Porzingis Unicorn #3 Thread

[ny-n-md]

if guys don't want to consider that he's younger and putting up relatively similar stats than there really isn't anything to argue about. facts are facts. some people aren't going to let context get in the way of their opinions.

So stats tell the whole story? There's more to evaluating impact players have on the game than stats. I just think it's slighting Patrick Ewing to compare KP as fairly even at the start of their careers. I also think it's setting KP up to fail. I love the kid, but I'm going to let him grow into whatever type of player he will become.

you're right, there's more to evaluating a player than just stats. like for instance, age, which you seem to keep forgetting within the context of this because it goes against whatever argument you're trying to make.

You are moving the goal posts with the age argument. The first argument was about first two years in the league. Then you switch it up to age. I said it's irrelevant because they are in the league for two years regardless. Then you try to make it about him being better than Ewing because he averaged 16 and 10. KP has never averaged 10 boards. Ewing was such a beast in college that teams were desperate to draft him. They had to use the lottery system to make it fair for teams to have a chance. When we drafted him, Debuscherre couldn't contain himself.

The argument about Ewing not having to play with a ball hog is junk. Alphas demand the ball and shine regardless who their teammates are. Ewing was aggressive and demanding. KP has not shown that fire yet.

[Marty McFly]

So stats tell the whole story? There's more to evaluating impact players have on the game than stats. I just think it's slighting Patrick Ewing to compare KP as fairly even at the start of their careers. I also think it's setting KP up to fail. I love the kid, but I'm going to let him grow into whatever type of player he will become.

you're right, there's more to evaluating a player than just stats. like for instance, age, which you seem to keep forgetting within the context of this because it goes against whatever argument you're trying to make.

You are moving the goal posts with the age argument. The first argument was about first two years in the league. Then you switch it up to age. I said it's irrelevant because they are in the league for two years regardless. Then you try to make it about him being better than Ewing because he averaged 16 and 10. KP has never averaged 10 boards. Ewing was such a beast in college that teams were desperate to draft him. They had to use the lottery system to make it fair for teams to have a chance. When we drafted him, Debuscherre couldn't contain himself.

The argument about Ewing not having to play with a ball hog is junk. Alphas demand the ball and shine regardless who their teammates are. Ewing was aggressive and demanding. KP has not shown that fire yet.

i'm not moving ****. it's the same argument i've been making since i jumped into this discussion. you obviously have reading comprehension issues so go back and read it again. you yourself said there's more to evaluating players than stats, is age not one of those things? cause you'd be the only one making the argument.

also, i don't need the history lesson on pat. you're not talking to some youngin who doesn't know his knick history but thanks.

[ChaosHamster]

Ewing never averaged under 20 and 8 during his first 13 seasons. This is not even counting his shot blocking and steals per game, which are better than KP's. I still hold to the idea that dominant players are usually evident at the lower levels which then translates to the NBA level. KP has never carried a team or been the alpha. This is much harder than it appears. Slow down and respect the greatness of players before dismissing it for the latest newest shiny toy.

To be fair Ewings first and second season he was 23 and 24 years old..

When he was 21, he was averaging 16 & 10 in college.

sooo

Spoiler:

KP > Ewing

Since you are only a Knick Fan cause of KP....Umm No. FOH.

Why you started to be a Knicks fan?

[IllmaticHandler]

To be fair Ewings first and second season he was 23 and 24 years old..

When he was 21, he was averaging 16 & 10 in college.

sooo

Spoiler:

KP > Ewing

Since you are only a Knick Fan cause of KP....Umm No. FOH.

Why you started to be a Knicks fan?

Cause I am a NY'er born and raised. I did not become a knick fan because of any player. If KP was not a Knick, you would not even be here. If that dude was a Pelican you would be on they board Jocking him. So again FOH. Cant even take you serious.

[ny-n-md]

you're right, there's more to evaluating a player than just stats. like for instance, age, which you seem to keep forgetting within the context of this because it goes against whatever argument you're trying to make.

