Official 2017 Draft Thread - Something Positive To Look Forward To

gom · Post #1901 » by **gom** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:10 pm

Feel_the_Heat15 wrote:
Wiltside wrote:I'd be very surprised if Ball slipped to 6 personally.

It's hard to expect the Suns to draft a guard and for Philly to draft 2 guards with Simmons being their future facilitator and one of the guards not being seen as having a big scoring role in the NBA.

You always take BPA.

Bishop45 wrote:Ball seems like a Suns guy but wouldn't be surprised to see him a Magic

If that happens we can pick him up off the scrap heap in two years for pennies on the dollar.

Feel_the_Heat15 · Post #1902 » by **Feel_the_Heat15** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:01 pm

gom wrote:
Feel_the_Heat15 wrote:
Wiltside wrote:I'd be very surprised if Ball slipped to 6 personally.

It's hard to expect the Suns to draft a guard and for Philly to draft 2 guards with Simmons being their future facilitator and one of the guards not being seen as having a big scoring role in the NBA.

You always take BPA.

Bishop45 wrote:Ball seems like a Suns guy but wouldn't be surprised to see him a Magic

If that happens we can pick him up off the scrap heap in two years for pennies on the dollar.

How are you going to give minutes to Knight, Bledsoe, Booker and Ball or Smith? They're all under 27 so it's not like they can't be part of a future core. Not only that, but Phoenix has already done the 3 guard thing and that didn't work out very well for them so having 4 guards you got to give minutes to on the roster could cause off-court issues. Unless the Suns plan on trading one of their guards which I could definitely see happening I don't see them drafting another guard. Would just cause too many roster issues such as hindering the progress of Booker and their pick. If the Suns do draft a guard I expect a draft night trade or one made before the season starts. If they do draft a guard and make no trades to thin their back-court then I don't know what their FO is doing.

In the event that the Suns select Ball I'd have the Timberwolves drafting Isaac.

gom · Post #1903 » by **gom** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:04 pm

Feel_the_Heat15 wrote:
gom wrote:
Feel_the_Heat15 wrote:
It's hard to expect the Suns to draft a guard and for Philly to draft 2 guards with Simmons being their future facilitator and one of the guards not being seen as having a big scoring role in the NBA.

You always take BPA.

Bishop45 wrote:Ball seems like a Suns guy but wouldn't be surprised to see him a Magic

If that happens we can pick him up off the scrap heap in two years for pennies on the dollar.

How are you going to give minutes to Knight, Bledsoe, Booker and Ball or Smith? They're all under 27 so it's not like they can't be part of a future core. Not only that, but Phoenix has already done the 3 guard thing and that didn't work out very well for them so having 4 guards you got to give minutes to on the roster could cause off-court issues. Unless the Suns plan on trading one of their guards which I could definitely see happening I don't see them drafting another guard. Would just cause too many roster issues such as hindering the progress of Booker and their pick. If the Suns do draft a guard I expect a draft night trade or one made before the season starts. If they do draft a guard and make no trades to thin their back-court then I don't know what their FO is doing.

In the event that the Suns select Ball I'd have the Timberwolves drafting Isaac.

Drafting for fit doesn't work out most of the time. Rosters change. Players get injured. The player that you pass up becomes all-nba. Take the best player and work them into your team. If you want to do a trade later on, you have a better asset.

Even for fit, though, Isaac isn't a great choice for Phoenix. They already have Chriss and Bender for the PF position and TJ Warren for small forward. Isaac is at least 2 years away (maybe even 3). He is raw and not very strong (relatively speaking.)

Bishop45 · Post #1904 » by **Bishop45** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:06 pm

Feel_the_Heat15 wrote:
gom wrote:
Feel_the_Heat15 wrote:
It's hard to expect the Suns to draft a guard and for Philly to draft 2 guards with Simmons being their future facilitator and one of the guards not being seen as having a big scoring role in the NBA.

You always take BPA.

Bishop45 wrote:Ball seems like a Suns guy but wouldn't be surprised to see him a Magic

If that happens we can pick him up off the scrap heap in two years for pennies on the dollar.

How are you going to give minutes to Knight, Bledsoe, Booker and Ball or Smith? They're all under 27 so it's not like they can't be part of a future core. Not only that, but Phoenix has already done the 3 guard thing and that didn't work out very well for them so having 4 guards you got to give minutes to on the roster could cause off-court issues. Unless the Suns plan on trading one of their guards which I could definitely see happening I don't see them drafting another guard. Would just cause too many roster issues such as hindering the progress of Booker and their pick. If the Suns do draft a guard I expect a draft night trade or one made before the season starts. If they do draft a guard and make no trades to thin their back-court then I don't know what their FO is doing.

In the event that the Suns select Ball I'd have the Timberwolves drafting Isaac.

They've been trying to sell on Knight for a while now, wouldn't be surprised if it were him and Bledsoe. Ball/Smith seem like their kind of pick

Feel_the_Heat15 · Post #1905 » by **Feel_the_Heat15** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:59 pm

gom wrote:
Feel_the_Heat15 wrote:
gom wrote:
You always take BPA.

