2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2

Kobblehead · Post #141 » by **Kobblehead** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:04 am

@negro

I'm intrigued by all three Cyclones. Mitrou-Long has great SG size and the offensive game to go along with. Like Morris, he probably won't be much of a defender, though.

The highest boom/bust guy is Deonte Burton. He has lockdown defense ability and his j has potential. He has bigtime conditioning issues, though. He's 6'5" and 250 pounds. Dude is built like a bowling ball. Dude is damn nimble and explosive, regardless of his hefty frame.

Watch on YouTube

https://vine.co/v/OPP0bLFT5lI/embed/simple

Rumored 7 foot wingspan, too.

Negrodamus · Post #142 » by **Negrodamus** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:09 am

I want a Deonte Burton vs Miles Bridges matchup. It'd be like looking in the mirror.

LloydFree · Post #143 » by **LloydFree** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:09 am

Negrodamus wrote:
LloydFree wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:Ball making all the right passes; players often not converting. Maybe he should shoot more.

On defense, he is purely ball watching (no pun intended). If ASU was any good, his man would back door cut constantly.

Yeah, he's lazy on defense. Not Dennis Smith lazy, but lazy nonetheless. But I have seen him play good Defense before so I know he has it in him. He only seems to be engaged Defensively when the game is tight or his team is behind. JMO.

He does a lot of things lazy. He casually tosses the ball into the post with one hand while the guy is heavily contested. Ball has always been on the mark with the pass, but that gives me anxiety.

I don't know if the things he does like that on offense, is laziness. It seems like a bit of arrogance. And again, Dennis Smith does the same things. I think both of those guys have probably been so much better than anybody they've played against for so long, that they think they can make any play they want. They are both a bit overconfident. I don't know if that's good or bad, sometimes.

Kobblehead · Post #144 » by **Kobblehead** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:11 am

Can't afford the pre-game catering for that.

Kobblehead · Post #145 » by **Kobblehead** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:14 am

He busted Josh Jackson's *** in that road win at Kansas earlier this year.

Dropped 29 on the best defender in the draft.

Negrodamus · Post #146 » by **Negrodamus** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:18 am

Ball 0-3 from three tonight, 1-5 from the field. His threes have been pretty uncontested thus far. Maybe he's just having an off night.

Like I said, he has great vision, but I don't see much of a future as a defender from him. If people are really concerned about Fox's body translating to the NBA, I'm even more so about Ball's. And at least Fox plays incredible defense on this level.

I won't be devastated if we take him with our first pick, but I wouldn't take Tatum over him.

Negrodamus · Post #147 » by **Negrodamus** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:23 am

Every time Bryce Alford is on TV, he evolves to look more and more like Wayne Rooney to me.

Negrodamus · Post #148 » by **Negrodamus** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:31 am

I'll tell you what, between Simmons and Ball, our team would be in a constant fast break. Would definitely help out Noel's game... wait.

Arsenal · Post #149 » by **Arsenal** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:37 am

Negrodamus wrote:I'll tell you what, between Simmons and Ball, our team would be in a constant fast break. Would definitely help out Noel's game... wait.

It would be a modern day version of Showtime, except with 2 transcendent passers instead of 1.

shawn_hemp · Post #150 » by **shawn_hemp** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:47 am

I kind of hope we don't draft Isaac now. I think he might be a really good player but at the same time he could wind up like Jerami Grant too.

I still think Fultz makes the most sense if they aren't going after a free agent, but maybe they will look at Tatum and see the SF of the future.

Josh Jackson might just be another Tony Allen type of player if he never develops any sort of jump shot so if you think there's a better chance of that happening than Tatum being able to be a starter would you take Tatum over Josh Jackson?

Honestly I hope we don't have to make that choice and it's either Fultz with one of the top 3 picks or Monk with like the 5th-8th pick

sixerswillrule · Post #151 » by **sixerswillrule** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:02 pm

Arsenal wrote:Granger was pretty good for a few peak years, but Tatum will definitely be better than him.

Wow take it easy with setting these ridiculous expectations for young guys. So you'll be disappinted if Tatum "only" becomes a 25 PPG scorer on 57% TS? Didn't you also predict Jrue Holiday to be better than Chauncey Billups back in the day? And if I remember right you thought it was crazy when I called Billups a top 20 PG of all-time, even though he is easily up there.

Wilfried · Post #152 » by **Wilfried** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:10 pm

shawn_hemp wrote:I kind of hope we don't draft Isaac now. I think he might be a really good player but at the same time he could wind up like Jerami Grant too.

I thought he could shoot?

SouthJersey · Post #153 » by **SouthJersey** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:49 pm

I like Isaacs, great potential and would be happy if we wound up with him. He's skinny but I think he will have an easier time putting on weight then other skinny prospects like Brandon Ingram, Nerlens.

