Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight

[MrMiyagi]

I want this as my signature

Yeah, the trade machine is buggy af. The exact same thing happens with any player you do a 1:0 with. I saw it with Trey Burke and Nicholson on reddit I think... but same deal with Payton, Aaron Gordon.... practically anyone.

With Knight it's probably pretty accurate though.

If we got Curry for nothing, we'd get -5 games and Golden State -13: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=h4gl3k6

If we swap Curry for Knight, we still get -5, but Golden State gets -11: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=h5nusam

[Zelaznyrules]

I want this as my signature

Yeah, the trade machine is buggy af. The exact same thing happens with any player you do a 1:0 with. I saw it with Trey Burke and Nicholson on reddit I think... but same deal with Payton, Aaron Gordon.... practically anyone.

With Knight it's probably pretty accurate though.

I actually think his effect is understated. I think we'd be in the playoffs this year if Brandon Knight had overslept and missed the season.

[grumpysaddle]

Yeah, the trade machine is buggy af. The exact same thing happens with any player you do a 1:0 with. I saw it with Trey Burke and Nicholson on reddit I think... but same deal with Payton, Aaron Gordon.... practically anyone.

With Knight it's probably pretty accurate though.

I actually think his effect is understated. I think we'd be in the playoffs this year if Brandon Knight had overslept and missed the season.

It's no secret that I think he is the worst player in the NBA. He's absolute garbage that only serves to make everyone around him worse by proximity.

[AtheJ415]

Whats the price for Jared Dudley?

I don't see Phoenix trading him. He has, more than anyone, bought into helping the youngsters. He was signed to be that guy, and I think most of the other vets are more likely to be moved rather than Dudley (Barbosa, Tucker, Chandler). It would probably require 2 firsts, which no team would offer for him or a first and a solid youngster, and I can't imagine another team doing that for Dudley.

[thamadkant]

Sorry Kerrsed but regarding Jason Kidd being effective today is a silly question.

Of course he would be.
He is a HOF point guard who matched it with Nash when they went head to head and dominated the game even with a sub 35% 3pt percentage.

He is twice the player Rondo is and Rubio as well. Kidd could guard PGs to SFs due to his size.

And he was a dangerous 3pt shooter towards the end of his career as he knew he needed to adapt. If Kidd was entering today's league... He will no doubt develop a 3pt shot... It may not be off the dribble... But he will spot up.

[Zelaznyrules]

Sorry Kerrsed but regarding Jason Kidd being effective today is a silly question.

Of course he would be.
He is a HOF point guard who matched it with Nash when they went head to head and dominated the game even with a sub 35% 3pt percentage.

He is twice the player Rondo is and Rubio as well. Kidd could guard PGs to SFs due to his size.

And he was a dangerous 3pt shooter towards the end of his career as he knew he needed to adapt. If Kidd was entering today's league... He will no doubt develop a 3pt shot... It may not be off the dribble... But he will spot up.

Yeah, I don't care how much the league has changed, great players can adjust to any style change. It's the mediocre ones that might be marginalized.

[MrMiyagi]

Sorry Kerrsed but regarding Jason Kidd being effective today is a silly question.

Of course he would be.
He is a HOF point guard who matched it with Nash when they went head to head and dominated the game even with a sub 35% 3pt percentage.

He is twice the player Rondo is and Rubio as well. Kidd could guard PGs to SFs due to his size.

And he was a dangerous 3pt shooter towards the end of his career as he knew he needed to adapt. If Kidd was entering today's league... He will no doubt develop a 3pt shot... It may not be off the dribble... But he will spot up.

Yeah, I don't care how much the league has changed, great players can adjust to any style change. It's the mediocre ones that might be marginalized.

Not to mention he won a championship at the dawning of "this era" as an old man. The Mavs were a top 5 3-pt shooting team that season. Sure they'd be at the bottom of the pack in today's NBA, but they were playing with spacing, Kidd himself LEADING THE TEAM IN 3-PT ATTEMPTS.