You are moving the goal posts with the age argument. The first argument was about first two years in the league. Then you switch it up to age. I said it's irrelevant because they are in the league for two years regardless. Then you try to make it about him being better than Ewing because he averaged 16 and 10. KP has never averaged 10 boards. Ewing was such a beast in college that teams were desperate to draft him. They had to use the lottery system to make it fair for teams to have a chance. When we drafted him, Debuscherre couldn't contain himself.

The argument about Ewing not having to play with a ball hog is junk. Alphas demand the ball and shine regardless who their teammates are. Ewing was aggressive and demanding. KP has not shown that fire yet.

i'm not moving ****. it's the same argument i've been making since i jumped into this discussion. you obviously have reading comprehension issues so go back and read it again. you yourself said there's more to evaluating players than stats, is age not one of those things? cause you'd be the only one making the argument.

also, i don't need the history lesson on pat. you're not talking to some youngin who doesn't know his knick history but thanks.

Point taken, you joined the argument midstream. My post is directed at the argument as a whole even though I quoted you. Age is a factor but you don't get a pass when career games are being recorded. They count. Right now we have no idea how his numbers will look in two years. Have we not seen players come on the scene and appear to be headed towards stardom only to regress and be forgotten? Once the book is out and adjustments are made some players never achieve what the hype suggested. We are assuming a lot about KP. I'm saying Patrick Ewing's demeanor would not be as a passive as KP has been. We are comparing him to arguably the greatest Knick of all time. This is where I preach caution. We will turn on this kid so fast it's ridiculous. Let him grow into what type of player he will become. Does anybody truly believe he is comparable to Ewing? Age or no age? He displays the same dominance the Hoya Destoyer displayed?

[drekwins]

Ewing never averaged under 20 and 8 during his first 13 seasons. This is not even counting his shot blocking and steals per game, which are better than KP's. I still hold to the idea that dominant players are usually evident at the lower levels which then translates to the NBA level. KP has never carried a team or been the alpha. This is much harder than it appears. Slow down and respect the greatness of players before dismissing it for the latest newest shiny toy.

To be fair Ewings first and second season he was 23 and 24 years old..

When he was 21, he was averaging 16 & 10 in college.

sooo

Spoiler:

KP > Ewing

I don't like to say this to people but you are clearly young, stupid or don't know basketball. Back then, College was much more competitive. Ewing brought Georgetown to 3 straight National Championship games. He did this while enduring crazy levels of hostility and racism from every opposing crowd. Not only was he one of the best on the offensive end, he was THE BEST on the defensive end.

From a very young age, Ewing was physical and ELITE on both ends of the floor. KP has a lot of gaping holes in his game that Ewing didn't have. He was a clear cut elite 1st option on offense and an elite defensive anchor. Your statement saying that KP is better is just asinine. Please be more careful with your assertions.

[IllmaticHandler]

You are moving the goal posts with the age argument. The first argument was about first two years in the league. Then you switch it up to age. I said it's irrelevant because they are in the league for two years regardless. Then you try to make it about him being better than Ewing because he averaged 16 and 10. KP has never averaged 10 boards. Ewing was such a beast in college that teams were desperate to draft him. They had to use the lottery system to make it fair for teams to have a chance. When we drafted him, Debuscherre couldn't contain himself.

The argument about Ewing not having to play with a ball hog is junk. Alphas demand the ball and shine regardless who their teammates are. Ewing was aggressive and demanding. KP has not shown that fire yet.

i'm not moving ****. it's the same argument i've been making since i jumped into this discussion. you obviously have reading comprehension issues so go back and read it again. you yourself said there's more to evaluating players than stats, is age not one of those things? cause you'd be the only one making the argument.

also, i don't need the history lesson on pat. you're not talking to some youngin who doesn't know his knick history but thanks.

