Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion 3: About Last Knight

Fo-Real · Post #1181 » by **Fo-Real** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:23 am

Please no

AtheJ415 · Post #1182 » by **AtheJ415** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:44 am

jredsaz wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:I do not for the life of me understand the desperation shown by some here to trade a bunch for a superstar. Essentially, begging for us to become the Houston Rockets--with a token superstar and no prayer of contending unless a few others join, but we'd be in the playoffs every year.

The goal isn't to simply make the playoffs. The best chance of contending is to play to our strengths (drafting), and not rush things. Trading our entire core, or even just a lot of it, for anyone is asinine.

No offense but odds are drafting and waiting will produce the same results. It will simply take longer to get there. I HOPE the Suns find the next Steph Curry in Lonzo ball, or Josh Jackson, or Markel Fultz but odds run strong against that.

Even with drafting well and building methodically we will be most likely top out somewhere around where the Rockets are right now. Adding stars gets you closer faster and I think it's proven effective.

There are legitimate arguments for sticking to a longterm plan but to act like it will definitely lead us to a better position than a player of Hardens caliber and the 3 seed in the West is actually asinine.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

In this scenario you are saying it will take longer to fail. That is the point. The window is open for longer. And no, it's not. Not if the goal is a title. If your goal is the 3 seed in the West then you would have a point, but since it's not you really don't.

And no, I'm advocating for contending against future teams, not current superteams that are forming due to a huge cap increase and a fluke deal in which the MVP is signed to almost no money. Trading for a player of Harden's caliber does nothing. Only trading for 4 of them would be a legit threat. It is drastically, and I mean drastically, smarter to actually build around guys who will be good when the Warriors are old--not to try to piece together a team that would somehow be better then them with players their ages. That team does not exist.

AtheJ415 · Post #1183 » by **AtheJ415** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:49 am

Pretty sure we can't even trade Bender while he's hurt.

Villalobos · Post #1184 » by **Villalobos** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:51 am

AtheJ415 wrote:Pretty sure we can't even trade Bender while he's hurt.

You can. He just wouldn't have much value.

blee732 · Post #1185 » by **blee732** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:03 am

jredsaz wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:I do not for the life of me understand the desperation shown by some here to trade a bunch for a superstar. Essentially, begging for us to become the Houston Rockets--with a token superstar and no prayer of contending unless a few others join, but we'd be in the playoffs every year.

The goal isn't to simply make the playoffs. The best chance of contending is to play to our strengths (drafting), and not rush things. Trading our entire core, or even just a lot of it, for anyone is asinine.

No offense but odds are drafting and waiting will produce the same results. It will simply take longer to get there. I HOPE the Suns find the next Steph Curry in Lonzo ball, or Josh Jackson, or Markel Fultz but odds run strong against that.

Even with drafting well and building methodically we will be most likely top out somewhere around where the Rockets are right now. Adding stars gets you closer faster and I think it's proven effective.

There are legitimate arguments for sticking to a longterm plan but to act like it will definitely lead us to a better position than a player of Hardens caliber and the 3 seed in the West is actually asinine.

Sent from my SM-N920V using RealGM mobile app

I don't think the argument is to ONLY build through the draft. It needs to start there, but then you build through free agency rather than trades so you don't give up talent.

Look at the top teams:
GSW - Curry/Klay/Draymond from the draft, Durant from free agency
Spurs - Kawhi/Parker drafted, LA/Pau free agency
Cavs - Irving/Thompson drafted, Lebron both drafted and free agency. Only Love was traded.
LAC - Griffin/Jordan drafted, Paul traded

In the only cases where there was a trade (Love, Paul), they already had the necessary pieces from the draft/free agency or they just swindled the other team (BOS with the IT trade, HOU with the Harden trade. hindsight is 20/20, but doesn't change how lopsided those deals ended up being).

The only examples I can think of where a team sent a lot of assets to pick up star/superstar players are the Knicks for Melo and the Nets for the KG/Pierce. That obviously didn't work out well.

sunsbum · Post #1186 » by **sunsbum** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:22 am

Qwigglez wrote:
sunsbum wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:
Hates on rayray for having sources inside the Suns organization and shares details.
Has sources inside the Blazers organization, refuses to share details.

Actually, I live in Portland and when I read that rumor I was like "Huh, this is weird. Dame is like their Kevin Johnson there's no way they would trade him." Which is why I typed the post that you quoted. Not much later I see Blazersedge facebook post come through and say it was garbage, I then come to the board, share my new found information and pat myself on the back.

