Luka Doncic

[XTraderXL]

Maybe its that low camera angle, or just a midget opponent, but Doncic looks huge in this game. If it was my first time seeing him, and you told me he was 6'10, I would have believed you.

He is a big kid, a legit 6'8 or even 6'9 by some accounts. He apparently grew an inch since the start of the season so he very well could grow to be 6'10.

He had an ok game today, not the best we have seen from him this year but still contributed a lot. He had 12p, 10r and 7a, 3/9 fg and 5/6 ft for VAL 23. He also had the highest +/-, +13.

His shots werent falling like usual but this time he was good on defense. He got beat a couple of times but on the other hand he was contesting every shot and was very good in rotation and help defense.

[Bob8]

and that's the problem. Nobody is denying he's a nice player and maybe even the best at his age...in Europe. How he translates to the NBA is the issue. Those in your camp believe he'll carry over his physical/skill advantage. I on the other hand don't see it. Almost none of the things I see in highlights are plays I can see him making on a regular basis in the NBA. He looks like an eventual #3 or maybe #2 option at most to me. I'm guessing you all believe he'll be a #1. We'll just have to wait and see.

It's impossible to watch only highlights and judge how someone is playing. You have to watch full games.

[JPF]

Ball handling? in a wider sense he is damn more reliable than either Ntilikina currently playing 2 levels lower competition (although decent) or Rubio was at Dončič's age

Lack of flashy crossovers equals bad ballhandling or lacking the scoring instincts are just a matter of an unawareness about how big of a quality gap we are actually talking at various euro levels. Those Spaniards that watched him in junior stages would easily agree with it. Luka actualy has the tendency to overpush it, however at this huge transition it's impossible to showcase it without turning the ball over repeatedly.

If you really want to talk about Dončič's weaknesses, for god's sake don't talk about ballhandling, athleticism, first step, even size being an issue with 6'8 perimeter player (!?!) or compare him with a "could develop into a defensive juggernaught Frank Ntilikina", you've got 1 notable issue noone talks about, that's his actuall NBA position.

Doncic is a reliable ballhandler but that has nothing to do with creativity. If you think he is a scorer in the NBA then its a legitimate concern. If he doesn't show an arsenal of crossovers and stop/go at the Euro level then how is it likely at the highest level?

You essentially want people not to talk about legitimate concerns if you are claiming he is a top 3 pick and franchise player capable of being a go-to scorer.

Trolling, baiting

[reanimator]

I'll try with european basketball for dummies style:
-there are euro leagues and there is the "Euroleague": the quality varies
-Dončič is in euroleague, no.2 bball competition after NBA
-17 years old in euroleague don't happen
-productive 17 years old in euroleague; see above
-productive 17 years olds in euroleague with flashy ballhandling are something completely common though, on average sth. like 3-4 per team
-players that are neither productive, nor 17 and most of all not even good enough for the euroleague can fullfill all your expectations of crossover arsenal at the average HS level.

1. I don't care how many leagues there are or where euroleague ranks. It is nowhere near the NBA in terms of physicality and athleticism and questioning what translates is valid.
2. I'm not asking about random 17 year olds in euroleague who are creative ballhandlers, I'm asking about Doncic. If it is common then that only makes me question why Doncic has not flashed this ability?

[JPF]

and that's the problem. Nobody is denying he's a nice player and maybe even the best at his age...in Europe. How he translates to the NBA is the issue. Those in your camp believe he'll carry over his physical/skill advantage. I on the other hand don't see it. Almost none of the things I see in highlights are plays I can see him making on a regular basis in the NBA. He looks like an eventual #3 or maybe #2 option at most to me. I'm guessing you all believe he'll be a #1. We'll just have to wait and see.

Everything you said is true. Wholefully agree.
The thing I keep saying is that he is overly reliant on pick and roll from the top. That's because he is really good at it at the moment and suits the team he plays in. Without that ability he wouldn't be playing half the minutes he is getting right now and he definately won't be able to use that as often in NBA. A lot of prospects aren't as lucky to fit in that easily and that plays a role with his production at such early age.

