Woj: Nets trade Bogdanovic to Wizards

[payitforward]

I'm glad CCJ likes Chris McCullough. But as they say... even Homer nods!

There were a few guys on this Board who were talking McCullough for our #19 pick in 2015 -- you know who you are!

This is CM wasn't very good his one year in college. I was surprised he was drafted at the end of R1. He wasn't very good as a rookie. Then he was injured. I haven't looked at the highlight reel CCJ posted yet. I'm sure I'll enjoy it, but it won't mean anything about whether he's a good player. Anybody who's in the NBA long enough to ask where the coffee cups are has a highlight reel.

The idea that he is a reasonable substitute for a R1 pick this year is just plain silly. Picked in a less good draft at a position lower than ours will be and hasn't shown a thing in 2 years. Yes, he's on a cheap contract for a few years, but you can look at that another way too -- he's guaranteed for those years but may be unplayable.

As to Bogdanovic, sorry he's a below average SF. I can't see how he brings anything at all to this team. Those who think they can bend reality w/ the power of their mind(lessness) will be saying he's going to back up Beal at the 2. No. He's not a 2. They'll be saying he's a good 3-point shooter. No. He's an average 3-point shooter or just a tiny bit better.

Overall he's a little above average scorer. But, he's low on offensive boards, low on assists, high on turnovers, low on blocks & low on steals compared to an average 3 in the league. In all, he is a decidedly below average player. By all accounts a crappy defender too.

This was not a trade to help us, because it won't help us. He won't play much after the first few games. Chris McCullough won't play much if at all either this year.

This was Ernie Grunfeld cleverly hiding one of his off season blunders -- one of his really bad ones. I doubt we'll give Bojan his qualifying offer. Another asset burned. Too bad.

Then again... we are 18-3 in our last 21 games. At least Nicholson is gone.

[JWizmentality]

I'm not saying this was a good trade but thanks to the summer of suck, we had to trade a No. 1 pick to bolster our bench. You aren't getting a quality backup for a second-round pick and Trey Burke. I've been saying that all week and all the GM GMs knew once Lou was gone, that it was either going to be Bogdanovic or Shabazz, based on media reports. I don't know how we'll get any decent backcourt options for a 2nd round pick and/or Burke. We might have to wait to pick up Chalmers or somebody else that gets waived. But we must get another VETERAN guard. Too many ifs in Sato, Sheldon Mac, House and well, Burke is just Burke.

Brooks was probably involved in this and he probably knew of the success rate of late first round picks (hopefully very late) and the success of EG. Sure, we wish Bojan was more than a rental and that's what makes it tough but if helps us get to the EC finals, I'd say it worked out. McCullough is icing on the cake if he works out and I can't flush him down the toilet because the Nets didn't play him (see Yogi Ferrell) or think he's some sleeper stud because of a strong D-League. Just hope that EG/SB can pull off something before trade deadline for a backcourt player who can defend.

Also will be interesting to see how Bobo fits in. Can Oubre play the 2 with his weak handle? Can Bobo play some 4? Are stuck with the Sato/Burke backcourt or will Bobo play some 2?

This is my bottom line, too. I think if Bojan Bogdanovic helps this team advance past the first couple playoff series then it's a win.

From what I see in videos, I think McCullough may be every bit as good already as Kelly Oubre. He's got a very ready shot and he's an aggressive, confident kid who just needs to get stronger. His handle is very solid. His hands are great. He's very quick on the perimeter. This is a three and D kind of player. His three looks REALLY good.

I think McCullough is the diamond in the rough. Time will tell.

I'm not seeing it from those highlights. He won't get any minutes this year, but I won't poo poo it like others. He's too skinny though. Wait and see. Kinda looks like a more petite Andray Blatche.

[leswizards]

And if he's faced with the choice of staying for 5 years and 22-23 million per annum vs going to Philly or Brooklyn or Sacramento at 4 years and 25.8, then I think we could keep him.

