Official Trade Thread - Part XXXII

[BurtGummer]

Are you trolling? Blocks and steals measure defensive impact??

All you need to know is that the Wall-Beal-Otto-Oubre-Gortat lineup has one of the best net ratings in the league.

Not trolling at all,I just don't think he's very good
He doesn't score much gets a couple rebounds no steals no blocks you tell me why he's so good and spare me with your line-up with one of the best net ratings if its true its not because of him its because the Wiz have one of the best starting 5 in the league and the other guys will make up for all his weaknesses

Then why does the net rating soar when Oubre REPLACES one of the starting five (Gortat or Morris)?? The dude is our most versatile defender. He'll guard the point guard if Wall is tired, he'll guard the other team's star player, he'll guard power forwards when called upon. A guy who can switch 1-4 is valuable in today's league. When he's in the lineup, all our guards/wings can switch with ease.

You tell me why we should trade for the bad players on your bad team. I can make the argument that every single player on your roster aside from Zubac, Ingram and D'Angelo is bad and will stay bad.

My roster? My bad team?
wtf are you talking about?
Ive been a Washington fan since we had Elvin Hayes and Wes Unseld (also liked Greg Ballard)

[sfam]

Its going to be a fun final third of the regular season. The trade deadline question seems to me in part on how much to we value the chance to potentially lose to Golden State in the finals, or find a way to win in the next few years. We're close enough to elite that I think we look for ways to maximize a two-three year window. The more I think of it the less I like the idea of trading a draft pick unless the return provides a solid value for the next three years or so.

If we can turn Nicholson and trash at the end of our roster (or middle of the roster in the case of our backup PG) into an upgrade combo guard, I'm all for it. Not so much for draft picks.

[stevemcqueen1]

The two guys I'm afraid of Ernie acquiring are Brandon Knight & Bojan Bogdanovic so I was horrified to learn of the rumor linking the Wizards to Bogdanovic. Leave it to Ernie to find a potential rental that's a downgrade to an already lousy bench. Bojan is a SF that will likely end up stealing minutes from Oubre - not Burke and potentially makes us worse.

We discussed Bojan on a different board and there are a couple of factors that made me like the idea of trading for him more:

1 - He's supposedly a natural SG. A poster that follows him said he's an oversized SG in the vein of Joe Johnson being a SG.

2 - He'd probably play with Oubre. Oubre can guard 1s and 2s so it doesn't really matter where you play him.

3 - Sato can play some PG and he can also guard 1s, 2s, and 3s. A Sato/Bogdanovich/Oubre line up is huge and I think it has enough scoring and defense to be balanced.

My only issue with Bogdanovich is the cost. I don't like the idea of giving up a first round pick for an expiring at all. If we could get him for Burke or Jason Smith and a second, then I'd be on board. But losing the first rounder and then having him walk this offseason is way too big a potential price to pay.

Looking at 82games.com he's been equally bad at either the 2 or the 3. Considering his height/weight I'm assuming he doesn't have the foot speed to take other 2s off the bounce or defend adequately and that's his real issue. He's a really poor defender. He's not like Lou Will who is such an offensive dynamo that his scoring can offset his weak defense. A horrible team like Nets were better with Bojan OFF the court - on both sides of the ball! I cannot fathom giving up an asset for this guy. Is better than Marcus Thornton? Sure but we need to aim higher than that.

What about for Burke or Smith and a second? Would you make that deal?

As far as being able to score on other 2s, I think he takes them with strength instead of speed because he's got good scoring numbers and does a lot of unassisted scoring at the basket. He's a pretty good shooter too, which is what you'd need for those end of first and third quarter minutes he'd get with Wall. Then he can be a go to scorer for the bench at the start of the second and fourth quarters.

And as far as the defensive issues go, Kelly could guard his man and you could put Bojan on the weaker perimeter player. Most teams won't have multiple dynamic perimeter scorers on their bench, so you should be able to hide him.