[Zelaznyrules]

Man I feel almost alone here on Markkanen and I have no idea why. I'd trade Chriss or Bender for him in a flash and might even trade both of them to make it happen. I think he's going to walk into the NBA and be an impact player almost from the start. There are a couple of players (Fultz and Ball) that might have slightly higher up-side but he has a high ceiling and a very high floor. Worst case scenario, IMO, is a very rich man's Channing Frye. Hopefully, we get him and they talk him into taking some of that muscle off. That way he can get back a little of his quickness and improve his overall athleticism but even at his current weight he's going to be a factor in the League.

[Walt_Uoob]

Variation on a familiar theme...

Suns out: Bledsoe
Suns in: Rudy Gay, Jonas Jerebko, Kings 2021 1st, Memphis 2019 1st (protected 1-9 in 2019, 1-6 in 2020, then unprotected), Boston 2018 1st (or 2017)
Why: We get three 1sts for Bledsoe and for taking on the risk that Gay picks up his option but never fully recovers. We give the keys to the tank to Knight/Ulis and presumably draft a PG in the top 3. Maybe Gay picks up his option, our medical staff gets him back to peak shape, and we flip him for something next year. The Kings pick is a crap-shoot; the Memphis pick could end up being good if they fall off once their core ages a couple more years; the Boston pick could either be used on someone we want or packaged with our early 2nd for a slightly better pick, or whatever.

Kings out: Gay, 2021 1st, WCS
Kings in: Bledsoe
Why: Bledsoe is an instant PG upgrade, is friends with Cousins, and is signed for a few more years. Even if they're happy-ish with their PG play right now (Collison and Lawson), both those guys are expiring at the end of the year, and Gay is unlikely to pick up his option in SAC, so making this trade now allows them to use Gay's contract before it's gone. With Cousins recently affirming his desire to re-sign, WCS is part of a glut of centers they don't need as insurance anymore. And the 2021 1st is far enough off that hopefully they're much improved by then and it'll just be a late pick.

Celtics out: Jerebko, Memphis 2019 protected 1st, their own 2018 1st (likely in 20s)
Celtics in: WCS
Why: Ainge has said he's looking for rim protection at this deadline. WCS gives them a super springy C who can contribute now and might grow into a long-term piece. Trading their own 2018 pick and the pick owed to them from Memphis doesn't greatly diminish their stash of assets.

[MrMiyagi]

Variation on a familiar theme...

Suns out: Bledsoe
Suns in: Rudy Gay, Jonas Jerebko, Kings 2021 1st, Memphis 2019 1st (protected 1-9 in 2019, 1-6 in 2020, then unprotected), Boston 2018 1st (or 2017)
Why: We get three 1sts for Bledsoe and for taking on the risk that Gay picks up his option but never fully recovers. We give the keys to the tank to Knight/Ulis and presumably draft a PG in the top 3. Maybe Gay picks up his option, our medical staff gets him back to peak shape, and we flip him for something next year. The Kings pick is a crap-shoot; the Memphis pick could end up being good if they fall off once their core ages a couple more years; the Boston pick could either be used on someone we want or packaged with our early 2nd for a slightly better pick, or whatever.

Kings out: Gay, 2021 1st, WCS
Kings in: Bledsoe
Why: Bledsoe is an instant PG upgrade, is friends with Cousins, and is signed for a few more years. Even if they're happy-ish with their PG play right now (Collison and Lawson), both those guys are expiring at the end of the year, and Gay is unlikely to pick up his option in SAC, so making this trade now allows them to use Gay's contract before it's gone. With Cousins recently affirming his desire to re-sign, WCS is part of a glut of centers they don't need as insurance anymore. And the 2021 1st is far enough off that hopefully they're much improved by then and it'll just be a late pick.

