Political Roundtable Part XII

[dobrojim]

Read on Twitter

I'm actually disappointed by this.
Would have been an adult in the room and brought in his own team. Guess he saw today's press conference and said... no thanks!

But I'm sure he just consumes too much fake news which has made him a Hillary loving libcuck.

briefly out of lurk mode

No, they wouldn't guarantee him that he would have his own team in place.
That's a huge reason why he turned the job down

source - Wash Post Daily 202 (great weekday summary of news from multiple outlets)

One key factor in Harward's decision to turn down the job was that he couldn't get a guarantee that he could select his own staff.

From CBS News: “Trump told Deputy National Security Adviser K. T. McFarland that she could retain her post, even after the ouster of [Flynn]. Harward refused to keep McFarland as his deputy, and after a day of negotiations over this and other staffing matters, Harward declined to serve as Flynn’s replacement.”

From Politico: “According to an individual familiar with Harward's thinking, the former Navy SEAL … turned down the Trump offer because he did not receive sufficient assurances about … autonomy. Specifically, the source said Harward wanted commitments that the National Security Council would be fully in charge of security matters, not Trump's political advisers. … Trump's decision last month to place his top strategist and former Breitbart CEO Steve Bannon on the (NSC) was roundly criticized as a departure from tradition. … The individual familiar with Harward's thinking, who asked that he not be identified, cited the ‘unwillingness of White House political team to be deferential to the White House national security team’ and ‘unwillingness of [the] White House political team to be malleable’ as driving factors in why Harward demurred.”

back to lurk mode

[sfam]

Trumps behavior during the campaign was bad, but his behavior and actions after the election are a much bigger problem IMO. He has alienated so many people I don't see how he will be able to govern effectively, assuming he is able to stay in office for 4 years.

Just a reminder, we're still in his first month!!! Like literally, there are more than 11 months to go to just get done with his first year!

So that means over 47 months left in his first(and hopefully last) term.

As a close Italian friend cautioned me, Silvio Berlusconi of "Bunga Bunga party" fame got re-elected.

[sfam]

Nate is not a Trump supporter, he's a Trump fanboy. Trump could piss on his head and call it alternative rain, and Nate would probably agree.

In Nate's defense, Trump campaigned on the idea of coming and blowing up Washington. He's made great progress on this in the first month, so why wouldn't his supporters love him?

At some point they may make the connection that a blown up Washington means an incredibly unsafe country and world, and the incapacity to implement policy. But this is a longer term "What did this President actually do" or "Why did the world really blow up again?" type question. In the short term, from the outside it must look pretty awesome.

More than half of the US and the rest of the world looks at that press conference and exclaim they've never seen a sitting President act that way, and are horrified. Trump's supporters look at that performance and say, "Finally!"

Check the box on starting to destroy Washington, which clearly is how America is going to be great again.

[sfam]

Read on Twitter

I'm actually disappointed by this.
Would have been an adult in the room and brought in his own team. Guess he saw today's press conference and said... no thanks!

But I'm sure he just consumes too much fake news which has made him a Hillary loving libcuck.

briefly out of lurk mode

No, they wouldn't guarantee him that he would have his own team in place.
That's a huge reason why he turned the job down

source - Wash Post Daily 202 (great weekday summary of news from multiple outlets)

One key factor in Harward's decision to turn down the job was that he couldn't get a guarantee that he could select his own staff.

From CBS News: “Trump told Deputy National Security Adviser K. T. McFarland that she could retain her post, even after the ouster of [Flynn]. Harward refused to keep McFarland as his deputy, and after a day of negotiations over this and other staffing matters, Harward declined to serve as Flynn’s replacement.”

From Politico: “According to an individual familiar with Harward's thinking, the former Navy SEAL … turned down the Trump offer because he did not receive sufficient assurances about … autonomy. Specifically, the source said Harward wanted commitments that the National Security Council would be fully in charge of security matters, not Trump's political advisers. … Trump's decision last month to place his top strategist and former Breitbart CEO Steve Bannon on the (NSC) was roundly criticized as a departure from tradition. … The individual familiar with Harward's thinking, who asked that he not be identified, cited the ‘unwillingness of White House political team to be deferential to the White House national security team’ and ‘unwillingness of [the] White House political team to be malleable’ as driving factors in why Harward demurred.”

back to lurk mode

Just to point out, aside from the Chief of Staff, the National Security Advisor is the highest position a President can appoint not requiring congressional oversight. It is a cabinet level position - the only one not requiring Congressional approval.