[europeanfan]

Bogdanovic is good enough to play the Mike Miller role, not sure what people expect...

Look granpa Vince Carter helping his team win a game in the POs :

Watch on YouTube

Was he good defensively? Did he take minutes away from a 22% 3 pt shooter like Satoransky (Oubre not that much better)??

You need outside shooters so that teams cant collapse on your stars, you never have enough.

Look fatass Boris Diaw who wasnt good enough for Charlotte hit a game winning 3 after being acquired at the deadllne :

Watch on YouTube

Won't post the Ray Allen shot, everyone seen hit... Was he a plus defender?

Can Oubre and Sato hit those shots? If Morris has an off night, if Otto fouls out, who do you put on the floor to get a 3?

[NatP4]

Unfortunately I have Although I don't live near DC they're still on tv here
The Stats don't lie he can occasionally play some defense but not often he doesn't even average 1 block, 1 assist or 1 steal a game

Are you trolling? Blocks and steals measure defensive impact??

All you need to know is that the Wall-Beal-Otto-Oubre-Gortat lineup has one of the best net ratings in the league.

Not trolling at all,I just don't think he's very good
He doesn't score much gets a couple rebounds no steals no blocks you tell me why he's so good and spare me with your line-up with one of the best net ratings if its true its not because of him its because the Wiz have one of the best starting 5 in the league and the other guys will make up for all his weaknesses

Then why is the Oubre lineup even better than the starting lineup pal? And did you just say Oubre gets you no steals?

[sfam]

Are you trolling? Blocks and steals measure defensive impact??

All you need to know is that the Wall-Beal-Otto-Oubre-Gortat lineup has one of the best net ratings in the league.

Not trolling at all,I just don't think he's very good
He doesn't score much gets a couple rebounds no steals no blocks you tell me why he's so good and spare me with your line-up with one of the best net ratings if its true its not because of him its because the Wiz have one of the best starting 5 in the league and the other guys will make up for all his weaknesses

Then why is the Oubre lineup even better than the starting lineup pal? And did you just say Oubre gets you no steals?

Oubre is a terrific defender, a solid slasher, and a really hard worker. He just needs confidence in his shot. Given Scott Brooks's development prowess, Oubre will most likely make significant improvement in both that and his ball handling skills in the next few years.

[NatP4]

Not trolling at all,I just don't think he's very good
He doesn't score much gets a couple rebounds no steals no blocks you tell me why he's so good and spare me with your line-up with one of the best net ratings if its true its not because of him its because the Wiz have one of the best starting 5 in the league and the other guys will make up for all his weaknesses

Then why is the Oubre lineup even better than the starting lineup pal? And did you just say Oubre gets you no steals?

Oubre is a terrific defender, a solid slasher, and a really hard worker. He just needs confidence in his shot. Given Scott Brooks's development prowess, Oubre will most likely make significant improvement in both that and his ball handling skills in the next few years.

His off the bounce game will take off next season, he's a future all star, Mark my words.

[BurtGummer]

Are you trolling? Blocks and steals measure defensive impact??

All you need to know is that the Wall-Beal-Otto-Oubre-Gortat lineup has one of the best net ratings in the league.

Not trolling at all,I just don't think he's very good
He doesn't score much gets a couple rebounds no steals no blocks you tell me why he's so good and spare me with your line-up with one of the best net ratings if its true its not because of him its because the Wiz have one of the best starting 5 in the league and the other guys will make up for all his weaknesses

Then why is the Oubre lineup even better than the starting lineup pal? And did you just say Oubre gets you no steals?

Averaging 0.8 steals you tell me don't the real facts get in the way all the time?
I'm done arguing about this you have your opinion I have mine.You don't like mine and honestly I couldn't care less

[NatP4]

Not trolling at all,I just don't think he's very good
He doesn't score much gets a couple rebounds no steals no blocks you tell me why he's so good and spare me with your line-up with one of the best net ratings if its true its not because of him its because the Wiz have one of the best starting 5 in the league and the other guys will make up for all his weaknesses

Then why is the Oubre lineup even better than the starting lineup pal? And did you just say Oubre gets you no steals?

