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Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#421 » by LukasBMW » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:05 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Zelaznyrules wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:
Could not disagree more. What's the end game with adding more age? What we need is to get prepared for a window that makes sense. Draft picks are assets that we can use to add a vet star to this team when it actually makes sense to do it. Our quickest route to contention isn't through trades--it's through asset accumulation, free agency, and continuous development and good drafting. I think we have drafted well. I think we have accumulated assets well (regardless of the Knight trade). Development is still TBD. Free agency we have been close and by reports done well, but at some point we obviously have to win the wars there.


Yeah, I agree. I mean, what's the end game for that approach? And this is coming from someone that really doesn't care all that much about the Suns winning a championship. I love watching my team play. I need to believe we are building towards the possibility of a championship but the actual title isn't going to change my life one bit. I'll enjoy it but I tend to enjoy just about every win. I want us to put together a team that entertains, brings in fans and positive media attention and has a chance to become a real winner. The rest of it tends to be just luck. But simply putting together enough pieces to be competitive without any real hope for playoff success along the way? No thanks.


Yes, just having a team that I feel has some sort of chance at the title, even if it's not certain, or even just getting to the second round and having great battles, etc....this is what makes it fun.

Titles are unrealistic. We will probably never see them. If every team had an equal chance at a title, you would on avg win one about every 30 years. Right now we have juggernauts, and the bad thing is, the Warriors are young.

But realistically the same 3-5 teams will dominate championships over a 10 year period. So can we get into that top 3-5 teams? Tough. If we can even get into the next tier, I'm happy. Yes, it's easy to agree with "We need to make every move to make sure we win the title" and such statements, but it's unrealistic. It takes a TON of luck and a ton of great management, coaching, etc. We have none of that currently. BUT, we have a rookie GM and coach and a very young team. So there is a lot more hope for me now than Blanks, Babby, Hunter, Beasley, Brown, Scola, Gortat, etc.

Trading a boatload for Cousins (who likely signs his $200M deal with the Kings this summer anyway) or Butler only sets us back long term...it might help a tad to get us a 6-8 seed and get destroyed first round. What's the point, and our future and assets are gone.

Sarver has been shortsighted ever since he bought the team. This would be the absolute WORST time to be shortsighted.


If we double down on assets by trading vets, we will realistically have a good shot at the 1st pick this year, 2018, 2019, and maybe even beyond.

Getting the #1 this year and drafting Fultz AND possibly getting a top pick in the next few drafts to add a center could be a better long term strategy.

Imagine pairing a top 3 talent PG and top 3 talent center with Bender/Chriss/Booker/TJ/Ulis + whatever picks we get for Tyson/Bledsoe/Tucker.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#422 » by MrMiyagi » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:08 am

Could you imagine if Golden State decided to move Klay, Draymond and Harrison to get Kobe Bryant and Dirk Nowitzki during or after the 2012-13 season? Does Steph, Kobe and Dirk make the playoffs? Sure. Hell, they might even get a ring. But do they make back to back (with the possibility to add two more "to back"s) finals? No **** way. I mean, Klay was a nice player then, but was he Kobe good? Who wouldn't give up Draymond and Harrison Barnes for Dirk back then?

I say keep our young guys together. If CP3 can't win with Reddick, Griffin and Jordan, what makes you think he can win with Carmelo, Booker and Tyson Chandler? And who the **** is our bench?! "People will come ring chasing." Oh yeah? Over Cleveland or Golden State or San Antonio - the proven winners?
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#423 » by asudevil » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:16 am

Kerrsed wrote:The article posted states that the writer spoke with another teams GM and he was the one that was quoted as saying, "that the Suns would love to package their assets to acquire a star" and that he was "stunned that the Suns haven’t been talked about more leading up to the trade deadline because they are looking to make a big move.".

That has been McD's mission for a while now, re-create what he helped do in Boston. With that anonymous GM being quoted, it sounds like maybe we have put out more than a few offers out there or even some feelers on star players. With all that being said, and me racking my brain to come up with a Boston-Big-3-ish move that could be somewhat possible with damn near all our valuable assets, there is one that seems at least somewhat plausible.

One of the biggest "disgruntled" stars that is known to be looking for a new team is Melo. Say what you want about him, he is still a star player that puts up crazy stats and still has a great PER. Now the issue with Melo is his No-Trade clause in his contract, and he has to agree to waive it before being traded, and lets face it, as the Suns roster currently sits, there is no way in hell he would even entertain the idea of playing here.

