Political Roundtable Part XII

[gtn130]

Funny how the Trumpers justified the Wikileaks/DNC stuff by saying that the end result of a sketchy, rogue organization leaking private conversations of American citizens was worth it because of the information we ended up getting out of those emails... *snip*
There's so much smoke you HAVE to investigate for a fire. Otherwise the whole house is gonna burn down.

I completely get this. I do favor transparency. I will say that there is one huge difference between the two leaks (so far).

Wikileaks published all the information after scrubbing absolutely necessary things, so the result was a publicly available record that anyone could browse, research, and form their own opinions about.

These intelligence community leaks are almost entirely opaque by comparison. Only select members of the media are getting the actual facts, and all the public is getting is the media interpretation of those facts. We don't get to read the contents of those phone calls and decide for ourselves.

I'm not OK with that. If they want to be noble whistleblowers, provide the information so that people can decide for themselves what is the right understanding of it.

People are still saying this? They didn't just post facts on the internet my dude. They sensationalized everything with the intent of damaging Hillary's campaign. They were even propagating Pizzagate.

Read on Twitter

Just posting facts on the internet, guys!!! The result was a publicly available record that anyone could browse! Transparency!

Seriously, y'all need to stop saying this stuff because you're 100% verifiably wrong.

[gtn130]

Should we show the links about unelected FBI officials in the NY office saying Clinton was going to be indicted? Worse, we had the head of the FBI come out 11 days before the election impugning her integrity for what we now know was completely baseless reasons.

It wasn't baseless at the time, and there was no additional impugning of her integrity. Comey merely said that a bunch more emails came in and we needed to look at them.

LOL please, Nate. You don't actually believe this. The result of re-opening the case was that it created more noise, more scandal, more negativity around Hillary. Stop playing dumb.

[dckingsfan]

Should we show the links about unelected FBI officials in the NY office saying Clinton was going to be indicted? Worse, we had the head of the FBI come out 11 days before the election impugning her integrity for what we now know was completely baseless reasons.

It wasn't baseless at the time, and there was no additional impugning of her integrity. Comey merely said that a bunch more emails came in and we needed to look at them.

LOL please, Nate. You don't actually believe this. The result of re-opening the case was that it created more noise, more scandal, more negativity around Hillary. Stop playing dumb.

Sadly, we are thinking that this is the reason Hillary lost. It wasn't. Her message didn't resonate with middle-America, she didn't campaign there...

[Wizardspride]

Should we show the links about unelected FBI officials in the NY office saying Clinton was going to be indicted? Worse, we had the head of the FBI come out 11 days before the election impugning her integrity for what we now know was completely baseless reasons.

It wasn't baseless at the time, and there was no additional impugning of her integrity. Comey merely said that a bunch more emails came in and we needed to look at them.

LOL please, Nate. You don't actually believe this. The result of re-opening the case was that it created more noise, more scandal, more negativity around Hillary. Stop playing dumb.

Yeah. It's all bull.

Comey didn't want to influence the election by releasing info on the Russian hacks and yet he had no problem announcing a new batch of emails were being looked at.

Heck, he even admitted he didn't know if they were connected to Clinton.


Why not just investigate them and if you find something out of order then make your announcement?

Since he didn't want to influence the election and all......

[closg00]

If you want to step into the world of Alternative Facts/reality, take a look at Dick Morris's analysis and the comments that follow. The Alternative Facts narrative is that only conspiracy that exist, is that of the evil Obama administration officials who sought to bring down Flynn...just bonkers, but Morris knows how to clown these people.
https://www.facebook.com/dickmorriscom/videos/10155041667199438/




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[Wizardspride]

It wasn't baseless at the time, and there was no additional impugning of her integrity. Comey merely said that a bunch more emails came in and we needed to look at them.

LOL please, Nate. You don't actually believe this. The result of re-opening the case was that it created more noise, more scandal, more negativity around Hillary. Stop playing dumb.

