Official Trade Thread - Part XXXII

[sogood]

Lol they're not trading Nance or Zubac unless they get a offer they can't refused. Zubac looks like a young Marc Gasol and Nance looks like he can become a great role player.


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[Dat2U]

Lol they're not trading Nance or Zubac unless they get a offer they can't refused. Zubac looks like a young Marc Gasol and Nance looks like he can become a great role player.


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Listening to Magic he thinks the Lakers have plenty of role players or guys that can play. He said the main problem was they lack stars and superstars. I think he's going to look to acquire picks and attempt to consolidate some of the young pieces they already have. I doubt he sees Zubac as a young Marc Gasol considering he didn't even bother to mention him when he was discussing the Lakers young pieces just a few days ago on ESPN.

[keynote]

Well, twitter says that Rob Palenka (well-known agent including Kobe's agent) is going to be the new GM. I'm pretty sure he won't make dumb trades for the sake. The Lakers need to tank the rest of the year to ensure they get a top 3 pick (so they don't have to lose their 2019 1st to Orlando). If they move a young guy, I'd trade Randle. I really like Ingram's potential (he needs to put on weight obviously).

I recently heard Magic being asked about the young Lakers players. He absolutely loves Ingram and thinks he's going to be a star. His only question is will he be a superstar. He likes Russell & Randle and thinks they'll be solid NBA players but isn't quite sure if they can be stars. I don't think he's high or thinks much of Clarkson, Nance & Zubac. It sounds like Ingram would be his untouchable. Everyone else could likely be had for the right price. I'd try to pick off Nance & Zubac if possible.

Nance is a perfect big in today's NBA. He's got a good soft touch, athletic, and can finish. I'd easily trade a 1st for him. Doubt Magic would, but who knows?

I'd trade 2017 1st+2019 1st+Nicholson for Lou Williams+Nance in a heartbeat.

I'm not sure if I'd want to give up two firsts for Williams/Nance, but I agree about coveting Nance. Wall hasn't had a springy lob target since McGee. I've wanted a Nance-type energy big to come off our bench for years.

[tontoz]

Keeping my fingers crossed that we don't trade any first round picks. We should be able to upgrade our backup guard positions without it.

[gambitx777]

Jason Smith + Trey Burke + 2017 first for Ivica Zubac + Lou Williams.

I would offer
Nicholson, burke a 2017 second and a 2018 first for Zubac and williams that I could live with. I could honestly live with jason smith being moved if we did a future first instead of a 2017 first. I like Zubac a lot, he is 19 and already a skilled pick and roll player. He reminds me a lot of a young Gortat.

[bsilver]

Basically, you want a point guard or combo guard to replace Burke or Sato, because neither is a distributor?

Satoransky is the playmaking point guard, but you want a combo guard that can handle the ball also because sato struggles somewhat handling the ball, you also want a player that can shoot off all because Sato is not much of a spot up shooter yet, Burke needs to be replaced because all he does is dribble the air out of the ball and jack up setback deep 2s, he can't even setup the offense, can't attack the basket, can't create shots for other guys.

Satoransky hasn't proven he's a playmaker. I don't see him making a lot of plays. I see him dribbling a lot and creating very little. This is mainly because he can't shoot and he's not skilled or quick enough off the bounce to compensate and get into the lane.

Burke is a horrifically bad player. He's definitely not a PG and shows cracks in his handle and decision making when he's pressed. However he can make a shot. The offensive flow basically stops when Sato is forced to run the offense. It may also stop when Burke is PG but at least you can run some semblance of an effective P&R with Burke. At least Burke can make a shot or create a play here and there.

I want Burke benched as bad as the next guy but putting the ball in Sato's hands leads to nowhere. Now Sato's defense is worlds better than Burke and probably offsets any advantage Burke gives them offensively IMO but to call Satoransky a playmaker is incorrect. I also don't think the coaching staff has confidence in Sato to run the offense and rightfully so.

It's frustrating to see Sato and Burke out there together. Don't know what they've been told, but Burke always seems to believe he's the PG. That makes Sato pretty useless (and everyone else there too). It's hard to look good in that situation.
I agree that Sato hasn't shown enough to be anointed the backup PG, but he hasn't been given enough opportunity. I'd like to see him out there without Burke and told, the backup PG job is yours if you go out and earn it.

[80sballboy]

Satoransky is the playmaking point guard, but you want a combo guard that can handle the ball also because sato struggles somewhat handling the ball, you also want a player that can shoot off all because Sato is not much of a spot up shooter yet, Burke needs to be replaced because all he does is dribble the air out of the ball and jack up setback deep 2s, he can't even setup the offense, can't attack the basket, can't create shots for other guys.

