2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2

[Kobblehead]

He was 195 pound as a freshman. Now look at him.

[Duke4life831]

If anyone watched Jayson Tatum last night against Louisville, they must be blind to think he's a ball-stopper. He did everything within the flow of the offense and was dropping dimes left and right. Amazing performance.

The guys who didn't impress were Kennard and Allen who were constantly chucking and playing hero ball.

This. People who continue to say this either havent watched much Duke this year and just repeating what they have heard, or they heard this narrative before the season so they now have a biased view point while watching him and its all they look for. Last nights game wasnt out of nowhere either, thats how hes been playing.

Here is the highlights of the game last night and I did a quick little break down of how he scored last night not in transition
1st score: 0 dribbles, had possession for 1 sec
2nd score: 1 dribble, 1 sec
3rd score: 1 dribble, 1 sec
4th score: 1 dribble, 1 sec
5th score: 1 dribble, 5 secs (missed first shot than scored on the put back)
6th score: 0 dribbles, 1 sec

Watch on YouTube

The whole black hole and ball stopper thing is a narrative that he had before the season that hasnt lived up to be true.

[LloydFree]

If anyone watched Jayson Tatum last night against Louisville, they must be blind to think he's a ball-stopper. He did everything within the flow of the offense and was dropping dimes left and right. Amazing performance.

The guys who didn't impress were Kennard and Allen who were constantly chucking and playing hero ball.

This. People who continue to say this either havent watched much Duke this year and just repeating what they have heard, or they heard this narrative before the season so they now have a biased view point while watching him and its all they look for. Last nights game wasnt out of nowhere either, thats how hes been playing.

Here is the highlights of the game last night and I did a quick little break down of how he scored last night not in transition
1st score: 0 dribbles, had possession for 1 sec
2nd score: 1 dribble, 1 sec
3rd score: 1 dribble, 1 sec
4th score: 1 dribble, 1 sec
5th score: 1 dribble, 5 secs (missed first shot than scored on the put back)
6th score: 0 dribbles, 1 sec

Watch on YouTube

The whole black hole and ball stopper thing is a narrative that he had before the season that hasnt lived up to be true.

The "Black hole" thing is guys pulling direct quotes from DraftExpress and using it as something they picked up from their own analysis.

[Duke4life831]

If anyone watched Jayson Tatum last night against Louisville, they must be blind to think he's a ball-stopper. He did everything within the flow of the offense and was dropping dimes left and right. Amazing performance.

The guys who didn't impress were Kennard and Allen who were constantly chucking and playing hero ball.

This. People who continue to say this either havent watched much Duke this year and just repeating what they have heard, or they heard this narrative before the season so they now have a biased view point while watching him and its all they look for. Last nights game wasnt out of nowhere either, thats how hes been playing.

Here is the highlights of the game last night and I did a quick little break down of how he scored last night not in transition
1st score: 0 dribbles, had possession for 1 sec
2nd score: 1 dribble, 1 sec
3rd score: 1 dribble, 1 sec
4th score: 1 dribble, 1 sec
5th score: 1 dribble, 5 secs (missed first shot than scored on the put back)
6th score: 0 dribbles, 1 sec

Watch on YouTube

The whole black hole and ball stopper thing is a narrative that he had before the season that hasnt lived up to be true.

The "Black hole" thing is guys pulling direct quotes from DraftExpress and using it as something they picked up from their own analysis.

Ya thats what I assume. And to me that is a little red flag I get when people talk about Tatum, to me it means they havent watched him that much or had a bias view point going into watching him and are looking for it. Like the Ringer had an article on him which I thought made some pretty good points but said some things that didnt make sense. Said he was a black hole, struggled to stay in front of defenders look at last night against Gillon, he was the only one that could stay in front of him and for some reason K decided to take him off and have Allen guard him. Then said he doesnt have a body that looks like it will put much muscle on. That made no sense to me because all I hear is how big his shoulders are and you can see how easily he is going to put muscle on. Those 3 things were are issues when he was in high school but have not been an issue at all this year, so I feel like they kind of read some old scouting reports and put it in their article.

[Arsenal]

I might put Jayson Tatum at #1 on the draft board for us. He looks like the total package on offense AND defense with prototypical big wing size. There have been Carmelo comps, but he's a lot more Paul George than Carmelo to me. I can easily see him become Paul George or even better. And he's one of the youngest guys in the class as he's still 18. He would fit into Brett Brown's motion offense perfectly.

Get Lonzo Ball and Jayson Tatum and we can build a dynasty around Ball/Tatum/Simmons/Embiid.

[Negrodamus]

Kobble, don't know if you're still watching the Memphis-Cincy game, but that Clark dunk just ended the night for Memphis. Holy ****.

[Kobblehead]

Paul George's ball skills were so insane that he had an outright combo guard game at Fresno. I don't think they're similar players. Not to mention, George was a much more explosive and graceful athlete.

Once Tatum gets some meat on his bones, the more accurate comparison is (a different Indiana Pacer) Danny Granger.