Sadly, we are thinking that this is the reason Hillary lost. It wasn't. Her message didn't resonate with middle-America, she didn't campaign there...

You can believe both might have been factors....

[nate33]

It wasn't baseless at the time, and there was no additional impugning of her integrity. Comey merely said that a bunch more emails came in and we needed to look at them.

LOL please, Nate. You don't actually believe this. The result of re-opening the case was that it created more noise, more scandal, more negativity around Hillary. Stop playing dumb.

Yeah. It's all bull.

Comey didn't want to influence the election by releasing info on the Russian hacks and yet he had no problem announcing a new batch of emails were being looked at.

Heck, he even admitted he didn't know if they were connected to Clinton.


Why not just investigate them and if you find something out of order then make your announcement?

Since he didn't want to influence the election and all......

I never said it didn't influence the election. I was just disagreeing with sfam that Comey was somehow lying or otherwise impugning her integrity.

[gtn130]

It wasn't baseless at the time, and there was no additional impugning of her integrity. Comey merely said that a bunch more emails came in and we needed to look at them.

LOL please, Nate. You don't actually believe this. The result of re-opening the case was that it created more noise, more scandal, more negativity around Hillary. Stop playing dumb.

Sadly, we are thinking that this is the reason Hillary lost. It wasn't. Her message didn't resonate with middle-America, she didn't campaign there...

lol nope. Her average voter was lower income than Trump's, and she received ~3 million more votes than he did. The narrative that she lost because of her inability to resonate with the Real Rural Americans is incorrect.

When FBI Director James Comey told Congress on Oct. 28 that he was reviewing additional emails pertinent to the case of Hillary Clinton’s email server, Clinton had an 81 percent chance of winning the election according to our polls-only forecast. Today, her chances are 65 percent according to the same forecast. The change corresponds with Clinton’s drop in the national popular-vote lead: from a 5.7-percentage-point lead in our estimate on Oct. 28 to a 2.9-point lead now — so a swing of about 3 points against her.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-much-did-comey-hurt-clintons-chances/

That's from Nov 6. The impact of re-opening the email case was massive.

She lost because she was a weak institutionalist candidate who was surrounded by scandal - a lot of which was manufactured. If you subtract the manufactured scandal, she wins. If she was a better candidate, she also would have won. Pinning everything on the fact that she wasn't a credibly populist candidate is wrong and requires ignoring basically every other variable in the election.

[FAH1223]

This is a good overview, but I would dispute Assad's support. He was well on his way out, and losing most of his territory until Russia intervened. Bottom line though, you had a relatively modern country, with most citizens well educated and living fine with others of different backgrounds. Now you have a complete nightmarish situation, which most agree Assad bears the majority of the blame, but so too do Russia, Obama, Iran, Turkey and the rest of the Middle east.

I don't have polls or a guide. But the minority groups have supported the government intensely. Assad is still standing because the Sunni business class in Damascus and Aleppo still back him... if they didn't, he'd have been gone long ago.. and most Syrians do not want the alternative. Aleppo's population didn't back the rebel groups in 2012 and the western part of the city remained the government stronghold.

I don't think Assad is on his way out immediately. Russia is pressing with the diplomatic talks in Kazakhstan. Iran is participating but wants to win militarily. The Syrian government has a Ministry of Reconciliation which is granting amnesty to fighters after areas are beseiged and busing them to Idlib with their arms or disarming them and letting them stay or go to Damascus, Latakia, Tartus, Aleppo, etc.

Turkey has backed off on the "Assad must go" mantra.

I blame the rise in sectarianism not only on Assad releasing the psychos from the prisons but Saudi/Qatar financed groups and media by fostering Shia/Sunni tension which as you said is foreign to Syria's culture and history. It is a mainly Sunni Muslim country but has had harmony amongst all its people despite an authoritarian regime of the Assad family.

[gtn130]

Also, Trump won the swing states largely because of immigration and terrorism - not the economy.







