Poll/Discussion: Would you trade Middleton for the Nets Pick?

[blazza18]

Really surprised by how extremely high people are on Middleton.

[Pachinko_]

I think a lot of you guys are desperate to take as many decisions as possible out of your team's hands and put them in the lottery instead. It's sad and I don't blame you.

[Nowak008]

That's not even true.

The Spurs don't have a PG in the all star game (and Manu and Tony Parker and no longer anywhere near elite), and while Harden is a guard and the primary ball handler, Beverley defends PGs on the Rockets. The Cavs have Lebron and would still be the best team in the east with Malcolm Brogdon as their PG, just like the Heat were the best team in the NBA for years with Mario Chalmers as their PG.

This whole argument would have more weight if these elite PGs were similar style players, but we're talking about guys who are as different as CP3, Isaiah Thomas, Harden, Lowry, and Curry.

It is true!

Every team that has home court advantage right now in the playoffs, besides the Spurs, has an all star PG. Really important to have a elite lead guard who can create for offense for others and make big shots when the game is on the line.

Plus I really think you need to have 2 hall of fame caliber guys on your team to win a championship - Mid is a very good player but he isn't that type of guy. Dealing Mid and Monroe for the pick gets you two top 8 picks in a loaded draft. With the Jabari injury we have all the cover in the world to take a step back next season and then come back strong when the arena opens.

[AussieBuck]

Really surprised by how extremely high people are on Middleton.

I think he's a guy who gets significantly more valuable playing off the superstar version of Giannis. The pro-trade argument is pretty strong though, especially as it seems to be the path more likely to end in Kidd getting canned.

[xTitan]

This goes to actually building a team, Middleton fits perfectly with Giannis, many of you think getting a bunch off talented kids is all that matters regardless of fit....don't know enough about Fulz....if he is selfless, can play D and shoot I'd do it.....anything less, than no...is fulz better than Ball? I guess I don't even know which teenager is the best.

[humanrefutation]

Really surprised by how extremely high people are on Middleton.

I think he's a guy who gets significantly more valuable playing off the superstar version of Giannis. The pro-trade argument is pretty strong though, especially as it seems to be the path more likely to end in Kidd getting canned.

I think the best argument for the pro-trade side is the upside argument.

A healthy Middleton l probably peaks as a borderline All-Star and elite 3&D wing who is a step below Klay Thompson on the offensive end but more physical on the defensive end. A good second star, a great third star.

But the upside for a Fultz, Ball, or DSJ is higher than that.

If you're willing to accept the risk of a draftee not panning out and/or Middleton ending up better, and are willing to accept taking a step back for a bigger leap in a couple years, I won't argue it too much. I can respect that perspective.

I don't know if I agree with it, though.

[AussieBuck]

Really surprised by how extremely high people are on Middleton.

I think he's a guy who gets significantly more valuable playing off the superstar version of Giannis. The pro-trade argument is pretty strong though, especially as it seems to be the path more likely to end in Kidd getting canned.

I think the best argument for the pro-trade side is the upside argument.

A healthy Middleton l probably peaks as a borderline All-Star and elite 3&D wing who is a step below Klay Thompson on the offensive end but more physical on the defensive end. A good second star, a great third star.

But the upside for a Fultz, Ball, or DSJ is higher than that.

If you're willing to accept the risk of a draftee not panning out and/or Middleton ending up better, and are willing to accept taking a step back for a bigger leap in a couple years, I won't argue it too much. I can respect that perspective.

I don't know if I agree with it, though.

I don't follow the draft very closely. If it looks like there's 4 top quality guys there it would be pretty tempting.

[jmart762]

I think contract length is the biggest variable not being discussed here. I don't think Khris fits our window now. He's gonna opt out in 2 years, and if he doesn't that means he's injured/regressed and we are in trouble and not close to winning a championship whatsoever. So in 2 years, we're gonna have to resign him or he might leave anyways. I don't think we should be assuming we can retain him. If we are assuming he's a fantastic third best player in a contending core, or an adequate second fiddle, he's gonna get a max contract. If we keep Khris, what's the likelihood that we add another core-3 player through the draft (mid-high lottos) or free agency (max contract)? It comes down to if we think we can compete with other organizations for another top-tier max contract type player in free agency to get our core-3. I don't want to rely on having to not only retain Khris but also add another player of his capability through free agency when we're gonna have to compete with the Spurs, Celtics, Warriors, and whoever else climbs the ranks in the next 2 years with their own young talent. I don't think we can add that level of player in this coming free agency given the state of our team, so it's up to doing it two years from now.

The Jabari injury means we have to handle our assets nearly perfect to compete in the next 4 years, let alone 2, which will be near impossible with Lebron still around. Our hand has been dealt for us. I'd rather realize Khris' value as a great player on a great contract and turn that into a likely piece that fits the 4 year window instead of trying to pull something ridiculous off to compete in the next 2.

I mean, isn't there a chance we could trade Khris and resign him after he's opts out anyways?

Realistically if we pull this trade going into 2019 we likely have this core:
Giannis
2017 top-4 pick (Fultz, Ball, DSJ)
2017 top-8 pick (Jackson, Tatum, Monk, Issac)
2018 1st rounder (hard to say where we end up next year w/o Middleton and rookies, probably 12-22 slot)
Thon
Brogdon
Cap Space (hopefully towards 1 max contract type player, i.e. Khris "eat your cake and have it too" Middleton)
Optional: 70-95% of 2016 Jabari?

I say throw in Monroe (maybe to a third team) to get this done.
Then, look at absorbing some salaries for 2018 to get another pick or future asset, and let's reload for 2019.