Point taken, you joined the argument midstream. My post is directed at the argument as a whole even though I quoted you. Age is a factor but you don't get a pass when career games are being recorded. They count. Right now we have no idea how his numbers will look in two years. Have we not seen players come on the scene and appear to be headed towards stardom only to regress and be forgotten? Once the book is out and adjustments are made some players never achieve what the hype suggested. We are assuming a lot about KP. I'm saying Patrick Ewing's demeanor would not be as a passive as KP has been. We are comparing him to arguably the greatest Knick of all time. This is where I preach caution. We will turn on this kid so fast it's ridiculous. Let him grow into what type of player he will become. Does anybody truly believe he is comparable to Ewing? Age or no age? He displays the same dominance the Hoya Destoyer displayed?

Me Personally I would not even keep defending your argument. Dudes Saying KP> Ewing are bugging. Imagine KP first two years in Ewings NBA


If we are at the Point where fans think KP is better than Ewing. Then Shaq better watch out.

[ChaosHamster]

Ewing never averaged under 20 and 8 during his first 13 seasons. This is not even counting his shot blocking and steals per game, which are better than KP's. I still hold to the idea that dominant players are usually evident at the lower levels which then translates to the NBA level. KP has never carried a team or been the alpha. This is much harder than it appears. Slow down and respect the greatness of players before dismissing it for the latest newest shiny toy.

To be fair Ewings first and second season he was 23 and 24 years old..

When he was 21, he was averaging 16 & 10 in college.

sooo

Spoiler:

KP > Ewing

I don't like to say this to people but you are clearly young, stupid or don't know basketball. Back then, College was much more competitive. Ewing brought Georgetown to 3 straight National Championship games. He did this while enduring crazy levels of hostility and racism from every opposing crowd. Not only was he one of the best on the offensive end, he was THE BEST on the defensive end.

From a very young age, Ewing was physical and ELITE on both ends of the floor. KP has a lot of gaping holes in his game that Ewing didn't have. He was a clear cut elite 1st option on offense and an elite defensive anchor. Your statement saying that KP is better is just asinine. Please be more careful with your assertions.

Well, I didn't thought someone would think I'am being serious..

[IllmaticHandler]

To be fair Ewings first and second season he was 23 and 24 years old..

When he was 21, he was averaging 16 & 10 in college.

sooo

Spoiler:

KP > Ewing

I don't like to say this to people but you are clearly young, stupid or don't know basketball. Back then, College was much more competitive. Ewing brought Georgetown to 3 straight National Championship games. He did this while enduring crazy levels of hostility and racism from every opposing crowd. Not only was he one of the best on the offensive end, he was THE BEST on the defensive end.

From a very young age, Ewing was physical and ELITE on both ends of the floor. KP has a lot of gaping holes in his game that Ewing didn't have. He was a clear cut elite 1st option on offense and an elite defensive anchor. Your statement saying that KP is better is just asinine. Please be more careful with your assertions.

Well, I didn't thought someone would think I'am being serious..

Sure you did. You got a Bunch of And 1's agreeing with you.

[drekwins]

you're right, there's more to evaluating a player than just stats. like for instance, age, which you seem to keep forgetting within the context of this because it goes against whatever argument you're trying to make.

You are moving the goal posts with the age argument. The first argument was about first two years in the league. Then you switch it up to age. I said it's irrelevant because they are in the league for two years regardless. Then you try to make it about him being better than Ewing because he averaged 16 and 10. KP has never averaged 10 boards. Ewing was such a beast in college that teams were desperate to draft him. They had to use the lottery system to make it fair for teams to have a chance. When we drafted him, Debuscherre couldn't contain himself.

The argument about Ewing not having to play with a ball hog is junk. Alphas demand the ball and shine regardless who their teammates are. Ewing was aggressive and demanding. KP has not shown that fire yet.

i'm not moving ****. it's the same argument i've been making since i jumped into this discussion. you obviously have reading comprehension issues so go back and read it again. you yourself said there's more to evaluating players than stats, is age not one of those things? cause you'd be the only one making the argument.

also, i don't need the history lesson on pat. you're not talking to some youngin who doesn't know his knick history but thanks.