Satoransky hasn't proven he's a playmaker. I don't see him making a lot of plays. I see him dribbling a lot and creating very little. This is mainly because he can't shoot and he's not skilled or quick enough off the bounce to compensate and get into the lane.

Burke is a horrifically bad player. He's definitely not a PG and shows cracks in his handle and decision making when he's pressed. However he can make a shot. The offensive flow basically stops when Sato is forced to run the offense. It may also stop when Burke is PG but at least you can run some semblance of an effective P&R with Burke. At least Burke can make a shot or create a play here and there.

I want Burke benched as bad as the next guy but putting the ball in Sato's hands leads to nowhere. Now Sato's defense is worlds better than Burke and probably offsets any advantage Burke gives them offensively IMO but to call Satoransky a playmaker is incorrect. I also don't think the coaching staff has confidence in Sato to run the offense and rightfully so.

It's frustrating to see Sato and Burke out there together. Don't know what they've been told, but Burke always seems to believe he's the PG. That makes Sato pretty useless (and everyone else there too). It's hard to look good in that situation.
I agree that Sato hasn't shown enough to be anointed the backup PG, but he hasn't been given enough opportunity. I'd like to see him out there without Burke and told, the backup PG job is yours if you go out and earn it.

One game does not make a career. Sato has been given opportunities to handle the ball in many situations and he plays each possession as if he's afraid to make a mistake. That's not what a playoff team needs right now, a tenative rookie point guard. Maybe he'll be more aggressive next season and will have a more defined role, hopefully when he adds 10-15lbs. What he did in Europe is about as important as Burke being college player of the year at Michigan.

[nate33]

I recently heard Magic being asked about the young Lakers players. He absolutely loves Ingram and thinks he's going to be a star. His only question is will he be a superstar. He likes Russell & Randle and thinks they'll be solid NBA players but isn't quite sure if they can be stars. I don't think he's high or thinks much of Clarkson, Nance & Zubac. It sounds like Ingram would be his untouchable. Everyone else could likely be had for the right price. I'd try to pick off Nance & Zubac if possible.

Nance is a perfect big in today's NBA. He's got a good soft touch, athletic, and can finish. I'd easily trade a 1st for him. Doubt Magic would, but who knows?

I'd trade 2017 1st+2019 1st+Nicholson for Lou Williams+Nance in a heartbeat.

I'm not sure if I'd want to give up two firsts for Williams/Nance, but I agree about coveting Nance. Wall hasn't had a springy lob target since McGee. I've wanted a Nance-type energy big to come off our bench for years.

I wish people would stop devoting so much attention to big men. We don't need any big men at all. We need another guard. That's it.

[nate33]

Burke is a horrifically bad player. He's definitely not a PG and shows cracks in his handle and decision making when he's pressed. However he can make a shot. The offensive flow basically stops when Sato is forced to run the offense. It may also stop when Burke is PG but at least you can run some semblance of an effective P&R with Burke. At least Burke can make a shot or create a play here and there.

Yes. Burke is essentially the only shooter on the roster outside of Beal and Porter. He's doing the job of a SG on the second unit. He does it poorly, but there isn't anybody else.

One game does not make a career. Sato has been given opportunities to handle the ball in many situations and he plays each possession as if he's afraid to make a mistake. That's not what a playoff team needs right now, a tenative rookie point guard. Maybe he'll be more aggressive next season and will have a more defined role, hopefully when he adds 10-15lbs. What he did in Europe is about as important as Burke being college player of the year at Michigan.

Agreed. We need to stop fooling ourselves into thinking that Sato's only problem is that he hasn't been given a chance. Sato has had chances. He has so far proven to be way too tentative on offense, and has shown no ability to make plays or create enough separation to bend a defense. The only thing that he has done well (and it's no small thing) is play defense.

[gambitx777]

You know what I would offer the lakers.
I would offer them a 2017 first and second, nicholson/smith / burke For Clarkson/zubac or nance (their choice)/peace
this deal actually save them money and they get another first and second in a good draft.
I feel like the lakers would probably be ok with moving clarkson and Zubac for a first and a second. smith is a decent vet and nicholson is on a decent enough contract and like I said it saves them money next year. They can then go and move Lou to a more desperate team for a first, like the Jazz or Pacers or something like that.

[stevemcqueen1]

Lol they're not trading Nance or Zubac unless they get a offer they can't refused. Zubac looks like a young Marc Gasol and Nance looks like he can become a great role player.


