2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread

[Arsenal]

Why don't you have Dennis Smith on your board? if Smith was there at 4 I can't pass that up. IMO Smith Fultz and Ball are all close. His game is tailor made for the NBA.. I think he will come in and have a Lillard like impact from day one. Please Share your thought process

I have Dennis Smith at #7 behind the guys I have listed. Agree that Lillard is his upside, however all the guys I listed have higher upside. I find Lillard to be overrated by fans, but obviously not by coaches since they never pick him for the All-Star game lol.

You think Tatum and Monk have more upside than Dennis Smith? I don't see that at all. Dennis Smith has All-star quality talent, if he figures out how to give consistent effort.

Dennis Smith will be an all-star the same way a guy like Stephon Marbury was an all-star.

[LloydFree]

I have Dennis Smith at #7 behind the guys I have listed. Agree that Lillard is his upside, however all the guys I listed have higher upside. I find Lillard to be overrated by fans, but obviously not by coaches since they never pick him for the All-Star game lol.

You think Tatum and Monk have more upside than Dennis Smith? I don't see that at all. Dennis Smith has All-star quality talent, if he figures out how to give consistent effort.

Dennis Smith will be an all-star the same way a guy like Stephon Marbury was an all-star.

Is that supposed to be an insult to, or negative for Dennis Smith?

[Arsenal]

You think Tatum and Monk have more upside than Dennis Smith? I don't see that at all. Dennis Smith has All-star quality talent, if he figures out how to give consistent effort.

Dennis Smith will be an all-star the same way a guy like Stephon Marbury was an all-star.

Is that supposed to be an insult to Dennis Smith?

It's not an insult, it's a comparison. Marbury put up big numbers but didn't contribute much to winning. I believe Smith will be the same way. I don't think he fits with the way we want to play either. I believe he is and will always be an abysmal defender. I think he's not good off the ball. He's not the guy for us.

[LloydFree]

Dennis Smith will be an all-star the same way a guy like Stephon Marbury was an all-star.

Is that supposed to be an insult to Dennis Smith?

It's not an insult, it's a comparison. Marbury put up big numbers but didn't contribute much to winning. I believe Smith will be the same way. I don't think he fits with the way we want to play either. I believe he is and will always be an abysmal defender. I think he's not good off the ball. He's not the guy for us.

Whether he's a good fit or not, that doesn't make him a lesser prospect. If Dennis Smith becomes a young Stephon Marbury, you take him, and trade him for a king's ransom when the time comes. Stephon Marbury brings back prime Jason Kidd in a trade. Tobias Harris and Jamaal Crawford don't.

[Vince5693]

If we get #1 and #4, I do this:

1) Lonzo Ball
4) Jayson Tatum

I assume Fultz and Jackson would go #2 and #3. My new board for us:

1) Lonzo Ball
2) Josh Jackson
3) Markelle Fultz
4) Jayson Tatum
5) Jonathan Isaac
6) Malik Monk

Hopefully we end up with 2 of these guys.

I have :
1.) Ball
2.) Jackson
3.) fultz
4.) smith
5.) monk
6.) Isaac
7.) Tatum

Based on fit. I may even move monk above smith based on how well he would fit with Simmons

[Arsenal]

Is that supposed to be an insult to Dennis Smith?

It's not an insult, it's a comparison. Marbury put up big numbers but didn't contribute much to winning. I believe Smith will be the same way. I don't think he fits with the way we want to play either. I believe he is and will always be an abysmal defender. I think he's not good off the ball. He's not the guy for us.

Whether he's a good fit or not, that doesn't make him a lesser prospect. If Dennis Smith becomes a young Stephon Marbury, you take him, and trade him for a king's ransom when the time comes. Stephon Marbury brings back prime Jason Kidd in a trade. Tobias Harris and Jamaal Crawford don't.

Tatum and Monk are MUCH better prospects than Harris and Crawford, so that is a straw man.

And people aren't fooled by big counting stats these days like they were 20 years ago. A modern day Marbury doesn't bring you back a Jason Kidd in 2018.

[Kobblehead]

Donovan Mitchell is being under-represented on these big boards.

[Mik317]

Donovan Mitchell is being under-represented on these big boards.

yep. Wanted him to make a poor choice and leave last year so we could get him in the twenties.

if he has a great tourney run, I am sure he will fly up the boards. Seems like a perfect guy people get hip to at the last minute.

[Slizeezyc]

It's not an insult, it's a comparison. Marbury put up big numbers but didn't contribute much to winning. I believe Smith will be the same way. I don't think he fits with the way we want to play either. I believe he is and will always be an abysmal defender. I think he's not good off the ball. He's not the guy for us.

Whether he's a good fit or not, that doesn't make him a lesser prospect. If Dennis Smith becomes a young Stephon Marbury, you take him, and trade him for a king's ransom when the time comes. Stephon Marbury brings back prime Jason Kidd in a trade. Tobias Harris and Jamaal Crawford don't.

