Political Roundtable Part XII

[gtn130]

This ______ non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made by ______.

You could fill those blanks with literally ANYTHING and it would make just as much sense as that Trump tweet.

[Kanyewest]

Any updates on Pizza Gate?

Here you go boss

Watch on YouTube

#Pizzagate is REAL...


Are you taking your Super Male Vitality supplements?

This one attempt to debunk pizzagate in 34 minute.

Watch on YouTube

[Doug_Blew]

Any updates on Pizza Gate?

Here you go boss

Watch on YouTube

#Pizzagate is REAL...


Are you taking your Super Male Vitality supplements?

Thanks AFM! I didn't know that Obama was involved in it as well. Alex Jones is interesting to listen to.

[nate33]

Another hate crime hoax. Note the misleading headline. It wasn't "racially charged". It was a hoax meant to be perceived as racially charged.

Charges filed in connection to racially charged graffiti on Sylvania Twp. home

SYLVANIA TWP., Oh. (WNWO) — Authorities say charges have been filed in connection to a graffiti incident on the garage door of an Arab family in Lucas County. Sylvania Township police say Osama Nazzal, 28, of Toledo, was charged with criminal damaging in connection to the incident. On Jan. 10, the Sylvania Twp. home of Souheir Eltatawi had been spray-painted with a swastika and derogatory phrase that read, "Expletive Arabs."

http://nbc24.com/news/local/arrest-made-in-connection-to-racially-charged-graffiti-on-sylvania-twp-home

[Doug_Blew]

wrong thread

[nate33]

Two explosive reports on Trump and Russia. Zero on-the-record sources.
by Callum Borchers of the Washington Post

But anonymity invariably promotes skepticism about sources' motives. The Times wrote that "all of the current and former officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because the continuing investigation is classified." That makes sense; it also makes sense to wonder whether these officials have political agendas and to consider what they might not be revealing.

Though the Times and CNN relied exclusively on unnamed sources, both loaded up their reports with caveats.

From the Times:

• The intelligence agencies then sought to learn whether the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russians on the hacking or other efforts to influence the election. The officials interviewed in recent weeks said that, so far, they had seen no evidence of such cooperation.
• It is not unusual for American businessmen to come in contact with foreign intelligence officials, sometimes unwittingly, in countries like Russia and Ukraine, where the spy services are deeply embedded in society.
• It is also unclear whether the conversations had anything to do with Mr. Trump himself.

From CNN:

• Officials emphasized that communications between campaign staff and representatives of foreign governments are not unusual.
• Investigators have not reached a judgment on the intent of those conversations.
• These officials cautioned the Russians could have been exaggerating their access.
• The communications were gathered as part of routine US intelligence collection and not because people close to Trump were being targeted.

The bottom line is there is no proof that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to influence the presidential election.

https://archive.fo/VW7k0#selection-4021.0-4027.14

[Wizardspride]

You could be right Nate.

This alleged Russian/Trump connection could be all BS.

But with that being said, I'm not sure sources staying anonymous means much.

Using that logic we'd probably have to discount quite a bit of news.

[FAH1223]

Assad isn't on his way out at all now. He absolutely was prior to the Russians joined in propping him up. I attended numerous roundtables on this - there really wasn't much support for Assad other than from his Alawite base. His brutal and repressive response turned public sentiment away from him. Unfortunately there was never a united anything in the way of resistance. And its sort of impossible to discuss Syria without discussing Iraq and the ISIS incursion.

My understanding is most minorities and tribes have been gauging their own safety almost continually and changing course based on this. In studying armed actor dispersion, you find very little in the way of ideology driving the changing allegiances. As Assad has been doing better, its not surprising his support increases.

Bottom line though, Russia changed the dynamic completely. They haven't been fighting terrorists, they've been propping up chemical weapons wielding Assad.

I don't know anyone who thinks there is a real chance of the civil war actually ending any time in the next decade.

I think the bolded is exaggerated by many of us here in the West. His Alawi base isn't the sole reason he stayed in power. The Sunni business class was still supporting the government for the protection of their own assets. Damascus and Aleppo are majority Sunni cities. Latakia is an Alawi majority area.

As far as the minority groups, you have a point. The eb and flows of the crisis have ranged from the mass protests in 2011 to the defections in the army and loss of territory to the rebound we've seen in the last 15 months which changes perceptions.

But man, just about every Syrian Christian I come across in person or online is a staunch supporter of Assad. They detest the rebel groups especially the Al-Qaeda linked Jabhat Fateh Al-Sham which became the best fighting force against the regime amongst others like Ahrah Al-Sham.