I don't think you comprehend how good and how much better Ewing was. To put it in today's terms, Ewing was every bit as much of a star as KD, Steph, Harden, CP3, Leonard, etc. Except, he maintained that level for roughly 15 years. His impact was on the same level as anyone in the game except for Jordan. Olajuwon was great too but I don't think that either team would have made that trade back then. Towards the end of his prime, there was trade talk of Ewing for Shaq. Either way, the list is short and we're talking about teams willing to trade some of the best players EVER straight up for Ewing. He was that good.

[drekwins]

I don't like to say this to people but you are clearly young, stupid or don't know basketball. Back then, College was much more competitive. Ewing brought Georgetown to 3 straight National Championship games. He did this while enduring crazy levels of hostility and racism from every opposing crowd. Not only was he one of the best on the offensive end, he was THE BEST on the defensive end.

From a very young age, Ewing was physical and ELITE on both ends of the floor. KP has a lot of gaping holes in his game that Ewing didn't have. He was a clear cut elite 1st option on offense and an elite defensive anchor. Your statement saying that KP is better is just asinine. Please be more careful with your assertions.

Well, I didn't thought someone would think I'am being serious..

Sure you did. You got a Bunch of And 1's agreeing with you.

Exactly, the and-1 counter is what pissed me off. When a reckless statement is made, it's easy to ignore. It's different when there's a following. That notion has to be nipped in the bud right away. It's too false.

[ChaosHamster]

Since you are only a Knick Fan cause of KP....Umm No. FOH.

Why you started to be a Knicks fan?

Cause I am a NY'er born and raised. I did not become a knick fan because of any player. If KP was not a Knick, you would not even be here. If that dude was a Pelican you would be on they board Jocking him. So again FOH. Cant even take you serious.

So, you are bashing me because I actually became a fan of the team, because I like something about it? (and its not only KP).

Where you just randomly were born in NY..

[god shammgod]

kp no like rose or the offense

Since a spectacular November, Porzingis has tailed off, admitting coach Jeff Hornacek’s hybrid triangle offense has failed to produce consistency.
It has been noted backup point guard Brandon Jennings seems to target Porzingis more so than Rose.

In fact, one NBA source The Post, “I don’t think Derrick is helping Porzingis’s growth, with his head down going to the basket, not really looking for him.’’

Indeed, Porzingis would like a better feel for Rose’s game.

“We’re still trying to find that connection between us, where we know exactly where the guy’s going to be,’’ Porzingis said before the World squad beat the U.S., 150-141, on Friday in the Rising Stars Challenge. Porzingis scored 24 points and grabbed 10 rebounds in 33 minutes. “I’ve been trying to roll to the basket more. That’s another adjustment for the guards. I’m not always at the 3-point line. We have to get a really good feel for each other. That doesn’t happen overnight. We’re still trying to work on that.’’

Hornacek’s attempt to stray partially from the triangle hasn’t meant any more victories (23-34) than under Derek Fisher.

According to one player, the Knicks played the triangle exceptionally well in gaining a 17-point lead on Oklahoma City in the second quarter. But when the Thunder started taking away some of those actions, the Knicks couldn’t counteract. Hence, Hornacek deviated at halftime to more of their standard “early offense.” The club just hasn’t mastered the triangles’s nuances.

“We don’t really know it as well as we did last year,’’ Porzingis admitted. “We played it the whole time. We knew it much better than this year. For the triangle to really work, everybody needs to be on the same page and know how to play it. I think we have a lot of places to grow as a team that plays triangle. I love the triangle. It’s a great offense if you execute it well. We’ve been going back and forth playing both.’’

http://nypost.com/2017/02/18/kristaps-porzingis-cant-get-on-same-page-with-derrick-rose/

[IllmaticHandler]

Why you started to be a Knicks fan?

Cause I am a NY'er born and raised. I did not become a knick fan because of any player. If KP was not a Knick, you would not even be here. If that dude was a Pelican you would be on they board Jocking him. So again FOH. Cant even take you serious.

So, you are bashing me because I actually became a fan of the team, because I like something about it? (and its not only KP).