Celtics out: Jerebko, Memphis 2019 protected 1st, their own 2018 1st (likely in 20s)
Celtics in: WCS
Why: Ainge has said he's looking for rim protection at this deadline. WCS gives them a super springy C who can contribute now and might grow into a long-term piece. Trading their own 2018 pick and the pick owed to them from Memphis doesn't greatly diminish their stash of assets.

I think if you trade Bledsoe, you trade him for a high pick (top 10) in this draft to replace him with Fultz/Ball/Smith and grab another top tier player. Just my two cents.

[Walt_Uoob]

Ha and now that I read the full quote from Ainge, it doesn't quite sound like he's talking about a WCS:

“We talked about this before the season started and our biggest weakness is defensive rebounding. Some games we get away with it and our guards get back in and get a lot of rebounds, but that’s been a team focus. But it’s also our greatest strength to play skilled players,” he said. “When we have Kelly Olynyk and Al Horford on the court, and the floor is spread for Isaiah and three-point shooters at our big positions, that’s why [Isaiah is] having such a great year and we’re scoring at such a high clip this season. You can’t just put a rebounder that can’t shoot out on the court because it might provide some help on the rebounding end, because it takes away from our strength on the offensive end.

“We know what our weaknesses are; we’d like rim protection and rebounding. At the same time we do like skilled bigs to play around our guards,” added Ainge."

[Kerrsed]

Not to mention he won a championship at the dawning of "this era" as an old man. The Mavs were a top 5 3-pt shooting team that season. Sure they'd be at the bottom of the pack in today's NBA, but they were playing with spacing, Kidd himself LEADING THE TEAM IN 3-PT ATTEMPTS.

lol, really? You are going to use his 3 point attempts? Why didnt you use his 3 point percentage? Maybe because it was down to 34%. And lets look at Kidds stats that Championship year. 8 Points (36%FG/34%3PT), 8 assists, 4.4 rebounds, and almost 2 steals a game. So lets not act like his Hall-of-fame status was due to his late play, and not due solely to his first 10+ years in the league. If Bledsoe or any Suns PG had that average we would be down his throat, begging the team to dump him. Hell, last season Knight was putting up 20 points (41%FG/34%3PT), 5 assists, 4 rebounds, and around a steal and a half a game (and that was also playing next to another PG). Knight also lead us with an AMAZING 6.8 3-PT ATTEMPTS on a very very slightly better % than Kidd did!

Look, my beef is with Ball. I just dont see a playmaking PG that cant shoot as being a viable option in the league today. He is of the Rubio/Rondo mold, and those 2 are probably the most established Playmaking PG's currently in the league (Besides Wall).

[MrMiyagi]

Man I feel almost alone here on Markkanen and I have no idea why. I'd trade Chriss or Bender for him in a flash and might even trade both of them to make it happen. I think he's going to walk into the NBA and be an impact player almost from the start. There are a couple of players (Fultz and Ball) that might have slightly higher up-side but he has a high ceiling and a very high floor. Worst case scenario, IMO, is a very rich man's Channing Frye. Hopefully, we get him and they talk him into taking some of that muscle off. That way he can get back a little of his quickness and improve his overall athleticism but even at his current weight he's going to be a factor in the League.

I think he's a top 5 player, but it's hard to fit him with Bender/Chriss unless you're convinced Bender can defend 3s and Chriss 4s/5s. I think Dallas grabs him as the heir to Dirk. Carlisle knows how to utilize and hide a shooting big with poor defense.

[Stix]

Just say no to Lonzo Ball.

[Zelaznyrules]

Man I feel almost alone here on Markkanen and I have no idea why. I'd trade Chriss or Bender for him in a flash and might even trade both of them to make it happen. I think he's going to walk into the NBA and be an impact player almost from the start. There are a couple of players (Fultz and Ball) that might have slightly higher up-side but he has a high ceiling and a very high floor. Worst case scenario, IMO, is a very rich man's Channing Frye. Hopefully, we get him and they talk him into taking some of that muscle off. That way he can get back a little of his quickness and improve his overall athleticism but even at his current weight he's going to be a factor in the League.