If Otto thinks he can get an offer of better than $12.7 million in the 5th year after a 4 year $25.8 million contract, it would be foolish of him to take a 5 year $23 million contract. (And that assumes the first 4 years of the of the 5 year contract is structured exactly like the 4 year contract. If the wizards attempt to get a discount in the per annum in the first 4 years of the deal, the amount that Otto would need to make in the 5th year after a 4 year deal becomes even less.)

[montestewart]

Yeah, but we KNOW Ernie is dumb. I expected this and tempered my expectations.

Revised pluses and minuses

Pluses:
1) Bogdanovic could be a quality addition to the Wizards playoff run this year
2) McCullough could develop into a quality player, especially given Brooks reputation, sharing the locker room and court with some really good players, and not a lot of immediate pressure to deliver
3) Nicholson (and his contract) and Thornton are gone (if Thornton didn't block the deal). Yay!

Minuses:
1) Bogdanovic could give away more on defense than he brings on offense, while blocking Oubre's playing time and development
2) Regardless of performance, Bogdanovic is on an expiring, and could price himself off the Wizards roster, thus a 30-game rental
3) McCullough could be a bust, leaving the Wizards without any young bigs with a future.
4) Trade could end up being little more than its certainties: 1st rounder traded to move Nicholson and Thornton

I'm not as optimistic as you are CCJ, but I guess my tempered expectations leave me not too, too upset. Regardless of how the draft plays out (maybe the draft produces few finds outside the lottery, or maybe the there are many Draymonds, Crowders, etc. to be had) the move still fits EGg's pattern of trading assets to acquire not very remarkable but known players while covering past blunders. I'm not expecting this to turn out to be a home run move, but it could be a net positive, this year and/or in the future. Not cheering, not crying, just yawning.

[CobraCommander]

Yeah so I understand why we did this instead of burning up the Kings phone for Boogie...wait... no I dont...this trade wont get us past Cleveland...and I am all in on trying to win right the hell now.

[stevemcqueen1]

This is my bottom line, too. I think if Bojan Bogdanovic helps this team advance past the first couple playoff series then it's a win.

I could see Bojan playing well enough for us to the point that we will just take it for granted that we need to find a way to keep him this summer.

The mid level player market got squeezed a bit in the new CBA. They increased the max and min and rookie scale contracts, so the middle class player is the one that loses out. Not only that, but there aren't nearly as many teams with cap space as last season, when everyone had it. That means a lot of teams will only have the MLE this summer, and the teams with cap space are going to be choosing from a list of about 25-30 players who will likely command pretty big money.

Meaning it's going to be really hard for middle class players like Bojan to get more than the MLE.

We also have until next year's trade deadline to make trades to get under the luxury tax for the season. We can go into the luxury tax this summer to keep Bojan, and still get back under the tax line by either:

- cutting salary by trading Gortat or Mahinmi for cheaper contracts
- trading Jason Smith. He's a good enough player and contract that we wouldn't have to give up anything to dump his salary
- trading Bojan himself if we take a step back as a team next season

Or another possible outcome is that we've got 40+ wins at next year's trade deadline and Ted says IDGAF about paying 2 or 3 million dollars in luxury tax, we're keeping this band together.

[80sballboy]

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2017/02/wizards-trade-for-bogdanovic-what-it-means-for-washington.html

[deneem4]

Would rather went after mcdemott/mirotic and portis

[80sballboy]

Would rather went after mcdemott/mirotic and portis

They weren't going to take the Nicholson contract. That's unfortunately what this trade was all about. The Nets took it, which helps us get Otto. Had to give up a first for a rental. Don't really need Portis with Kieff.

[bealwithit]

A nice comment from a Nets fan on reddit. Good info

https://www.reddit.com/r/washingtonwizards/comments/5vnutg/nets_fan_here_i_wrote_a_long_scouting_report_with/

[Meliorus]

People on BF think Bogdanovic isn't a rental.

Saw another guy asserting that if we think of CMC as our 2017 draft pick, we're basically trading Nicholson + Thornton for Bogs.

