Political Roundtable Part XII

[AFM]

THEY'RE GOING TO GIVE HIM THE ELECTRIC CHAIR!

[Mike Pence the Electric Fence]

You are my RealGM soulmate.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[nate33]

My greatest concern at your words, however, would be that if you really think the press is "illegitimate" you may also think that these "illegitimate" media outlets should be replaced with ones that are "legitimate", i.e. that aren't "biased" against the person in whom I believe (a lack of bias reflected in not questioning the truth of what he says).

I would be very happy to have that concern alleviated, nate -- no bs, I'm sincere. I ask you to please weigh in on this subject or tell me there's no reason to, because I've misinterpreted your words.

As I said before, the First Amendment grants the freedom of the press. I'd be very upset to see any government action that suppressed the freedom of press by force (other than for very narrowly defined national security issues as is currently the case). But the First Amendment does not guarantee that the President has to actively support all media outlets. I see nothing wrong whatsoever with the President calling CNN "fake news". I see no Constitutional crisis or Orwellian nightmare with this action. I see a President with a platform fighting back against a powerful media, who also have a platform. It's a fair fight.

[bealwithit]

Read on Twitter

I'm actually disappointed by this.
Would have been an adult in the room and brought in his own team. Guess he saw today's press conference and said... no thanks!

But I'm sure he just consumes too much fake news which has made him a Hillary loving libcuck.

[sfam]

My greatest concern at your words, however, would be that if you really think the press is "illegitimate" you may also think that these "illegitimate" media outlets should be replaced with ones that are "legitimate", i.e. that aren't "biased" against the person in whom I believe (a lack of bias reflected in not questioning the truth of what he says).

I would be very happy to have that concern alleviated, nate -- no bs, I'm sincere. I ask you to please weigh in on this subject or tell me there's no reason to, because I've misinterpreted your words.

As I said before, the First Amendment grants the freedom of the press. I'd be very upset to see any government action that suppressed the freedom of press by force (other than for very narrowly defined national security issues as is currently the case). But the First Amendment does not guarantee that the President has to actively support all media outlets. I see nothing wrong whatsoever with the President calling CNN "fake news". I see no Constitutional crisis or Orwellian nightmare with this action. I see a President with a platform fighting back against a powerful media, who also have a platform. It's a fair fight.

Not its not.

The "fight" should be over policy, not fact. "Fake news" implies the news being provided is not factual. This is simply not accurate. Like, its not. There are actual facts. This is independent from outlets.

By calling all news Trump disagrees with as fake news, be they based on factual reporting, or opinion pieces - those two things really are different - the President is lowering the trust in our fundamental governance processes. This has long term consequences.

EDIT: I've been to lots and lots of countries where its no longer possible to have fact-based discussions. Believe me, this is just not a good thing. This is a staple of Authoritarian rule, for very obvious reasons - you can't challenge a dictator if nothing is real.

[bealwithit]

THEY'RE GOING TO GIVE HIM THE ELECTRIC CHAIR!

[Mike Pence the Electric Fence]

You are my RealGM soulmate.

Hadn't seen the second one before lmao

Important to note that Trump and Alex Jones are friendly.
Trump says he has a "great reputation."

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

[verbal8]

This _PizzaGate_ non-sense is merely an attempt to cover-up the many mistakes made by _EG__.

You could fill those blanks with literally ANYTHING and it would make just as much sense as that Trump tweet.

[tontoz]

The "mess" comments were pretty ridiculous considering the tsunami that Obama had to deal with. Overall i would say the press conference wasn't that bad though. I didn't bother fact checking but i will assume there were some "Trump facts" that don't jibe with reality.

But he had his say and then stood there and took all the hard questions. He might not have answered them the way people would want him to, but he didn't dismiss them. He could have very easily just said his piece and then walked out without taking questions at all. The fact that he was taking questions at a time when his administration is coming under fire is a good sign to me.