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Listening to Magic he thinks the Lakers have plenty of role players or guys that can play. He said the main problem was they lack stars and superstars. I think he's going to look to acquire picks and attempt to consolidate some of the young pieces they already have. I doubt he sees Zubac as a young Marc Gasol considering he didn't even bother to mention him when he was discussing the Lakers young pieces just a few days ago on ESPN.

Yeah I would be lowballing them for Zubac but I'd be willing to give up assets for him. Probably wouldn't trade Oubre, but draft picks and Sato would be on the table. That's the kind of young asset I want to get with our draft picks.

[Mojo Amok]

From the random rumor thread on the T&T board:

Shelburne states that the Lakers have multiple teams with a 1st on the table for Lou Williams

If true, you know ours is one of them but we well might not be the most appealing candidate due to our unwieldy contracts.

Not really sure where she said that as I don't see it on her Twitter feed - might have been on-air.

[gambitx777]

FYI cleveland only has 2 total picks between now and 2020. (2018 and 2020 firsts.) They are going to break down very soon, because they are very quickly running out of trade assets to keep that boat a float.

Any who, See I think they need to stop treating Sato like a 2 guard, or a wing, hes not one. I was wrong about that my self, because in europe they run a lot of sets when they have two PG primary ball handlers and 1 wing and two bigs, or 2 wings and 1 big. they dont really run a lot of traditional NBA PG SG line ups. I am sure they have been working with his shot and his offence. lets bench or trade burke and let Sato sink or swim. Worst case he sinks and we go back to burke or we pull a vet off the street, which is what we are going to be doing any way. Maybe sato can consistently start playing like that night he started.

[stevemcqueen1]

You know what I would offer the lakers.
I would offer them a 2017 first and second, nicholson/smith / burke For Clarkson/zubac or nance (their choice)/peace
this deal actually save them money and they get another first and second in a good draft.
I feel like the lakers would probably be ok with moving clarkson and Zubac for a first and a second. smith is a decent vet and nicholson is on a decent enough contract and like I said it saves them money next year. They can then go and move Lou to a more desperate team for a first, like the Jazz or Pacers or something like that.

I'm not really that interested in Nance. He's good, but I would want Zubac specifically to groom as Gortat's replacement. I also don't really care too much about getting Lou back in that deal. It was just a way for the Lakers to tank and unblock minutes for Clarkson. I wouldn't add too many assets to the package to get Lou, my target would be Zubac.

If we got him, then in the offseason I'd deal either Gortat or Mahinmi. Probably Gortat as I think he'd have good trade value.

[NatP4]

Satoransky is the playmaking point guard, but you want a combo guard that can handle the ball also because sato struggles somewhat handling the ball, you also want a player that can shoot off all because Sato is not much of a spot up shooter yet, Burke needs to be replaced because all he does is dribble the air out of the ball and jack up setback deep 2s, he can't even setup the offense, can't attack the basket, can't create shots for other guys.

Satoransky hasn't proven he's a playmaker. I don't see him making a lot of plays. I see him dribbling a lot and creating very little. This is mainly because he can't shoot and he's not skilled or quick enough off the bounce to compensate and get into the lane.

Burke is a horrifically bad player. He's definitely not a PG and shows cracks in his handle and decision making when he's pressed. However he can make a shot. The offensive flow basically stops when Sato is forced to run the offense. It may also stop when Burke is PG but at least you can run some semblance of an effective P&R with Burke. At least Burke can make a shot or create a play here and there.

I want Burke benched as bad as the next guy but putting the ball in Sato's hands leads to nowhere. Now Sato's defense is worlds better than Burke and probably offsets any advantage Burke gives them offensively IMO but to call Satoransky a playmaker is incorrect. I also don't think the coaching staff has confidence in Sato to run the offense and rightfully so.

It's frustrating to see Sato and Burke out there together. Don't know what they've been told, but Burke always seems to believe he's the PG. That makes Sato pretty useless (and everyone else there too). It's hard to look good in that situation.
I agree that Sato hasn't shown enough to be anointed the backup PG, but he hasn't been given enough opportunity. I'd like to see him out there without Burke and told, the backup PG job is yours if you go out and earn it.

THIS, thank you for wording it how i couldn't, we don't "see" enough of Sato for reasons that aren't always his fault.

[NatP4]

Burke is a horrifically bad player. He's definitely not a PG and shows cracks in his handle and decision making when he's pressed. However he can make a shot. The offensive flow basically stops when Sato is forced to run the offense. It may also stop when Burke is PG but at least you can run some semblance of an effective P&R with Burke. At least Burke can make a shot or create a play here and there.

Yes. Burke is essentially the only shooter on the roster outside of Beal and Porter. He's doing the job of a SG on the second unit. He does it poorly, but there isn't anybody else.

