The Work Horse That is Brandon Ingram

[lake_show]

Questioning Ingram at this point is beyond silly to me... There's just zero merit to the argument right now.
He was classified as a project when we drafted him... He was clearly in need of physical development... And yet he clearly has all the skills and drive that you would want in an elite nba player...
Call me if he comes into camp out of shape or has shown no improvement by Christmas 2017... But in the meantime, go find some perspective and let it rest.

Where are people getting this from?

Don't get me wrong, I agree with most of what you said... But, where are people seeing this "drive that you would want in an elite nba player"? I don't see that. I'm not saying he doesn't have drive... I'm sure he does. I like Ingram. I see him as "potentially" a very good player. I haven't seen "elite" level drive from him though. Truth is he's been mostly passive all season long. Which I think is because of his personality, and not so much because of his drive. He could have an "elite" level skill set though. Given a couple years I think he'll be a great part of this team. "Elite" level drive though? Where are you seeing that?

[Kilroy]

Questioning Ingram at this point is beyond silly to me... There's just zero merit to the argument right now.
He was classified as a project when we drafted him... He was clearly in need of physical development... And yet he clearly has all the skills and drive that you would want in an elite nba player...
Call me if he comes into camp out of shape or has shown no improvement by Christmas 2017... But in the meantime, go find some perspective and let it rest.

So Ingram shouldn't get criticized until Christmas of next year? Let's not act like he didn't go to one of the top programs in the country, and was a standout hence the one and done. I also don't agree with the narrative that all of his problems are due to his size. He actually likes to bump and bang, and he actually shows great balance after receiving the contact on his turn around jump shot. his size has nothing to do with him air balling free throws. I think the project narrative was, to ultimately reach the heights people think he can reach its gong to take some time. But that doesn't give him a pass on his play until he gets there. He was still the number two pick. In the brandon Ingram vs Ben Simmons debate I was team Ingram because of what I thought he could do on offense... Coming straight out of college. Ben Simmons, as most people saw couldn't shoot a lick. But as it stands now I'm not so sure that Ben Simmons wouldn't be out doing Ingram on the offense end(shooting) which is discouraging because that was the thing he was suppose to have over Ben. There's definitely things he can be criticized on as long as it's fair and in context. Randle was ripped, Russell was ripped, and Ingram should be no different.

Criticism is fine... Within reason... But fools are talking about giving up on him...
So no, that's plain ridiculous... Because you don't draft Ingram expecting him to be a starter in the NBA as a rookie... Because a blind man could see he was going to have a tough time playing against grown men in the NBA.

Physical strength effects your ability to get shots off reliably in the NBA...
Simmons was always billed as being more physically ready... Then again he's got what could be a season ending foot injury, at this point... But it's logical that Simmons shot would be more reliable in the pros than Ingrams until he stops growing.

In all honesty, Ingram would probably have spent this season in the D-League if he was drafted by a team like the Spurs. We're getting the opportunity to harshly criticize Ingram largely because we suck... Ingram is playing the second most minutes per game next to Randle, also... That's also a little silly in my opinion... So congrats to Ingram for earning the trust of the Coaching staff... But let's be realistic about what that should look like on the court.

Randle and Russell got ripped... That wasn't always deserved either, but at least they were obviously physically ready for the NBA... Randle was a physical beast, who needed to work on his skills... He's been doing that... Russell was skilled but needed to work on his conditioning and fundamentals... He's been doing that... Both of them has passed the season and a 3rd timeline I set out for Ingram.

[iamworthy]

Questioning Ingram at this point is beyond silly to me... There's just zero merit to the argument right now.
He was classified as a project when we drafted him... He was clearly in need of physical development... And yet he clearly has all the skills and drive that you would want in an elite nba player...
Call me if he comes into camp out of shape or has shown no improvement by Christmas 2017... But in the meantime, go find some perspective and let it rest.

So Ingram shouldn't get criticized until Christmas of next year? Let's not act like he didn't go to one of the top programs in the country, and was a standout hence the one and done. I also don't agree with the narrative that all of his problems are due to his size. He actually likes to bump and bang, and he actually shows great balance after receiving the contact on his turn around jump shot. his size has nothing to do with him air balling free throws. I think the project narrative was, to ultimately reach the heights people think he can reach its gong to take some time. But that doesn't give him a pass on his play until he gets there. He was still the number two pick. In the brandon Ingram vs Ben Simmons debate I was team Ingram because of what I thought he could do on offense... Coming straight out of college. Ben Simmons, as most people saw couldn't shoot a lick. But as it stands now I'm not so sure that Ben Simmons wouldn't be out doing Ingram on the offense end(shooting) which is discouraging because that was the thing he was suppose to have over Ben. There's definitely things he can be criticized on as long as it's fair and in context. Randle was ripped, Russell was ripped, and Ingram should be no different.