I think he's a top 5 player, but it's hard to fit him with Bender/Chriss unless you're convinced Bender can defend 3s and Chriss 4s/5s. I think Dallas grabs him as the heir to Dirk. Carlisle knows how to utilize and hide a shooting big with poor defense.

If you had access to Markkanen, Chriss and Bender but could only keep one of them, which one would you choose? I like Bender a lot and have been pleased by the improvement Chriss has shown but I'd be confident with the choice of Lauri.

[MrMiyagi]

Not to mention he won a championship at the dawning of "this era" as an old man. The Mavs were a top 5 3-pt shooting team that season. Sure they'd be at the bottom of the pack in today's NBA, but they were playing with spacing, Kidd himself LEADING THE TEAM IN 3-PT ATTEMPTS.

lol, really? You are going to use his 3 point attempts? Why didnt you use his 3 point percentage? Maybe because it was down to 34%. And lets look at Kidds stats that Championship year. 8 Points (36%FG/34%3PT), 8 assists, 4.4 rebounds, and almost 2 steals a game. So lets not act like his Hall-of-fame status was due to his late play, and not due solely to his first 10+ years in the league. If Bledsoe or any Suns PG had that average we would be down his throat, begging the team to dump him. Hell, last season Knight was putting up 20 points (41%FG/34%3PT), 5 assists, 4 rebounds, and around a steal and a half a game (and that was also playing next to another PG). Knight also lead us with an AMAZING 6.8 3-PT ATTEMPTS on a very very slightly better % than Kidd did!

Look, my beef is with Ball. I just dont see a playmaking PG that cant shoot as being a viable option in the league today. He is of the Rubio/Rondo mold, and those 2 are probably the most established Playmaking PG's currently in the league (Besides Wall).

Are you trying to say that Jason Kidd, who demonstrated late career willingness to alter his game to the new style, wouldn't do that if he were a collegiate athlete coming into today's NBA?

And the attempts was to demonstrate an alteration in style. The majority of his FG attempts were 3s in Dallas, a guy who was used to scoring inside the arc for 13 seasons. You seem to be painting him as an anomaly of an era who wouldn't be capable of adapting play-style when he demonstrated it as an old-timer.

And Ball can shoot. He's shooting very well in fact. You want % to be the deciding factor, Ball is shooting 43% from 3 and 70% from 2. As long as he can knock down an open shot, a feat Rubio has never been able to do, he will be a damn good NBA player.

[AtheJ415]

Not to mention he won a championship at the dawning of "this era" as an old man. The Mavs were a top 5 3-pt shooting team that season. Sure they'd be at the bottom of the pack in today's NBA, but they were playing with spacing, Kidd himself LEADING THE TEAM IN 3-PT ATTEMPTS.

lol, really? You are going to use his 3 point attempts? Why didnt you use his 3 point percentage? Maybe because it was down to 34%. And lets look at Kidds stats that Championship year. 8 Points (36%FG/34%3PT), 8 assists, 4.4 rebounds, and almost 2 steals a game. So lets not act like his Hall-of-fame status was due to his late play, and not due solely to his first 10+ years in the league. If Bledsoe or any Suns PG had that average we would be down his throat, begging the team to dump him. Hell, last season Knight was putting up 20 points (41%FG/34%3PT), 5 assists, 4 rebounds, and around a steal and a half a game (and that was also playing next to another PG). Knight also lead us with an AMAZING 6.8 3-PT ATTEMPTS on a very very slightly better % than Kidd did!

Look, my beef is with Ball. I just dont see a playmaking PG that cant shoot as being a viable option in the league today. He is of the Rubio/Rondo mold, and those 2 are probably the most established Playmaking PG's currently in the league (Besides Wall).

Are you trying to say that Jason Kidd, who demonstrated late career willingness to alter his game to the new style, wouldn't do that if he were a collegiate athlete coming into today's NBA?