Now this is where things could get interesting. Just like when we were courting Aldridge, we approached and signed a friend of his, one that he always wanted to play with (Chandler) to help lure him to the valley, which worked......until Coach Pop pulled off his black magic voodoo in the 11th hour. Now when i think of who would help Melo change his mind about playing in Phoenix, a few names pop into my head, but one of them seems like the most realistic route to take. He too is currently an all-star on a playoff-bound team, but that team is also headed for a rough road as he is currently expected to miss the next month or so. Yes, i am talking about CP3. Since his injury, the Clippers have gone 5-7, and even though they are currently 4th in the West, the are only 3 games ahead of being knocked all the way down to the 8th spot.

Now why would LA entertain such a trade? Because we have on of their old fan favorites, many of whom were pissed off when he was traded away for scraps, Bledsoe. While we could let CP3 heal for the rest of the season if so be, the Clippers could slide Bledsoe right in and keep their playoff position in tact. It could also make them major players when the Kings decide to move on from Cousins, and i dont know about you guys, but a Bledsoe/Griffin/Cousins trio would be a very exciting trio to watch.

But back to the Suns... with CP3 added to the squad, i think Melo would be more than ok with playing in a Suns jersey. So next season could start out with CP3/Booker/??????/Melo/Chandler. Yes, its an older squad again, but one that would bring us much much much close to a title. We also know there is another name out there (that many people HATE, but cant deny that he is one of the greatest), that is also a part of the "Superfriends" and is hoping to play with the other two as well, and he is conveniently on a year-to-year contract, allowing him to leave his current team when he see's fit. Someone that we might be in favor with his agent after sending Bledsoe to the big market LA team.

Sure it could cost us an arm and a leg to accomplish this, but i think it could be done while also keeping Booker and a few more of our assets. Melo? maybe something like Warren/Len/Knight/and a 1st. This deal would also save the Knicks around $6M right off the back this season. I think we could get CP3 (if McD talks to them right) for Bledsoe/Bender or Chriss/a future 1st. They too would be taking back less in salary and would be saving around $5M this season.

All in all, with all our outgoing players in those trade going into effect, and the addition of CP3 and Melo, our team would be sitting at around $83M next season, while the cap is set at $102M.


CP3: this needs to be addressed.

Let's say LA is willing to trade CP3. Why? 2 reasons.

A.) they are going the tank mode. SO in order for them to make such a deal, then DJ/Griffin are out the door in extremely soon, very huge trades. Because, well downgrading from CP3 to Bledsoe indicates a rebuild (because well, we are adding youth/pick). The likelyhood of that happening is extremely small in the time frame allowed.
B.) LA believes that swapping out CP3 for Bledsoe keeps them just as good or better. They intend to resign Griffin and keep DJ and keep their window open. In that case, we are we adding so much more value to the trade when Bledsoe doesnt move the bar?

No reason to add so much value for a player that LA believes keeps them competitive, OR if LA is giving up on the chase there has to be at least 2 more huge moves between now and the trade deadline.

As far as trading for Melo. At this point i have no idea what his value is. They have no use for anything on this roster except for youth/picks which would gut the roster. If i was NY i'd trade Melo for expirings and picks. Use cap space to sign players that make them competitive (keeping casuals happy) and then build from the backend with the draft (keeping die-hards happy). We dont have much on our roster to facilitate that.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#424 » by AtheJ415 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:25 am

Kerrsed wrote:The article posted states that the writer spoke with another teams GM and he was the one that was quoted as saying, "that the Suns would love to package their assets to acquire a star" and that he was "stunned that the Suns haven’t been talked about more leading up to the trade deadline because they are looking to make a big move.".

That has been McD's mission for a while now, re-create what he helped do in Boston. With that anonymous GM being quoted, it sounds like maybe we have put out more than a few offers out there or even some feelers on star players. With all that being said, and me racking my brain to come up with a Boston-Big-3-ish move that could be somewhat possible with damn near all our valuable assets, there is one that seems at least somewhat plausible.

One of the biggest "disgruntled" stars that is known to be looking for a new team is Melo. Say what you want about him, he is still a star player that puts up crazy stats and still has a great PER. Now the issue with Melo is his No-Trade clause in his contract, and he has to agree to waive it before being traded, and lets face it, as the Suns roster currently sits, there is no way in hell he would even entertain the idea of playing here.