So, by "resonating with the Real Rural Americans" we're talking about pandering to their xenophobia - not their anxieties over the economy.

[bealwithit]

I think the American people should be able to see Trump's tax returns ASAP.

[Wizardspride]

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[dckingsfan]

LOL please, Nate. You don't actually believe this. The result of re-opening the case was that it created more noise, more scandal, more negativity around Hillary. Stop playing dumb.

Sadly, we are thinking that this is the reason Hillary lost. It wasn't. Her message didn't resonate with middle-America, she didn't campaign there...

lol nope. Her average voter was lower income than Trump's, and she received ~3 million more votes than he did. The narrative that she lost because of her inability to resonate with the Real Rural Americans is incorrect.

We get to agree to disagree on this one Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.

[dckingsfan]

Also, Trump won the swing states largely because of immigration and terrorism - not the economy.

So, by "resonating with the Real Rural Americans" we're talking about pandering to their xenophobia - not their anxieties over the economy.

I get it - you think they aren't bright people - deplorables if you will.

[gtn130]

Also, Trump won the swing states largely because of immigration and terrorism - not the economy.

So, by "resonating with the Real Rural Americans" we're talking about pandering to their xenophobia - not their anxieties over the economy.

I get it - you think they aren't bright people - deplorables if you will.

Correct, but they're deplorable because of how hateful they are - not because they're stupid necessarily.

[dckingsfan]

Hmmm, 11 to 10 vs the 3 to 1 against... should have placed my bet then

https://www.inverse.com/article/26292-donald-trump-impeachment-odds

[gtn130]

Sadly, we are thinking that this is the reason Hillary lost. It wasn't. Her message didn't resonate with middle-America, she didn't campaign there...

lol nope. Her average voter was lower income than Trump's, and she received ~3 million more votes than he did. The narrative that she lost because of her inability to resonate with the Real Rural Americans is incorrect.

We get to agree to disagree on this one Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.

I mean, this completely ignores everything I said in the post above.

[DCZards]

Hey Nate, I think there's one thing here that I think we all can agree upon and that is Flynn is the fall guy here...or they hope it stops with Flynn. Flynn was acting on-behalf of Trump. What were his instructions? Other Trump campaign officials were purportedly in-touch with Russian intelligence throughout the campaign. This is bad, really bad.

I don't think it will. I think there is an entire bureaucracy that feels threatened. Lots of Trump's cabinet picks believe in smaller government and question even having certain cabinet level positions.

This is going to be fascinating to watch unfold. I am betting on the bureaucracy taking down the President.

I am betting on the American people taking down the President. Have you seen his poll numbers lately? I believe they're only going to get worse.

[nate33]

Hey Nate, I think there's one thing here that I think we all can agree upon and that is Flynn is the fall guy here...or they hope it stops with Flynn. Flynn was acting on-behalf of Trump. What were his instructions? Other Trump campaign officials were purportedly in-touch with Russian intelligence throughout the campaign. This is bad, really bad.

I don't think it will. I think there is an entire bureaucracy that feels threatened. Lots of Trump's cabinet picks believe in smaller government and question even having certain cabinet level positions.

This is going to be fascinating to watch unfold. I am betting on the bureaucracy taking down the President.

I am betting on the American people taking down the President. Have you seen his poll numbers lately? I believe they're only going to get worse.

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows that 53% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance. Forty-seven percent (47%) disapprove.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_feb15

No apparent dip since the Flynn resignation:

[gtn130]

I don't think it will. I think there is an entire bureaucracy that feels threatened. Lots of Trump's cabinet picks believe in smaller government and question even having certain cabinet level positions.

This is going to be fascinating to watch unfold. I am betting on the bureaucracy taking down the President.

I am betting on the American people taking down the President. Have you seen his poll numbers lately? I believe they're only going to get worse.

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows that 53% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance. Forty-seven percent (47%) disapprove.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_feb15

Oh, back to Rasmussen polls already.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/pollster-ratings/