Tatum and Monk are MUCH better prospects than Harris and Crawford, so that is a straw man.

And people aren't fooled by big counting stats these days like they were 20 years ago. A modern day Marbury doesn't bring you back a Jason Kidd in 2018.

It's not really a straw man so much as it's just a misrepresentation of how Isaac and especially Tatum were/are perceived coming into the season/right now.

I think Lloyd is talking about "final outcomes" for players so you guys are sort of talking around each other in either case.

[Arsenal]

In case it's not clear, I think Jayson Tatum and Malik Monk will both be better NBA players than Dennis Smith, for us or for anyone else.

[LloydFree]

In case it's not clear, I think Jayson Tatum and Malik Monk will both be better NBA players than Dennis Smith, for us or for anyone else.

I don't agree, but that's a reasonable projection. I tend to value athletic projection a bit more than a lot of people. Tatum is a smart and skilled player, but I'm not sure everything he is able to do in college will transfer to NBA speed. Monk is too one dimensional to have as much potential impact as Smith. I just think Dennis Smith's skills have a better chance of projecting at the next level.

[Mik317]

Monk is a top tier athlete, no?

[Kobblehead]

This Miami/Virginia game is for basketball nerds, ONLY. Very slow-paced and possession devoid. Brown and Reed are not playing pretty, but they've made some keys plays here and there on both ends.

[Arsenal]

Monk is a top tier athlete, no?

Definitely. For me I value Monk's skillset as an elite off-ball shooter that will create "gravity" (ala the Splash Brothers) moreso than Smith's more typical ball-dominant PG skillset. I also think Monk will be a better defensive player (defending PG's) than Smith will.

[shawn_hemp]

Monk is a top tier athlete, no?

"Top tier" is a bit of a stretch. He's capable of running the floor very well and has a really nice and quick shooting motion, but he isn't one of those "jump out of the gym" type of players. He can still get to the rim pretty easily, but I wouldn't say he's in the same level of athleticism as Josh Jackson.

Id say Josh Jackson is in his own level for this draft when it comes to athleticism, and then the tier below him includes

Fox, Ball, Fultz, DSJ,

And the tier below them includes

Monk, Isaac, Tatum, Ntilikina

[Arsenal]

In case it's not clear, I think Jayson Tatum and Malik Monk will both be better NBA players than Dennis Smith, for us or for anyone else.

I don't agree, but that's a reasonable projection. I tend to value athletic projection a bit more than a lot of people. Tatum is a smart and skilled player, but I'm not sure everything he is able to do in college will transfer to NBA speed. Monk is too one dimensional to have as much potential impact as Smith. I just think Dennis Smith's skills have a better chance of projecting at the next level.

I was of the same mindset as you re: Tatum for most of the year, but he's really come on recently, and his numbers reflect that too. He may not be a LeBron type athlete, but he has plenty of athleticism to be very effective considering his combination of size, length, and skill. I can easily see him becoming another Paul George or Paul Pierce type player. His distance shooting will definitely translate as he's up to 38.9 3P% and 87.0% FT% after starting the year slow coming off an injury. His defense is very underrated also. The guy looks like he can be a plus wing / PF defender.

[Kobblehead]

Monk is a top tier athlete, no?

Definitely. Pound for pound, probably the most vertically explosive player in this class (alongside Donovan Mitchell).

[Kobblehead]

@Arsenal

What separates Markelle Fultz from Dennis Smith, in your eyes? I see a lot of your arguments against Smith and, in my head, they can be cross-applied to Fultz.

[LloydFree]

In case it's not clear, I think Jayson Tatum and Malik Monk will both be better NBA players than Dennis Smith, for us or for anyone else.

I don't agree, but that's a reasonable projection. I tend to value athletic projection a bit more than a lot of people. Tatum is a smart and skilled player, but I'm not sure everything he is able to do in college will transfer to NBA speed. Monk is too one dimensional to have as much potential impact as Smith. I just think Dennis Smith's skills have a better chance of projecting at the next level.

I was of the same mindset as you re: Tatum for most of the year, but he's really come on recently, and his numbers reflect that too. He may not be a LeBron type athlete, but he has plenty of athleticism to be very effective considering his combination of size, length, and skill. I can easily see him becoming another Paul George or [/b]Paul Pierce type player[/b]. His distance shooting will definitely translate as he's up to 38.9 3P% and 87.0% FT% after starting the year slow coming off an injury. His defense is very underrated also. The guy looks like he can be a plus wing / PF defender.

He can dribble, pass and shoot, so he's in pretty good shape as a prospect. No question.

[Kobblehead]

Bruce Brown hit a huge three with 20 seconds left in overtime and Davon Reed clinches the game with free throws.