Now this is where things could get interesting. Just like when we were courting Aldridge, we approached and signed a friend of his, one that he always wanted to play with (Chandler) to help lure him to the valley, which worked......until Coach Pop pulled off his black magic voodoo in the 11th hour. Now when i think of who would help Melo change his mind about playing in Phoenix, a few names pop into my head, but one of them seems like the most realistic route to take. He too is currently an all-star on a playoff-bound team, but that team is also headed for a rough road as he is currently expected to miss the next month or so. Yes, i am talking about CP3. Since his injury, the Clippers have gone 5-7, and even though they are currently 4th in the West, the are only 3 games ahead of being knocked all the way down to the 8th spot.

Now why would LA entertain such a trade? Because we have on of their old fan favorites, many of whom were pissed off when he was traded away for scraps, Bledsoe. While we could let CP3 heal for the rest of the season if so be, the Clippers could slide Bledsoe right in and keep their playoff position in tact. It could also make them major players when the Kings decide to move on from Cousins, and i dont know about you guys, but a Bledsoe/Griffin/Cousins trio would be a very exciting trio to watch.

But back to the Suns... with CP3 added to the squad, i think Melo would be more than ok with playing in a Suns jersey. So next season could start out with CP3/Booker/??????/Melo/Chandler. Yes, its an older squad again, but one that would bring us much much much close to a title. We also know there is another name out there (that many people HATE, but cant deny that he is one of the greatest), that is also a part of the "Superfriends" and is hoping to play with the other two as well, and he is conveniently on a year-to-year contract, allowing him to leave his current team when he see's fit. Someone that we might be in favor with his agent after sending Bledsoe to the big market LA team.

Sure it could cost us an arm and a leg to accomplish this, but i think it could be done while also keeping Booker and a few more of our assets. Melo? maybe something like Warren/Len/Knight/and a 1st. This deal would also save the Knicks around $6M right off the back this season. I think we could get CP3 (if McD talks to them right) for Bledsoe/Bender or Chriss/a future 1st. They too would be taking back less in salary and would be saving around $5M this season.

All in all, with all our outgoing players in those trade going into effect, and the addition of CP3 and Melo, our team would be sitting at around $83M next season, while the cap is set at $102M.


:o :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Both ideas make me want to vomit. Melo has a great PER because he is a great offensive player. He is also a horrendous defensively player who is old, overpaid, and has not shown he can be the guy on a title team at any point since he left Denver. Trading Warren, Len, Knight and a 1st is a horrifying move that would literally make me choose to root for another team until McD got fired. He's 32 and has like a $10 mil trade kicker on top of his maxed out, long-term salary.

I'll start off with the basic premise that Melo is still a great player because of his great PER. His ORtg is not all that good (110). He shoots well from 3 on the year, but his 2 point shooting is down and actually the worst of all players in that group he is getting traded for except for Knight. This is why his ORtg is barely higher than Len's (108). Then you get to DRtg (112). So we're talking a guy who gives up 2 more points every 100 possessions than he would score, and also gets beyond (thanks to the trade kicker) maxed out through age 37 or so to do it. That's before even diving into his horrific defensive numbers.

That is a move that sets this franchise back a decade and doesn't make the playoffs. That is volunteering to be the Nets in the Celtics Nets deal for KG and Pierce.

The 2nd one involving Paul makes more sense only in the fact that Paul is still a damn good player (unlike Melo), and his offensive and defensive advanced stats (not just PER) bear that out. He has a whopping 23 PPG Ortg-Drtg, and his WS is still crazy high, as are his numbers across the board. That said, he's 31, and not even he could drag that Suns team anywhere. That is nowhere near as good as his Clippers teams from the past few years. Trading all of those guys for him is a horrible move. Not at his age. Not with what it would leave us with. Particularly not with Melo.

I hate to break it to you, but Booker is good for his age--he isn't that legitimately good yet. Thus, a lineup of Paul, Booker, Tucker, Melo, Chandler is just absolute trash. You do that if the goal is to beat the Hornets. You don't make that move to win a title.

Also, with the Clippers, you mention them pairing Bledsoe, Griffin, and Cousins. With what would they trade to get Cousins? They have no picks of their own, and while Deandre is great, why would a rebuilding Sac want someone Deandre's age? I guess you think our assets are what nets them Cousins. If that is the case, why wouldn't we just go after Cousins ourselves? He makes immensely more sense than trading for 31+ year old stars who are ultra demanding and one who is not a true star anymore with a trade kicker.