[Mojo Amok]

A nice comment from a Nets fan on reddit. Good info

https://www.reddit.com/r/washingtonwizards/comments/5vnutg/nets_fan_here_i_wrote_a_long_scouting_report_with/

These bits stand out:

With point guards that are a step up from Isaiah Whitehead and Spencer Dinwiddie (alright, Trey Burke might be on their level), Bogdanovic will likely be more of a catch and shoot guy. He’s done pretty well as a catch and shoot player, shooting 39.4% on catch and shoot threes. He also shoots it at 40.6% on open threes, which he’ll likely have more of with a better cast around him. He has a quick, smooth release, so he’s able to get his shot up if a defender closes out well.

His sweet spots are in the corners, as he shoots 52.8% from the right corner, and 39.4% from the left corner. Above the break, he shoots it at 32.2%. This might be a symptom of the offense, where he quickly shoots up threes if the offense doesn’t work right away. Here’s a couple of looks at how he quickly catches, squares up, and fires up a shot off of a pass

I also noticed on NBA.com that His FGM%AST (percentage of made field goals that were assisted) is down to 65.1% this year from 74.3% his rookie year; I highly doubt that was either by choice, design or personal preference.

We should certainly be in position to see him have an uptick in efficiency being an off-ball player moving from the third option on the 3rd worst offense in the league to a bench role where he can play off actual stars. He still actually managed to have an ORTG which was 3 points per hundred possessions better than the Nets as a whole (106 versus 103), despite being honed in on.

He should easily be able to get over 110 here. Easily.

[80sballboy]

Read on Twitter

Huh? Well, it's obvious they are trying to get rid of Burke. But getting a 2nd back? Maybe they are just going to settle on picking up a point guard/combo guard who was waived.

[Dat2U]

CMC is not playing this season at the very minimum, maybe he'll get in the rotation next season. They've already announced that Bojan is not playing the 2.

who announced that? either he's playing the 2 or the 4, or oubre is playing the 2. they aren't dropping kelly from the rotation for this guy LOL. wheres your source?

I'd like to think that people who work for the Wizards for a living have a better idea than you. The one thing that's been announced with certainty is that the Wizards don't view Bojan as a 2. Also, have you seen this guy's lateral quickness? He cannot stay in front of a guard to save his life.

https://audioboom.com/posts/5637760-locked-on-wizards-2-23-17-booyah-with-bojan-bid-adieu-to-andrew

Bojan definitely is not a 2. That shouldn't be up for discussion. He's 6-8 225 or 230. He's not a overly quick guy. He's closer to a 4 than a 2. Kelly can defend multiple positions but he certainly doesn't have the skill of a 2. But keep in mind Nat fancies himself as someone who knows more than Brooks so when Burke is still in the lineup, Nat will inevitably blame Brooks for not putting the right lineup instead of Ernie for not addressing the actual need.

Personally I think Oubre won't lose too many minutes. In the short term we'll see a little less Morris & Smith at the 4 while Brooks goes with a backup F duo of Oubre & Bogs. Bogs will probably always guard the weaker offensive threat. Switching everything will be a bit of a problem. Bogs is no improvement over Nicholson on defense, he may be even worse.

I see the 2nd unit looking like Burke/Sato/Oubre/Bogdanovic/Mahinmi initially. Thankfully unlike Wittman, Brooks will adjust the lineup pretty quickly if things aren't working out. I could see a scenario where Bogs is too much of a defensive liability and he eventually gets benched or Brooks goes back to using Morris or Smith at the 4. Having Burke & Bogs in the lineup is pretty risky defensively. It's going to be really tough to hide both.

Which gets down to the real problem. We still haven't addressed an incredibly poor reserve backcourt and now we'll likely have to rely on the waiver wire. I was hoping Langston Galloway would get released. He'd be a real good fit.

[NatP4]

who announced that? either he's playing the 2 or the 4, or oubre is playing the 2. they aren't dropping kelly from the rotation for this guy LOL. wheres your source?

