Anyone else not onboard with the direction of this team? #Treadmill

[whysoserious]

bird rights and getting guys we can possibly resign dont mean squat if we CANT AFFORD TO RESIGN THEM IN THE LONG-TERM FUTURE!!!!!!

guys like i said in my original post.....Assumming we keep ppat + lowry (thats already luxury tax territory).....then 1) Cojo's def gone to shed salary, along with 1 of either ibaka or JV and finally 1 of either carroll or tucker+bruno.....THIS even if MLSE is EXTREMELY generous with the tax!!!! (BEST CASE SCENARIO)

Who says we can't afford them? Signing Ibaka over Patterson is an upgrade to the team. Lowry was signing anyways. Moving out guys like CoJo to give a rookie that's already showing he can fill in as the backup.

We weren't signing Sully anyways, now we have Tucker and his rights. We can sign him and move Carroll, the team is still good. We can move CoJo, we can move Val for SF and then maybe keep Patterson.

Stop with your ridiculousness or calling it a treadmill and we're stuck. The money committed is absolutely on the high end. But we have a lot of options to make moves too and we're stacked with youth on the back end of our roster to start pushing some of that salary out the door in various trade scenarios.

[Raptorwatcher95]

Posts like this frustrate the **** out of me. It's always the championship or bust narrative. I'm fine with rolling out a competitive team every year. I'd rather follow a franchise with a winning culture, than one that consistently sucks hoping to win the jackpot in the draft.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

exactly!

[TerryTate]

Wiggins plays 100 times better D than Derozan or JV lmao Same with Towns.

And they are young. You know what Lowry was doing at their age? Like 6 points 3 assists per game lol

You said we don't have superstars but your comparing Wiggins and KAT defense to derozan and JV defense. Like that supposed to prove a point yeah there bad defenders lol

Wiggins and KAT haven't proven they can make the playoffs let alone. Make a WCF lol. Since when is being a final 4 team a treadmill lol

Been like that for a while. You remember the Hawks making the ECF a few years back? They never had a chance, still don't. No different than us.

Treadmill

You know what's treadmill, me reading these negative threads.
Keeping making your trades in 2K and thinking you know ball. Just because you can win a championship in a video game, don't mean its that easy in real life.

#real life

[LonZoBallin]

You said we don't have superstars but your comparing Wiggins and KAT defense to derozan and JV defense. Like that supposed to prove a point yeah there bad defenders lol

Wiggins and KAT haven't proven they can make the playoffs let alone. Make a WCF lol. Since when is being a final 4 team a treadmill lol

Been like that for a while. You remember the Hawks making the ECF a few years back? They never had a chance, still don't. No different than us.

Treadmill

You know what's treadmill, me reading these negative threads.
Keeping making your trades in 2K and thinking you know ball. Just because you can win a championship in a video game, don't mean its that easy in real life.

#real life

what are you talking about? No one is making trades, are you high?

Think you might need to see a doctor. You know what's funny though? You can't argue that the Hawks aren't treadmill and our situation is pretty much identical. So you make some random point that has nothing to do with anything lol

[Caboclo]

bird rights and getting guys we can possibly resign dont mean squat if we CANT AFFORD TO RESIGN THEM IN THE LONG-TERM FUTURE!!!!!!

guys like i said in my original post.....Assumming we keep ppat + lowry (thats already luxury tax territory).....then 1) Cojo's def gone to shed salary, along with 1 of either ibaka or JV and finally 1 of either carroll or tucker+bruno.....THIS even if MLSE is EXTREMELY generous with the tax!!!! (BEST CASE SCENARIO)

Who says we can't afford them? Signing Ibaka over Patterson is an upgrade to the team. Lowry was signing anyways. Moving out guys like CoJo to give a rookie that's already showing he can fill in as the backup.

We weren't signing Sully anyways, now we have Tucker and his rights. We can sign him and move Carroll, the team is still good. We can move CoJo, we can move Val for SF and then maybe keep Patterson.

Stop with your ridiculousness or calling it a treadmill and we're stuck. The money committed is absolutely on the high end. But we have a lot of options to make moves too and we're stacked with youth on the back end of our roster to start pushing some of that salary out the door in various trade scenarios.