We have a future star who is 20 and a bunch of promising 19 year olds and high upcoming picks and we should trade them to become maybe, if all falls perfectly, the 3rd or 4th best team in the conference?

If we're giving up that much in assets, we better be getting Cousins and Butler back, who at least are young enough to keep our window reasonable. If we make those trades for Melo and Paul we will be better for 2 years and then royally screwed.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#425 » by AtheJ415 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:30 am

asudevil wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:I don't fault mcd for not landing some big star in a trade but i do fault him for putting too many of his team building eggs into that strategy basket. Sure he saw it work in Boston but its not a super viable strategy overall. I wish he would have put more of an emphasis on mining that diamond in a rough later draft pick or trade for a guy who breaks out. Find that draymond green or jokic in round 2. Ill give him credit for landing bledsoe in a good trade and booker late lotto but hes missed more than hit so far. Its an important 12 months coming up for him because if he doesn't do some good things by the end of next year he should be gone.

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I cannot really agree with much of this.

Putting your eggs in a 2nd round basket is not really viable. Of course their are guys who pan out in the 2nd. But you'd be hard pressed to find teams who absolutely WANTED their guy in the 2nd AND have that guy pan out. More often than not GMs shrug their shoulders and say "well i guess that's the best i guess" and hope that guy pans out.

He also did the best he could with the Marcus/Markieff situation. The two had become a cancer to the team. We basically gave away the lesser of the two in the hopes that it would straighten Markieff out. It only made Markieff more bitter. Then he did something nobody would have ever thought possible....we traded him for a late lotto pick. Most thought we'd have to give up an asset, but we didnt.

In the last draft there were MANY who were hooked on Bender, and others who thought Chriss should be our pick. What did he do? He got both. And IF either/both dont pan out, fans who were happy we drafted them have nothing to complain about.

Signing Chandler and not getting LMA....well i have NO PROBLEM with that. Chandler is putting up 8.5/11.5 on 67% shooting. He is a quality C, and while older, is living up to his contract. And signing Dudley/Barbosa, again its not like either of those two are preventing us from doing anything.

And Dragic. He was not happy, so he was traded for two potentially extremely valuable lotto picks. He made the best of that situation with that.

We must not also forget:

Scola for Green/Plumlee/First (Ennis)
He did resign both Marcus/Markieff to team friendly contracts (at the time they were steals)
Signed IT to a crazy good contract
Trading Gortat for a First (TJ Warren)
--------------

IMO though he will never live down the IT/Dragic/Lakers pick fiasco.

At the time though, that Lakers pick was seen to be EXTREMELY volatile. Who would have figured that the Lakers would end the career of a top5 player of all time as a lotto team. I was CERTAIN they would pull a Lakers move and AT LEAST earn themselves a playoff seed at any cost. And i was CERTAIN that pick would be a late lotto pick at worst when it was finally given up. At the time would i have made the same trade with the same players leaving and coming in? Absolutely not. But honestly both the Suns and Bucks probably regret that trade today.

And IT, i believe that the suns saw him only as an asset. Nothing useful for the longterm success of the team. They signed him cheap with the idea of flipping him for something. They did sell low, and the thought at the time was that it was a win trade because they added a first rounder for free. And that trade was useful in acquiring Chriss.

At the end of the 12/13 season the roster was something like:

Gortat/O'Neal
Scola/Markieff
Tucker/Marcus/Beasley
Dudley/Brown
Dragic/Marshall

An ABSOLUTE DISASTER.

Today:

Chandler/Len
Chriss/Dudley
Warren/Tucker/Bender
Booker/Knight
Bledsoe/Ulis/Barbosa

2017 First top3
2018 Heat First (top7 protected)
2021 Heat First (unprotected)

-------------

Of course at this point i'd be MUCH happier with the idea of having the Lakers pick and not have to moan about having Knight....but after inheriting a mess, this franchise looks 10x better than it did 3 years ago (and i'm speaking about from July 13 to July 16). And this roster has more promise than at least half of the bottom ten teams in the league today.

The direction of this franchise will be dictated in the next 6 months (trade deadline/draft/FA) and that is when i will start being super critical of McD. Until then, i can fault some of the things he has done, but i honestly have to be happy with where we are RIGHT NOW.