[Kobblehead]

Kobble, don't know if you're still watching the Memphis-Cincy game, but that Clark dunk just ended the night for Memphis. Holy ****.

When did it occur? I got it on DVR and ain't watching it in real time.

[Negrodamus]

Kobble, don't know if you're still watching the Memphis-Cincy game, but that Clark dunk just ended the night for Memphis. Holy ****.

When did it occur? I got it on DVR and ain't watching it in real time.

Probably 18 mark in the second half. They show it on replay enough times. Got fouled and still finished the alley oop.

[Kobblehead]

Just saw it. Clark isn't the best athlete, but dude hangs in the air somehow. Also, hiis arms gotta be way longer that his listed wingspan.

[Arsenal]

Paul George's ball skills were so insane that he had an outright combo guard game at Fresno. I don't think they're similar players. Not to mention, George was a much more explosive and graceful athlete.

Once Tatum gets some meat on his bones, the more accurate comparison is (a different Indiana Pacer) Danny Granger.

Tatum has pretty good handles. I'm not worried in the least about that. In fact, Tatum is outperforming Paul George's freshman season by virtually every statistical measure. So I'm confident in the comparison. Granger was pretty good for a few peak years, but Tatum will definitely be better than him.

[Kobblehead]

I don't like the comparison. They're too dissimilar athletically and Tatum does not have the PG skills Paul George had at Fresno.

[LloydFree]

This. People who continue to say this either havent watched much Duke this year and just repeating what they have heard, or they heard this narrative before the season so they now have a biased view point while watching him and its all they look for. Last nights game wasnt out of nowhere either, thats how hes been playing...

The whole black hole and ball stopper thing is a narrative that he had before the season that hasnt lived up to be true.

The "Black hole" thing is guys pulling direct quotes from DraftExpress and using it as something they picked up from their own analysis.

Ya thats what I assume. And to me that is a little red flag I get when people talk about Tatum, to me it means they havent watched him that much or had a bias view point going into watching him and are looking for it. Like the Ringer had an article on him which I thought made some pretty good points but said some things that didnt make sense. Said he was a black hole, struggled to stay in front of defenders look at last night against Gillon, he was the only one that could stay in front of him and for some reason K decided to take him off and have Allen guard him. Then said he doesnt have a body that looks like it will put much muscle on. That made no sense to me because all I hear is how big his shoulders are and you can see how easily he is going to put muscle on. Those 3 things were are issues when he was in high school but have not been an issue at all this year, so I feel like they kind of read some old scouting reports and put it in their article.

I'm not a huge believer in Tatum yet, but it is irritating to see guys take stuff that they clearly read/heard and try to pass it off as 1st hand knowledge.

I went back and listened to a pre-season prospect podcast, because I remembered Mike Schmitz knowingly excluded Lonzo Ball and Malik Monk from his top 10 NBA prospects and I remember being dumfounded. I couldn't remember his reasoning, though. Once I listened to the podcast again, I found that a lot of things being posted about most of these players are just regurgitated quotes from DX being passed off as 1st hand analysis.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/duncdon/2016/11/08/2017-draft-prospect-overview-with-mike-schmitz

[Negrodamus]

Taking a closer look at Ball tonight. Seen a few games this year, but maybe not watching him closely enough.

[Negrodamus]

Ball making all the right passes; players often not converting. Maybe he should shoot more.

On defense, he is purely ball watching (no pun intended). If ASU was any good, his man would back door cut constantly.

[Negrodamus]

Ball making all the right passes; players often not converting. Maybe he should shoot more.

On defense, he is purely ball watching (no pun intended). If ASU was any good, his man would back door cut constantly.

When I say "the right passes", I mean he's making unbelievable passes. Great alley oops. I've missed all of his shots though, which has been my biggest concern of his.

[Negrodamus]

Lonzo rolled his ankle. Not sure how much more we'll see of him tonight.

[LloydFree]

Ball making all the right passes; players often not converting. Maybe he should shoot more.

On defense, he is purely ball watching (no pun intended). If ASU was any good, his man would back door cut constantly.

Yeah, he's lazy on defense. Not Dennis Smith lazy, but lazy nonetheless. But I have seen him play good Defense before so I know he has it in him. He only seems to be engaged Defensively when the game is tight or his team is behind. JMO.

[Negrodamus]

Watch on YouTube

I know I just posted about him, but I want jump shooting Ish Smith as our backup PG. I know his defense will probably blow at the next level, but there are very few who sport the 30%+ Ast rate AND sub 10% TO rate. This team needs to be able to take care of the ball.

[Negrodamus]

Ball making all the right passes; players often not converting. Maybe he should shoot more.

On defense, he is purely ball watching (no pun intended). If ASU was any good, his man would back door cut constantly.

Yeah, he's lazy on defense. Not Dennis Smith lazy, but lazy nonetheless. But I have seen him play good Defense before so I know he has it in him. He only seems to be engaged Defensively when the game is tight or his team is behind. JMO.

He does a lot of things lazy. He casually tosses the ball into the post with one hand while the guy is heavily contested. Ball has always been on the mark with the pass, but that gives me anxiety.