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Nurturing Russell

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Re: Nurturing Russell 

Post#361 » by Slava » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:03 am

"I did not grow up watching Magic," said Nance. "I got to see him play Hardwood Classic games against my dad in black and white, but I haven't gotten to sit down and watch him play."


"When people talk about how great they were, I believe it, I just didn't get to see it," Nance said. "Kareem [Abdul-Jabbar] is another one who's outside my realm of knowledge. I know what he was, but I have no visual representation of it."

I guess Nance doesn't have the right attitude either then.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2693066-la-lakers-coach-luke-walton-needs-to-invest-more-in-dangelo-russells-future?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-league
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Nurturing Russell 

Post#362 » by Princeinrevolt » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:22 pm

Slava wrote:
"I did not grow up watching Magic," said Nance. "I got to see him play Hardwood Classic games against my dad in black and white, but I haven't gotten to sit down and watch him play."


"When people talk about how great they were, I believe it, I just didn't get to see it," Nance said. "Kareem [Abdul-Jabbar] is another one who's outside my realm of knowledge. I know what he was, but I have no visual representation of it."

I guess Nance doesn't have the right attitude either then.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2693066-la-lakers-coach-luke-walton-needs-to-invest-more-in-dangelo-russells-future?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-league


haha also Magic played in the color tv era, so he is also lying about watching him in black and white...


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Re: Nurturing Russell 

Post#363 » by iamworthy » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:17 am

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Re: Nurturing Russell 

Post#364 » by Danny Darko » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:00 am

Slava wrote:
"I did not grow up watching Magic," said Nance. "I got to see him play Hardwood Classic games against my dad in black and white, but I haven't gotten to sit down and watch him play."


"When people talk about how great they were, I believe it, I just didn't get to see it," Nance said. "Kareem [Abdul-Jabbar] is another one who's outside my realm of knowledge. I know what he was, but I have no visual representation of it."

I guess Nance doesn't have the right attitude either then.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2693066-la-lakers-coach-luke-walton-needs-to-invest-more-in-dangelo-russells-future?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-league


"Obviously, you know everything he was capable of. You see highlights and stuff like that," Nance said.

:kissmybutt:

The attitude issue with Russell is about a lot more than not knowing Magic's game. It's evident in his play, in the body of his interviews, his body language, and persona (including Swaggy-gate) and from the actions and words of two very different coaches, which is too bad, because he clearly organizes the team better than any guard we have. Knowing Magic's game isn't a big deal it's that his visible attitude seems to contradict the statement that he's into it.

And again, I am inclined to think he becomes a pretty good player and I'm not looking to move him. My point is that you don't let him, or Nick young, or JR Smith lead a team and his attitude is not helping his development.
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Re: Nurturing Russell 

Post#365 » by Goudelock » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:23 am

iamworthy wrote:
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Re: Nurturing Russell 

Post#366 » by lake_show » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:35 am

Danny Darko wrote: :kissmybutt:

The attitude issue with Russell is about a lot more than not knowing Magic's game. It's evident in his play, in the body of his interviews, his body language, and persona (including Swaggy-gate) and from the actions and words of two very different coaches which is too bad, because he clearly organizes the team better than any guard we have. Knowing Magic's game isn't a big deal it's that his visible attitude seems to contradict the statement that he's into it.

And again, I am inclined to think he becomes a pretty good player and I'm not looking to move him. My point is that you don't let him, or Nick young, or JR Smith lead a team and his attitude is not helping his development.


Wait a minute... What has Luke said about D'Lo's attitude? I don't think I've ever heard anything from Luke about his attitude. Sure, he's said he wants D'Lo to be more engaged either defensively or offensively, but I haven't heard anything about him having a bad attitude.

Where did you hear this?
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Re: Nurturing Russell 

Post#367 » by iamworthy » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:58 am

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Re: Nurturing Russell 

Post#368 » by Danny Darko » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:06 am

lake_show wrote:
Danny Darko wrote: :kissmybutt:

The attitude issue with Russell is about a lot more than not knowing Magic's game. It's evident in his play, in the body of his interviews, his body language, and persona (including Swaggy-gate) and from the actions and words of two very different coaches which is too bad, because he clearly organizes the team better than any guard we have. Knowing Magic's game isn't a big deal it's that his visible attitude seems to contradict the statement that he's into it.