One game does not make a career. Sato has been given opportunities to handle the ball in many situations and he plays each possession as if he's afraid to make a mistake. That's not what a playoff team needs right now, a tenative rookie point guard. Maybe he'll be more aggressive next season and will have a more defined role, hopefully when he adds 10-15lbs. What he did in Europe is about as important as Burke being college player of the year at Michigan.

Agreed. We need to stop fooling ourselves into thinking that Sato's only problem is that he hasn't been given a chance. Sato has had chances. He has so far proven to be way too tentative on offense, and has shown no ability to make plays or create enough separation to bend a defense. The only thing that he has done well (and it's no small thing) is play defense.

I just completely disagree nate, he's had an adjustment period, but Sato has so much ore game that we haven't seen yet, his one concern coming over was his defense and he's been great in that regard. The dude is a POINT GUARD, meaning, give him the ball and set him a screen and space the floor and he will find the open guy every time. We throw him in the corner and let burke run EVERYTHING, imagine if we did that to John alongside burke, it would be horrible. everyone on that 2nd unit has sucked offensively except morris, who can create his own shot, because burke sucks at running the show, plain and simple, Satoransky needs more opportunity. just wait

theres a reason fran fraschilla said he was a top 15 pick type of talent. Burke is the problem, not Satoransky

also: I'm telling you guys, Sato is in the form of an Otto Porter type, he's unselfish, worried about stepping on toes type of thing, he's not overly aggressive ever, people said the same things about otto, he plays scared and he won't shoot. These are the type of dudes that win championships though, unselfish, move the ball, work for the best shot. I can't wait until we actually unleash Sato

[NatP4]

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2015/10/26/9603978/tomas-satoransky-fran-fraschilla-washington-wizards-second-round-pick-analysis

yes, i just linked bulletsforever. sorry

notice how franschilla says clearly "he can play off ball in some spots, but he's a playmaking point guard primarily, NOT A COMBO GUARD" anyone who has watched him with Barca and the Czech national team already knows this stuff, you wonder why those people who were fans of him before he was a wizard watch our games and say #freesato on twitter?

you misuse any player that is trying to make a transition from Euro to the NBA, he's gonna struggle, and yet he's still posting top 10 advanced defensive stats.

[gambitx777]

You know what I would offer the lakers.
I would offer them a 2017 first and second, nicholson/smith / burke For Clarkson/zubac or nance (their choice)/peace
this deal actually save them money and they get another first and second in a good draft.
I feel like the lakers would probably be ok with moving clarkson and Zubac for a first and a second. smith is a decent vet and nicholson is on a decent enough contract and like I said it saves them money next year. They can then go and move Lou to a more desperate team for a first, like the Jazz or Pacers or something like that.

I'm not really that interested in Nance. He's good, but I would want Zubac specifically to groom as Gortat's replacement. I also don't really care too much about getting Lou back in that deal. It was just a way for the Lakers to tank and unblock minutes for Clarkson. I wouldn't add too many assets to the package to get Lou, my target would be Zubac.

If we got him, then in the offseason I'd deal either Gortat or Mahinmi. Probably Gortat as I think he'd have good trade value.

Well I was talking about a clarkson trade not Lou, I would much rather offer a first and a second in a good draft to get Clearkson and zubac than anything having to do with Lou williams. Clarkson would be the 3ed guard we need, Can handle back up point and play next to beal and back up SG duties would look nice next to wall cuz any one does and Sato with his defence, letting clarkson play SG for a bit and let Sato handle the ball that would be interesting. I mentioned Nance because he fills more of a need but yes I would love Zubac, plus it would give us more incentive to move Mahinmi.
Yes, I know if we ever traded or Clarkson PIF would go bannanas about how would already would have had him if we had not traded him in the first place for cash. lol.

But on Lou. Look I get that if we loose burke, which we would need to cuz they could never ever play together. But we could in theory hide him on D enough between Kelley and Sato but keep in mind, they are good young athletic defenders, but they are not magic defenders either. You can only do so much to hide a guy who just does not want to play defence, there is being a bad defender and trying and there is just taking half the game off because you don't like playing defence. That is what Lou does pretty much most of the time he plays.

[popper]

Is Chalmers still out there? Does he have anything left?

[80sballboy]

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2015/10/26/9603978/tomas-satoransky-fran-fraschilla-washington-wizards-second-round-pick-analysis

yes, i just linked bulletsforever. sorry

notice how franschilla says clearly "he can play off ball in some spots, but he's a playmaking point guard primarily, NOT A COMBO GUARD"

Because Fran Fraschilla never overhypes Euro players. Ever.