ImageImageImage

Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez

WeekapaugGroove
RealGM
Posts: 24,538
And1: 20,241
Joined: Feb 07, 2010

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#821 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:16 pm

GoranTragic wrote:
sunsbum wrote:Yea woj just said we weren't even top 2. From what I've been reading the kings brass has been slobbering over heild for some time. Explains why they waited to trade down with the suns after BH was taken. I don't think the suns were ever seriously in the boogie Convo from the get go.


If we weren't even being considered then we need to blow it up. I'm sorry to say that we need a new GM and I think Sarver feels the same. Don't expect McD to get his contract renewed.

Saberestar wrote:Probably we were not that interested at all. Cousins is a big expensive headcase, I am not surprised.


McD should have made a strong offer. That is his **** job.


It's McD's job to do what's best for the franchise. If they weren't confident that Cousins would resign I get why he wouldn't offer the farm for him. Especially since this season is already done for the suns so they would be putting all their eggs into being good and making Boogie happy next year then holding their breath as he visits other teams in free agency the summer of 2018. Now at that time the suns could offer an extra year but as we've seen recently with Durrant, LMA, and Howard that doesn't always mean you will keep your player. Hell he could have the mindset that because of Bledsoe the suns are a team that will get a meeting with Boogie that summer and if they can prove to have a strong enough core to put around him and the cap space to sign him they might just get him for free.
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
sunshoopjunky
Sophomore
Posts: 102
And1: 25
Joined: Jun 25, 2009

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#822 » by sunshoopjunky » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:17 pm

bigfoot wrote:The love for Cousins is ridiculous. He is not, repeat not, an elite center or power forward. He puts up empty stats on a bad team and has been unable to lead the Kings to the playoffs as the main man.

1) He is not a stretch power forward/center because he holds a career 3pt shooting percent of .322
2) He is not a good shooting big man (6'10" or bigger with 10 or more shots per game). Check out this list of active players and see where he lands with career true shooting percentage ... https://tinyurl.com/h6kskaz
3) He is not an elite defender for big men ... https://tinyurl.com/z5xsaec

There in lies the problem. He does not fit into the modern NBA system of either shooting three pointers or layups. His two point shooting percentage away from the basket is atrocious. The only thing he does well is rebound and get to the line and the later is not reflected in his true shooting percentage because he is not an elite free throw shooter.

Very glad we did not waste our assets on this player.


You make a lot of great points my fear with our current coach, players, and system that Boogie would have been a ball stop. It will be interesting for me to see if his skills at not needing the ball to make an impact get better playing with AD.
We need more “Shazam!” and less“Heartbreak Hotel”.
bhawk
Pro Prospect
Posts: 797
And1: 713
Joined: Jan 12, 2008
Location: Denver, CO
     

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#823 » by bhawk » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:22 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:
GoranTragic wrote:
sunsbum wrote:Yea woj just said we weren't even top 2. From what I've been reading the kings brass has been slobbering over heild for some time. Explains why they waited to trade down with the suns after BH was taken. I don't think the suns were ever seriously in the boogie Convo from the get go.


If we weren't even being considered then we need to blow it up. I'm sorry to say that we need a new GM and I think Sarver feels the same. Don't expect McD to get his contract renewed.

Saberestar wrote:Probably we were not that interested at all. Cousins is a big expensive headcase, I am not surprised.


McD should have made a strong offer. That is his **** job.


It's McD's job to do what's best for the franchise. If they weren't confident that Cousins would resign I get why he wouldn't offer the farm for him. Especially since this season is already done for the suns so they would be putting all their eggs into being good and making Boogie happy next year then holding their breath as he visits other teams in free agency the summer of 2018. Now at that time the suns could offer an extra year but as we've seen recently with Durrant, LMA, and Howard that doesn't always mean you will keep your player. Hell he could have the mindset that because of Bledsoe the suns are a team that will get a meeting with Boogie that summer and if they can prove to have a strong enough core to put around him and the cap space to sign him they might just get him for free.


This. Good post. Cousins is going the way of Durant and LMA in May of '18. We keep our draft pick and get him for free. Start the Booogie sweepstakes thread now.

The real story is the Kings FO not paying Boogie the super max when they said they would. Boogie and his agents are PISSED. 40-50M pissed.
bhawk
Pro Prospect
Posts: 797
And1: 713
Joined: Jan 12, 2008
Location: Denver, CO
     

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#824 » by bhawk » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:25 pm

McD is doing a fine job outside of the Knight trade. That is the last time he trades for an undersized, underperforming guard.