Averaging 0.8 steals you tell me don't the real facts get in the way all the time?
I'm done arguing about this you have your opinion I have mine.You don't like mine and honestly I couldn't care less

Which is 1.3 per 36, so saying "he doesn't get any steals" when we pretty much see him get that signature steal and slam every single game, is just wrong. But you can keep your incorrect opinion if you want! Have a good one

[NatP4]

Like half of our fanbase now wants to trade Oubre and/or Sato for role player vets off the bench. Honestly, what happened? The ONLY trade we should potentially be making, is a small move for a veteran combo guard scorer in exchange for a FUTURE draft pick. No moving core pieces/young talent, it's just about getting rid of Burke and replacing him with what he SHOULD be. This deadline needs to end so that I can stop reading "Oubre for Lou Williams" or "Satoransky and Oubre for Melo" sigh

[sfam]

Read on Twitter

They start talking about the wizards at like 3:45. They are guessing the Wizards are ready to drop a draft pick in this draft for Lou Williams or Bogdanovic.

[payitforward]

I wouldn't trade for George. Porter is far and away the more effective offensive player at this stage. Porter is proving to be an elite shooter. Outside of Durant he's arguably been the best shooter in the NBA this year. George may be better at creating his own shot but that's less of need with the development of Wall and Beal.

George is a better on ball defender but when looking at age, Porter's consistent improvement and the fact we can lock up Porter for the next 5 years as opposed to having George for 2... I see little reason to risk the chemistry we have now.

I think what makes us so good right now is that we have the best perimeter trio in the league outside of Golden State and Beal & Porter haven't even entered their primes yet. If there is any moves to be made it's to our front court & back court depth.

Agree 100%. Not only wouldn't I trade Porter & a #1 pick for Paul George, I wouldn't trade Otto straight up for him.

Worth mentioning that I thought Paul George was the 3d best player in the 2010 draft, & that he might wind up being the best player altogether over his career. I.e. I'm not a PG hater.

But in every way I can think of, Otto Porter is a more valuable commodity than Paul George. I'd also say that right now (& into the future) he's the better player of the two.

Is Otto really better or are his stats better because he's a 3rd/4th option?? I'd imagine George's efficiency would skyrocket if he camped the 3 point line and stopped taking isolation pull-ups.

No doubt his efficiency would go up if he took fewer isolation jump shots. I suppose most players' efficiency would. But one thing that defines a true star is that his efficiency doesn't decline when his usage is high. Compare Paul George to Paul Pierce or Kawhi Leonard for a sense of the difference.

But that doesn't make Paul George a bad player! & above all -- it's not the main reason Otto is more valuable.

Otto Porter has way more of a future overall than Paul George. And he's still developing. & we will be able to sign him this off season until he's 29!! I.e. for the most productive part of his career. That's an extraordinary opportunity; it's not one you trade away. Ever.

[queridiculo]

Well, how about adding Bogdanovic AND Williams

Bogdanovich's value is limited as a pending FA, but if they take Nicholson I could convince myself to give up a heavily protected future first and deal the 2017 first for Lou Williams.

The Wizards would go from being top heavy to all of a sudden having a ton of flexibility and legit scoring options off the bench.

[payitforward]

One of the many many many many many mod tasks is to lock a thread that reaches 100 pages and start a new thread, so each version of the Political thread beyond the first version (started by Lupin?) is probably started by a mod. Nate's starting many Political threads, Trade threads, etc. is one measure of his contribution to the board.

During the annual mod convention in Aruba, scofflaws and reprobates take advantage of the attendant light policing and spam post to get threads to 101 pages, like an overflowing shopping cart stall in a grocery store parking lot. Anarchy, chaos, madness, I tell you!