[verbal8]

Trumps behavior during the campaign was bad, but his behavior and actions after the election are a much bigger problem IMO. He has alienated so many people I don't see how he will be able to govern effectively, assuming he is able to stay in office for 4 years.

Just a reminder, we're still in his first month!!! Like literally, there are more than 11 months to go to just get done with his first year!

So that means over 47 months left in his first(and hopefully last) term.

[verbal8]

12 lies Trump told at the presser.
http://www.progressivepostdaily./2017/02/16/12-lies-from-donald-trumps-press-conference-today/



Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Only twelve? It must be an off day for him.

[payitforward]

Trump made exaggerated hand gestures while putting on an "I'm saying something stupid" voice. It's a normal caricature that lots of people make when trying to express that someone else is being stupid or annoying.

So yes he mocked the guy. A guy who had a disability. After saying the phrase "You've got to see this guy..."

I can understand being defensive and partisan about feeling your guy has become a lightning rod in the media. But some of the justifications of his behavior veer into a Twilight zone, where I genuinely don't understand how a remarkably bright person like you can't at least admit to qualms about his demeanor and judgment. Whatever his positive qualities its got to be tough to defend some of this, and at least raise questions.

The Russia stuff doesn't make you at least hold your breath hoping nothing damning comes out?

We're veering into defending Kwame Brown territory here.

Didn't Kwame also have small hands? Hmmmmm.

[payitforward]

Trump made exaggerated hand gestures while putting on an "I'm saying something stupid" voice. It's a normal caricature that lots of people make when trying to express that someone else is being stupid or annoying.

So yes he mocked the guy. A guy who had a disability. After saying the phrase "You've got to see this guy..."

I can understand being defensive and partisan about feeling your guy has become a lightning rod in the media. But some of the justifications of his behavior veer into a Twilight zone, where I genuinely don't understand how a remarkably bright person like you can't at least admit to qualms about his demeanor and judgment. Whatever his positive qualities its got to be tough to defend some of this, and at least raise questions.

The Russia stuff doesn't make you at least hold your breath hoping nothing damning comes out?

We're veering into defending Kwame Brown territory here.

Didn't Kwame also have small hands? Hmmmmm.

More seriously for a moment -- nate I'm starting to feel sorry for the situation you're in. Maybe a little worried for you as well.

I don't know who you wanted Donald Trump to be, but that's not who he is. It seems pretty clear. At this point, even Fox News is abandoning him. And, no, his campaign-style rally isn't going to help him, though it certainly might increase the social chaos level.

This has nothing to do with conservative vs. liberal. It has nothing to do with anyone's position on immigration. It has nothing to do with protectionism vs. free trade.

This has to do with a guy who is in no way suited for, prepared for, or stepping up to the actual job of being President. If anything the campaign rally redux just shows his desire to return to that simpler time & level, as he is apparently unable to handle the realities of what he's gotten himself into. If anything, he seems to be exhibiting some behaviors indicating actual emotional breakdown.

For a Republican, a traditional conservative, I can't see this as posing much of a difficulty. Trump goes, and Mike Pence is President -- the kind of guy in the office they couldn't have dreamed they'd get not that long ago. If he steps up, he'll be a strong bet to be elected again in '20.

[nate33]

So yes he mocked the guy. A guy who had a disability. After saying the phrase "You've got to see this guy..."

I can understand being defensive and partisan about feeling your guy has become a lightning rod in the media. But some of the justifications of his behavior veer into a Twilight zone, where I genuinely don't understand how a remarkably bright person like you can't at least admit to qualms about his demeanor and judgment. Whatever his positive qualities its got to be tough to defend some of this, and at least raise questions.

The Russia stuff doesn't make you at least hold your breath hoping nothing damning comes out?

We're veering into defending Kwame Brown territory here.

Didn't Kwame also have small hands? Hmmmmm.

More seriously for a moment -- nate I'm starting to feel sorry for the situation you're in. Maybe a little worried for you as well.