And he turned it down.

This is really a bad sign, especially because he couldn't get his own team in.

Our national security process is fractured. We have COCOMs in the field for the first time ever criticising the chain of command without consequences, and the rest of the world knows it.

This just isn't good whomever you support. I really hope Trump picks an adult who will accept the job, but more likely at this point is a Bannon stooge.

[nate33]

It's like you people weren't tuning in when the election happened.

All of you were so smugly confident that Trump couldn't possibly win. All of the smart people in the media told you that Trump wasn't serious, and you dutifully swallowed it hook line and sinker. Most of you condescendingly told me I was delusional throughout the campaign. I really should go back and dig up the posts. They're hysterical

And then the election happened. Trump won by the biggest electoral majority for a Republican since 1988.

And here we are, just 3 months later, and you are all again telling me I'm delusional. You are condescendingly telling me that the American people don't want a Republican who berates the media in a press conference. You are telling me that Trump is tanking in those ever so reliable polls; and that Republicans in Congress are going to get routed in the midterms.

I'll just say, I'm happy with my track record on Trump predictions. Are you?

[sfam]

Read on Twitter

This is a consequence of a broken national security process. This like never happens in a real administration.

In a real Administration, you have a process to determine the right place to put forward a message (UN, DEFSEC, POTUS, SECSTATE, etc.) that is harmonized with a well established policy. Nothing in what we're seeing looks coordinated in any way. Instead, you have remnants of decades long policy with holes being randomly blown through them, and nothing to replace the hole.

It is simply not OK to have no policy on how to move forward on intractable problems. This is what Obama was criticized for on Syria, but Trump apparently is planning this approach world wide.

[sfam]

It's like you people weren't tuning in when the election happened.

All of you were so smugly confident that Trump couldn't possibly win. All of the smart people in the media told you that Trump wasn't serious, and you dutifully swallowed it hook line and sinker. Most of you condescendingly told me I was delusional throughout the campaign. I really should go back and dig up the posts. They're hysterical

And then the election happened. Trump won by the biggest electoral majority for a Republican since 1988.

And here we are, just 3 months later, and you are all again telling me I'm delusional. You are condescendingly telling me that the American people don't want a Republican who berates the media in a press conference. You are telling me that Trump is tanking in those ever so reliable polls; and that Republicans in Congress are going to get routed in the midterms.

I'll just say, I'm happy with my track record on Trump predictions. Are you?

Touche.

Just a minor point to consider. Its no longer about the voting population. Trumps actions literally now impact the entire world. He doesn't control the rest of the world's responses, but his actions really do matter now in a way they did not in the campaign.

[bealwithit]

It's like you people weren't tuning in when the election happened.

All of you were so smugly confident that Trump couldn't possibly win. All of the smart people in the media told you that Trump wasn't serious, and you dutifully swallowed it hook line and sinker. Most of you condescendingly told me I was delusional throughout the campaign. I really should go back and dig up the posts. They're hysterical

And then the election happened. Trump won by the biggest electoral majority for a Republican since 1988.

And here we are, just 3 months later, and you are all again telling me I'm delusional. You are condescendingly telling me that the American people don't want a Republican who berates the media in a press conference. You are telling me that Trump is tanking in those ever so reliable polls; and that Republicans in Congress are going to get routed in the midterms.

I'll just say, I'm happy with my track record on Trump predictions. Are you?

You, like Trump, can only point to the election for so long. It's already tired at this point. It's almost March and you're still talking about what happened in November. You, like his supporters, are clearly still very high off the win. However, we're a month into the administration now and I think you could at least admit that things, to put it lightly, haven't been smooth. Right?

My point is still valid that Trump's actions could have consequences in the midterms. I never said Republicans would get routed, only that there will definitely be a stronger presence from Dems. They don't have a choice. We can sit here and argue about it further but we really won't know until that time comes. That's all I have left to say about it.