If that happens we can pick him up off the scrap heap in two years for pennies on the dollar.

How are you going to give minutes to Knight, Bledsoe, Booker and Ball or Smith? They're all under 27 so it's not like they can't be part of a future core. Not only that, but Phoenix has already done the 3 guard thing and that didn't work out very well for them so having 4 guards you got to give minutes to on the roster could cause off-court issues. Unless the Suns plan on trading one of their guards which I could definitely see happening I don't see them drafting another guard. Would just cause too many roster issues such as hindering the progress of Booker and their pick. If the Suns do draft a guard I expect a draft night trade or one made before the season starts. If they do draft a guard and make no trades to thin their back-court then I don't know what their FO is doing.

In the event that the Suns select Ball I'd have the Timberwolves drafting Isaac.

Drafting for fit doesn't work out most of the time. Rosters change. Players get injured. The player that you pass up becomes all-nba. Take the best player and work them into your team. If you want to do a trade later on, you have a better asset.

Even for fit, though, Isaac isn't a great choice for Phoenix. They already have Chriss and Bender for the PF position and TJ Warren for small forward. Isaac is at least 2 years away (maybe even 3). He is raw and not very strong (relatively speaking.)

This is an extreme case of drafting based on BPA. We're not talking about drafting a player who plays a certain position that's already being played by an above average player but two. For a rookie to get better they need ample playing time and that's something the Suns can't provide without trading away one of their back-court pieces. I can't remember a team that's been successful in a similar situation but the 76ers are a great example of when drafting for BPA goes wrong(drafting Okafor over Porzingis and now looking to trade Okafor due to poor fit). You know, this is funny because until Bledsoe was traded by the Clippers to the Suns and getting consistent minutes no one knew how good he really was. A case of a young player not being given enough minutes to showcase his talents, something that could happen to whichever guard the Suns decide to draft(if they do a draft guard). BPA is not always the right answer. Sounds nice to say "Always draft based on BPA" but it's not always the best way to make a decision.

Also I see Issac more as a SF than as a PF.

RexBoyWonder · Post #1906 » by **RexBoyWonder** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:40 pm

I see this draft having 3 really high tiers (really high = Allstar potential) :

Tier 1 :

Markelle Fultz

Tier 2 :

Lonzo Ball
Josh Jackson
Dennis Smith

Tier 3 :

Jayson Tatum
Jonathan Isaac

I think we played ourselves out of the top 4 range with the winning streak, but we can still land a very high upside player in 5-6 spots.

IMO the big drop off starts at 7, so a top 6 pick should really be our goal and could be a huge asset.

Feel_the_Heat15 · Post #1907 » by **Feel_the_Heat15** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:50 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:I see this draft having 3 really high tiers (really high = Allstar potential) :

Tier 1 :

Markelle Fultz

Tier 2 :

Lonzo Ball
Josh Jackson
Dennis Smith

Tier 3 :

Jayson Tatum
Jonathan Isaac

I think we played ourselves out of the top 4 range with the winning streak, but we can still land a very high upside player in 5-6 spots.

IMO the big drop off starts at 7, so a top 6 pick should really be our goal and could be a huge asset.

We're not bottom 6 bad. I don't think this team is ready for a full rebuild, we got too many good players.

Cmon_Son-_- · Post #1908 » by **Cmon_Son-_-** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:43 pm

Since we're probably not getting any of the top 6 guys I'm jumping on the Malik Monk train.

Post #1909 » by **Wiltside** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:49 pm

Feel_the_Heat15 wrote:
gom wrote:
Feel_the_Heat15 wrote:
It's hard to expect the Suns to draft a guard and for Philly to draft 2 guards with Simmons being their future facilitator and one of the guards not being seen as having a big scoring role in the NBA.

You always take BPA.

Bishop45 wrote:Ball seems like a Suns guy but wouldn't be surprised to see him a Magic

If that happens we can pick him up off the scrap heap in two years for pennies on the dollar.

How are you going to give minutes to Knight, Bledsoe, Booker and Ball or Smith? They're all under 27 so it's not like they can't be part of a future core. Not only that, but Phoenix has already done the 3 guard thing and that didn't work out very well for them so having 4 guards you got to give minutes to on the roster could cause off-court issues. Unless the Suns plan on trading one of their guards which I could definitely see happening I don't see them drafting another guard. Would just cause too many roster issues such as hindering the progress of Booker and their pick. If the Suns do draft a guard I expect a draft night trade or one made before the season starts. If they do draft a guard and make no trades to thin their back-court then I don't know what their FO is doing.

In the event that the Suns select Ball I'd have the Timberwolves drafting Isaac.

The Suns are 17-39 with the 2nd worst record in the league. I think they need to take the best talent on the board, and that probably is Lonzo Ball at this stage. Knight is not an issue - they'll sell low on him much like Hannigan just did on Ibaka.