And again, I am inclined to think he becomes a pretty good player and I'm not looking to move him. My point is that you don't let him, or Nick young, or JR Smith lead a team and his attitude is not helping his development.


Wait a minute... What has Luke said about D'Lo's attitude? I don't think I've ever heard anything from Luke about his attitude. Sure, he's said he wants D'Lo to be more engaged either defensively or offensively, but I haven't heard anything about him having a bad attitude.

Where did you hear this?


Thanks for bolding actions... actions (Luke doesn't play him in the clutch or give him massive minutes exactly like Byron didn't) It seems obvious to me that if you remove the noise and just look at how Byron and Luke play them, that both have treated him fairly similarly. I get that you are officially defending him, but you don't seem to acknowledge the link between sub context and the real world results and behavior of the the parties involved.

Look at the numbers from year 1 to year 2, he's an assist and a half better this year and overall his numbers are the same as his rookie season: http://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3136776/dangelo-russell

So, the argument can be made that he does need to be unleashed for big minutes to get past this stuff, and I don't have any strong counter argument... I'm not even apposed to that, but Luke isn't anti-rookie he's just not willing to play D'Angelo more... why do two very different coaches manage him that way? Probably because all the non verbals and crappy verbals and the behavior caught in Swaggy-gate aren't misleading... his attitude sucks and he isn't earning it yet.
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Re: Nurturing Russell 

Post#369 » by giju11 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:20 am

Russell plays with no sense of urgency...jus watch him bring the ball up the court and play defense as the other point guard...very lackadaisical and no sense of urgency

Absolutely no explosiveness in his game...


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Re: Nurturing Russell 

Post#370 » by lake_show » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:48 am

Danny Darko wrote:
lake_show wrote:
Danny Darko wrote: :kissmybutt:

The attitude issue with Russell is about a lot more than not knowing Magic's game. It's evident in his play, in the body of his interviews, his body language, and persona (including Swaggy-gate) and from the actions and words of two very different coaches which is too bad, because he clearly organizes the team better than any guard we have. Knowing Magic's game isn't a big deal it's that his visible attitude seems to contradict the statement that he's into it.

And again, I am inclined to think he becomes a pretty good player and I'm not looking to move him. My point is that you don't let him, or Nick young, or JR Smith lead a team and his attitude is not helping his development.


Wait a minute... What has Luke said about D'Lo's attitude? I don't think I've ever heard anything from Luke about his attitude. Sure, he's said he wants D'Lo to be more engaged either defensively or offensively, but I haven't heard anything about him having a bad attitude.

Where did you hear this?


Thanks for bolding actions... actions (Luke doesn't play him in the clutch or give him massive minutes exactly like Byron didn't) It seems obvious to me that if you remove the noise and just look at how Byron and Luke play them, that both have treated him fairly similarly. I get that you are officially defending him, but you don't seem to acknowledge the link between sub context and the real world results and behavior of the the parties involved.

Look at the numbers from year 1 to year 2, he's an assist and a half better this year and overall his numbers are the same as his rookie season: http://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3136776/dangelo-russell

So, the argument can be made that he does need to be unleashed for big minutes to get past this stuff, and I don't have any strong counter argument... I'm not even apposed to that, but Luke isn't anti-rookie he's just not willing to play D'Angelo more... why do two very different coaches manage him that way? Probably because all the non verbals and crappy verbals and the behavior caught in Swaggy-gate aren't misleading... his attitude sucks and he isn't earning it yet.


So nothing actual or substantial?... Just you making "links"?