As I have pointed out, I'm often wrong. I was wrong about this. I don't mind it being pointed out when I'm wrong, & I don't mind apologizing.

I hope you understand what an important skill this is.

For no more than travel expenses (plus a small per diem), I would be willing to instruct you in this skill at the next Aruba get-together.

I would only add that your mention of "101 pages" reminds me that the worst offenses to logic & decency in all threads occur on prime-numbered pages. Insight into the mysteries behind this phenomenon will be included in my Aruba presentation.

[payitforward]

Now that Mahinmi's back, he might get the chance. The reason he hasn't played is because we couldn't hide his flaws without a healthy Mahinmi. Jason Smith exceeded expectations too. Nicholson is slow and he's not physical and his release on his set shot jumper takes a century. Jason Smith is physical, he covers ground because he tries so hard, and he is a super shooter off the catch. He's limited, but Brooks went with him over Nicholson because his effort is so much better and he's more athletic and he is a better center. Nicholson isn't a garbage player, he just hasn't gotten a chance here. It's a numbers game and we have too many bigs on our roster.

I'm not so optimistic. I don't buy the notion that Mahinmi can cover up for Nicholson. It doesn't matter that Mahinmi is a good rim protector. That won't help Nicholson execute our switching scheme on defense. It won't improve Nicholson's ability to close out and challenge 3's.

Slow plodders just don't work in today's game anymore. They're massive liabilities everywhere but at center.

Plus, I've never believed you can "hide" an NBA player's shortcomings. When the guy is on the floor, you get the effect of everything he does & doesn't do -- good or bad.

[NatP4]

Now that Mahinmi's back, he might get the chance. The reason he hasn't played is because we couldn't hide his flaws without a healthy Mahinmi. Jason Smith exceeded expectations too. Nicholson is slow and he's not physical and his release on his set shot jumper takes a century. Jason Smith is physical, he covers ground because he tries so hard, and he is a super shooter off the catch. He's limited, but Brooks went with him over Nicholson because his effort is so much better and he's more athletic and he is a better center. Nicholson isn't a garbage player, he just hasn't gotten a chance here. It's a numbers game and we have too many bigs on our roster.

I'm not so optimistic. I don't buy the notion that Mahinmi can cover up for Nicholson. It doesn't matter that Mahinmi is a good rim protector. That won't help Nicholson execute our switching scheme on defense. It won't improve Nicholson's ability to close out and challenge 3's.

Slow plodders just don't work in today's game anymore. They're massive liabilities everywhere but at center.

Plus, I've never believed you can "hide" an NBA player's shortcomings. When the guy is on the floor, you get the effect of everything he does & doesn't do -- good or bad.

Not always, for example, a Lou and Sato backcourt could easily mix and match to put Lou on spot up shooters rather than ball handlers, they also have Oubre available. I think it's easy to hide a 2nd unit guard defensively.

They could give Lou the 3rd option perimeter player off the bench every night, that's not scary at all. In terms of big men, way different I think, can't hide Nicholson defensively, he's getting attacked in pick and roll every play just like smith.

[gambitx777]

If we can get bogdanavic for a future first or second and dump Nicholson you do it, hes is versatile and will benefit by playing off the bench on a good team. He can play stretch 4, play 3 and play 2 if needed. We could make a lot of use of him and we dump Nicholson. I do it all day. I still want to stay clear of Lou Williams unless the deal is right, If we pull both deals I can live with it. Cuz we still dump Nicholson. It ends up being about even. I would rather go looking at rondo to be honest he is putting up decent defensive and distribution numbers in a bench role he would be real good for our bench.

[nate33]

I'm not so optimistic. I don't buy the notion that Mahinmi can cover up for Nicholson. It doesn't matter that Mahinmi is a good rim protector. That won't help Nicholson execute our switching scheme on defense. It won't improve Nicholson's ability to close out and challenge 3's.

Slow plodders just don't work in today's game anymore. They're massive liabilities everywhere but at center.