With Russia, they have been helping the regime, no doubt. But around 20% of their airstrikes have been in the East where Palmyra and Deir Ezzor are flashpoints for the Syrian army's fight against ISIS.

The Al-Qaeda linked groups in Aleppo and Idlib are by all accounts... terrorist groups even if the groups we supported and funded are also aligned with them. This is why John Kerry had to come up with the idea of separating moderates from the extremists which sounds easy but tough since one thing unites them... the regime. The talks in Kazakhstan have had some of these groups go to Astana, engage with Russia/Iran/Turkey and the Syrian government. But the groups who have gone there have had a backlash which is why we're seeing clashes in Idlib.

Also, there was also proof the rebel groups used chemical weapons as well. No one has a monopoly of the cruelty in this war.

[sfam]

Well, I would put it a different way. If she had run even a slightly better campaign without the "deplorables" comment, she would have won. She was the wrong candidate without a resonating message.

But this isn't just happening in the presidential elections. House Republicans won popular vote by over 3 million votes. And you can look at what is happening to the governorships.

If Ds are going to with the presidency, they need candidates like the Bill Clinton (its the economy stupid) and Obama (hope & change) to take some of those red states.

She lost by a total of 70,000 votes in three states. To think that the daily Russian hacks AND the Comey letter didn't influence the outcome is to completely stick your head in the sand.

Thanks for the kind words sfam. Note how I put what I said.

Well, I would put it a different way. If she had run even a slightly better campaign without the "deplorables" comment, she would have won. She was the wrong candidate without a resonating message.

Always good to reply in context

Agreed. For clarity, the "stick your head in the sand" wasn't directed at you - merely anyone who believes those actions didn't impact the outcome - they clearly did, regardless the quality of candidates.

[sfam]

Two explosive reports on Trump and Russia. Zero on-the-record sources.
by Callum Borchers of the Washington Post

But anonymity invariably promotes skepticism about sources' motives. The Times wrote that "all of the current and former officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because the continuing investigation is classified." That makes sense; it also makes sense to wonder whether these officials have political agendas and to consider what they might not be revealing.

Though the Times and CNN relied exclusively on unnamed sources, both loaded up their reports with caveats.

From the Times:

• The intelligence agencies then sought to learn whether the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russians on the hacking or other efforts to influence the election. The officials interviewed in recent weeks said that, so far, they had seen no evidence of such cooperation.
• It is not unusual for American businessmen to come in contact with foreign intelligence officials, sometimes unwittingly, in countries like Russia and Ukraine, where the spy services are deeply embedded in society.
• It is also unclear whether the conversations had anything to do with Mr. Trump himself.

From CNN:

• Officials emphasized that communications between campaign staff and representatives of foreign governments are not unusual.
• Investigators have not reached a judgment on the intent of those conversations.
• These officials cautioned the Russians could have been exaggerating their access.
• The communications were gathered as part of routine US intelligence collection and not because people close to Trump were being targeted.

The bottom line is there is no proof that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to influence the presidential election.

https://archive.fo/VW7k0#selection-4021.0-4027.14

The fact that these were collected by routine intelligence collection is NOT a good sign. This is in fact a really bad sign. This implies they were talking to actual Russian intelligence officials or people of interest to the point that their communications are being watched.

There is really nothing positive about this report. Of course the sources are off the record.

The logical end result is an actual investigation. It looks like enough Republicans are starting to call for this.

[DCZards]

Are Trump supporters not concerned that Trump says we should not trust the Media, the Intelligence Agency nor any Judge that goes against him?

Why should we trust him over these other outlets when he does not provide evidence? His first and pretty much only defense is to put down the other side. It's the same tactics that a bad high school student would use.

It's scary how easily many Americans, particularly hard-core Trump supporters, have bought into the Trump narrative that all media, with the possible exemption of Fox News, is corrupt and/or fake. It worries me deeply when people take the word of the govt. and/or a President, who apparently believes he was elected emperor, over that of the free press...as flawed as the press may be.

[sfam]

Assad isn't on his way out at all now. He absolutely was prior to the Russians joined in propping him up. I attended numerous roundtables on this - there really wasn't much support for Assad other than from his Alawite base. His brutal and repressive response turned public sentiment away from him. Unfortunately there was never a united anything in the way of resistance. And its sort of impossible to discuss Syria without discussing Iraq and the ISIS incursion.

My understanding is most minorities and tribes have been gauging their own safety almost continually and changing course based on this. In studying armed actor dispersion, you find very little in the way of ideology driving the changing allegiances. As Assad has been doing better, its not surprising his support increases.