[gtn130]

Nate is not a Trump supporter, he's a Trump fanboy. Trump could piss on his head and call it alternative rain, and Nate would probably agree.

In Nate's defense, Trump campaigned on the idea of coming and blowing up Washington. He's made great progress on this in the first month, so why wouldn't his supporters love him?

At some point they may make the connection that a blown up Washington means an incredibly unsafe country and world, and the incapacity to implement policy. But this is a longer term "What did this President actually do" or "Why did the world really blow up again?" type question. In the short term, from the outside it must look pretty awesome.

More than half of the US and the rest of the world looks at that press conference and exclaim they've never seen a sitting President act that way, and are horrified. Trump's supporters look at that performance and say, "Finally!"

Check the box on starting to destroy Washington, which clearly is how America is going to be great again.

You have to really finesse the wording to conclude that Trump is doing exactly what he said he'd do.

He said he was going to #DrainTheSwamp and has instead lined his cabinet with Goldman Sachs executives and business cronies. We're openly descending into full blown kleptocracy, as Trump has done the inverse of what he said he'd do.

But that ban on lobbying sure sounds neat!

[Illuminaire]

Thanks for de-cloaking to post that, Dobro. That kind of thing is my big issue/concern with the Trump WH. Presidents who surround themselves with yes-men rarely end up making the wisest decisions.

The less cynical might say that Trump was just protecting a promise to the deputy under Flynn, and honestly, that is probably part of it. Trump really does seem to value loyalty a great deal, and tries to reward it. That's not a bad thing. But I'm trying to keep an impartial view of this administration and can't argue with a straight face that said noble motivation is more than a fraction of the reason for that decision.

[sfam]

Nate is not a Trump supporter, he's a Trump fanboy. Trump could piss on his head and call it alternative rain, and Nate would probably agree.

In Nate's defense, Trump campaigned on the idea of coming and blowing up Washington. He's made great progress on this in the first month, so why wouldn't his supporters love him?

At some point they may make the connection that a blown up Washington means an incredibly unsafe country and world, and the incapacity to implement policy. But this is a longer term "What did this President actually do" or "Why did the world really blow up again?" type question. In the short term, from the outside it must look pretty awesome.

More than half of the US and the rest of the world looks at that press conference and exclaim they've never seen a sitting President act that way, and are horrified. Trump's supporters look at that performance and say, "Finally!"

Check the box on starting to destroy Washington, which clearly is how America is going to be great again.

You have to really finesse the wording to conclude that Trump is doing exactly what he said he'd do.

He said he was going to #DrainTheSwamp and has instead lined his cabinet with Goldman Sachs executives and business cronies. We're openly descending into full blown kleptocracy, as Trump has done the inverse of what he said he'd do.

But that ban on lobbying sure sounds neat!

I dunno, Trump was pretty clear that he was going to descend into a full blown kleptocracy. He didn't hide that. He's governing exactly as he promised near as I can tell. This administration is going about as I expected. I expected a catastrophe, and its going according to schedule.

[gtn130]

It's like you people weren't tuning in when the election happened.

All of you were so smugly confident that Trump couldn't possibly win. All of the smart people in the media told you that Trump wasn't serious, and you dutifully swallowed it hook line and sinker. Most of you condescendingly told me I was delusional throughout the campaign. I really should go back and dig up the posts. They're hysterical

And then the election happened. Trump won by the biggest electoral majority for a Republican since 1988.

And here we are, just 3 months later, and you are all again telling me I'm delusional. You are condescendingly telling me that the American people don't want a Republican who berates the media in a press conference. You are telling me that Trump is tanking in those ever so reliable polls; and that Republicans in Congress are going to get routed in the midterms.

I'll just say, I'm happy with my track record on Trump predictions. Are you?

I've said this a few times, but you can't roundly denounce all polls/media you don't like because some of them were wrong about the election. 538 gave Hillary very small lead by election night, and there was a high amount of uncertainty that was noted throughout the process.

There was a point when Trump was in fact way behind. He caught up because of Comey + Wikileaks, and 538 did factor those things into their models.