Can't +1 this enough. Look at the roster he inherited. I know people are rightly upset about the Knight deal, but holy hell, how can anyone look at the promise and progress relative to 3 years ago and say he's doing it wrong. And we have drafted later than many teams I would not trade rosters for today in terms of future upside.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#426 » by asudevil » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:33 am

There have been a few here looking to trade Bledsoe. I'm coming around to that idea.

Suns trade: Bledsoe/Knight
Suns get: Evans/Pels 2017 First

Suns clear contracts. With our own 2017 First we draft a star PG. And we can go after need with the Pels 2017. With our cap space/picks we could also go after a star or two via trade. I'd even be willing to eat Hill's terrible contract if we are going the long rebuild mode.

Pels trade: Evans/Holiday/Pels 2017 First
Pels get: Bledsoe/Knight/Okafor or Noah

Let's face it. NO is not a FA destination. Here they consolidate their pick/expirings for long term contracts that can help keep them competitive with Davis. The last thing they should do with Davis is waste his prime being a lotto team. Either Noah or Okafor are long term solutions at C for them.

Sixers trade: Okafor or Noah
Sixers get: Holiday

Sixers trade their depth at C for an established PG. Their next step at being a playoff team. They can max out Holiday easily while also adding to their depth via FA.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#427 » by thamadkant » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:44 am

100% ZERO NIL CHANCE Suns go for Melo.

He's done as a star... he's a former star who hasnt faced his fate and still adamant to be a isolation player in a league where passing and movement is becoming the winning strategy.



Cousins is the player Suns are likely targeting. He dominates inside and if surrounded by shooter would put up 30 a night due to the open space. Yet he can actually find open players who slash and spot up.


The other player or players are
- Paul George
- Gordon Hayward
- Jimmy Butler



2 Stars.

If Suns can get 2 Stars, they'll package the assets.


if Not... they tank.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#428 » by Qwigglez » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:59 am

I'm still hoping we put together a package (besides Book/Bledsoe/BenderorChriss) for Cousins. I'd prefer we keep Bender. His three ball is money. He has a beautiful jumper for a 7 footer. He has amazing basketball IQ and his defense is better than I expected. Chriss has been given an amazing opportunity to start and he has been playing like trash this month shooting 36% from the field. I know Ray Ray has mentioned Chriss is on the untouchable list, but I would trade him for Cousins. He' been given the green light lately and that makes me wonder if McD has told Watson to give Chriss more shots to showcase him. I'd expect it would make a great headline that Chriss returns to play for his hometown team.

*edit*
I'd like to add that the Kings are on a 4 game winning streak. They are 1.5 games out of the 8th seed, and this is without Rudy Gay. I am not sure they are interested in trading Cousins at this point even if they lose to the Warriors tonight. What's funny is, last year they finished the season with a 33-49 record (.402) and right now they are sitting at .429. Interesting that last year 12 teams finished below .500, with the Jazz 1 game below .500. This year we got 17 teams under .500. I don't understand why any team wants to finish with the 8th seed In the Western Conference, they'll still be below .500 and they face the mighty Warriors.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#429 » by jredsaz » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:57 pm

Don't look now but the Kings have the 12th pick in the draft and would have to send it to Chicago if the lottery fell like this.

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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#430 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:14 pm

asudevil wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:I don't fault mcd for not landing some big star in a trade but i do fault him for putting too many of his team building eggs into that strategy basket. Sure he saw it work in Boston but its not a super viable strategy overall. I wish he would have put more of an emphasis on mining that diamond in a rough later draft pick or trade for a guy who breaks out. Find that draymond green or jokic in round 2. Ill give him credit for landing bledsoe in a good trade and booker late lotto but hes missed more than hit so far. Its an important 12 months coming up for him because if he doesn't do some good things by the end of next year he should be gone.

Sent from my SM-G930V using RealGM mobile app


I cannot really agree with much of this.

Putting your eggs in a 2nd round basket is not really viable. Of course their are guys who pan out in the 2nd. But you'd be hard pressed to find teams who absolutely WANTED their guy in the 2nd AND have that guy pan out. More often than not GMs shrug their shoulders and say "well i guess that's the best i guess" and hope that guy pans out.

He also did the best he could with the Marcus/Markieff situation. The two had become a cancer to the team. We basically gave away the lesser of the two in the hopes that it would straighten Markieff out. It only made Markieff more bitter. Then he did something nobody would have ever thought possible....we traded him for a late lotto pick. Most thought we'd have to give up an asset, but we didnt.

