This Team Needs To Be Blown Up.

[TheKingofSting]

We are 5-22 in our last 27 games and have lost 12 in a row on the road. What coach anywhere else in the league wouldn't be on the hotseat at the least?

One that took your franchise from a complete joke to making the playoffs 2 out of 3 years, who is well liked by the players and FO, and who has clear examples of providing some recruiting value?

Are we really blaming him for these losses?

No doubt he improved how the Hornets are viewed around the league but that is as good as some coaches ever get. He won't get us where we want to go.


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[Chuck Everett]

How could we not?

If that's the case then no coach in the league should be blamed for losses.

Roster considerations are usually taken into account.

Zach Lowe said it best. I don't remember his exact words but if our consistency of winning hinges on Cody Zeller then we're in a world of trouble. Which brings us back to Clifford's coaching.

To me, this brings the finger back to Cho, who seems to be a horrible exec. The inability to identify draft talent is the most egregious. Charlotte is right up there with Memphis, Sacramento and Dallas as the worst drafting teams in the league.

[Hornetsfan24]

You can't dump everyone, not possible. Too many bad contracts and untradable players. The only player that would get a decent haul is Kemba and Hornets would not trade him because your not going to get equal return. What we really need is health and a #2 scorer.

[catch20two]

Roster considerations are usually taken into account.

Zach Lowe said it best. I don't remember his exact words but if our consistency of winning hinges on Cody Zeller then we're in a world of trouble. Which brings us back to Clifford's coaching.

To me, this brings the finger back to Cho, who seems to be a horrible exec. The inability to identify draft talent is the most egregious. Charlotte is right up there with Memphis, Sacramento and Dallas as the worst drafting teams in the league.

I think Cho is too conservative for my likes but his strategy of drafting players with good morale and strong work ethics over raw talent has a niche. The only draft he totally pissed me off on is taking Zeller over Noel but that was partially understandable since health was a concern. Everyone thought Vonleh was a no-brainer when he fell and I wasn't opposed to drafting Frank with the late lottery pick last year.

I'm currently under belief that a lot of the moves over the past 2 years have been him appeasing to Clifford's system like a good GM should if he believes in his coach.

I'm not the biggest Cho fan by any means but Clifford's seat should be hotter imo.

[SeanBobcats]

No it definitely does not. And why did we need yet another thread for this crap?

We have one of the best starting lineups in the league and we are locked into great value deals. Its time to see what we can do in the playoffs next year.

This team could potentially contend for the #1 seed in the East next year.

With room and tradeable assets to add at the deadline...

Why would you blow that up?



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I invented the Piano Key Necktie.
What did Vivek get for Cousins?
NOTHING!

LOL

[HornetJail]

Apocalyptic threads like these remind me why I stick to r/nba these days.

[GlenRiceARoni]

Can we drop the "we suck at drafting" narrative?

Its clear we are one of the better drafting teams in the league the last several years.

Heck kaminsky chased Drummond right off the freaking floor tonight. Drummond was -20.

Kemba, mkg, and zeller are 60% of a fairly elite starting lineup.

MKG looked terrific tonight. Zeller is great on both ends. Kemba is an all-star. Frank is a solid bench/borderline starter. Biyombo just got a monster deal.

Our only real miss was Vonleh and 2nd rd picks. And everyone knew vonleh was a long term project. And we flipped him for a solid starter.

And yes we could contend for the #1 seed. 50 games COULD get the #1 next year given the disarray and age in Cleveland. We won 48 last year and could've easily won more this year.

Im only pointing that out to make you realize how ridiculous these reactions are.

We have one of the best young cores in the league between kemba/zeller/MKG/Frank. And we are adding a lotto pick in a deep draft.

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I invented the Piano Key Necktie.
What did Vivek get for Cousins?
NOTHING!

[SeanBobcats]

The truth is we do need to continue to lose games to at least get a top 10 pick, but no we do not need to blow it up. Let this team get another chance at drafting a guy with star potential with a top 10 pick in a studded draft. Hell, they'll probably just end up being conservative as usual and pick a hardworking, great bench player/decent starter over one of the few guys that have a shot at being very good. But either way we get another young guy or two to fill out our bench for next season.

Concerning our current roster, I do still think this core can be something worth developing on rather than just starting over on. I'd say keep everyone but Marvin if we can trade him. Marv looks to be on the decline as a player. Try and free at least a little bit of cap out of the deal and maybe get a player we can at least use a little off the bench. Only thing left to do in the free agency is to sign one or two players off the bench that can potentially be in the rotation.

Next season we have the same starters, except place Frank in Marvin's place. Frank is starting to show flashes of real potential and even though he still has a lot to improve upon, getting him minutes as a starter will be good for the team but even more important for Frank's development. Our bench can't be much worse than it is now, so I'd expect a pretty solid improvement through the draft and FA.

I'm saying all this as if we are gonna do it this way, but honestly I have no idea what to expect with this team, since the front office and coaching staff likely view the players totally differently than myself.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I disagree with the premise of this thread. Batum and MKG and even Marvin are luxury players, complimentary players who need to be part of team depth, not relied on as primary options. IMO the team needs improved depth, not to be blown up.

How will they get that depth?

Over the summer the Hornets will have:
1. Their draft pick(s)
2. The Mid-level exception

And that's it barring a trade.

Team needs:
1a. Good backup PG
1b, Starter who can create his own shot
3. Upgrade at backup SG (have 3, need 3&D)
4. Additional upgrades at other positions as possible.