Your entire interpretation of the election is revisionist history.

[gtn130]

In Nate's defense, Trump campaigned on the idea of coming and blowing up Washington. He's made great progress on this in the first month, so why wouldn't his supporters love him?

At some point they may make the connection that a blown up Washington means an incredibly unsafe country and world, and the incapacity to implement policy. But this is a longer term "What did this President actually do" or "Why did the world really blow up again?" type question. In the short term, from the outside it must look pretty awesome.

More than half of the US and the rest of the world looks at that press conference and exclaim they've never seen a sitting President act that way, and are horrified. Trump's supporters look at that performance and say, "Finally!"

Check the box on starting to destroy Washington, which clearly is how America is going to be great again.

You have to really finesse the wording to conclude that Trump is doing exactly what he said he'd do.

He said he was going to #DrainTheSwamp and has instead lined his cabinet with Goldman Sachs executives and business cronies. We're openly descending into full blown kleptocracy, as Trump has done the inverse of what he said he'd do.

But that ban on lobbying sure sounds neat!

I dunno, Trump was pretty clear that he was going to descend into a full blown kleptocracy. He didn't hide that. He's governing exactly as he promised near as I can tell. This administration is going about as I expected. I expected a catastrophe, and its going according to schedule.

Do you think the average Trump supporter believed they were voting for Trump and his cronies personally enriching themselves at the expense of the tax payer? "Running the government like a business" isn't the same thing. #DrainTheSwamp was intended to signal the removal of corrupt lobbyists and politicians from congress.

[Wizardspride]

It's like you people weren't tuning in when the election happened.

All of you were so smugly confident that Trump couldn't possibly win. All of the smart people in the media told you that Trump wasn't serious, and you dutifully swallowed it hook line and sinker. Most of you condescendingly told me I was delusional throughout the campaign. I really should go back and dig up the posts. They're hysterical

And then the election happened. Trump won by the biggest electoral majority for a Republican since 1988.

And here we are, just 3 months later, and you are all again telling me I'm delusional. You are condescendingly telling me that the American people don't want a Republican who berates the media in a press conference. You are telling me that Trump is tanking in those ever so reliable polls; and that Republicans in Congress are going to get routed in the midterms.

I'll just say, I'm happy with my track record on Trump predictions. Are you?

Dude, you're a trip.

Not only did you not predict Trump was going to win, you practically vanished for a month and half when it looked like he was going to get his *** kicked.

[gtn130]

It's like you people weren't tuning in when the election happened.

All of you were so smugly confident that Trump couldn't possibly win. All of the smart people in the media told you that Trump wasn't serious, and you dutifully swallowed it hook line and sinker. Most of you condescendingly told me I was delusional throughout the campaign. I really should go back and dig up the posts. They're hysterical

And then the election happened. Trump won by the biggest electoral majority for a Republican since 1988.

And here we are, just 3 months later, and you are all again telling me I'm delusional. You are condescendingly telling me that the American people don't want a Republican who berates the media in a press conference. You are telling me that Trump is tanking in those ever so reliable polls; and that Republicans in Congress are going to get routed in the midterms.

I'll just say, I'm happy with my track record on Trump predictions. Are you?

The majority of Americans do feel this way, though. Trump lost the popular vote. That's an indisputable fact. 90+% of approval polls show Trump's ratings in the dumpster.

Trump does not have a popular mandate

[DCZards]

It's like you people weren't tuning in when the election happened.

All of you were so smugly confident that Trump couldn't possibly win. All of the smart people in the media told you that Trump wasn't serious, and you dutifully swallowed it hook line and sinker. Most of you condescendingly told me I was delusional throughout the campaign. I really should go back and dig up the posts. They're hysterical

And then the election happened. Trump won by the biggest electoral majority for a Republican since 1988.

And here we are, just 3 months later, and you are all again telling me I'm delusional. You are condescendingly telling me that the American people don't want a Republican who berates the media in a press conference. You are telling me that Trump is tanking in those ever so reliable polls; and that Republicans in Congress are going to get routed in the midterms.

I'll just say, I'm happy with my track record on Trump predictions. Are you?