No Boogie... no big deal. Stay the course and out-tank the Lakers, Orlando and Kings.
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 98,145
And1: 61,002
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#825 » by bwgood77 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:27 pm

bhawk wrote:McD is doing a fine job outside of the Knight trade. That is the last time he trades for an undersized, underperforming guard.

No Boogie... no big deal. Stay the course and put-tank the Lakers, Orlando and Kings.


Yeah, I agree for the most part...this is definitely no boogie.
carey
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,192
And1: 1,941
Joined: Feb 12, 2009
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
     

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#826 » by carey » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:52 pm

Simmons on the Ringer NBA Show about Cousins: https://soundcloud.com/ringernbashow/ep-75-the-demarcus-cousins-deal-with-bill-simmons

I've transcribed the relevant Phoenix bit and my notes about it are in blue.


Simmons: Phoenix wouldn't make a Boogie trade unless Sacramento took back Brandon Knight or Tyson Chandler's contract because they had the contracts to add up. And also if Boogie's reputation about what he's like around young teammates - true or untrue or half true, whatever it is - I'm not sure... I like what Phoenix has going. I'd rather have one more lottery pick and figure it out this Summer. If you're Phoenix do you trade for Boogie? I don't do it. Why would you?
Mannix: What happened to you I thought you loved him?
Simmons: (Big sigh.) It's a big risk.
Mannix: You don't want to give up anything for him anymore. I thought you loved Boogie.
Simmons: I would want to give something up for him if I could put him on a good team. If I'm just putting him in the same situation he was in in Sacramento knowing that I have to pay him over $200M knowing that he might leave? There's no guarantee you going to keep him. If you're Phoenix why would you do that? How do you know you'll keep him? Oh I have him and Eric Bledsoe and Devin Booker. O.k. that's my team. I don't know. Obviously they weren't interested because they could have trumped that New Orleans offer. [This is what I said.]
Mannix: How else are you getting a super-star if you're them? Drafting them?
Simmons: Well listen.. if I were Phoenix I would have .. I would have done whatever I could to get him without giving up Booker or Bledsoe. I can build around those 3 guys and make something, but obviously they weren't interested. [Wait, what? You just spent 5 minutes explaining why it was good Phoenix didn't do that...] They could have trumped that New Orleans offer in 5 minutes. The same with Boston. They never even kicked the tires.
TeamTragic
General Manager
Posts: 9,000
And1: 7,028
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
 

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#827 » by TeamTragic » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:57 pm

carey wrote:Simmons on the Ringer NBA Show about Cousins: https://soundcloud.com/ringernbashow/ep-75-the-demarcus-cousins-deal-with-bill-simmons

I've transcribed the relevant Phoenix bit and my notes about it are in blue.


Simmons: Phoenix wouldn't make a Boogie trade unless Sacramento took back Brandon Knight or Tyson Chandler's contract because they had the contracts to add up. And also if Boogie's reputation about what he's like around young teammates - true or untrue or half true, whatever it is - I'm not sure... I like what Phoenix has going. I'd rather have one more lottery pick and figure it out this Summer. If you're Phoenix do you trade for Boogie? I don't do it. Why would you?
Mannix: What happened to you I thought you loved him?
Simmons: (Big sigh.) It's a big risk.
Mannix: You don't want to give up anything for him anymore. I thought you loved Boogie.
Simmons: I would want to give something up for him if I could put him on a good team. If I'm just putting him in the same situation he was in in Sacramento knowing that I have to pay him over $200M knowing that he might leave? There's no guarantee you going to keep him. If you're Phoenix why would you do that? How do you know you'll keep him? Oh I have him and Eric Bledsoe and Devin Booker. O.k. that's my team. I don't know. Obviously they weren't interested because they could have trumped that New Orleans offer. [This is what I said.]
Mannix: How else are you getting a super-star if you're them? Drafting them?
Simmons: Well listen.. if I were Phoenix I would have .. I would have done whatever I could to get him without giving up Booker or Bledsoe. I can build around those 3 guys and make something, but obviously they weren't interested. [Wait, what? You just spent 5 minutes explaining why it was good Phoenix didn't do that...] They could have trumped that New Orleans offer in 5 minutes. The same with Boston. They never even kicked the tires.


I have no idea what the hell is going on right now. I guess now we didn't even make a serious offer? Everyone is in complete shock and chaos has ensued not only in Sacramento (again) but also in New Orleans.

I heard that the Pelicans wanted to shake off the malaise but all they really did is put a spotlight on their front office. If Cousins doesn't sign with them then AD will probably bolt. If Cousins does sign then AD might potentially stay but what then?