I'm not sold on them wanting Bledsoe longer term, but Ball can play as a 3rd guard off the bench in the early going - and the Suns would roll out Bled/Ball/Booker (BBB) lineups on teams. There you have a player who is quality at finishing in the paint (Bled), a deep three point threat (Ball) and a mid range assassin (Book).

Down the track, a Ball and Booker backcourt would be pretty lethal. Both 6'6" and a match up problem.

Despite Bledsoe being a very good player, he's not a brilliant point guard or creative passer the way someone like Ball is. Ball could transform that team, particularly with a guy like Chriss as his lob buddy.

Dr_Heat · Post #1910 » by **Dr_Heat** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:02 pm

One of those could still happen. Crazy chit has happened before in the NBA. You never know if we trade for a top pick or start tanking the rest of this season.

Bishop45 · Post #1911 » by **Bishop45** » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:16 pm

Yatum, Horton went off from deep. Probably be better for his draft stock for him to keep shooting with volume than all the iso. Hear Giles had a productive game too

Watch on YouTube

Something about him's just iffy

Watch on YouTube

Patton watch, that jst started the other day:

Impressive 7 footr chit

Read on Twitter

Y'all see the twitch on the post move righte, copy kat.

Read on Twitter

Seen't it

Read on Twitter

Pic has no context whatsoever, found it dumpster diving

Read on Twitter

RexBoyWonder · Post #1912 » by **RexBoyWonder** » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:42 pm

Dr_Heat wrote:[img]

One of those could still happen. Crazy chit has happened before in the NBA. You never know if we trade for a top pick or start tanking the rest of this season.

I'm not sure we want to build around a Zombie. They're hard to coach.

Mos_Heat · Post #1913 » by **Mos_Heat** » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:58 pm

You like Tatum, Bish? To me, he looks like a better version of Harris. Still good, but nothing special

Bishop45 · Post #1914 » by **Bishop45** » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:17 pm

Mos_Heat wrote:You like Tatum, Bish? To me, he looks like a better version of Harris. Still good, but nothing special

Oh si si I am intrigued. Harris alone would be good enough for me, prospects with good footwork and decent shooting stroke have enough upside to reach on from time to time (reaching wouldn't be the case)

Feel_the_Heat15 · Post #1915 » by **Feel_the_Heat15** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:50 pm

If available:
1.Williams
2.Swanigan

Both would be nice next to Hassan.

J-House · Post #1916 » by **J-House** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:37 pm

Maybe Fultz will drop 14 spots? :noway:

Post #1917 » by **heat4life** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:51 pm

If we keep winning, this might a gamble we might have to take outside the lottery...

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/dukes-harry-giles-is-living-in-the-shadow-of-his-former-self-but-he-sees-light/

Feel_the_Heat15 · Post #1918 » by **Feel_the_Heat15** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:48 pm

heat4life wrote:If we keep winning, this might a gamble we might have to take outside the lottery...

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/dukes-harry-giles-is-living-in-the-shadow-of-his-former-self-but-he-sees-light/

Jabari Parker.

Bishop45 · Post #1919 » by **Bishop45** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:13 pm

heat4life wrote:If we keep winning, this might a gamble we might have to take outside the lottery...

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/dukes-harry-giles-is-living-in-the-shadow-of-his-former-self-but-he-sees-light/

I've chitted on him and his stock but he looks really sound at times, there's just too many prospects to look at in the first round rn

Hopefully he improves as the year goes on

Bishop45 · Post #1920 » by **Bishop45** » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:53 pm

Bishop45 wrote:
Wiltside wrote:OK guys, let's assume that our pick falls at number 7 in this draft for arguments sake.

Who you got?

Whoever falls from the want list, second interim order;

Bishop45 wrote: want list, not directly in bpa; P

1.Fultz
2.Tatum Jackson (He's the better prospect, not going to overthink offensive potential prowess)
3.Ntilikina (One of the highest floors and ceilings out of all potential lotto picks outside of Jackson, Fults and maybe Smith)
4.Jackson Smith
5.Smith Fox
6.Ball Tatum (Fine with Ball or Tatum here but I value wings more and believe in Tatum's offense whole lot more)
7.Monk (idc idc idc) Ball
8.Isaac
9.Giles (Needs to show something first) Monk
10. Fox Markkenan
11.Hartenstein

Updated Want list

Fultz (Umm duh)
JJ (Com to Souf beech bb)
Ntilikina (I'm waiting)
Smith (Really critical but he's stil very goos)
5.Tatum (My Wing bias cans Fox here)
6. Fox (Slightly a reach but I put in a flyer)
7. Ball
8. Patton (Literally looks like a more skilled Deandre Jordan with how he runs the floor, raw but lotto talent)
9. Swanigan
10. Isaac (Not a huge fan but tools are there)
11. Monk (Interchangable with Isaac but I'll keep him here
12. Markennen
13. Giles (Based disproportionately on play rather than skillset, needs to do enough to fool me)
14. Hartenstein