I'll be the first to admit that I'm not happy with at least one of my predictions. I predicted that Trump would mature and act presidential once he was elected. Well, I was wrong. He's still the liar and bully that he was as a candidate.

[gtn130]

It's like you people weren't tuning in when the election happened.

All of you were so smugly confident that Trump couldn't possibly win. All of the smart people in the media told you that Trump wasn't serious, and you dutifully swallowed it hook line and sinker. Most of you condescendingly told me I was delusional throughout the campaign. I really should go back and dig up the posts. They're hysterical

And then the election happened. Trump won by the biggest electoral majority for a Republican since 1988.

And here we are, just 3 months later, and you are all again telling me I'm delusional. You are condescendingly telling me that the American people don't want a Republican who berates the media in a press conference. You are telling me that Trump is tanking in those ever so reliable polls; and that Republicans in Congress are going to get routed in the midterms.

I'll just say, I'm happy with my track record on Trump predictions. Are you?

Dude, you're a trip.

Not only did you not predict Trump was going to win, you practically vanished for a month and half when it looked like he was going to get his *** kicked.

lol I forgot about that. I remember asking in thread what happened to Nate when Trump's numbers were nose diving.

[Wizardspride]

It's like you people weren't tuning in when the election happened.

All of you were so smugly confident that Trump couldn't possibly win. All of the smart people in the media told you that Trump wasn't serious, and you dutifully swallowed it hook line and sinker. Most of you condescendingly told me I was delusional throughout the campaign. I really should go back and dig up the posts. They're hysterical

And then the election happened. Trump won by the biggest electoral majority for a Republican since 1988.

And here we are, just 3 months later, and you are all again telling me I'm delusional. You are condescendingly telling me that the American people don't want a Republican who berates the media in a press conference. You are telling me that Trump is tanking in those ever so reliable polls; and that Republicans in Congress are going to get routed in the midterms.

I'll just say, I'm happy with my track record on Trump predictions. Are you?

I've said this a few times, but you can't roundly denounce all polls/media you don't like because some of them were wrong about the election. 538 gave Hillary very small lead by election night, and there was a high amount of uncertainty that was noted throughout the process.

There was a point when Trump was in fact way behind. He caught up because of Comey + Wikileaks, and 538 did factor those things into their models.

Your entire interpretation of the election is revisionist history.

Nate has a history with polls.

During the 2012 campaign he swore up and down the polls that had Obama in the lead were skewed etc.

I've just come to the conclusion that anything that clashes with his world view must be some dastardly plot by the "lame stream media".

[tontoz]

Looking back at my Trump predictions I feel like a did a great job......... as a contrarian indicator.

[nate33]

It's like you people weren't tuning in when the election happened.

All of you were so smugly confident that Trump couldn't possibly win. All of the smart people in the media told you that Trump wasn't serious, and you dutifully swallowed it hook line and sinker. Most of you condescendingly told me I was delusional throughout the campaign. I really should go back and dig up the posts. They're hysterical

And then the election happened. Trump won by the biggest electoral majority for a Republican since 1988.

And here we are, just 3 months later, and you are all again telling me I'm delusional. You are condescendingly telling me that the American people don't want a Republican who berates the media in a press conference. You are telling me that Trump is tanking in those ever so reliable polls; and that Republicans in Congress are going to get routed in the midterms.

I'll just say, I'm happy with my track record on Trump predictions. Are you?

I've said this a few times, but you can't roundly denounce all polls/media you don't like because some of them were wrong about the election. 538 gave Hillary very small lead by election night, and there was a high amount of uncertainty that was noted throughout the process.

There was a point when Trump was in fact way behind. He caught up because of Comey + Wikileaks, and 538 did factor those things into their models.

Your entire interpretation of the election is revisionist history.

BS. I agree that Nate Silver changed his tune on election night, but he was the only one, and he wasn't exactly vocal about it, and he included plenty of caveats. But I'm not referring solely to the 12 hours preceding the election. I'm referring to the 6 months leading up to the election. My point is that you and others that share your opinion are in a bubble. You are so convinced that Trump is universally loathed that you consider me to be delusional for thinking otherwise. And I'm telling you that you are wrong now just as you were wrong for the 6 months prior to the election.