Could be traded:
* Lamb - as others have mentioned his offensive skillset doesn't seem to match Cliff's scheme.
* Marvin - if the team has confidence in Frank as a starter
* Nic - if the team tries to turn his big contract into several cheaper players
* MKG - he's good, but the team has more pressing needs than what he brings

[JDR720]

Need to trade the bench for a bench.

[Chapelchilla]

Need to trade the bench for a bench.

That would help.

We DO NOT need to blow the team up. It needs to be tinkered with. We most need to get a tall PG who can shoot and defend. Or a back up PG and a SG. MKG and Marv should come off the bench next year with Plumlee and Bellinelli and the new PG/combo guy. If Zeller and Kemba stay healthy and Frank keeps improving we can win 50 with that team.

We do need to punt on this year though. a top pick will change our outlook a lot

[euphorbus]

"Blow it up" is a juvenile strategy. On the other hand, in refashioning the team, the only players I would say are "hands off" are Kemba Walker and Cody Zeller. The team can afford to wait until the end of the season to see if Kaminsky is more than a 31% solution. The Hornets desperately need another prime scoring option alongside Walker, and should do whatever they can to get it. The cap constraints in solving that problem right now are horrendous, and that is Mr. Cho's doing. If anyone should be on the hot seat, it's him.

[Mystical Apples]

Oh hey there.

Charlotte has 6 of the 139. Cody Zeller and Kemba Walker are currently 32 and 33, respectively.

Read on Twitter

Frank Kaminsky is the 1 Hornet out of the 55 with a positive ORPM and DRPM. Cody and Nic missed a category by a smidge.

Read on Twitter

[Mystical Apples]

Zeller's injury drops him to 81st in RPM win shares. And looking at the same information last week I found Cody trailed only Embiid in leaving expected wins on the table.

Obviously, a negative impact on wins this season but a positive sign going forward.

[EwingSweatsALot]

I'd try to find a taker for Batum and that's about it from the core. I don't mind Batum, but he takes up too much money for a guy who doesn't score. We need another scoring threat to give Kemba and Batum is about the only one that might get that in return.

Our bench got way worse from last year and we overpaid two players who had career years that had no chance of matching those numbers.

This team doesn't need to be blown up, but we hamstrung ourselves with big contracts that don't produce what we actually need. Replace Batum with a scorer and bulk up the bench and we have a decent team.

We probably don't do it and float around in no mans land for 3-4 more years though.

[JGib23]

We don't need to be blown up but, making sure we finish this season as poorly as possible from a win/loss perspective is very important to out future.

If we can turn this injury plagued season into a top 5 pick and that in turn yields a dynamic SG, we are all of the sudden back in contention for a top 4 seed in the east.

A starting 5 of Kemba, Dynamic SG, Batum, Frank, and Cody is more than solid. The Bench will be MKG, Marvin, Plumlee, and a legit backup PG hopefully acquired with MLE. (Even better if the Dynamic PG or Batum could help facilitate the 2nd unit).

If Batum can assume his real role of 3rd option/facilitator on offense we will be hard to defend.

The Plumlee trade was a fireable offense in my mind but, if we can turn this season into a top 5 or 6 pick I think that buys Cho another year.

[countryboi]

the real problem is that Batum and Marvin are not pulling their weight...we need Batum to be another ball handler and a better scorer but he is really only a third option.

[Cheeze]

Let's just state the obvious: winning changes everything, and because the Hornets aren't winning the "blow it up" crowd has ammunition to crow. The truth is that even the blow-it-up folks would be happy if the team was winning.

Let's state some more obvious stuff...

The Hornets aren't winning and something needs to change.
Charlotte is a small market team that has trouble attracting free agents. Having cap room doesn't change that.
Draft picks rarely produce at a high level right away, especially today's one-and-done teenagers. Hoping on draft picks puts you in Philly's rarified air of ineptitude.
Michael Jordan is too competitive to tank, and that's a good thing.

So let's jettison the blow-it-up rubbish, shall we? It's okay to be frustrated, but it's not okay to be stupid and thank goodness Rich Cho is not stupid.

Now let's look at some less obvious stuff...

The Hornets have lost discipline on the fundamentals and that's on Clifford, by his own admission.
Nic Batum is not a shooting guard. He's a small forward.
Cho rolled the dice on Sessions and it just didn't work out. The Hornets are simply not capable of developing a player at the backup point - by choice - due to the sharp learning curve and responsibility required.
Cho couldn't afford Lee and Lin. But Cho was savvy enough to get both players at ridiculously low cost and it got them to the playoffs. What other GM does that?
The Hornets will not make the playoffs this year and that stinks, but the framework is there for sustained success.

ALL Charlotte contracts, including Batum's are below market value. No player this side of Lebron James is worth $20M per year. None. Batum isn't worth his contract, but he was signed below his MARKET value and you need him to win, even if he's a third fiddle. Have to trade for players like him because he won't come otherwise. Same with Plumlee. Is he worth $12M? Not if you're paying the bill, but it ain't my money. Got to have Plumlees on your roster...athletic, tough, smart bigs who work. Yeah, probably worth $12M.

So, I'm optimistic in general about the Hornet's future. But it sure would be nice if they would start winning.

[CatgutStitches]

Excellent post. I think some people fail to realize that you have to build a winning attitude as well as a winning roster. If you do nothing but lose for years its really hard to dig out of that confidence hole. You need that winning swagger, and I actually like how we are building the team, regardless of its flaws.

[BobsBuddy]

Prediction 2016/2017 record 34-48,
Players retained Kemba, Batum,Frank,Williams,O'bryant,Cody,MKG
Players traded Marco, Ramon,Brob,Lamb, and anybody left on roster
2017 draft PG and/or SF.
2017 FA PG,SF, Center