To be honest, and historically speaking, I doubt MLSE would be willing to put their money where their mouth is and actually seriously dip into luxury tax territory.

Honestly Lowry (35-42m) + PPat (15m) would probably be the limit and thats even pushing it. No Ibaka (20-25m) for sure on top.....no Tucker (10-13M)..... unless we somehow dump all 3 of carrol JV AND cojo. (u tell me if thats even worthwhile to trade ross + first + 2 seconds for)

keep dreaming that MLSE is gonna pay a 15mil+/annual luxury tax penalty on this team that's finally filling the seats. Our owner is a pair of the 2 most money-grubbing companies in the country.

[Mikistan]

The next step of our franchise evolution is to remain consistently strong and competitive over 5-10 years - a la the atlanta hawks

after that, you can make the leap as a franchise to contender status, but until then we need to build legitimacy as an organization. so that a generation of draft picks growing up seeing Toronto at the top of the rankings over and over

[Throwback24]

Multiple finals appearances, I'll take it.

[bozothepope]

1995-1998: We sucked.
1999-2002: We sucked less. Actually, we were good in 2001. Had VC made that bucket, we probably would've made the finals. So 1 quality year of Raptors basketball total.
2003-2005: Sucked.
2006-2008: Pretty much sucked. Couldn't win a round.
2009-2012: Sucked.
2013-Present: Hey, look - we're good. We actually have a shot of making the finals. This is incredible.

I can understand fretting about the future if you're somewhat of a new fan. But if you're like me and have been a fan since day 1, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

I have been a fan since day 1 and I share the opposite views as you. Last years ECF spoiled me and I want more. Just making the ECF isn't enough for me I want the whole ship. Call me spoiled.

Back to back ECF appearances would be incredible for this franchise. I'll ask for more if we can accomplish that.

A step up this year would be us winning Round 1 in 5 or so games, not 7.

[slothrop8]

It is possible to BOTH enjoy this greatest stretch in Raptors history AND think critically about what this franchise needs to do in order to ever be a real contender. My thinking about what needs to happen for this team to be ready to be a real contender in the post-LeBron East won't impact my enjoyment of the game tonight. Further, my thinking about what we should be doing in the future won't impact how hard Kyle Lowry tries in the game tonight.

It is very possible to be BOTH way better than a lot of teams right now AND in worse position than a lot of teams to be able to contend for a title in the future. We are one such franchise in my opinion. We have no chance at a title right now - not exactly 0% as almost literally anything can happen - but pretty close to 0%. We also don't have anyone on our roster right now who stands any kind of reasonable chance of being the #1 or #2 overall player on a Toronto Raptors championship team. Kyle Lowry is the only player we have good enough to be that kind of player - and his window to do so almost completely overlaps with LeBron's rendering his chances extremely low. He could maybe be the 5th best player on a title team here at the end of his career maybe, but almost definitely not when he'd be earning 35 million or something.

So, for me - threads thinking about what we should be doing in the long term are completely valid and interesting. They don't have to detract at all from our enjoyment of the present. After last season I made a post suggesting we were the Bronze Medalists for last season - and I loved that result. I'm hoping for a repeat ECF trip this year. I can thoroughly enjoy that, and still scheme about ways to some day get a title. Or if not a title, at least be a legit title contender. Our Bronze Medal last year and our chances of going to the ECF notwithstanding - we aren't a legit title contender - we stand virtually no chance. So thinking about down the road is interesting.
Afterall, is this RealGM or Real Passively Accept Whatever Your Franchise Does and Enjoy the Ride?

[whysoserious]

To be honest, and historically speaking, I doubt MLSE would be willing to put their money where their mouth is and actually seriously dip into luxury tax territory.

Honestly Lowry (35-42m) + PPat (15m) would probably be the limit and thats even pushing it. No Ibaka (20-25m) for sure on top.....no Tucker (10-13M)..... unless we somehow dump all 3 of carrol JV AND cojo. (u tell me if thats even worthwhile to trade ross + first + 2 seconds for)

keep dreaming that MLSE is gonna pay a 15mil+/annual luxury tax penalty on this team that's finally filling the seats. Our owner is a pair of the 2 most money-grubbing companies in the country.