The thing that surprised me with Dončič is the progress and the pace of it he is making in the last 2 years. It's clearly visible almost from one month to another. That's why a lot of euro posters will say they're not as worried about NBA transition as they are still in awe by his transition to euroleague.

[Bob8]

I'll try with european basketball for dummies style:
-there are euro leagues and there is the "Euroleague": the quality varies
-Dončič is in euroleague, no.2 bball competition after NBA
-17 years old in euroleague don't happen
-productive 17 years old in euroleague; see above
-productive 17 years olds in euroleague with flashy ballhandling are something completely common though, on average sth. like 3-4 per team
-players that are neither productive, nor 17 and most of all not even good enough for the euroleague can fullfill all your expectations of crossover arsenal at the average HS level.

1. I don't care how many leagues there are or where euroleague ranks. It is nowhere near the NBA in terms of physicality and athleticism and questioning what translates is valid.
2. I'm not asking about random 17 year olds in euroleague who are creative ballhandlers, I'm asking about Doncic. If it is common then that only makes me question why Doncic has not flashed this ability?

I have the feeling that not many american posters saw him playing. My question is, how many Euroleague games and games where Doncic has played, have you seen?

[JPF]

1. I don't care how many leagues there are or where euroleague ranks. It is nowhere near the NBA in terms of physicality and athleticism and questioning what translates is valid.
2. I'm not asking about random 17 year olds in euroleague who are creative ballhandlers, I'm asking about Doncic. If it is common then that only makes me question why Doncic has not flashed this ability?

1. Well, flashy crossovers don't, in case you're in doubt.
2. There are no 17 year olds in euroleague except for Dončič. I said that as a sarcasm since the next young player in euroleague that has a mentionable effect on his team is 21-22 years old. And incidentaly, he doesn't believe he could afford many flashy crossovers either

[Sports Geek]

But this applies for players like LeBron James, who was a man among boys at that age. Doncic has a more skill-based and less physically dominant approach to the game right?

He physically competes with veterans and even defend them on the post, that's why people thinks his body is mature already. I think he can still improve a lot on his body.

and that's the problem. Nobody is denying he's a nice player and maybe even the best at his age...in Europe. How he translates to the NBA is the issue. Those in your camp believe he'll carry over his physical/skill advantage. I on the other hand don't see it. Almost none of the things I see in highlights are plays I can see him making on a regular basis in the NBA. He looks like an eventual #3 or maybe #2 option at most to me. I'm guessing you all believe he'll be a #1. We'll just have to wait and see.

Do you mean #2 or #3 scoring option? Why does a franchise player has to be a pure scorer? I think Doncic will be more one of those triple double players. Counting the assists like in the NBA, he would already have several even playing limited minutes. Today was the perfect example. I was watching the game and said: "he is in his worst moment of the season. Two bad games in a row (yeah, he never had before).He has made a great job on defense but it is not enough for a final 8 game". Then I looked at the stats. 12-10-7 and 23 PIR. "OMG how did he do that?"

I'm not asking about random 17 year olds in euroleague who are creative ballhandlers, I'm asking about Doncic. If it is common then that only makes me question why Doncic has not flashed this ability?

Because he is playing to win titles for a pro team, not to get a better position in the draft. Remember that behind the back pass, then between the legs, then lay-up? Take a look at coach Laso when Doncic was celebrating the basket. He wants him to play solid, not flashy. And he is doing what his coach wants, that's why he is getting minutes.

[reanimator]

1. Well, flashy crossovers don't, in case you're in doubt.
2. There are no 17 year olds in euroleague except for Dončič. I said that as a sarcasm since the next young player in euroleague that has a mentionable effect on his team is 21-22 years old. And incidentaly, he doesn't believe he could afford many flashy crossovers either

"Flashy" ballhandling has the functional use of getting defenders off balance and creating separation, especially for slow-footed guys like Doncic in a league full of premium athletes like the NBA. It'd be nice if he starts flashing some creativity.

Do you mean #2 or #3 scoring option? Why does a franchise player has to be a pure scorer?