In the last draft there were MANY who were hooked on Bender, and others who thought Chriss should be our pick. What did he do? He got both. And IF either/both dont pan out, fans who were happy we drafted them have nothing to complain about.

Signing Chandler and not getting LMA....well i have NO PROBLEM with that. Chandler is putting up 8.5/11.5 on 67% shooting. He is a quality C, and while older, is living up to his contract. And signing Dudley/Barbosa, again its not like either of those two are preventing us from doing anything.

And Dragic. He was not happy, so he was traded for two potentially extremely valuable lotto picks. He made the best of that situation with that.

We must not also forget:

Scola for Green/Plumlee/First (Ennis)
He did resign both Marcus/Markieff to team friendly contracts (at the time they were steals)
Signed IT to a crazy good contract
Trading Gortat for a First (TJ Warren)
--------------

IMO though he will never live down the IT/Dragic/Lakers pick fiasco.

At the time though, that Lakers pick was seen to be EXTREMELY volatile. Who would have figured that the Lakers would end the career of a top5 player of all time as a lotto team. I was CERTAIN they would pull a Lakers move and AT LEAST earn themselves a playoff seed at any cost. And i was CERTAIN that pick would be a late lotto pick at worst when it was finally given up. At the time would i have made the same trade with the same players leaving and coming in? Absolutely not. But honestly both the Suns and Bucks probably regret that trade today.

And IT, i believe that the suns saw him only as an asset. Nothing useful for the longterm success of the team. They signed him cheap with the idea of flipping him for something. They did sell low, and the thought at the time was that it was a win trade because they added a first rounder for free. And that trade was useful in acquiring Chriss.

At the end of the 12/13 season the roster was something like:

Gortat/O'Neal
Scola/Markieff
Tucker/Marcus/Beasley
Dudley/Brown
Dragic/Marshall

An ABSOLUTE DISASTER.

Today:

Chandler/Len
Chriss/Dudley
Warren/Tucker/Bender
Booker/Knight
Bledsoe/Ulis/Barbosa

2017 First top3
2018 Heat First (top7 protected)
2021 Heat First (unprotected)

-------------

Of course at this point i'd be MUCH happier with the idea of having the Lakers pick and not have to moan about having Knight....but after inheriting a mess, this franchise looks 10x better than it did 3 years ago (and i'm speaking about from July 13 to July 16). And this roster has more promise than at least half of the bottom ten teams in the league today.

The direction of this franchise will be dictated in the next 6 months (trade deadline/draft/FA) and that is when i will start being super critical of McD. Until then, i can fault some of the things he has done, but i honestly have to be happy with where we are RIGHT NOW.


I should note I don't think it's all been bad. Hell I loved what they did on draft day getting both Chriss and Bender. That bought McD more time in my book. But ultimately those guys will need to produce to count that as a win.

I wasn't saying they should put all their eggs in the 2nd round basket. What I was saying is a GM needs to be able to mine some talent from unexpected places. McD simply hasn't done that yet; they don't have a single long term rotation piece that wasn't a lotto pick or old vet they signed to a big contract. I realize finding a Jokic or Green is hard but at least find a Jordan Clarkson or Clint Cappella along the way.

I disagree that the Markeif and Dragic situations were handled well. With Goran they needed to understand that he wouldn't be happy with the set up going into that year.. which was fine but they absolutely should have moved him that summer and if they had he would have fetched more than those Miami picks. He made the best of a bad situation getting two first and those picks could be good but they also could end up in the 20's. Again with Markief he made the best of a bad situation by getting that 1st rounder but it was ridiculous having a sulking Keif on that team to start the season. Should have moved him right after they kicked Marcus to the curb.... now who knows what was being offered but it's reasonable to believe it would have been just as good or better of an asset than that pick since they got that pick after he pouted for half a year and drove his value down.

You mention the Gortat trade that didn't land Warren that landed Ennis who is barely and NBA player and was shipped out in the tragic Knight deal. Sure they got Green and Plumlee too but ultimately green left for nothing and Plumlee was also shipped in the Knight deal. Bogdan was also in that deal and can be considered a win since it helped land Chriss.

Draft wise his first year was Len and Archie. Archie is out of the league and Len is probably a slight negative when grading his drafts. It didn't help that he signed Chandler to block Len's playing time.