I don't know who you wanted Donald Trump to be, but that's not who he is. It seems pretty clear. At this point, even Fox News is abandoning him. And, no, his campaign-style rally isn't going to help him, though it certainly might increase the social chaos level.

This has nothing to do with conservative vs. liberal. It has nothing to do with anyone's position on immigration. It has nothing to do with protectionism vs. free trade.

This has to do with a guy who is in no way suited for, prepared for, or stepping up to the actual job of being President. If anything the campaign rally redux just shows his desire to return to that simpler time & level, as he is apparently unable to handle the realities of what he's gotten himself into. If anything, he seems to be exhibiting some behaviors indicating actual emotional breakdown.

For a Republican, a traditional conservative, I can't see this as posing much of a difficulty. Trump goes, and Mike Pence is President -- the kind of guy in the office they couldn't have dreamed they'd get not that long ago. If he steps up, he'll be a strong bet to be elected again in '20.

Your concern trolling is noted. Thanks.

[payitforward]

The guy was more concerned with CNN, Don Lemon's show, Fox & Friends, the press, the election, and Hillary than anything he's actually trying to do. Mind-boggling.

Or alternatively, Trump just had a 2-hour press conference and the media made no headway in demonizing him about the Flynn situation. Look! Squirrel!

I continue to be amazed at how you guys perceive Trump so differently than a Trump supporter like myself does. I loved the press conference. I thought it was magnificent. And so did virtually all of Trump's supporters. The only people that didn't like it are those that already hate Trump, and Trump isn't worried about impressing them.

Wow... starting to be hard to read your posts, nate.

What Flynn did is a legitimate question -- no, it's an absolutely critical question. All the more what Trump's relationship is to the "situation" as you call it. If you deny that, there's not much point in attending to anything at all that you write in this thread, as no one, no matter whether you support him on other issues or not, is exempt from responsibility to something beyond, something larger than, his own preferences or interests.

I take it that if you thought the press conference was "magnificent," you must think his overall performance in the first weeks of his Presidency has been pretty good. I'd say that indicates you are departing somewhat from a reality-based view of the current situation, as I don't think there are a lot of people who would agree with that.

Are there other "Trump supporters" who do agree? Sure! But he's going to have to please people other than his base in order to succeed in any way. Or, maybe success isn't what Trump supporters are after?

One thing I'd say he is succeeding at -- showing the world that, yes, America is great. Our institutions & social order are strong enough that they won't be knocked over by a clownish demagogue nor by an ugly, pretty tiny segment of people who are ready for some kind of dictator. In that sense, yes, he's shown again that America is great.

[bealwithit]

The guy was more concerned with CNN, Don Lemon's show, Fox & Friends, the press, the election, and Hillary than anything he's actually trying to do. Mind-boggling.

Or alternatively, Trump just had a 2-hour press conference and the media made no headway in demonizing him about the Flynn situation. Look! Squirrel!

I continue to be amazed at how you guys perceive Trump so differently than a Trump supporter like myself does. I loved the press conference. I thought it was magnificent. And so did virtually all of Trump's supporters. The only people that didn't like it are those that already hate Trump, and Trump isn't worried about impressing them.

Wow... starting to be hard to read your posts, nate.

What Flynn did is a legitimate question -- no, it's an absolutely critical question. All the more what Trump's relationship is to the "situation" as you call it. If you deny that, there's not much point in attending to anything at all that you write in this thread, as no one, no matter whether you support him on other issues or not, is exempt from responsibility to something beyond, something larger than, his own preferences or interests.

I take it that if you thought the press conference was "magnificent," you must think his overall performance in the first weeks of his Presidency has been pretty good. I'd say that indicates you are departing somewhat from a reality-based view of the current situation, as I don't think there are a lot of people who would agree with that.

Are there other "Trump supporters" who do agree? Sure! But he's going to have to please people other than his base in order to succeed in any way. Or, maybe success isn't what Trump supporters are after?