I'd like to think that people who work for the Wizards for a living have a better idea than you. The one thing that's been announced with certainty is that the Wizards don't view Bojan as a 2. Also, have you seen this guy's lateral quickness? He cannot stay in front of a guard to save his life.

https://audioboom.com/posts/5637760-locked-on-wizards-2-23-17-booyah-with-bojan-bid-adieu-to-andrew

Bojan definitely is not a 2. That shouldn't be up for discussion. He's 6-8 225 or 230. He's not a overly quick guy. He's closer to a 4 than a 2. Kelly can defend multiple positions but he certainly doesn't have the skill of a 2. But keep in mind Nat fancies himself as someone who knows more than Brooks so when Burke is still in the lineup, Nat will inevitably blame Brooks for not putting the right lineup instead of Ernie for not addressing the actual need.

Personally I think Oubre won't lose too many minutes. In the short term we'll see a little less Morris & Smith at the 4 while Brooks goes with a backup F duo of Oubre & Bogs. Bogs will probably always guard the weaker offensive threat. Switching everything will be a bit of a problem. Bogs is no improvement over Nicholson on defense, he may be even worse.

I see the 2nd unit looking like Burke/Sato/Oubre/Bogdanovic/Mahinmi initially. Thankfully unlike Wittman, Brooks will adjust the lineup pretty quickly if things aren't working out. I could see a scenario where Bogs is too much of a defensive liability and he eventually gets benched or Brooks goes back to using Morris or Smith at the 4. Having Burke & Bogs in the lineup is pretty risky defensively. It's going to be really tough to hide both.

Which gets down to the real problem. We still haven't addressed an incredibly poor reserve backcourt and now we'll likely have to rely on the waiver wire. I was hoping Langston Galloway would get released. He'd be a real good fit.

its not some crazy concept here Dat. Bojan plays the 2 or the 4 , runs off the curls and ****, posts up, plays like the 2 in our offense, oubre guards the quicker player on defense. my basic point was that he won't take minutes from oubre, which you are literally also saying, yet you wanted to find some reason to argue with me.

and you do realize that the player that brooks was playing for some 30 games, sometimes 40+ a night, just got dumped and then waived immediately, and we are 18-3 since he last played a basketball game.

[Dat2U]

People on BF think Bogdanovic isn't a rental.

Saw another guy asserting that if we think of CMC as our 2017 draft pick, we're basically trading Nicholson + Thornton for Bogs.

I can't deal with BF most of the time. Many of them spent all of 2016 trying to explain why we should get rid of Otto Porter.

CMC is a blank canvas to some fans. They can fall in love with the youth, height, athleticism, D-league highlights and create the player they've hoped and wished for. I suspect his minutes the remainder of the year will be somewhere b/w what Daniel Ochefu & Danuel House Jr has received thus far. We probably won't get a real look at him until summer league. I suspect he's got a good chance of making the roster next season for the simple fact Ernie has a big with some supposed upside to sell to Ted and the fans.

[Dark Faze]

Can you help me break down the math on our payroll for next season?

Beal = 23.8
Wall = 18
Porter = ?
Mahinmi = 16.7
Gortat = 12.8
Keef = 8
Smith = 5.2
Sato = 3
Oubre = 2
House = .9
Ochefu = .9
McClellan = .9
Martell = .8
McCullough = 1.2

I've got 94.2 million in salary from that. Does Martell's number count against our cap? What are you using for Porter's number? What do you think Bogdanovich might command? And what are you using as the luxury tax projection for next season? Is Ted against paying any luxury tax whatsoever, or is there a threshold he would accept?

-yes to Martell counting against the cap
-Ochefu, House, and McClellan are all non-guaranteed
-Max money for Porter at the current cap projection is $25.5 million
-Bogdanovich will be too expensive to keep and stay under the luxury tax line
-I think we can(or at least should) assume Ted will not pay the luxury tax next season

If we cut Ochefu, House, and McClellan, their salaries would just be replaced by the minimum contract holds that teams with less than 13 players have to account for.

I think there is a chance that Porter might not get the full 25.8 deal. Spending is going to be much more depressed this summer than it was last summer because of the lack of teams with cap space and a FA market that's pretty rich in stars.