Because he is playing to win titles for a pro team, not to get a better position in the draft. Remember that behind the back pass, then between the legs, then lay-up? Take a look at coach Laso when Doncic was celebrating the basket. He wants him to play solid, not flashy. And he is doing what his coach wants, that's why he is getting minutes.

List all of the franchise players who aren't volume scorers.

You all keep confusing flashy and excessive plays like no look passes and other nonsense with functional skills like changing gears.

[Stackey]

And I wondered when will someone start again with "he's 6'9''" or "could end as 6'10''". True is that Luka is between 6'7'' - 6'8'' in shoes and I don't get it why do people can't accept that, as for me he's a pick number 1 but he jus't isn't that tall as some of you want to make us belive.

[Sports Geek]

List all of the franchise players who aren't volume scorers.

Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Mark Price, Jason Kidd. Pretty good careers I think. You will say: not now, the game has changed. I say: you are right. Talent is disappearing. I would take the oldest Stockton over the best Rose. That's why you and me don't understand each other. We will see if Doncic can be one of those different players in the nowadays NBA.

You all keep confusing flashy and excessive plays like no look passes and other nonsense with functional skills like changing gears.

You keep judging Doncic without watching a single game of him. That's why you don't understand what we mean. For example: UcanUwill is liking Doncic more because he is watching him play. He is one of those players, man. All around, smart, tough, talented,... Watch a whole game he played. A bad one, please. A player has to be judged based on what he is able to give you when he is having a bad game.

[Sports Geek]

And I wondered when will someone start again with "he's 6'9''" or "could end as 6'10''". True is that Luka is between 6'7'' - 6'8'' in shoes and I don't get it why do people can't accept that, as for me he's a pick number 1 but he jus't isn't that tall as some of you want to make us belive.

According to today's TV broadcast, he is 6'8". In Europe it is usually bare feet, but they didn't say anything about it.

[reanimator]

List all of the franchise players who aren't volume scorers.

Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Mark Price, Jason Kidd.

Ahhh so you have to list generational HOF talents that span 3 decades and can only field 4 names? Odds don't look to good for Doncic as "the guy" without the ability to get buckets.

You keep judging Doncic without watching a single game of him. That's why you don't understand what we mean. For example: UcanUwill is liking Doncic more because he is watching him play. He is one of those players, man. All around, smart, tough, talented,... Watch a whole game he played. A bad one, please. A player has to be judged based on what he is able to give you when he is having a bad game.

Except no one is saying Doncic is bad or won't be a valuable player in the NBA nor that he isn't incredibly well-rounded just that there are legitimate questions ask when you start saying number one pick, future franchise player, and start evoking Lebron and Magic Johnson's names.

[Bob8]

1. Well, flashy crossovers don't, in case you're in doubt.
2. There are no 17 year olds in euroleague except for Dončič. I said that as a sarcasm since the next young player in euroleague that has a mentionable effect on his team is 21-22 years old. And incidentaly, he doesn't believe he could afford many flashy crossovers either

"Flashy" ballhandling has the functional use of getting defenders off balance and creating separation, especially for slow-footed guys like Doncic in a league full of premium athletes like the NBA. It'd be nice if he starts flashing some creativity.

Do you mean #2 or #3 scoring option? Why does a franchise player has to be a pure scorer?

Because he is playing to win titles for a pro team, not to get a better position in the draft. Remember that behind the back pass, then between the legs, then lay-up? Take a look at coach Laso when Doncic was celebrating the basket. He wants him to play solid, not flashy. And he is doing what his coach wants, that's why he is getting minutes.

List all of the franchise players who aren't volume scorers.

You all keep confusing flashy and excessive plays like no look passes and other nonsense with functional skills like changing gears.

What do you think, 30 Nba scouts saw yesterday in Vitoria? 17 years old kid who can score, rebound and assist and have such trust from the coach, that he left him in the game almost the whole second half and overtime, when Real was behind and desperately chased the opponents, to finally win in the end? Or 17 years old kid who doesn't have flashy moves?

http://www.acb.com/fichas/CREY81002.php

[reanimator]

What do you think, 30 Nba scouts saw yesterday in Vitoria? 17 old kid who can score, rebound and assists and have such trust from the coach, that he left him in the game almost the whole second half and overtime, when Real was behind and desperately chased the opponents, to finally win in the end? Or 17 old kid who doesn't have flashy moves?

http://www.acb.com/fichas/CREY81002.php

i'm not sure i understand what you're asking me....