Where you just randomly were born in NY..

No. Im bashing your comment cause you a suspect Knick Fan, and said something crazy like KP> Ewing. Then try to play it off like you as Joking.

[ChaosHamster]

Why you started to be a Knicks fan?

Cause I am a NY'er born and raised. I did not become a knick fan because of any player. If KP was not a Knick, you would not even be here. If that dude was a Pelican you would be on they board Jocking him. So again FOH. Cant even take you serious.

So, you are bashing me because I actually became a fan of the team, because I like something about it? (and its not only KP).

Where you just randomly were born in NY..

I'am pretty sure people just understood what I meant.

Guy was comparing Ewing's first two seasons with KP`s. Where I just pointed out that Ewing was older in those, and KP still has time to reach that level when he will be 23-24.

[drekwins]

Why you started to be a Knicks fan?

Cause I am a NY'er born and raised. I did not become a knick fan because of any player. If KP was not a Knick, you would not even be here. If that dude was a Pelican you would be on they board Jocking him. So again FOH. Cant even take you serious.

So, you are bashing me because I actually became a fan of the team, because I like something about it? (and its not only KP).

Where you just randomly were born in NY..

BS, unless you have roots, there's nothing else to like! The only other positive is the fan turnout at games. This franchise sucks but what keeps most of us here is that we love the team. The individual players come and go. True fan's don't. If KP has a career ending injury or something happens, will you be a fan still? Don't get me wrong. I love basketball. I love watching Kahwi, Westbrook, etc. but when there's national games on TV, I'm still tuned into the Knicks...even when I don't want to be and know I'm wasting my life. I may flip back and forth when the Cavs, SA, and GS play each other but that's pretty much it.

[Marty McFly]

kp no like rose or the offense

Since a spectacular November, Porzingis has tailed off, admitting coach Jeff Hornacek’s hybrid triangle offense has failed to produce consistency.

It has been noted backup point guard Brandon Jennings seems to target Porzingis more so than Rose.

In fact, one NBA source The Post, “I don’t think Derrick is helping Porzingis’s growth, with his head down going to the basket, not really looking for him.’’

Indeed, Porzingis would like a better feel for Rose’s game.

“We’re still trying to find that connection between us, where we know exactly where the guy’s going to be,’’ Porzingis said before the World squad beat the U.S., 150-141, on Friday in the Rising Stars Challenge. Porzingis scored 24 points and grabbed 10 rebounds in 33 minutes. “I’ve been trying to roll to the basket more. That’s another adjustment for the guards. I’m not always at the 3-point line. We have to get a really good feel for each other. That doesn’t happen overnight. We’re still trying to work on that.’’

Hornacek’s attempt to stray partially from the triangle hasn’t meant any more victories (23-34) than under Derek Fisher.

According to one player, the Knicks played the triangle exceptionally well in gaining a 17-point lead on Oklahoma City in the second quarter. But when the Thunder started taking away some of those actions, the Knicks couldn’t counteract. Hence, Hornacek deviated at halftime to more of their standard “early offense.” The club just hasn’t mastered the triangles’s nuances.

“We don’t really know it as well as we did last year,’’ Porzingis admitted. “We played it the whole time. We knew it much better than this year. For the triangle to really work, everybody needs to be on the same page and know how to play it. I think we have a lot of places to grow as a team that plays triangle. I love the triangle. It’s a great offense if you execute it well. We’ve been going back and forth playing both.’’

http://nypost.com/2017/02/18/kristaps-porzingis-cant-get-on-same-page-with-derrick-rose/

shocked i tell ya. shocked. thanks phillip.

[ChaosHamster]

Cause I am a NY'er born and raised. I did not become a knick fan because of any player. If KP was not a Knick, you would not even be here. If that dude was a Pelican you would be on they board Jocking him. So again FOH. Cant even take you serious.

So, you are bashing me because I actually became a fan of the team, because I like something about it? (and its not only KP).

Where you just randomly were born in NY..