Criticism is fine... Within reason... But fools are talking about giving up on him...
So no, that's plain ridiculous... Because you don't draft Ingram expecting him to be a starter in the NBA as a rookie... Because a blind man could see he was going to have a tough time playing against grown men in the NBA.

Physical strength effects your ability to get shots off reliably in the NBA...
Simmons was always billed as being more physically ready... Then again he's got what could be a season ending foot injury, at this point... But it's logical that Simmons shot would be more reliable in the pros than Ingrams until he stops growing.

In all honesty, Ingram would probably have spent this season in the D-League if he was drafted by a team like the Spurs. We're

Randle and Russell got ripped... That wasn't always deserved either, but at least they were obviously physically ready for the NBA... Randle was a physical beast, who needed to work on his skills... He's been doing that... Russell was skilled but needed to work on his conditioning and fundamentals... He's been doing that... Both of them has passed the season and a 3rd timeline I set out for Ingram.

Agree, if people are giving up on him then that's just dumb.

[Kilroy]

My opinion: Ingram's shot isn't falling, but he's playing too much... So his stats are bound to be ugly as hell. But PT is invaluable for him at this point.

So, I'm impressed with his ability to stay on the floor, and his shot will eventually start falling. So all things considered, I think he's doing better than should have been expected.

[Princeinrevolt]

D'angelo Russell is a 6'5 unathletic point guard... if he didn't have a good work ethic, he wouldn't have made it this far... This guy is extremely skillfull, but struggles with his consistency (mostly because he is 20)... There is no reason to think he is not a hard worker, if you give a specific example of what makes him a lazy person, then maybe I will change my mind... But there are none so yeah...

The fact that he hasn't made significant strides from last year to this year is really concerning to me. Especially when we heard all off-season how different he will be this year because he has a coach that he can relate to and that will showcase him more. I'm not ready to call him a bust, but a elite prospect not taking a significant stride in year 2 tends to show a lack of commitment.

If you actually think he hasn't made any significant strides from last year to this year, it is not worth explaining...

[dontforget]

D'angelo Russell is a 6'5 unathletic point guard... if he didn't have a good work ethic, he wouldn't have made it this far... This guy is extremely skillfull, but struggles with his consistency (mostly because he is 20)... There is no reason to think he is not a hard worker, if you give a specific example of what makes him a lazy person, then maybe I will change my mind... But there are none so yeah...

The fact that he hasn't made significant strides from last year to this year is really concerning to me. Especially when we heard all off-season how different he will be this year because he has a coach that he can relate to and that will showcase him more. I'm not ready to call him a bust, but a elite prospect not taking a significant stride in year 2 tends to show a lack of commitment.

If you actually think he hasn't made any significant strides from last year to this year, it is not worth explaining...

Please enlighten me. By most metrics (TS%, PER, TOV%, OWS, DWS, BSPM, VORP) he's either the same player or marginally better. Whether that's due to his knee issue remains to be seen. But I haven't seen significant improvements. He has amazing moments and games, but he had that last year. Its about building on what you did the previous year.

Now, I'm not saying he's a bust and they just dump him, I'm just saying I'm not as confident in him being that franchise play maker as I was last year. How he closes this year will show me more though.

[Landsberger]

My opinion: Ingram's shot isn't falling, but he's playing too much... So his stats are bound to be ugly as hell. But PT is invaluable for him at this point.

So, I'm impressed with his ability to stay on the floor, and his shot will eventually start falling. So all things considered, I think he's doing better than should have been expected.

You know who he reminds me of..... Trevor Ariza in his NY days. There is a similarity in their games and struggles shooting at a reasonable efficiency. Both lanky athletic types (although Ingram is freakishly lanky) that have trouble creating their own offense.

[iamworthy]

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[Kilroy]

My opinion: Ingram's shot isn't falling, but he's playing too much... So his stats are bound to be ugly as hell. But PT is invaluable for him at this point.

So, I'm impressed with his ability to stay on the floor, and his shot will eventually start falling. So all things considered, I think he's doing better than should have been expected.

You know who he reminds me of..... Trevor Ariza in his NY days. There is a similarity in their games and struggles shooting at a reasonable efficiency. Both lanky athletic types (although Ingram is freakishly lanky) that have trouble creating their own offense.

I see the comparison, but lets pray BI is a whole lot better than Ariza... I think it's a pretty safe bet actually, barring injury.

[Landsberger]

My opinion: Ingram's shot isn't falling, but he's playing too much... So his stats are bound to be ugly as hell. But PT is invaluable for him at this point.

So, I'm impressed with his ability to stay on the floor, and his shot will eventually start falling. So all things considered, I think he's doing better than should have been expected.