This trade has made both teams worse. What a mess.
bhawk
Pro Prospect
Posts: 797
And1: 713
Joined: Jan 12, 2008
Location: Denver, CO
     

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#828 » by bhawk » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:02 pm

Some of the best trades are the ones that didn't happen... no way Boogie re-signs with NO and they just traded 2 high picks for a rental.
carey
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,192
And1: 1,941
Joined: Feb 12, 2009
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
     

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#829 » by carey » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:03 pm

bhawk wrote:The real story is the Kings FO not paying Boogie the super max when they said they would. Boogie and his agents are PISSED. 40-50M pissed.


I guess he shouldn't have been such a prick then, huh? Losing that money is almost entirely his own fault. Yes, Sacramento's front office is a dumpster fire, but he's been less professional over the course of his career than the Morris twins.
NTB
Suns Forum News Guru
Posts: 5,796
And1: 6,029
Joined: Dec 24, 2013
Contact:
   

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#830 » by NTB » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:05 pm

Read on Twitter
carey wrote:It is 2-time, every time.
carey
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,192
And1: 1,941
Joined: Feb 12, 2009
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
     

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#831 » by carey » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:07 pm

GoranTragic wrote:
I have no idea what the hell is going on right now. I guess now we didn't even make an offer? Everyone is in complete shock and chaos has ensued not only in Sacramento (again) but also in New Orleans.

I heard that the Pelicans wanted to shake off the malaise but all they really did is put a spotlight on their front office. If Cousins doesn't sign with them then AD will probably bolt. If Cousins does sign then AD might potentially stay but what then?

This trade has made both teams worse. What a mess.


We made an offer but they wouldn't take one of Tyson or Brandon's contract. I'm o.k. with it. I'm not a fan of Boogie.

Do you mean long term? The Pelicans are clearly better in the short term. Buddy wasn't even shooting 40% from the field (37% from 3.) He wasn't helping much this year in spite of their desperate need for outside shooting.
TeamTragic
General Manager
Posts: 9,000
And1: 7,028
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
 

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#832 » by TeamTragic » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:09 pm

NTB wrote:
Read on Twitter


Young core? Why is Len in that photo? :lol:
TeamTragic
General Manager
Posts: 9,000
And1: 7,028
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
 

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#833 » by TeamTragic » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:12 pm

carey wrote:
GoranTragic wrote:
I have no idea what the hell is going on right now. I guess now we didn't even make an offer? Everyone is in complete shock and chaos has ensued not only in Sacramento (again) but also in New Orleans.

I heard that the Pelicans wanted to shake off the malaise but all they really did is put a spotlight on their front office. If Cousins doesn't sign with them then AD will probably bolt. If Cousins does sign then AD might potentially stay but what then?

This trade has made both teams worse. What a mess.


We made an offer but they wouldn't take one of Tyson or Brandon's contract. I'm o.k. with it. I'm not a fan of Boogie.

Do you mean long term? The Pelicans are clearly better in the short term. Buddy wasn't even shooting 40% from the field (37% from 3.) He wasn't helping much this year in spite of their desperate need for outside shooting.


I meant a serious offer. The Pelicans will not move the needle this season. Kings get to rebuild and start tanking. What benefit do they have to win games? We now have more competition. Nice job McD.
carey
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,192
And1: 1,941
Joined: Feb 12, 2009
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
     

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#834 » by carey » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:12 pm

Sacramento wanted Booker. Not hard to read between the lines there. They did the right thing not trading Booker + the pick.
DirtyDez
Suns Forum College Scout
Posts: 17,177
And1: 6,908
Joined: Jun 25, 2009
Location: the Arizona desert

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#835 » by DirtyDez » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:13 pm

It seems pretty simple. If the Suns put forth the best offer and they still refused there's nothing you can do. McDonough isn't getting into a bidding war with himself and trading core guys. We do need to starting resting Bledsoe on b2b's and it's easier to sell with his knee issues in the past.
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
TeamTragic
General Manager
Posts: 9,000
And1: 7,028
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
 

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#836 » by TeamTragic » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:13 pm

carey wrote:Sacramento wanted Booker. Not hard to read between the lines there. They did the right thing not trading Booker + the pick.


Kings did not ask for Booker and our pick. McD hung up as soon as he heard Vlade breathing heavily.
AZWildByNature
Senior
Posts: 652
And1: 86
Joined: Dec 12, 2008
Location: PHX
     

Re: RE: Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#837 » by AZWildByNature » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:13 pm

GoranTragic wrote:
NTB wrote:
Read on Twitter


Young core? Why is Len in that photo? :lol:


I don't see Knight in the picture.
carey
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,192
And1: 1,941
Joined: Feb 12, 2009
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana
     

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#838 » by carey » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:14 pm

Gambo: Suns made best move of all by not trading for Cousins. - http://arizonasports.com/story/1030321/gambo-suns-made-the-best-move-of-all-by-not-trading-for-cousins/

Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don’t make. And in the case of DeMarcus Cousins, the Phoenix Suns in the long run will be very happy that they didn’t trade for a complete fraud.