[Pachinko_]

One question. Thon Maker was being recruited by Kansas, UNLV, Arizona etc.
In hindsight the way he plays this year in the NBA, what kind of numbers would he put up against college competition? How many 3's from a shorter distance, how many blocks, how much hype would he get?
And where would he land in this year's draft? Top 5? Top 3?

Because we already have that player, he's here.

[LuessiT]

One question. Thon Maker was being recruited by Kansas, UNLV, Arizona etc.
In hindsight the way he plays this year in the NBA, what kind of numbers would he put up against college competition? How many 3's from a shorter distance, how many blocks, how much hype would he get?
And where would he land in this year's draft? Top 5? Top 3?

Because we already have that player, he's here.

Don't think he sniffs lottery. He'd be banging in the post and look awful, probably wouldn't come out.

[Baddy Chuck]

One question. Thon Maker was being recruited by Kansas, UNLV, Arizona etc.
In hindsight the way he plays this year in the NBA, what kind of numbers would he put up against college competition? How many 3's from a shorter distance, how many blocks, how much hype would he get?
And where would he land in this year's draft? Top 5? Top 3?

Because we already have that player, he's here.

Probably would be ruled ineligible and forced to sit out the year.

[Pachinko_]

Don't think he sniffs lottery. He'd be banging in the post and look awful, probably wouldn't come out.

so we're saying that in the NBA he excites people, he's talked about in TV shows, they ask Giannis about him, the whole team is raving about him, however in the more difficult NCAA he would underwhelm and be exposed as a low level talent who doesn't sniff lottery.

[Pachinko_]

Probably would be ruled ineligible and forced to sit out the year.

it was a hypothetical question about basketball though, not about NCAA bureaucracy.

[ampd]

That's not even true.

The Spurs don't have a PG in the all star game (and Manu and Tony Parker and no longer anywhere near elite), and while Harden is a guard and the primary ball handler, Beverley defends PGs on the Rockets. The Cavs have Lebron and would still be the best team in the east with Malcolm Brogdon as their PG, just like the Heat were the best team in the NBA for years with Mario Chalmers as their PG.

This whole argument would have more weight if these elite PGs were similar style players, but we're talking about guys who are as different as CP3, Isaiah Thomas, Harden, Lowry, and Curry.

It is true!

Every team that has home court advantage right now in the playoffs, besides the Spurs, has an all star PG. Really important to have a elite lead guard who can create for offense for others and make big shots when the game is on the line.

Plus I really think you need to have 2 hall of fame caliber guys on your team to win a championship - Mid is a very good player but he isn't that type of guy. Dealing Mid and Monroe for the pick gets you two top 8 picks in a loaded draft. With the Jabari injury we have all the cover in the world to take a step back next season and then come back strong when the arena opens.

If Harden is a PG, so is Giannis, therefore we have an all star PG too.

[LuessiT]

Don't think he sniffs lottery. He'd be banging in the post and look awful, probably wouldn't come out.

so we're saying that in the NBA he excites people, he's talked about in TV shows, they ask Giannis about him, the whole team is raving about him, however in the more difficult NCAA he would underwhelm and be exposed as a low level talent who doesn't sniff lottery.

Nah I'm saying a college coach would most likely miss-use him. But he's a borderline lottery talent imo.

[Pachinko_]

Nah I'm saying a college coach would most likely miss-use him. But he's a borderline lottery talent imo.

aw gotcha now, sorry
Yeah this is a possibility...

[wichmae]

We had the chance to trade Middleton to Boston in the offseason and we passed on doing it. I think this ship has sailed.

[MilHammer]

Essentially it boils down to

A. Do you believe that Brog/Parker/Thon and any other future picks can become that second star (which is super debatable) or collectively fill that void?
If not, do you believe that Midds is that guy himself?

If yes to either, then you probably elect to keep Middleton. If you dont buy either of those two points, do you then

B. Believe the risk of trading Midds is worth the possible reward of landing that second blue chip prospect? And is that person there in this years draft, within the top 3ish range?

Personally, I think Midds is a great third piece on a truly elite team. I think Brog and Thon both become very good players, but don't push the needle enough to compete with the likes of the Warriors and other super teams. I also think Giannis stays, even if we trade Midds. For those reasons alone, I think you have to take that gamble on the pick.

[Jez2983]

Nah I'm saying a college coach would most likely miss-use him. But he's a borderline lottery talent imo.

aw gotcha now, sorry
Yeah this is a possibility...

Yeah I dunno. I actually reckon with his ball handling and shooting he could have looked really good.

Another non-huge NCAA follower, but are there that many massive guys that would throw him around?

[jmart762]

Essentially it boils down to

A. Do you believe that Brog/Parker/Thon and any other future picks can collectively fill that void or become that second star themselves? (which is super debateable)
Or do you believe that Midds is that guy himself?

If yes to either, then you probably elect to keep Middleton. If you dont buy either of those two points, do you then

B. Believe the risk of trading Midds is worth the possible reward of landing that second blue chip prospect? And is that person there in this years draft, within the top 3ish range?

Personally, I think Midds is a great third piece on a truly elite team. I think Brog and Thon both become very good players, but don't push the needle enough to compete with the likes of the Warriors and other super teams. I also think Giannis stays, even if we trade Midds. For those reasons alone, I think you have to take that gamble on the pick.

I think Midds is that guy, like you do, but I don't think we're in position to compete with him on this contract, and we could lose him for nothing. I think there's an outside chance one of B/P/T makes that leap as well.

Having said that, I don't think it's wise to place your chances of success on those things happening.