P.S. I'm still waiting for someone to take me up on my rayray bet. In case you missed it, if anyone can prove within the last 5 years that rayray nailed any trades with a credible timeline I will let you customize my sig and avatar with whatever you'd like.

You're not the only one that lives in Portland.
I have been hearing people mention that they'd rather keep McCollum over Lillard. Personally, I like them both. I hope they just try and package their picks and players for a better talent.

Yes, I have heard people in Portland say that as well, but that is a worse case scenario type of thing, not something anyone actually thinks would happen. But back to my point, whoever reported this is a fraud, and there have been no rumors of the blazers wanting to even consider trading Dame.

Stix · Post #1187 » by **Stix** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:29 am

Suns interested in Derrick Favors?
Sources have told the Tribune that the Jazz are hesitant to trade Favors before Thursday’s deadline unless they are overwhelmed by an offer. Sources have told The Tribune that the Phoenix Suns have inquired about Favors’ availability.
1 hour ago – via Salt Lake Tribune

http://hoopshype.com/rumor/1098679/

AtheJ415 · Post #1188 » by **AtheJ415** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:31 am

Zero Tolerance wrote:
Suns interested in Derrick Favors?
Sources have told the Tribune that the Jazz are hesitant to trade Favors before Thursday’s deadline unless they are overwhelmed by an offer. Sources have told The Tribune that the Phoenix Suns have inquired about Favors’ availability.
1 hour ago – via Salt Lake Tribune

http://hoopshype.com/rumor/1098679/

I'm just not sure on this. I want us to grab a 2nd big who can play some C and pair with Len long-term (I'd also prefer moving Chandler obviously), but I just don't see why we would trade much for Favors when he's soon to be a FA and Utah is in a money bind going forward with Hayward.

Stix · Post #1189 » by **Stix** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:40 am

AtheJ415 wrote:
Zero Tolerance wrote:
Suns interested in Derrick Favors?
Sources have told the Tribune that the Jazz are hesitant to trade Favors before Thursday’s deadline unless they are overwhelmed by an offer. Sources have told The Tribune that the Phoenix Suns have inquired about Favors’ availability.
1 hour ago – via Salt Lake Tribune

http://hoopshype.com/rumor/1098679/

I'm just not sure on this. I want us to grab a 2nd big who can play some C and pair with Len long-term (I'd also prefer moving Chandler obviously), but I just don't see why we would trade much for Favors when he's soon to be a FA and Utah is in a money bind going forward with Hayward.

Not to mention his knees are just as bad as Bledsoe's. He's also having a terrible year. Imagine if we traded for him and keep Bled, and next year they both have knee injuries? Hopefully it's not serious discussions or part of a 3 team trade.

mikefly3113 · Post #1190 » by **mikefly3113** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:45 am

Want your guys thoughts on this.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hx4tfmx

Phx in: Favors + Future 1st from Bos
Phx out: Tucker + Chandler + 2017 Second round
Bos in: Tucker + Chandler
Bos Out: Amir Johnson + Rozier
Utah in: Amir Johnson + Rozier + 2017 Second round
Utah out: Favors

I think this could work out really well for everyone. Even tho I love what Chandler has done this year, it doesn't make sense for him to be on the squad anymore and were gonna trade PJ thats a given. Boston gets two great defensive players to try and contend against Lebron and the cavs and Tyson would move Al Horford to a more dominant PF position in the playoffs. I really don't find anything that boston has all that desirable except for expiring contracts which we don't need but Utah needs them in a huge way. Utah replaces favors with a defensive PF who is on a great 12 million expiring contract and they get a promising cheap point guard in rozier. I love favors. I want favors. I think hes just had a tough season due to his injury and the emergence of Rudy Gobert. I think our training staff could bring him back to form and he'd be a great center for us. A legitimate post scorer that this team does not have. I do want a future 1st from Boston tho. Think Tucker and Chandler justify that.