It's funny to me that you think that I wouldn't want to bold actions. Why not? Like I'm trying to get over on you or something Danny. I'm not. There really isn't anything substantial there anyway. If Lou wasn't ball'n out of control the game you're talking about, and D'Lo hadn't played poorly 3 games in a row, after a strecth of 3 or 4 games where he played pretty well and Luke was playing him about 33 minutes a game (more than any other rookie), AND every single other player on the team wasn't averaging almost exactly the same minutes (24 - 28) as D'Angelo... Then yeah, I might be inclined to agree with what you're saying. If Nick Young, Luol Deng, and D'Angelo Russell didnt play the exact same amount of minutes a game I could begin to see what your talking about. Heck, Lou Williams plays less minutes than all those guys, and JC. Lou must really be in the dog house.

Is Luke frustrated with D'Lo. Yeah, possibly. I think that's a lot more likley. A lot of people, including fans, are frustrated with D'Lo and the fact that he's been so inconsistent at times. It's because we've seen what he can do and we just want him to get there already. That's not what you're saying though. You're saying he has a bad "attitude", and you got this conclusion from how much Luke plays him, how he talks in interviews, and "sub context and the real world". Except you keep forgetting to actually use "the real world" when coming up with this stuff. Luke doesn't give anyone substantial minutes, and we've all seen him get extremely frustrated with Ingram too. But... D'Lo plays the same amount of minutes as everyone else... And, he talks slow in interviews... So... Natural conclusion... bad attitude.

Look, I know I'm not gonna convince you of anything. Once you've decided the whole "bad attitude" story, it's just way too juicy to give up. This is not a Luke Walton, and Byron Scott thing though. It's just a Bryon Scott thing. Luke has been nothing but complimentary of D'Lo since he got here. Talking about how him and D'Lo are constantly talking about basketball and what each other sees on the court. Does he also get frustrated with D'Lo at times?... Of course. We all do. There's still no "real world" evidence of Luke ever saying or thinking D'Lo has a bad attitude though. It's just people making this stuff up cause they're frustrated too.
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Re: Nurturing Russell 

Post#371 » by RingsDontLie » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:09 pm

Russell has knee issues that is hurting his game. That's his real issue. Until that issue is solved there isn't much to judge on when a guy isn't healthy to begin with.
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Re: Nurturing Russell 

Post#372 » by iamworthy » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:44 pm

RingsDontLie wrote:Russell has knee issues that is hurting his game. That's his real issue. Until that issue is solved there isn't much to judge on when a guy isn't healthy to begin with.


Yeah, wouldn't be surprised if he has a knee procedure this summer.
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Re: Nurturing Russell 

Post#373 » by Crooked-I » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:10 pm

iamworthy wrote:
RingsDontLie wrote:Russell has knee issues that is hurting his game. That's his real issue. Until that issue is solved there isn't much to judge on when a guy isn't healthy to begin with.


Yeah, wouldn't be surprised if he has a knee procedure this summer.


If that were the case, he should just do it after the all star break. Might as well get it over with now so he can work on his game in the offseason. Start Huertas and tank on.
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Re: Nurturing Russell 

Post#374 » by lake_show » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:20 pm

iamworthy wrote:
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This!... If anyone wants a true unedited breakdown on D'Angelo Russell, this is what you should listening to. I get people have their opinions, but Pete Zaya from Laker Film Room is a basketball genius.

Also, if you're not already listening to, or watching Laker Film Room vidoes or podcasts, you should. You're just falling behind if you're not tbh.
Talking about how bad Julius Randle is:
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Re: Nurturing Russell 

Post#375 » by lake_show » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:47 pm

Here's the youtube version for those who prefer that over soundcloud.

Talking about how bad Julius Randle is:
DEEP3CL wrote:... When dudes know ball we're just going to call out what we see period.
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Re: Nurturing Russell 

Post#376 » by Danny Darko » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:42 pm


So nothing actual or substantial?... Just you making "links"?