Warren was his next pick and might be a rotation player but at best I would consider this pick a push.

Booker- good pick.

Bender, Chris, and Ulis - jury is still out.

As I stated I'm totally good with giving him the next year before judging but he needs to start adding some wins to the GM ledger. No GM is going to nail every draft pick or win every trade but to keep your job you need to have more positives than negatives.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#431 » by Qwigglez » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:27 pm

jredsaz wrote:Don't look now but the Kings have the 12th pick in the draft and would have to send it to Chicago if the lottery fell like this.

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I think this is what is holding up Okafor to Chicago trade. Bulls would likely trade that pick for Okafor, but Philly wants to make sure they get the pick and doesn't stay with the Kings. Hopefully that makes sense.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#432 » by Qwigglez » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:28 pm

Would you guys be interested in Andre Drummond?
Bledsoe/Chandler 2018 Miami 1st for Drummond? Have to add salaries to make it work.

Draft Fultz...
Fultz/Booker/Bender/Chriss/Drummond :D
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#433 » by WeekapaugGroove » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:34 pm

Qwigglez wrote:Would you guys be interested in Andre Drummond?
Bledsoe/Chandler 2018 Miami 1st for Drummond? Have to add salaries to make it work.

Draft Fultz...
Fultz/Booker/Bender/Chriss/Drummond :D


Depending on the cost I could be down for adding Drummond. He's an interesting player because while he blocks some shots he's kind of a bad defender overall. I love his rebounding though and it would come in handy with Bender and Chriss as PF's because neither of those two project as great rebounders. They are also the floor spacing type 4's that you need to pair with a guy like Drummond.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#434 » by kennydorglas » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:48 pm

Detroit just paid Drummond the max and now they're open to trade him? lol
I wouldnt touch him at all, paying big money for a guy who cant stay in the court in crunch time? No tks
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#435 » by Qwigglez » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:10 pm

kennydorglas wrote:Detroit just paid Drummond the max and now they're open to trade him? lol
I wouldnt touch him at all, paying big money for a guy who cant stay in the court in crunch time? No tks


I don't trust a guy that shoots a higher FG% than FT%. He doesn't seem motivated this year either.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#436 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:19 pm

Qwigglez wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:Detroit just paid Drummond the max and now they're open to trade him? lol
I wouldnt touch him at all, paying big money for a guy who cant stay in the court in crunch time? No tks


I don't trust a guy that shoots a higher FG% than FT%. He doesn't seem motivated this year either.


Len outplayed him this year. So, no, not comfortable.

Of the players on our roster, the guy I'm most eager to trade at this point is Chandler. I would like Len to take his minutes. After that, Tucker. I would like D Jones to get his minutes. After that, Bledsoe, Knight or Barbosa. I would like to see Ulis get those minutes.

And while I see the wisdom in being open to dealing Bled, I still think it's highly unlikely and should be highly unlikely. We're not likely to get a cornerstone for dealing him. If we do decide to deal him, I have to imagine we won't be in a worse position to do so on draft day.

So, deal Chandler, Tucker and Barbosa in a deal that brings back a future first or significant Euro player rights. Assume TJ is not a long-term piece. Rest Bledsoe a bit. Keep moving forward.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#437 » by bwgood77 » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:19 pm

FYI, because I think people may have missed the following information or not checked standings:

Indy says they are not trading George and are firmly in the playoff picture.

Jazz are a top 4 or 5 seed and they won't trade Hayward with this playoff push and exciting team. Had they not been injured to start season they would have quite a bit better record.

Sacramento has said they want to give Cousins the huge max he is eligible for and indications are Cousins will take it. With a shot at the playoffs, he won't be traded before the deadline with so many games left.

Some some realistic trades might be good to see.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#438 » by gaspar » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:26 pm

Andre Drummond is a fraud. His impact on the court is nowhere close to what his stats indicate.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#439 » by gaspar » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:29 pm

Qwigglez wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:Detroit just paid Drummond the max and now they're open to trade him? lol
I wouldnt touch him at all, paying big money for a guy who cant stay in the court in crunch time? No tks


I don't trust a guy that shoots a higher FG% than FT%. He doesn't seem motivated this year either.

Or in college. Or ever.
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Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#440 » by TOO » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:30 pm

People here want Melo and CP3, but dont want an age appropriate double double machine C who compliments our core and is locked up long term? Weird.

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