BS, unless you have roots, there's nothing else to like! The only other positive is the fan turnout at games. This franchise sucks but what keeps most of us here is that we love the team. The individual players come and go. True fan's don't. If KP has a career ending injury or something happens, will you be a fan still? Don't get me wrong. I love basketball. I love watching Kahwi, Westbrook, etc. but when there's national games on TV, I'm still tuned into the Knicks...even when I don't want to be and know I'm wasting my life. I may flip back and forth when the Cavs, SA, and GS play each other but that's pretty much it.

I don't get your point. Are you trying to say that long-term fans are only ones who have some roots in NY? And there is noone who joined for whatever reason. Liked how 90`s Knicks played, was a fan of player in college, and started to follow him in NBA, or just liked basketball and choose to root for the Knicks (like a lot of non-americans do). And then just stayed for a long time.

Now I'am a mostly KP fan, I'am not denying that, but do you think, after he spends, lets say 10 or 15 years in NY, and than retires or goes to finish his career elsewhere, I will just that.. forget those 10-15 years of following and rooting for the Knicks? I don't think so..

[Marty McFly]

You are moving the goal posts with the age argument. The first argument was about first two years in the league. Then you switch it up to age. I said it's irrelevant because they are in the league for two years regardless. Then you try to make it about him being better than Ewing because he averaged 16 and 10. KP has never averaged 10 boards. Ewing was such a beast in college that teams were desperate to draft him. They had to use the lottery system to make it fair for teams to have a chance. When we drafted him, Debuscherre couldn't contain himself.

The argument about Ewing not having to play with a ball hog is junk. Alphas demand the ball and shine regardless who their teammates are. Ewing was aggressive and demanding. KP has not shown that fire yet.

i'm not moving ****. it's the same argument i've been making since i jumped into this discussion. you obviously have reading comprehension issues so go back and read it again. you yourself said there's more to evaluating players than stats, is age not one of those things? cause you'd be the only one making the argument.

also, i don't need the history lesson on pat. you're not talking to some youngin who doesn't know his knick history but thanks.

I don't think you comprehend how good and how much better Ewing was. To put it in today's terms, Ewing was every bit as much of a star as KD, Steph, Harden, CP3, Leonard, etc. Except, he maintained that level for roughly 15 years. His impact was on the same level as anyone in the game except for Jordan. Olajuwon was great too but I don't think that either team would have made that trade back then. Towards the end of his prime, there was trade talk of Ewing for Shaq. Either way, the list is short and we're talking about teams willing to trade some of the best players EVER straight up for Ewing. He was that good.

it's legitimately like talking to a brick wall with some of you. it truly is.

[Side beard]

Cause I am a NY'er born and raised. I did not become a knick fan because of any player. If KP was not a Knick, you would not even be here. If that dude was a Pelican you would be on they board Jocking him. So again FOH. Cant even take you serious.

So, you are bashing me because I actually became a fan of the team, because I like something about it? (and its not only KP).

Where you just randomly were born in NY..

I'am pretty sure people just understood what I meant.

Guy was comparing Ewing's first two seasons with KP`s. Where I just pointed out that Ewing was older in those, and KP still has time to reach that level when he will be 23-24.

Don't talk bull. Age shouldn't be in discussion. Kat, Jokic all are aggressive. So is Billy whenever he gets ball and somehow rose passes the ball to him more often than to Kris.

The sad fact is that KP might never be the alpha dog cause he just doesn't have the mentality.

Strength is just part of the problem and probably the easiest way to fix the issue. KP has to be smarter. Roam around court more when he doesn't have the ball, pick his poison against weaker opposition. Same goes for defensive and rebounds. 7'3 and team still gets out rebounded each game.

Maybe you've noticed that Kris loses any kind of interest about the game when ball is not reaching him on offense. That hurts the Knicks majorly.

While there are some problems that might be fixed with couple of deals, Kris with his game could help the team more if he was more assertive.


****, I just remembered, sometimes he doesn't even get the ball when his is the only starter with bench.

You keep talking about age and other nonsense while the only problem is in his head.