The (Quintessential) Trade Thread, 2017 (Part 5.0)

[sully00]

Our team has won 17 titles with guys like Russell, Bird, Cowens and KG. If you don't have guys of that caliber, and we most certainly do not, you are not winning a title, and that's all there is to it.

Underline those last two sentences and read them again and again and again if you need to. That should not even need to be explained to a Boston sports fan, IMO. Everything you do in rebuilding should be geared towards getting one of those guys.
.

The 3 Pistons titles and the recent Warriors one were won without any players much better than IT.

However, those teams each had a second-best player far ahead of Bradley/Crowder/Horford/Smart.

Total disrespect to Steph Curry.

Guy made the HOF by age 28 and could easily pass Larry Bird in the pantheon sooner rather than later.

You have to be kidding? You have lost your mind.

[CelticFaninLBC]

The 3 Pistons titles and the recent Warriors one were won without any players much better than IT.

However, those teams each had a second-best player far ahead of Bradley/Crowder/Horford/Smart.

Total disrespect to Steph Curry.

Guy made the HOF by age 28 and could easily pass Larry Bird in the pantheon sooner rather than later.

You have to be kidding? You have lost your mind.

The guy can't handle being wrong. Steph's a great player, but it's just ridiculous to suggest he can pass Bird.

[pfm]

Smart needs to stay. He's the type of player that wills teams to wins when things aren't going well. That is rare. He has the passion you want in a player. And he's only 22 and constantly improving.

Absolutely. I've felt this way for a while now (probably at some point during his rookie year), regardless of his ups and downs. I think it's probably unlikely Marcus ever becomes a true "star" player, but he's the kind of guy you want to go to war with. He's the glue, the energy, the hustle, the tenacity, the grit, and the never say die kind of **** who can and will do literally whatever is needed of him to win a game. A unique kind of weapon. He's absolutely special in that regard. Just a winning/championship type kind guy (and this is coming from someone whose a bit of a stat head).

If Marcus is a make or break piece for a true star (ala AD) then you might have to bite the bullet (which I find a bit odd as a scenario as I think he holds a lot more value to a contending team than he does a rebuilding one). But that situation aside, I'd make sure to hold onto him. If/when this team hopefully has a contender worthy team filled with other star types, Marcus is the exact kind of guy who pushes that team over the top.

[MaxwellSmart]

I don't think Phil lets KOQ go w/o a deal for Melo.

I mentioned a 3-way deal between the deal between Boston, New York and the Clippers back when the Melo thing first came up.

I can't remember exactly, but it was something like:

BOS gets Redick, KOQ
LAC gets Melo
NY gets Austin Rivers. Wes Johnson, Zeller, and a non-Brooklyn 1st from Boston

I know most NY fans would probably hate it, but if Phil really wants to get rid of Melo (and Melo won't waive his NTC for more teams), then this is probably about the best they could hope for.

I think it's a fair deal--but you would probably need to ship Rozier or Jackson to Clippers--cause we would need to open a roster spot anyway--and Doc would need another guard.....WORKS in the trade machine.

[TheRev72]

Kyle O'Quinn? I like it. But you gotta think bigger! Get Carmelo too. And Hayward. Mega-deal:

Celtics In: Gordan Hayward; Carmelo Anthony; Kyle O’Quinn
Celtics Out: Avery Bradley; Terry Rozier; Amir Johnson; Jonas Jerebko; Tyler Zeller; James Young; 2018 first round pick (Celtics); 2 second round picks from 2017

Jazz In: Avery Bradley; Jonas Jerebko; James Young; 2017 second round picks (Wolves)
Jazz Out: Gordan Hayward

Knicks In: Terry Rozier; Amir Johnson; Tyler Zeller; 2018 first round pick (Celtics); 2017 second round pick (Clips)
Knicks Out: Carmelo Anthony; Kyle O’Quinn

Works on the trade machine.

Why for Celtics: Just trade for Hayward now. Then trade expiring/option guys (Amir + Zeller) to get Carmelo and and swap Rozier for Kyle O’Quinn. Compete for a title now with the vets IT, Hayward, Crowder, Melo, and Horford. Olynyk and O’Quinn as useful bigs off the bench. At the same time, preserve the future and keep developing that second, "young team" with the Nets’ picks, Smart, Brown, and (hopefully) Zizic.