One thing I'd say he is succeeding at -- showing the world that, yes, America is great. Our institutions & social order are strong enough that they won't be knocked over by a clownish demagogue nor by an ugly, pretty tiny segment of people who are ready for some kind of dictator. In that sense, yes, he's shown again that America is great.

I think nate's also losing sight of the midterms, something I guarantee senate and House Republicans are sweating about if he keeps up his antics. I don't see progressives and Democrats being apathetic this time around. They're highly motivated and already showing up at town halls, etc. Need to show up to the 2018 polls. If not, they're hopeless.

[TGW]

Nate is not a Trump supporter, he's a Trump fanboy. Trump could piss on his head and call it alternative rain, and Nate would probably agree.

[AFM]

Nate is no Russian hooker. Those stories have been discredited.

[nate33]

CBS anchor John Dickerson: Press ruined its reputation 'on its own'

John Dickerson, anchor of CBS's "Face the Nation," disagrees with reporters who say President Trump is eroding the national media's credibility.

In a radio interview Friday, conservative host Hugh Hewitt referred to the previous day's press conference at the White House, in which Trump laid into the news media and told reporters in the room that the public cannot trust them.

"But that one comment, they don't trust you anymore, is a summation of where we are in America, because I really do think Manhattan-Beltway elites have lost the country," Hewitt said. "They've lost it."

Dickerson agreed.

"Yes, it's true, and it's not because of anything obviously Donald Trump did. The press did all that good work ruining its reputation on its own, and we can have a long conversation about what created that," Dickerson said.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cbs-anchor-press-ruined-own-reputation/article/2615131

[dckingsfan]

CBS anchor John Dickerson: Press ruined its reputation 'on its own'

John Dickerson, anchor of CBS's "Face the Nation," disagrees with reporters who say President Trump is eroding the national media's credibility.

In a radio interview Friday, conservative host Hugh Hewitt referred to the previous day's press conference at the White House, in which Trump laid into the news media and told reporters in the room that the public cannot trust them.

"But that one comment, they don't trust you anymore, is a summation of where we are in America, because I really do think Manhattan-Beltway elites have lost the country," Hewitt said. "They've lost it."

Dickerson agreed.

"Yes, it's true, and it's not because of anything obviously Donald Trump did. The press did all that good work ruining its reputation on its own, and we can have a long conversation about what created that," Dickerson said.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cbs-anchor-press-ruined-own-reputation/article/2615131

This is not a new phenomena. It is exasperating for those in the media. And "seems" to have a correlation to the trust in congress. This is why I am not confident in the mid-terms flipping things in middle-America - they think the media is just making this stuff up.

[DCZards]

CBS anchor John Dickerson: Press ruined its reputation 'on its own'

John Dickerson, anchor of CBS's "Face the Nation," disagrees with reporters who say President Trump is eroding the national media's credibility.

In a radio interview Friday, conservative host Hugh Hewitt referred to the previous day's press conference at the White House, in which Trump laid into the news media and told reporters in the room that the public cannot trust them.

"But that one comment, they don't trust you anymore, is a summation of where we are in America, because I really do think Manhattan-Beltway elites have lost the country," Hewitt said. "They've lost it."

Dickerson agreed.

"Yes, it's true, and it's not because of anything obviously Donald Trump did. The press did all that good work ruining its reputation on its own, and we can have a long conversation about what created that," Dickerson said.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/cbs-anchor-press-ruined-own-reputation/article/2615131

That’s one media person’s opinion…and you know what they say about opinions: “Opinions are like a**holes everybody has one.”

Here’s a different opinion from the same article:

After Thursday's press conference, which lasted more than an hour, many in the media said Trump's broadsides against the press were hurting the country.

"This not a laughing matter," NBC "Meet the Press" anchor Chuck Todd said on Twitter after the conference. "I'm sorry, delegitimizing the press is unAmerican."