too. And I think a lot of scouts would view him as a higher up-side player when compared to Fultz. But Fultz comes with fewer question marks as a pro, it's almost impossible to think he'll be any less than an all star level player. But Ball will have a chance to alleviate some of those concerns and move above Markelle depending on how he plays come March. So I disagree with the notion that the argument has already been closed. The debate has barely begun.

MrMiyagi · Post #780 » by **MrMiyagi** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:03 am

Sampagne wrote:Markelle Fultz is a game time decision tonight against Arizona st. can catch him at 11pm if he does play

He will be playing tonight, for those wondering.

If we have the 1st or 2nd pick, and take Ball, how will you feel