There's nothing historical to look back at. While the name of the ownership group remains MLSE, it's a completely different ownership than we've had in the past. This is the first time Bell and Rogers have owned MLSE and have a chance to pay tax. Everything we've heard is that they will pay the tax for a competitive team. So your point is completely invalid.

You have no idea what is going to happen, you're assuming everyone is signed. Lowry might get his full max or maybe he gives them a slight discount. Pat is likely gone, especially if we invest in Ibaka but there are ways to bring him back. Tucker is not getting $13 million but we could bring him back and shift out Carroll's deal, we could dump CoJo for a future pick, we already got rid of Ross money.

Why wouldn't MLSE pay tax for a team that's filling the arena? Your logic makes zero sense. They are minting money right now off the Raptors and the networks are also benefiting huge from the Raptors success that doesn't get reported under MLSE revenue.

You are literally showing you have zero understanding of what's going on.

[Raptors 1995]

First off – I’m a firm believer that we need to try to win now, and this treadmill talk is nonsense…..

I'm assuming that anyone who disagrees with the direction this team is going this year are all in on "the process" in Philly? Assuming that is the only way to try to "luck" into a generational talent that is basically required to win a championship -- or ex-Celtics and ex-Lakers gifting a title to their old teammates -- (for those of the Championship or bust mentality).....look, I think we can all agree that no superstars are coming here in their prime (by choice) like a Durant; heck, even PG13 basically said he would only sign long-term with the LAL, and that is in the face of one of the least desirable LAL teams in recent memory. We aren’t a legacy team that players dreamed of playing for, we aren’t a “big market” for most young kids living in the States dreaming of becoming an NBA superstar, heck we have a much worse tax system than states like Florida or Texas --- the reality is we need some luck and an extremely smart GM to put together a “team” of guys to try to beat a generational talent – are the odds slim? Of course they are (anyone watching the NBA knows this), the league is set up to reward superstars more than any other major sport…should we just tank like apparently 28 other teams should do not named GSW/Cleve….ummm, NO……

Like some of you, I have been watching basketball for many years, long before the Raptors existed, back in to the late 70s, you really need to appreciate having a good (with gusts to Very Good) team, enjoy the ride, hope for the best, maybe you get a little lucky and things go your way, the 2004 Pistons won a title despite everything in the NBA’s recent history telling us that this was impossible….better to take a chance than to keep hoping for one that may never come…how many franchises have never even made a Conference Final? Do you see Philly getting there anytime soon? Do you want to watch 15-67 basketball for five years hoping it will work out? Was trading Nerlens Noel part of that brilliant process?

[RedX]

As opposed to..... being 29 tiers bellow contender status for another 10 years, followed by someone making a post just like this from years 1-3 after that, and than restarting the process?

K.

[CoachJReturns]

Just keep winning without get rid of 1st round picks and prospects and hope that Wiggins, Barrett or some other great player from Toronto wants to join the Raptors as a free agent some day.

[refshateRaps]

Whether we lose in the 1st round or lose in the ECF, this is as good as it gets in the Lebron era and I appreciate what the front office has done the last few seasons.

Sure as hell beats the Colangelo treadmill. IM IN

[LastNameEver]

Say you just finished dismantling the team and Cleveland sustained a blow (multiple guys out for the season) and you as a GM didn't have a team ready to capitalize off that... you would be out of a job.

[Caboclo]

To be honest, and historically speaking, I doubt MLSE would be willing to put their money where their mouth is and actually seriously dip into luxury tax territory.

Honestly Lowry (35-42m) + PPat (15m) would probably be the limit and thats even pushing it. No Ibaka (20-25m) for sure on top.....no Tucker (10-13M)..... unless we somehow dump all 3 of carrol JV AND cojo. (u tell me if thats even worthwhile to trade ross + first + 2 seconds for)

keep dreaming that MLSE is gonna pay a 15mil+/annual luxury tax penalty on this team that's finally filling the seats. Our owner is a pair of the 2 most money-grubbing companies in the country.