It's funny to me that you think that I wouldn't want to bold actions. Why not? Like I'm trying to get over on you or something Danny. I'm not. There really isn't anything substantial there anyway. If Lou wasn't ball'n out of control the game you're talking about, and D'Lo hadn't played poorly 3 games in a row, after a strecth of 3 or 4 games where he played pretty well and Luke was playing him about 33 minutes a game (more than any other rookie), AND every single other player on the team wasn't averaging almost exactly the same minutes (24 - 28) as D'Angelo... Then yeah, I might be inclined to agree with what you're saying. If Nick Young, Luol Deng, and D'Angelo Russell didnt play the exact same amount of minutes a game I could begin to see what your talking about. Heck, Lou Williams plays less minutes than all those guys, and JC. Lou must really be in the dog house.

Is Luke frustrated with D'Lo. Yeah, possibly. I think that's a lot more likley. A lot of people, including fans, are frustrated with D'Lo and the fact that he's been so inconsistent at times. It's because we've seen what he can do and we just want him to get there already. That's not what you're saying though. You're saying he has a bad "attitude", and you got this conclusion from how much Luke plays him, how he talks in interviews, and "sub context and the real world". Except you keep forgetting to actually use "the real world" when coming up with this stuff. Luke doesn't give anyone substantial minutes, and we've all seen him get extremely frustrated with Ingram too. But... D'Lo plays the same amount of minutes as everyone else... And, he talks slow in interviews... So... Natural conclusion... bad attitude.

Look, I know I'm not gonna convince you of anything. Once you've decided the whole "bad attitude" story, it's just way too juicy to give up. This is not a Luke Walton, and Byron Scott thing though. It's just a Bryon Scott thing. Luke has been nothing but complimentary of D'Lo since he got here. Talking about how him and D'Lo are constantly talking about basketball and what each other sees on the court. Does he also get frustrated with D'Lo at times?... Of course. We all do. There's still no "real world" evidence of Luke ever saying or thinking D'Lo has a bad attitude though. It's just people making this stuff up cause they're frustrated too.


I wasn't trying to be a jerk about actions, that was a face value "I'm basing thing on actions" reply.

I do think there is a lot of hard evidence. Regarding the thing that started this convo (interview presence and words) I would say that it's mostly that it links directly to the product we see very well and I do take a lot of stock in those because I have a degree in decoding communication as it relates effective leadership and performance. This is literally not just something I studied for years at a major university, this is something I do at a very high level successfully and professionally. You can literally use math allocations for every phoneme in his speech and come with up with a numeric value that shows he's not a good leader and his tendencies are strongly associated with people who are not effective. (I have not gone that far in fairness because it's huge pain in the ass to do, and once you get good at it, it's much easier to just recognize the pattern).

Also we have direct quotes from Byron calling him entitled and saying he has a poor work ethic.
Laker film room's accurate rant by a guy that has proven to really be able to breakdown players (and he specifically calls out my points in no uncertain terms at 4:45 of the rant here: https://soundcloud.com/user-456873398

Regarding minutes, I agree with you on min/game but I was pointing to who finishes games and there have been several instances where Russell didn't play the 4th at all and others where he gets yanked for the the end in close games:

Russell actually ranks 10th on the Lakers in fourth quarter minutes this year (six per game, and he actually ranks ninth if one excludes Marcelo Huertas, who has only appeared in 20 fourth quarters total).

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2017/2/15/14621838/la-lakers-luke-walton-dangelo-russell-fourth-quarter-minutes-stats-analysis

Of course Luke is being complimentary... he's doing his damndest to get Dlo to be a good player and clearly Byron wasn't seen as a successful mentor in directly calling him out for being lazy and entitled.
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Re: Nurturing Russell 

Post#377 » by Danny Darko » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:14 pm

BUT! I'm rooting for Coaching to turn it around... I have hopes that smooth shot and vision turn into consistent results and this ends up being a success for the org. If we were talking selfish play, i wouldn't root for the guy, but when he's on, the guy is fun to watch, plays better defensive than most of his critics say he's capable of, and let's not forget that Harden had similar struggles and D'Angelo is actually ahead of his stat curve.
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Re: Nurturing Russell 

Post#378 » by dockingsched » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:42 am

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Re: Nurturing Russell 

Post#379 » by iamworthy » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:19 am

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Re: Nurturing Russell 

Post#380 » by iamworthy » Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:22 am

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