AtheJ415 · Post #1191 » by **AtheJ415** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:04 am

mikefly3113 wrote:Want your guys thoughts on this.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hx4tfmx

Phx in: Favors + Future 1st from Bos
Phx out: Tucker + Chandler + 2017 Second round
Bos in: Tucker + Chandler
Bos Out: Amir Johnson + Rozier
Utah in: Amir Johnson + Rozier + 2017 Second round
Utah out: Favors

I think this could work out really well for everyone. Even tho I love what Chandler has done this year, it doesn't make sense for him to be on the squad anymore and were gonna trade PJ thats a given. Boston gets two great defensive players to try and contend against Lebron and the cavs and Tyson would move Al Horford to a more dominant PF position in the playoffs. I really don't find anything that boston has all that desirable except for expiring contracts which we don't need but Utah needs them in a huge way. Utah replaces favors with a defensive PF who is on a great 12 million expiring contract and they get a promising cheap point guard in rozier. I love favors. I want favors. I think hes just had a tough season due to his injury and the emergence of Rudy Gobert. I think our training staff could bring him back to form and he'd be a great center for us. A legitimate post scorer that this team does not have. I do want a future 1st from Boston tho. Think Tucker and Chandler justify that.

I'd consider it because we aren't giving up much here imo. Tucker and Chandler's only value is in the opportunity cost to trade them for picks. That said, if we can get a 1st for PJ, I would rather do that and use it in this draft to grab a big guy who fits our system, and the 2nd rounder could even net us something good depending on who all declares.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #1192 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:32 am

Gotta say -

Given the circumstances, I'm not really interested in any of what I'm reading. Not interested in Favors - unless Chandler is moved. Not interested in Drummond. Not interested in trading PJ for less than what Williams received - unless Chandler or Barbosa is involved, increasing our return. Not interested in moving Knight for nothing.

If anything interesting is to happen, I do not think it is something we have heard about.

I trust McD and his front office to negotiate this deadline. Whether that means a move is made, we cannot know. We cannot know what opportunities are available. Wanting to make a move is one thing; having a move worth making is another.

I expect to see a trope circulate this forum after the deadline: "We know we could have gotten a second for PJ, yet we did not trade for it. Now we have nothing. Stupid." I reject this line of thinking. When we represent to other teams that we will not trade for what we perceive to be a low return, we need them to believe us. I think that in the past, McD has shown teams that he will not accept second rounders for performing talent (Plumlee, Green, Tucker prior to extension (this is conjecture, but I believe such offers were made and rejected)). At least one other time, we know we told a team that a performing player (Thomas) could not be had for a low-first, only later to return and accept that first. I think that it's important to maintain our credibility, especially when the return for losing that credibility is so low (like a second). We'll need that credibility in the future, when we have more important discussions to undertake.

I expect a quiet deadline. While I'm surprised at the names being mentioned - Drummond, Lillard, etc. - I'm not liking what I'm seeing. Happy to let a couple of the vets walk for a pick. Otherwise, let's just keep going.

Damkac · Post #1193 » by **Damkac** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:56 am

carey wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:I do not for the life of me understand the desperation shown by some here to trade a bunch for a superstar. Essentially, begging for us to become the Houston Rockets--with a token superstar and no prayer of contending unless a few others join, but we'd be in the playoffs every year.

The goal isn't to simply make the playoffs. The best chance of contending is to play to our strengths (drafting), and not rush things. Trading our entire core, or even just a lot of it, for anyone is asinine.

7 years of no playoffs will do that to a fan base. They are desperate and don't like the prospect of at least one more year of **** basketball after this one.

I think that if 7 years ago Suns would decide to rebuild maybe they would be playoffs team by now. Trying to get that 8th spot year after year extended the no playoffs span ironically.
I don't mind a year of **** basketball if this means a very young and talented team that will only get better every season. What I can't stand is **** basketball while playing old guys like Chandler and Tucker heavy minutes.
Trade all vets except Dudley for his leadership. And please trade Bledsoe at the draft day. Suns never sell high, they only trade their players when their value is low. Change this and trade Bledsoe while he has all-star level stats, don't wait until he get injured again.

Look where the Warriors are. Or where the Thunder would be if not that dumb Harden trade.
Nets went into "win now mode" and they are hopeless now. Knicks would be too if not superstar potential player they got through the draft.

gaspar · Post #1194 » by **gaspar** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:57 am

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1518709&start=1720#p52778914

:lol:

Christine-In-AZ · Post #1195 » by **Christine-In-AZ** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:22 am

cosmofizzo wrote:Gotta say -

Given the circumstances, I'm not really interested in any of what I'm reading. Not interested in Favors - unless Chandler is moved. Not interested in Drummond. Not interested in trading PJ for less than what Williams received - unless Chandler or Barbosa is involved, increasing our return. Not interested in moving Knight for nothing.