What are people using for the projected Luxury Tax line? I saw a $122 million projection but that was from way back in July, before they redid the CBA.

Because of the spending squeeze that's expected this summer (not many teams have cap room), the 8.7 million dollar MLE is going to be the salary ceiling for the big majority of role players. I think there's a chance we could get Bojan back on less than that.

So let's say that We get Otto at a slight discount of around 22-23 million per by using the fifth year advantage. That would leave us like 6 million to spend on Bojan. That probably gets us most of the way there. I think his salary ceiling is probably that 8.7 MLE number.

And then there is always the option of dumping Jason Smith, who we could easily give away. Or trading one of Mahinmi or Gortat. Those options are painful but could make sense.

So I wouldn't say that it's a certainty Bojan walks this summer. And IMO, keeping him is the only way to make this trade look good.

Ernie won't even bother trying to do negotiate. He doesn't negotiate in these situations, just maxes. Beal was a lot more sketchy than Otto was in terms of the max and Ernie just offered it anyway before anyone else could put an offer in. Not a lot of reason to think he won't do the same here. All Otto has to say is "I feel like I'm a max player" as instructed by his agent and that will be that.

[Dark Faze]

People on BF think Bogdanovic isn't a rental.

Saw another guy asserting that if we think of CMC as our 2017 draft pick, we're basically trading Nicholson + Thornton for Bogs.

I can't deal with BF most of the time. Many of them spent all of 2016 trying to explain why we should get rid of Otto Porter.

CMC is a blank canvas to some fans. They can fall in love with the youth, height, athleticism, D-league highlights and create the player they've hoped and wished for. I suspect his minutes the remainder of the year will be somewhere b/w what Daniel Ochefu & Danuel House Jr has received thus far. We probably won't get a real look at him until summer league. I suspect he's got a good chance of making the roster next season for the simple fact Ernie has a big with some supposed upside to sell to Ted and the fans.

CWC was included simply so Ernie could defend himself against this move being against "the plan".

Trading 1st rounders for a rental is specifically against the plan, and he's not sure if he can keep Bogdan, so if Bogdan walks, then technically they are still in line with the plan since they got a young first round talent as part of the deal.

The #sowizards outcome that I'm going to go ahead on record right now and guarantee is us falling behind Toronto to the 4th seed and losing to Atlanta in 6 or 7 games with Bogdan walking in the offseason after the Suns sign him for 3 years 36 million

[Dat2U]

I'd like to think that people who work for the Wizards for a living have a better idea than you. The one thing that's been announced with certainty is that the Wizards don't view Bojan as a 2. Also, have you seen this guy's lateral quickness? He cannot stay in front of a guard to save his life.

https://audioboom.com/posts/5637760-locked-on-wizards-2-23-17-booyah-with-bojan-bid-adieu-to-andrew

Bojan definitely is not a 2. That shouldn't be up for discussion. He's 6-8 225 or 230. He's not a overly quick guy. He's closer to a 4 than a 2. Kelly can defend multiple positions but he certainly doesn't have the skill of a 2. But keep in mind Nat fancies himself as someone who knows more than Brooks so when Burke is still in the lineup, Nat will inevitably blame Brooks for not putting the right lineup instead of Ernie for not addressing the actual need.

Personally I think Oubre won't lose too many minutes. In the short term we'll see a little less Morris & Smith at the 4 while Brooks goes with a backup F duo of Oubre & Bogs. Bogs will probably always guard the weaker offensive threat. Switching everything will be a bit of a problem. Bogs is no improvement over Nicholson on defense, he may be even worse.

I see the 2nd unit looking like Burke/Sato/Oubre/Bogdanovic/Mahinmi initially. Thankfully unlike Wittman, Brooks will adjust the lineup pretty quickly if things aren't working out. I could see a scenario where Bogs is too much of a defensive liability and he eventually gets benched or Brooks goes back to using Morris or Smith at the 4. Having Burke & Bogs in the lineup is pretty risky defensively. It's going to be really tough to hide both.