Plus, I've never believed you can "hide" an NBA player's shortcomings. When the guy is on the floor, you get the effect of everything he does & doesn't do -- good or bad.

Not always, for example, a Lou and Sato backcourt could easily mix and match to put Lou on spot up shooters rather than ball handlers, they also have Oubre available. I think it's easy to hide a 2nd unit guard defensively.

It's still going to be a problem. Teams know how to force a switch to put Lou into a bad matchup. But your point is well taken. In general, it's easier to "hide" guards than forwards.

[NatP4]

If we can get bogdanavic for a future first or second and dump Nicholson you do it, hes is versatile and will benefit by playing off the bench on a good team. He can play stretch 4, play 3 and play 2 if needed. We could make a lot of use of him and we dump Nicholson. I do it all day. I still want to stay clear of Lou Williams unless the deal is right, If we pull both deals I can live with it. Cuz we still dump Nicholson. It ends up being about even. I would rather go looking at rondo to be honest he is putting up decent defensive and distribution numbers in a bench role he would be real good for our bench.

Good points, IF, and it's a huge if, we go with a Sato-Oubre-Bogdonovich(or switch Oubre Bogdonovich) or even if we used him as a stretch 4,(which is a fantastic idea), it's a good move.

If he starts stealing minutes from Oubre(and I mean one second of PT) or if he starts playing the 2 alongside Otto at the 3 or spend ANY time with Burke out there, it's a disaster. He's significantly worse than Lou if he's just being used as a scoring 2 guard.

I DONT want anyone coming in and taking time from Oubre or Satoransky. We want all of Burke and Smiths minutes taken, so honestly, if bogdonovich could take all of those minutes, it's interesting. Lou certainly cannot play stretch 4 or give you any minutes guarding Lebron.

[gambitx777]

If we can get bogdanavic for a future first or second and dump Nicholson you do it, hes is versatile and will benefit by playing off the bench on a good team. He can play stretch 4, play 3 and play 2 if needed. We could make a lot of use of him and we dump Nicholson. I do it all day. I still want to stay clear of Lou Williams unless the deal is right, If we pull both deals I can live with it. Cuz we still dump Nicholson. It ends up being about even. I would rather go looking at rondo to be honest he is putting up decent defensive and distribution numbers in a bench role he would be real good for our bench.

Good points, IF, and it's a huge if, we go with a Sato-Oubre-Bogdonovich(or switch Oubre Bogdonovich) or even if we used him as a stretch 4,(which is a fantastic idea), it's a good move.

If he starts stealing minutes from Oubre(and I mean one second of PT) or if he starts playing the 2 alongside Otto at the 3 or spend ANY time with Burke out there, it's a disaster. He's significantly worse than Lou if he's just being used as a scoring 2 guard.

I DONT want anyone coming in and taking time from Oubre or Satoransky. We want all of Burke and Smiths minutes taken, so honestly, if bogdonovich could take all of those minutes, it's interesting. Lou certainly cannot play stretch 4 or give you any minutes guarding Lebron.

Well thats my point, I think we should be exploring Kelley at the 2 more, he is lean enough and defends well enough, put him next to Sato and let Sato be Sato, bogdonavic can be the SF in that likne up or play a Sato kelley porter bogdonavic mahinmi line up.
I think if you get bogdonavic the best way to play him is to play him with Kelley, they complement each other well. I think if you get him you are getting him as a stretch 4 wing, not a SG, but if you can move kelley over and play him at the 2 Like an early Joe Johnson type deal, then you kill two birds with one stone. and if you inclue burke in the trade, we can see how Sato can handle the primary point. Maybe its a long con, and we are playing burke to increase his value and make him more tradable because they feel sato is ready, from what they see in practice. I am sure they are working on his shot and his drives and such. He does dribble the air out of the ball but that can be fixed he is a great passer and a good defender he just needs to be more offensively aggressive. But that is why I would rather have bogdanavic. He fills more of what you need if you get creative enough, and you can only really do one thing with Lou.