Bottom line though, Russia changed the dynamic completely. They haven't been fighting terrorists, they've been propping up chemical weapons wielding Assad.

I don't know anyone who thinks there is a real chance of the civil war actually ending any time in the next decade.

I think the bolded is exaggerated by many of us here in the West. His Alawi base isn't the sole reason he stayed in power. The Sunni business class was still supporting the government for the protection of their own assets. Damascus and Aleppo are majority Sunni cities. Latakia is an Alawi majority area.

As far as the minority groups, you have a point. The eb and flows of the crisis have ranged from the mass protests in 2011 to the defections in the army and loss of territory to the rebound we've seen in the last 15 months which changes perceptions.

But man, just about every Syrian Christian I come across in person or online is a staunch supporter of Assad. They detest the rebel groups especially the Al-Qaeda linked Jabhat Fateh Al-Sham which became the best fighting force against the regime amongst others like Ahrah Al-Sham.

With Russia, they have been helping the regime, no doubt. But around 20% of their airstrikes have been in the East where Palmyra and Deir Ezzor are flashpoints for the Syrian army's fight against ISIS.

The Al-Qaeda linked groups in Aleppo and Idlib are by all accounts... terrorist groups even if the groups we supported and funded are also aligned with them. This is why John Kerry had to come up with the idea of separating moderates from the extremists which sounds easy but tough since one thing unites them... the regime. The talks in Kazakhstan have had some of these groups go to Astana, engage with Russia/Iran/Turkey and the Syrian government. But the groups who have gone there have had a backlash which is why we're seeing clashes in Idlib.

Also, there was also proof the rebel groups used chemical weapons as well. No one has a monopoly of the cruelty in this war.

Its definitely a horrific situation with lots of shades of gray and only few truly black ones (Assad, Salafi Jihadist organizations) and no real good guys. Most all my experience comes from those working on diplomacy or peacebuilding issues. I honestly have yet to come across any Syrian in that context, Christian or otherwise (I've met many), who has anything positive at all to say about Assad. But again, my contacts from Syria are pretty strongly slanted toward peacebuilding.

The other really sad thing regarding Syria - early on in the Arab spring, there was a really vibrant nonviolent civil resistance movement advocating regime change. The actions of this movement had led to defections in military folks from the Assad regime (a key indicator of success for nonviolent conflict), and perceptual changes in the movement in a positive direction and of he Assad regime in a negative direction. Unfortunately a group splintered off to respond in kind to Assad's violence, with violent counter-reactions, which has ultimately led to the result we've seen. Only months later after they took a violent course did they really learn the positive impact of the nonviolent civil resistance movement, but at that point it was too late.

[sfam]

Any updates on Pizza Gate?

Here you go boss

Watch on YouTube

#Pizzagate is REAL...


Are you taking your Super Male Vitality supplements?

Thanks AFM! I didn't know that Obama was involved in it as well. Alex Jones is interesting to listen to.

This can't be real. Is this current? Like Pizza gate is still a thing??? You would think the fact that the Pizza place being a single floored building would put a crimp in the child porn ring in the basement, but I guess facts can evolve over time.

[nate33]

Are Trump supporters not concerned that Trump says we should not trust the Media, the Intelligence Agency nor any Judge that goes against him?

Why should we trust him over these other outlets when he does not provide evidence? His first and pretty much only defense is to put down the other side. It's the same tactics that a bad high school student would use.

It's scary how easily many Americans, particularly hard-core Trump supporters, have bought into the Trump narrative that all media, with the possible exemption of Fox News, is corrupt and/or fake. It worries me deeply when people take the word of the govt. and/or a President, who apparently believes he was elected emperor, over that of the free press...as flawed as the press may be.

it's the fault of the media, not Trump. Their obvious bias has gotten so over the top during the election that they completely undermined any credibility they have left. I view every story from the media as a hit piece. That doesn't mean it's a lie, but it does mean that they are likely to emphasize anti-Trump points and downplay pro-Trump points.

There is no unbiased media. None. Everyone has an agenda. Years ago, the conservative side admitted their agenda and the liberals pretended to be unbiased. Nobody believes that anymore, at least no moderate or conservative does. The New York Times is absolutely no different from National Review, except for they're on the left instead of the right.

[montestewart]

Two explosive reports on Trump and Russia. Zero on-the-record sources.
by Callum Borchers of the Washington Post

But anonymity invariably promotes skepticism about sources' motives. The Times wrote that "all of the current and former officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because the continuing investigation is classified." That makes sense; it also makes sense to wonder whether these officials have political agendas and to consider what they might not be revealing.

Though the Times and CNN relied exclusively on unnamed sources, both loaded up their reports with caveats.