Cousins is über talented — no one can question that. He is one of only three players averaging 25-plus points and 10-plus rebounds per game. But he doesn’t win. And more importantly, he is a franchise ruiner.

I am extremely happy that we all woke up this morning and Cousins is not a member of the Suns. And yes the Suns were somewhat interested in Cousins, did inquire about him and had internal discussions about him in a trade surrounding T.J. Warren, Alex Len and a draft pick. But Suns General Manager Ryan McDonough is no fool. He wasn’t going to overpay for a player who is a high-risk and one they would have had to pay close to $200 million for.

“We would have traded for him at the right price,” said McDonough. “We didn’t want to break up our young core to get him.”

The Suns young core is something to build around. They have young talent, plenty of cap space and a ton of draft picks including two first-rounders from Miami coming up. The Suns don’t need to be desperate, they need to be patient. The pieces for Phoenix are falling in place and a top-5 pick is on its way in June.

A team who needed to be desperate is in fact the team who is bringing Cousins on board.

New Orleans is 23-34 and 2 1/2 games out of the 8th spot in the Western Conference. Jobs, a lot of jobs are on the line in the organization including head coach Alvin Gentry. They had to do something. They had to make franchise player Anthony Davis happy. So they pulled the trigger on a trade for the 26-year-old center who was taken fifth overall by Sacramento in the 2010 draft.

But the lack of talent they gave up tells you everything you need to know about Cousins. The Pelicans parted with rookie first-round pick Buddy Hield, a decent player but nothing special, veteran swingman Tyreke Evans whose best days are behind him, guard Langston Galloway who likely won’t stick around, and their first and second round picks in this June’s draft for the three-time All-Star. The first-round pick is top-3 protected and right now that pick is slated to be 9th overall.

The happiest team in the NBA right now is the Sacramento Kings. What they just did was get out of having to pay $217 million to a player that has always done what was best for him, not what was best for his team.

Sacramento’s brass has lied from the second my report came out two weeks ago that the Kings were talking to the Suns about trading Cousins. They said they had no intention of trading him and that he was going nowhere. That he would sign an extension with the Kings.

Cousins for his part said he wanted to stay — mainly because by being traded he loses about $30 million as the designation rule allowed his original team to pay him 35 percent of the salary cap, but his new team can only pay him 30 percent of the cap. That’s a big chunk of change Cousins loses by being dealt.

But taking a deeper look there is a reason in his seven seasons in the NBA, the most wins Cousins has ever guided his team to is 33. In fact from his rookie season until this year the win totals for the Kings with Cousins go like this — 24, 22, 28, 28, 29, 33 and this year they are 24-33. Forget about making the playoffs, Sacramento has never even sniffed the playoffs since Cousins joined the team, finishing 14th, 14th, 13th, 13th, 13th and 10th in the Western Conference.

One prominent NBA high ranking executive told me there are 25 teams in the league who wouldn’t take Cousins for free. And he was serious.

Cousins is just not what he appears to be. Forget the numbers because they don’t explain anything when it comes to Cousins. He is a terrible teammate who takes the joy out of playing the game. He doesn’t get back on defense, dribbles the ball way too often instead of letting the point guard run the offense, jacks up three-pointers from wherever and whenever in total disregard for the offense being run. In fact it’s easy to define his style of play — it’s a losing style consisting of bad habit after bad habit. He is an emotional wreck and unstable. He is completely uncoachable.

The future for Phoenix is bright, but it wouldn’t have been had they been the team trading for Cousins instead of New Orleans.
TeamTragic
General Manager
Posts: 9,000
And1: 7,028
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
 

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#839 » by TeamTragic » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:17 pm

25 teams in the league wouldn't take Cousins for free? That is a bold statement and clearly the Pelicans front office panicked.
bhawk
Pro Prospect
Posts: 797
And1: 713
Joined: Jan 12, 2008
Location: Denver, CO
     

Re: Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight 

Post#840 » by bhawk » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:17 pm

I think Sacramento looks okay. They should have gotten more, but Heild will have a serviceable career. I don't think he projects as Curry, but he doesn't suck. I liked him in the draft, but am happy with Bender and Chris's so far.

Also consider Sac gets the NO pick around 10 or so AND they will tank for the remainder of the season. So two nice picks on a stacked draft. Pretty sure they will go PG and best available.

Return to Phoenix Suns