Why for Jazz: They are smart and, as shown in their Deron Williams deal a few years ago, they won't want to lose Hayward for nothing (and they will lose him, I think). So, they make the trade to get an up and coming two-way guard in Bradley. They give James Young a try-out and get an extra 2nd round pick. Jerebko included for salary purposes, but also a likely useful player for them.

Why for Knicks: Phil gets out from under the Melo-drama - they cut all his salary next year when Amir and Zeller can come off the books. They get Rozier as a PG prospect, as they’ll likely not re-sign Rose. And they get two draft picks to bring in more youngsters to build around Porzingis.

[OFWGKTA]

Captain_Caveman outted as a Warriors homer

[Bill Lumbergh]

Wait. Orlando wants Smart? What about Payton?

I'd target Aaron Gordon is this scenario. He's been injured and miscast so far in his career but he's a Draymond type top 10 guy in a couple years if he gets in the right system and stays healthy.

I wouldn't trade Smart straight up for Gordon. Smart is great at defense, and his offense has improved a good bit this year. The only thing Gordon is great at is dunking. So hard pass on this for me.

[spearsy23]

You guys want a Russell Westbrook? Be aware we've done unspeakable things to him and there may be some ptsd from all the bricks that have caromed towards his head this season.

Ignoring the cost, is there a non-zero chance Presti deals him this year?

I think if we could guarantee BRK pick to be #1 this year and next plus anyone on this roster the chances are probably zero percent. Russ seems inclined to stay for the next few seasons to try and win before building his brand in LA with the Lakers.

Yeah, if nothing else it would look really bad to ask a guy to sign am extension and then trade him somewhere when he hasn't asked out. It's just frustrating for us fans how bad of a job presti has done surrounding him with real NBA players, he deserves better.

[ddb]

Kyle O'Quinn? I like it. But you gotta think bigger! Get Carmelo too. And Hayward. Mega-deal:

Celtics In: Gordan Hayward; Carmelo Anthony; Kyle O’Quinn
Celtics Out: Avery Bradley; Terry Rozier; Amir Johnson; Jonas Jerebko; Tyler Zeller; James Young; 2018 first round pick (Celtics); 2 second round picks from 2017

Jazz In: Avery Bradley; Jonas Jerebko; James Young; 2017 second round picks (Wolves)
Jazz Out: Gordan Hayward

Knicks In: Terry Rozier; Amir Johnson; Tyler Zeller; 2018 first round pick (Celtics); 2017 second round pick (Clips)
Knicks Out: Carmelo Anthony; Kyle O’Quinn

Works on the trade machine.

Why for Celtics: Just trade for Hayward now. Then trade expiring/option guys (Amir + Zeller) to get Carmelo and and swap Rozier for Kyle O’Quinn. Compete for a title now with the vets IT, Hayward, Crowder, Melo, and Horford. Olynyk and O’Quinn as useful bigs off the bench. At the same time, preserve the future and keep developing that second, "young team" with the Nets’ picks, Smart, Brown, and (hopefully) Zizic.

Why for Jazz: They are smart and, as shown in their Deron Williams deal a few years ago, they won't want to lose Hayward for nothing (and they will lose him, I think). So, they make the trade to get an up and coming two-way guard in Bradley. They give James Young a try-out and get an extra 2nd round pick. Jerebko included for salary purposes, but also a likely useful player for them.

Why for Knicks: Phil gets out from under the Melo-drama - they cut all his salary next year when Amir and Zeller can come off the books. They get Rozier as a PG prospect, as they’ll likely not re-sign Rose. And they get two draft picks to bring in more youngsters to build around Porzingis.

stuff like this just doesn't happen in the NBA.

[chrisab123]

Ignoring the cost, is there a non-zero chance Presti deals him this year?

I think if we could guarantee BRK pick to be #1 this year and next plus anyone on this roster the chances are probably zero percent. Russ seems inclined to stay for the next few seasons to try and win before building his brand in LA with the Lakers.

Yeah, if nothing else it would look really bad to ask a guy to sign am extension and then trade him somewhere when he hasn't asked out. It's just frustrating for us fans how bad of a job presti has done surrounding him with real NBA players, he deserves better.