From the Times:

• The intelligence agencies then sought to learn whether the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russians on the hacking or other efforts to influence the election. The officials interviewed in recent weeks said that, so far, they had seen no evidence of such cooperation.
• It is not unusual for American businessmen to come in contact with foreign intelligence officials, sometimes unwittingly, in countries like Russia and Ukraine, where the spy services are deeply embedded in society.
• It is also unclear whether the conversations had anything to do with Mr. Trump himself.

From CNN:

• Officials emphasized that communications between campaign staff and representatives of foreign governments are not unusual.
• Investigators have not reached a judgment on the intent of those conversations.
• These officials cautioned the Russians could have been exaggerating their access.
• The communications were gathered as part of routine US intelligence collection and not because people close to Trump were being targeted.

The bottom line is there is no proof that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to influence the presidential election.

https://archive.fo/VW7k0#selection-4021.0-4027.14

A story in the Washington Post that relies exclusively on New York Times and CNN sources? More MSM LIES! If Tartbite isn't reporting, I'm not listening.

[sfam]

Are Trump supporters not concerned that Trump says we should not trust the Media, the Intelligence Agency nor any Judge that goes against him?

Why should we trust him over these other outlets when he does not provide evidence? His first and pretty much only defense is to put down the other side. It's the same tactics that a bad high school student would use.

It's scary how easily many Americans, particularly hard-core Trump supporters, have bought into the Trump narrative that all media, with the possible exemption of Fox News, is corrupt and/or fake. It worries me deeply when people take the word of the govt. and/or a President, who apparently believes he was elected emperor, over that of the free press...as flawed as the press may be.

it's the fault of the media, not Trump. Their obvious bias has gotten so over the top during the election that they completely undermined any credibility they have left. I view every story from the media as a hit piece. That doesn't mean it's a lie, but it does mean that they are likely to emphasize anti-Trump points and downplay pro-Trump points.

There is no unbiased media. None. Everyone has an agenda. Years ago, the conservative side admitted their agenda and the liberals pretended to be unbiased. Nobody believes that anymore, at least no moderate or conservative does. The New York Times is absolutely no different from National Review, except for they're on the left instead of the right.

Well, there's the obvious difference that the National Review only does commentary. The NY Times actually does both. They do commentary, AND actual factual reporting by journalists with degrees and editors and rules of conduct. Many of the outlets you cite only do commentary/opinion, but unlike the National review, just has worse columnists.

EDIT: And the change in tone and content in the past year is CLEARLY the direct fault of Trump. Everyone in the Republican contest for President would agree with that, along with virtually all researchers studying this. The man has changed the way news is reported. He and his staff pathologically lies overtly. This is new, whether you realize it or not. News reporting has changed as a consequence. Jay Rosen has done the best analysis on this.

[montestewart]

Here you go boss

Watch on YouTube

#Pizzagate is REAL...


Are you taking your Super Male Vitality supplements?

Thanks AFM! I didn't know that Obama was involved in it as well. Alex Jones is interesting to listen to.

This can't be real. Is this current? Like Pizza gate is still a thing??? You would think the fact that the Pizza place being a single floored building would put a crimp in the child porn ring in the basement, but I guess facts can evolve over time.

I was in there myself once to investigate, and they were all speaking in code: pepperoni, sausage, pesto (Pesto? Could they be any more blatant?), white pizza, extra cheese, and other obvious pedophile slang. The way the guy behind the counter said Thin crust? was chilling. A very creepy experience, but great pizza.

[closg00]

Any updates on Pizza Gate?

Here you go boss

Watch on YouTube

#Pizzagate is REAL...


Are you taking your Super Male Vitality supplements?

This one attempt to debunk pizzagate in 34 minute.

Watch on YouTube

Attempt to debunk? I stopped about half-way through, dude had successfully debunked many of the key points. Pizzagate is/was perfect for the gullible fact-free crowd that laps-up Alex Jones. Thx for posting.

[AFM]

Any updates on Pizza Gate?

Here you go boss

Watch on YouTube

#Pizzagate is REAL...


Are you taking your Super Male Vitality supplements?

Thanks AFM! I didn't know that Obama was involved in it as well. Alex Jones is interesting to listen to.

Are you familiar with Pickle Gate?

Watch on YouTube

[bealwithit]

Here you go boss

Watch on YouTube

#Pizzagate is REAL...


Are you taking your Super Male Vitality supplements?

Thanks AFM! I didn't know that Obama was involved in it as well. Alex Jones is interesting to listen to.

Are you familiar with Pickle Gate?

Watch on YouTube