And the attempts was to demonstrate an alteration in style. The majority of his FG attempts were 3s in Dallas, a guy who was used to scoring inside the arc for 13 seasons. You seem to be painting him as an anomaly of an era who wouldn't be capable of adapting play-style when he demonstrated it as an old-timer.

And Ball can shoot. He's shooting very well in fact. You want % to be the deciding factor, Ball is shooting 43% from 3 and 70% from 2. As long as he can knock down an open shot, a feat Rubio has never been able to do, he will be a damn good NBA player.

Exactly. Ball doesn't have a pretty shot, but it is a quick release and accurate. He is an offensive dynamo. He can pass really well, elevate well, and shoot. Question is whether he is quick enough (he is quick, but NBA PGs today are more explosive than I have seen from him), can add muscle, and whether he can develop defensively. There's no question to me in the NBA that he will shoot with range and run a team damn well.

The criticism that he can't shoot just isn't true. He shoots quite a bit and hits at a high rate. He's actually much higher on the year than Fultz (but I really attribute this to personnel and coaching since Fultz has to go 1 on 5 most of the time).

[Stix]

Trade deadline predictions:

Barbosa + Tucker to HOU for Brewer + 2017 first

Chandler + Dudley to BOS for Amir Johnson + Tyler Zeller + 2nd rounder

Knight to CHI for Rondo + Future protected 1st (lotto protected)

I can see at least one version of the above taking place in the next week.

Really think we need to rid ourselves of Knight before draft day, has anyone mentioned Rondo yet? Seems logical, and they can buy him out if they want. Although he is a Kentucky Wildcat, and the main reason McD got to where he is now. If anything, he can entertain the team by challenging all comers to a game of connect 4. Anything is better than Knight at them moment, even Rondo.

The other two I can see happening just because they can net us some value for our vets and get us some decent return with a bit of cap space.

[MrMiyagi]

Man I feel almost alone here on Markkanen and I have no idea why. I'd trade Chriss or Bender for him in a flash and might even trade both of them to make it happen. I think he's going to walk into the NBA and be an impact player almost from the start. There are a couple of players (Fultz and Ball) that might have slightly higher up-side but he has a high ceiling and a very high floor. Worst case scenario, IMO, is a very rich man's Channing Frye. Hopefully, we get him and they talk him into taking some of that muscle off. That way he can get back a little of his quickness and improve his overall athleticism but even at his current weight he's going to be a factor in the League.

I think he's a top 5 player, but it's hard to fit him with Bender/Chriss unless you're convinced Bender can defend 3s and Chriss 4s/5s. I think Dallas grabs him as the heir to Dirk. Carlisle knows how to utilize and hide a shooting big with poor defense.

If you had access to Markkanen, Chriss and Bender but could only keep one of them, which one would you choose? I like Bender a lot and have been pleased by the improvement Chriss has shown but I'd be confident with the choice of Lauri.

If they were all in the draft last season, I think I'd be most confident in selecting Markannen, as he would have demonstrated the most skill. But, we have Bender and Chriss and I think there are better additions to those two than Markannen. I would take him if Ball/Jackson/Fultz/Tatum were gone.

[asudevil]

Trade deadline predictions:

Barbosa + Tucker to HOU for Brewer + 2017 first

Chandler + Dudley to BOS for Amir Johnson + Tyler Zeller + 2nd rounder

Knight to CHI for Rondo + Future protected 1st (lotto protected)

I can see at least one version of the above taking place in the next week.

Really think we need to rid ourselves of Knight before draft day, has anyone mentioned Rondo yet? Seems logical, and they can buy him out if they want. Although he is a Kentucky Wildcat, and the main reason McD got to where he is now. If anything, he can entertain the team by challenging all comers to a game of connect 4. Anything is better than Knight at them moment, even Rondo.

The other two I can see happening just because they can net us some value for our vets and get us some decent return with a bit of cap space.

I dont hate 1 and 3.

2 makes little sense. We arent in a position to clear cap space. We arent anywhere near the cap, and both Dudley and Chandler are more valuable then a 2nd rounder.