If anything interesting is to happen, I do not think it is something we have heard about.

I trust McD and his front office to negotiate this deadline. Whether that means a move is made, we cannot know. We cannot know what opportunities are available. Wanting to make a move is one thing; having a move worth making is another.

I expect to see a trope circulate this forum after the deadline: "We know we could have gotten a second for PJ, yet we did not trade for it. Now we have nothing. Stupid." I reject this line of thinking. When we represent to other teams that we will not trade for what we perceive to be a low return, we need them to believe us. I think that in the past, McD has shown teams that he will not accept second rounders for performing talent (Plumlee, Green, Tucker prior to extension (this is conjecture, but I believe such offers were made and rejected)). At least one other time, we know we told a team that a performing player (Thomas) could not be had for a low-first, only later to return and accept that first. I think that it's important to maintain our credibility, especially when the return for losing that credibility is so low (like a second). We'll need that credibility in the future, when we have more important discussions to undertake.

I expect a quiet deadline. While I'm surprised at the names being mentioned - Drummond, Lillard, etc. - I'm not liking what I'm seeing. Happy to let a couple of the vets walk for a pick. Otherwise, let's just keep going.

I'm mostly in agreement with you, though I would say, a straight PJ for a (#31-39) 2nd rd pick is good in my book. This coming draft while unspectacular, is super deep with unusually varied opinions on talent ranking. Read: It's probably a good year to find/luck into a late gem.

If nothing goes down, I trust nothing was really there worth pursuing. No bitching of "why didn't we do anything?" will come from me.

I'll bet something will transpire for Phoenix, and like you believe- it'll probably come from "out of the blue". If McD can't turn a couple of the veterans into a 1st this year, he might be able to exchange some future pick(s) + players to get another high crack at this draft. There's a nice fringe benefit to "losing" a future Phoenix pick...that's losing the value of tanking. It'd be nice to fully enjoy winning a game again.

Well here we go. About 33 hours 'til deadline as I write this. Should be fun. Hoping for another McDonough Mindtrick big or small.

YouTube · Post #1196 » by **Kerrsed** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:10 am

gaspar wrote:viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1518709&start=1720#p52778914

I wonder what exactly the tweet said that he liked. When i went to the most recent tweet of his and checked the comments, i saw "Tweet unavailable", so it must have been deleted. Judging from the comments on the Magic board, im guessing it had something to do with him playing in Orlando.

gaspar · Post #1197 » by **gaspar** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:20 am

Kerrsed wrote:
gaspar wrote:viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1518709&start=1720#p52778914

I wonder what exactly the tweet said that he liked. When i went to the most recent tweet of his and checked the comments, i saw "Tweet unavailable", so it must have been deleted. Judging from the comments on the Magic board, im guessing it had something to do with him playing in Orlando.

Read on Twitter

This is the tweet he liked.

Post #1198 » by **Qwigglez** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:21 am

Kerrsed wrote:
gaspar wrote:viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1518709&start=1720#p52778914

I wonder what exactly the tweet said that he liked. When i went to the most recent tweet of his and checked the comments, i saw "Tweet unavailable", so it must have been deleted. Judging from the comments on the Magic board, im guessing it had something to do with him playing in Orlando.

Yes I wish someone screenshotted it.

YouTube · Post #1199 » by **Kerrsed** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:28 am

gaspar wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
gaspar wrote:viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1518709&start=1720#p52778914

I wonder what exactly the tweet said that he liked. When i went to the most recent tweet of his and checked the comments, i saw "Tweet unavailable", so it must have been deleted. Judging from the comments on the Magic board, im guessing it had something to do with him playing in Orlando.

Read on Twitter

This is the tweet he liked.

Thats kinda hilarious, Knight barely ever posts or likes tweets, and yet here out of the blue he found and liked that one......then proceeded to get roasted. :lol:

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #1200 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:45 am

Kerrsed wrote:
gaspar wrote:
Kerrsed wrote:
I wonder what exactly the tweet said that he liked. When i went to the most recent tweet of his and checked the comments, i saw "Tweet unavailable", so it must have been deleted. Judging from the comments on the Magic board, im guessing it had something to do with him playing in Orlando.

Read on Twitter

This is the tweet he liked.

Thats kinda hilarious, Knight barely ever posts or likes tweets, and yet here out of the blue he found and liked that one......then proceeded to get roasted.

Dude. Just because he's rich doesn't mean he isn't a human being.