Oh I'd give up every pick we own for him plus anything else outside of IT and Horford that was asked. Problem is that it just won't happen. Russ wants to try to gut it out in OKC and if nothing happens say by the end of 2017 you might see a deal to LA. Which is where he really wants to play if he can't make it happen in OKC.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Legit argument about Golden State. They have to win a second ring to differentiate from right place, right time champions like the 2004 Pistons.

And remember, the only difference between the champion Warriors and the playoff also-ran is switching Mark Jackson for Steve Kerr.

They got major improvement out of Dray, but it's the new system that made them great.

It would be like if the Raptors suddenly became a 65-win team by replacing their coach and giving more minutes to Poeltl.

Under Jackson, they were an unhappy also-ran - Kerr unlocked the potential of that group of guys.

So the weights of talent, coaching, and the system itself are still inconclusive.

[FakeScreenName123]

The guy can't handle being wrong. Steph's a great player, but it's just ridiculous to suggest he can pass Bird.

No it's not. Stats will be there + title opportunity + he'll be the guy everyone thinks of when they think of this (3-Ball) era post-Lebron. He'll have a chance. Very few do.

[FakeScreenName123]

Let me add put IT on the Warriors instead of Curry and the Warriors are still the hands down favorites to win the championship.

Since that there's no way to prove this. My opnion can cancel yer opinion and let me state that that's not true at all. IT is 3rd team All-NBA MAYBE 2nd team for 1 year. Steph is MVP will be multiple 1st team 2nd team. That's an exponential difference.


SAD!

[FakeScreenName123]

The Warriors were able to take this compilation of 2nd tier stars 7 or 8 players deep and added a smart coach who implemented a system that took it to another level.

If you mean 2nd tier stars 7, 8 deep surrounding a top 5 player than yah.

I think you have the coach/player dynamic backwards. Jackson held back Steph (cave will agree w/ that) and Kerr just allowed Steph to do Steph things. Every dynamic, generational player changes how the game is played and history will be always on the players side. Kerr is not responsible for how Curry plays/how good that team is. Great players make the system.


Klay/Steph are much better than C's fans think, and I don't get why that bias exists. Is it some internal bias against their type of offense?

[Ben-N1ce]

How hard would it be to get Bogut?

[Homerclease]

How hard would it be to get Bogut?

I don't think he's gonna be on the block anymore, mavs want to make the playoffs for Dirks swan song. They are playing better and already knocking on the door

[cl2117]

WCS contract for 2017 is 3,7 mill, Roziers is 2 mill.

We can not take more salary in, than going out because we lose max cap space in 2017.

This trade only works in Brk pick is nb.3, because there is 1,6 million difference betwen 1st and 3rd pick, but we will not know that till loterry.
OR
Trade also works if we do not bring Zizic in 2017, because his slary will be 1,65 mill.

It would be a great move, actually for both teams, but...

Throw in a James Young for Ty Lawson swap (just cut Lawson) and it works I think.

Is it weird that I want to keep James Young around? I just have a vibe that he's going to end up being a good player. He's starting to show signs too. 21 years old guys.

Yes and no. No it's not weird that you want to keep him around because he has been so young during his time with us that it's always felt like it's only a matter of time before he turns the corner. But yeah it's kind of weird given that, in my opinion, he's gotten to the point that even if he come on incredibly strong to end this season, he's the most likely cut because he has never turned that corner and we've got an inevitable roster crunch and keeping him requires us to dump someone who has yet to disappoint.

[CelticFaninLBC]

The guy can't handle being wrong. Steph's a great player, but it's just ridiculous to suggest he can pass Bird.

No it's not. Stats will be there + title opportunity + he'll be the guy everyone thinks of when they think of this (3-Ball) era post-Lebron. He'll have a chance. Very few do.

You may be way too young to recall, but Bird beat better teams. Steph beat an injured Cleveland team, and then choked when LeBron had everyone last year. Bird beat Magic, Kareem, Dr. J etc..

[cl2117]

Larry Bird highlight reels should be shown in Boston public schools as part of the core curriculum.

[FakeScreenName123]

You may be way too young to recall, but Bird beat better teams. Steph beat an injured Cleveland team, and then choked when LeBron had everyone last year. Bird beat Magic, Kareem, Dr. J etc..

You may be too old to recall that people for the past several years here scoffed at the idea Lebron could be better than Bird, let alone win rings. Now, after last year, Lebron shut alot of people up. It's not ridiculous to think that he's better.

Things change.