There's nothing historical to look back at. While the name of the ownership group remains MLSE, it's a completely different ownership than we've had in the past. This is the first time Bell and Rogers have owned MLSE and have a chance to pay tax. Everything we've heard is that they will pay the tax for a competitive team. So your point is completely invalid.

You have no idea what is going to happen, you're assuming everyone is signed. Lowry might get his full max or maybe he gives them a slight discount. Pat is likely gone, especially if we invest in Ibaka but there are ways to bring him back. Tucker is not getting $13 million but we could bring him back and shift out Carroll's deal, we could dump CoJo for a future pick, we already got rid of Ross money.

You are literally showing you have zero understanding of what's going on..

Bro lmfaoo so many things wrong with ur post i cant believe ur trying to call me out
1) lowry's supermax is 212/5years, thats why i put 35-42 as a range in my post. 35 would be the slight discounted price.
2) U actually think MLSE will pay in excess of 20m annually in luxury tax penalties? i said maybe they finally take the plunge and pay 5-15m....but 20m+? LOL im speechless....
3) Tucker damn sure is getting at least 13m in this market A beefy veteran 3+D guy? Ur right hes prob not getting 13, prob more like a 15-17m offer from the nets/lakers. Look at the contracts recently signed by worse swingmen
4) Ofc its easier to trade ross's contract. everybody and their mother can agree ross's deal is a bargain esp. given the duration. While Cojo's regressed into flaming garbage this year....ur definately not getting a (first round) pick for that lmao

U must have a sub-zero understanding of this team then...

[SalamiNcheese]

Masai made were great "win-this-year" moves, with little foresight into the future....

facts:

1) We almost guaranteed to re-signing Lowry (unless he chooses to leave), on a 5-year supermax timed exactly for his decline and will be locked into 75M/annually for our backcourt for the next 4 years min.

2) We cannot afford to resign our players this offseason. pick your poison. Having Ibaka and Tucker now just makes it harder to pick who to keep and we lose a couple draft picks...

Assumming we keep ppat + lowry.....Cojo's def gone, along with 1 of either ibaka or JV and finally 1 of either carroll or tucker+bruno.....thats even if MLSE is VERY generous with the tax

more importantly, Norm and Bebe also come off their bargain-bin contracts NEXT summer, and multiple teams will throw them mozgov/biyombo money, and we're gonna lose them 100% if we keep the status quo ...

Come 2018 season, what the hell do we have left?

3)

Lebrons only 32, Love 28, Kyrie, 24
Lowry 31, Derozan 27, Ibaka 27..(37?)

Cleveland will not be dethroned as the de-facto East Champs for the forseeable "peak" of this core (next 4 years lets say)

Next up would be the celtics who are just waiting for the right deal to strike.... Boston has a solid core already and can easily flip their propects/picks to get a true superstar when they feel like it to really take them over the top...

--
Lets not kid ourselves, with the way we've played lately, if we make it to the ECF, beating WAS AND BOS along the way, and lose to cleveland in ECF ,then that would be a success in the books of probably most fans here......and also ensure D. CASEY's tenure as coach here

...is that what really we should be striving for?

Honestly Love is done for the year. You can't keep in shape with a knee injury and even if he did come back right before playoffs hes going to be rusty and won't be able to get back to where he was. You need an offseason or two or never (Caroll for example) to recover from knee surgery. Also JR smith will probably be rusty too. They don't have the tough ass delladova who was great in playoffs. IF they get Deron williams than it will be a bit tougher.

So i would say we have a better chance this year than last. Cleveland with all the stars are worse than last year. Cleveland without love is worse.

[-TheDocOfDenial]

I don't understand. Whats the point if you are not even going to try. Last years playoff run was the most fun I've had and it happens again this year, great. Should the 2004 pistons have just not made any moves because the west was stacked. Come on.

[hankscorpioLA]

Your poll question is loaded with assumptions and extremely leading.

Do you work for the Trump Administration?

[Yorkex]

Right moves were made. It was an all or nothing shot.
If we decide to tank now , we are behind Im the east ( maybe only BKN has a worst rebuild than us )