[Sports Geek]

Ahhh so you have to list generational HOF talents that span 3 decades and can only field 4 names? Odds don't look to good for Doncic as "the guy" without the ability to get buckets.

You are the one saying he can't get buckets. I say, even if he couldn't, he could still be an improved Jason Kidd (bigger, more athletic and a better shooter). Today in a bad offensive game, he scored 12, not bad at all.

Again, watch a game and you will understand why he takes very few shots. He runs the offense for the team, not for himself. And it is working. +13 with him on the floor today.

[reanimator]

Ahhh so you have to list generational HOF talents that span 3 decades and can only field 4 names? Odds don't look to good for Doncic as "the guy" without the ability to get buckets.

You are the one saying he can't get buckets. I say, even if he couldn't, he could still be an improved Jason Kidd (bigger, more athletic and a better shooter). Today in a bad offensive game, he scored 12, not bad at all.

Again, watch a game and you will understand why he takes very few shots. He runs the offense for the team, not for himself. And it is working. +13 with him on the floor today.

Doncic is more athletic than Jason Kidd? Doncic can defend like Jason Kidd? Doncic can create looks for his teammates like Jason Kidd?

[Bob8]

What do you think, 30 Nba scouts saw yesterday in Vitoria? 17 old kid who can score, rebound and assists and have such trust from the coach, that he left him in the game almost the whole second half and overtime, when Real was behind and desperately chased the opponents, to finally win in the end? Or 17 old kid who doesn't have flashy moves?

http://www.acb.com/fichas/CREY81002.php

i'm not sure i understand what you're asking me....

30 Nba scouts has came in Spain to watch Coppa del Ray in Vitoria. I asked you, what do you think they saw yesterday? This is boxscore,
http://www.acb.com/fichas/CREY81002.php

What do you think they have seen?

1. 17 old kid who can score, rebound and assist, run the offense, play very decent defense and have such trust from the coach, that he left him in the game almost the whole second half and overtime, when Real was behind and desperately chased the opponents, to finally win in the end?

2. 17 old kid who doesn't have flashy moves?

Which one?

[reanimator]

What do you think, 30 Nba scouts saw yesterday in Vitoria? 17 old kid who can score, rebound and assists and have such trust from the coach, that he left him in the game almost the whole second half and overtime, when Real was behind and desperately chased the opponents, to finally win in the end? Or 17 old kid who doesn't have flashy moves?

http://www.acb.com/fichas/CREY81002.php

i'm not sure i understand what you're asking me....

30 Nba scouts has came in Spain to watch Coppa del Ray in Vitoria. I asked you, what do you think they saw yesterday? This is boxscore,
http://www.acb.com/fichas/CREY81002.php

What do you think they have seen?

1. 17 old kid who can score, rebound and assist, run the offense and have such trust from the coach, that he left him in the game almost the whole second half and overtime, when Real was behind and desperately chased the opponents, to finally win in the end?

2. 17 old kid who doesn't have flashy moves?

Which one?

Everyone knows Doncic is a NBA prospect. Why you want to keep deflecting from analyzing his game with stuff like this is beyond me.

[Thespianoid]

Ahhh so you have to list generational HOF talents that span 3 decades and can only field 4 names? Odds don't look to good for Doncic as "the guy" without the ability to get buckets.

You are the one saying he can't get buckets. I say, even if he couldn't, he could still be an improved Jason Kidd (bigger, more athletic and a better shooter). Today in a bad offensive game, he scored 12, not bad at all.

Again, watch a game and you will understand why he takes very few shots. He runs the offense for the team, not for himself. And it is working. +13 with him on the floor today.

Doncic is more athletic than Jason Kidd? Doncic can defend like Jason Kidd? Doncic can create looks for his teammates like Jason Kidd?

yes. doubtful. yes

doesn't have the ballhandling wizardry of Kidd but add in better shooting and (eventually) post offense/playmaking.