Which gets down to the real problem. We still haven't addressed an incredibly poor reserve backcourt and now we'll likely have to rely on the waiver wire. I was hoping Langston Galloway would get released. He'd be a real good fit.

its not some crazy concept here Dat. Bojan plays the 2 or the 4 , runs off the curls and ****, posts up, plays like the 2 in our offense, oubre guards the quicker player on defense. my basic point was that he won't take minutes from oubre, which you are literally also saying, yet you wanted to find some reason to argue with me.

and you do realize that the player that brooks was playing for some 30 games, sometimes 40+ a night, just got dumped and then waived immediately, and we are 18-3 since he last played a basketball game.

Marcus Thornton averaged 17 minutes a game. His benching coincided with Morris breaking out. Now if you want to say Thornton was holding Morris back then you'd have to break that down for me. Benching Thornton helped but that has little to do with what were discussing now.

As far as Bogs playing the 2... I guess you could do it here and there but Oubre isn't a miracle worker. You just can't hide a player on D. Good coaches expose mismatches. Bogs on any perimeter player with a trace of scoring ability is likely a mismatch. I think he's better at the 4 where his questionable foot-speed is minimized. My real issue with your lineup is Sato at point ... we've discussed that ad nauseam... and McCullough at PF. That's definitely not happening. If there's an all bench lineup with Bogs at the 2, then Smith is the obvious option at the 4.

[NatP4]

Bojan definitely is not a 2. That shouldn't be up for discussion. He's 6-8 225 or 230. He's not a overly quick guy. He's closer to a 4 than a 2. Kelly can defend multiple positions but he certainly doesn't have the skill of a 2. But keep in mind Nat fancies himself as someone who knows more than Brooks so when Burke is still in the lineup, Nat will inevitably blame Brooks for not putting the right lineup instead of Ernie for not addressing the actual need.

Personally I think Oubre won't lose too many minutes. In the short term we'll see a little less Morris & Smith at the 4 while Brooks goes with a backup F duo of Oubre & Bogs. Bogs will probably always guard the weaker offensive threat. Switching everything will be a bit of a problem. Bogs is no improvement over Nicholson on defense, he may be even worse.

I see the 2nd unit looking like Burke/Sato/Oubre/Bogdanovic/Mahinmi initially. Thankfully unlike Wittman, Brooks will adjust the lineup pretty quickly if things aren't working out. I could see a scenario where Bogs is too much of a defensive liability and he eventually gets benched or Brooks goes back to using Morris or Smith at the 4. Having Burke & Bogs in the lineup is pretty risky defensively. It's going to be really tough to hide both.

Which gets down to the real problem. We still haven't addressed an incredibly poor reserve backcourt and now we'll likely have to rely on the waiver wire. I was hoping Langston Galloway would get released. He'd be a real good fit.

its not some crazy concept here Dat. Bojan plays the 2 or the 4 , runs off the curls and ****, posts up, plays like the 2 in our offense, oubre guards the quicker player on defense. my basic point was that he won't take minutes from oubre, which you are literally also saying, yet you wanted to find some reason to argue with me.

and you do realize that the player that brooks was playing for some 30 games, sometimes 40+ a night, just got dumped and then waived immediately, and we are 18-3 since he last played a basketball game.

Marcus Thornton averaged 17 minutes a game. His benching coincided with Morris breaking out. Now if you want to say Thornton was holding Morris back then you'd have to break that down for me. Benching Thornton helped but that has little to do with what were discussing now.

As far as Bogs playing the 2... I guess you could do it here and there but Oubre isn't a miracle worker. You just can't hide a player on D. Good coaches expose mismatches. Bogs on any perimeter player with a trace of scoring ability is likely a mismatch. I think he's better at the 4 where his questionable foot-speed is minimized. My real issue with your lineup is Sato at point ... we've discussed that ad nauseam... and McCullough at PF. That's definitely not happening. If there's an all bench lineup with Bogs at the 2, then Smith is the obvious option at the 4.

maybe they use Bogs as a stretch 4 and find some replacement for Burke, I'm not 100% where they're going with the bench lineup, but burke has to go and Smith can't play the 4. I think another move is coming