You know who he reminds me of..... Trevor Ariza in his NY days. There is a similarity in their games and struggles shooting at a reasonable efficiency. Both lanky athletic types (although Ingram is freakishly lanky) that have trouble creating their own offense.

I see the comparison, but lets pray BI is a whole lot better than Ariza... I think it's a pretty safe bet actually, barring injury.

I hope so too. Ingram is not quite as athletic going to the hoop as Ariza but he seems to have a better sense of the game at this early age. He's got a mile to go with his shot and his defense is ahead of his offense. That's where the comparison is most relevant.

[RingsDontLie]

Questioning Ingram at this point is beyond silly to me... There's just zero merit to the argument right now.
He was classified as a project when we drafted him... He was clearly in need of physical development... And yet he clearly has all the skills and drive that you would want in an elite nba player...
Call me if he comes into camp out of shape or has shown no improvement by Christmas 2017... But in the meantime, go find some perspective and let it rest.

So Ingram shouldn't get criticized until Christmas of next year? Let's not act like he didn't go to one of the top programs in the country, and was a standout hence the one and done. I also don't agree with the narrative that all of his problems are due to his size. He actually likes to bump and bang, and he actually shows great balance after receiving the contact on his turn around jump shot. his size has nothing to do with him air balling free throws. I think the project narrative was, to ultimately reach the heights people think he can reach its gong to take some time. But that doesn't give him a pass on his play until he gets there. He was still the number two pick. In the brandon Ingram vs Ben Simmons debate I was team Ingram because of what I thought he could do on offense... Coming straight out of college. Ben Simmons, as most people saw couldn't shoot a lick. But as it stands now I'm not so sure that Ben Simmons wouldn't be out doing Ingram on the offense end(shooting) which is discouraging because that was the thing he was suppose to have over Ben. There's definitely things he can be criticized on as long as it's fair and in context. Randle was ripped, Russell was ripped, and Ingram should be no different.

i like ingram over simmons right now even more knowing ingrams durability and potential. For all we know simmons is injury prone and this 1st injury is the tip of the iceberg.

[ock]

Questioning Ingram at this point is beyond silly to me... There's just zero merit to the argument right now.
He was classified as a project when we drafted him... He was clearly in need of physical development... And yet he clearly has all the skills and drive that you would want in an elite nba player...
Call me if he comes into camp out of shape or has shown no improvement by Christmas 2017... But in the meantime, go find some perspective and let it rest.

So Ingram shouldn't get criticized until Christmas of next year? Let's not act like he didn't go to one of the top programs in the country, and was a standout hence the one and done. I also don't agree with the narrative that all of his problems are due to his size. He actually likes to bump and bang, and he actually shows great balance after receiving the contact on his turn around jump shot. his size has nothing to do with him air balling free throws. I think the project narrative was, to ultimately reach the heights people think he can reach its gong to take some time. But that doesn't give him a pass on his play until he gets there. He was still the number two pick. In the brandon Ingram vs Ben Simmons debate I was team Ingram because of what I thought he could do on offense... Coming straight out of college. Ben Simmons, as most people saw couldn't shoot a lick. But as it stands now I'm not so sure that Ben Simmons wouldn't be out doing Ingram on the offense end(shooting) which is discouraging because that was the thing he was suppose to have over Ben. There's definitely things he can be criticized on as long as it's fair and in context. Randle was ripped, Russell was ripped, and Ingram should be no different.

Actually, yes. I don't know about that exact timepjoint, but it is much too early to give an accurate assessment of the type of player Ingram will be. He DID go to one of the top programs in the country, and I think much of his attitude and demeanor (calm, humble, hardworking, respectful of coaches) is consistent with that. Whether the Duke helped develop that or whether they chose him or vice versa, I am sure Duke would be proud of the way Ingram carries himself. As for his play, he's a skinny 19 y/o kid. Who is playing in a league with grown men in their physical prime. As for comparison to DLo and Randle, they are 21 and 22, respectively. Those two and three years are a huge difference for physical maturity, at that age.

Pretty much everyone knew that physically, BI was not ready for the NBA. Definitely nowhere close to Simmons. (As an aside, I liked Simmons over BI pre-draft, and still do) No college program (not even Duke) would be able to devote the nutritionists, trainers, etc, to maximize BI's steady physical maturity that an NBA team can. But I am also confident that he has the support he needs to physically develop (in a safe manner, not just shoving monster amounts of unhealthy calories down the gullet).

I am not surprised about where BI is. I do marvel at physical beasts like Lebron and Simmons, but they are the exception, not the norm.

He's shown enough flashes of positive things (keeps the ball moving, unselfishness, humility, willingness to work hard) to be optimistic. If he's the same player after a year (* cough, cough, DLo *), then I would be very disappointed.