Vince5693 · Post #154 » by **Vince5693** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:15 pm

Kobblehead wrote:@negro

I'm intrigued by all three Cyclones. Mitrou-Long has great SG size and the offensive game to go along with. Like Morris, he probably won't be much of a defender, though.

The highest boom/bust guy is Deonte Burton. He has lockdown defense ability and his j has potential. He has bigtime conditioning issues, though. He's 6'5" and 250 pounds. Dude is built like a bowling ball. Dude is damn nimble and explosive, regardless of his hefty frame.

Watch on YouTube

https://vine.co/v/OPP0bLFT5lI/embed/simple

Rumored 7 foot wingspan, too.

Is burton project late 1st?

Kobblehead · Post #155 » by **Kobblehead** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:22 pm

Vince5693 wrote:Is burton project late 1st?

Nah, I think he'll go undrafted. I'd be targeting him with a Summer League invite.

shawn_hemp · Post #156 » by **shawn_hemp** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:58 pm

Wilfried wrote:
shawn_hemp wrote:I kind of hope we don't draft Isaac now. I think he might be a really good player but at the same time he could wind up like Jerami Grant too.

I thought he could shoot?

He does hit 3s in college but I could see him going either way in the pros.

I think the Sixers wind up with a top-3 pick and end up with one of Fultz/Ball/Jackson

And everyone who calls BC a snake will realize that he can snake his way to a top-3 pick in the lottery as well

Would prefer Fultz still, not sure if there's anything short of injuries that could happen between now and the draft that could change that

Wilfried · Post #157 » by **Wilfried** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:04 pm

Robert Williams is trending up. If we fall out top 4, I would take a gamble on him.

Simmons - Williams - Embiid would be a crazy frontcourt and Williams could be back-up C.

Arsenal · Post #158 » by **Arsenal** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:04 pm

sixerswillrule wrote:
Arsenal wrote:Granger was pretty good for a few peak years, but Tatum will definitely be better than him.

Wow take it easy with setting these ridiculous expectations for young guys. So you'll be disappinted if Tatum "only" becomes a 25 PPG scorer on 57% TS? Didn't you also predict Jrue Holiday to be better than Chauncey Billups back in the day? And if I remember right you thought it was crazy when I called Billups a top 20 PG of all-time, even though he is easily up there.

Granger only had 1 season of over 25pp36 at over 57% TS%. The rest of his career he was a lesser player. Likely due to injuries, but it is what it is. I expect Tatum to put up more than 1 of that kind of season.

And I'll be disappointed if Tatum finishes with only 16.1 VORP for his entire career like Granger did. It's not like he was good for a decade. He was only good for a few years. Even then he only made 1 all-star game.

Now do you have anything of substance to add to this conversation?

sixerswillrule · Post #159 » by **sixerswillrule** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:01 pm

Arsenal wrote:
sixerswillrule wrote:
Arsenal wrote:Granger was pretty good for a few peak years, but Tatum will definitely be better than him.

Wow take it easy with setting these ridiculous expectations for young guys. So you'll be disappinted if Tatum "only" becomes a 25 PPG scorer on 57% TS? Didn't you also predict Jrue Holiday to be better than Chauncey Billups back in the day? And if I remember right you thought it was crazy when I called Billups a top 20 PG of all-time, even though he is easily up there.

Granger only had 1 season of over 25pp36 at over 57% TS%. The rest of his career he was a lesser player. Likely due to injuries, but it is what it is. I expect Tatum to put up more than 1 of that kind of season.

And I'll be disappointed if Tatum finishes with only 16.1 VORP for his entire career like Granger did. It's not like he was good for a decade. He was only good for a few years. Even then he only made 1 all-star game.

Now do you have anything of substance to add to this conversation?

Granger had a period of two seasons where averaged 25 points at 57% TS during that period. That was within a period of 5 seasons where he averaged 22 points on 56% TS. To expect Tatum to do that at all, let alone more than that, is completely unreasonable. Is it possible? Sure. But you're setting yourself up for disappointment by saying things like you expect him to do that or he definitely will do that.

If Tatum is a role player (not saying he will be a role player) until he's 35 he'll likely have a higher career VORP than Granger whose last good season was at age 28. Longevity is one thing. Saying that he will definitely be better than him is another.

Arsenal · Post #160 » by **Arsenal** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:06 pm

sixerswillrule wrote:
Arsenal wrote:
sixerswillrule wrote:
Wow take it easy with setting these ridiculous expectations for young guys. So you'll be disappinted if Tatum "only" becomes a 25 PPG scorer on 57% TS? Didn't you also predict Jrue Holiday to be better than Chauncey Billups back in the day? And if I remember right you thought it was crazy when I called Billups a top 20 PG of all-time, even though he is easily up there.

Granger only had 1 season of over 25pp36 at over 57% TS%. The rest of his career he was a lesser player. Likely due to injuries, but it is what it is. I expect Tatum to put up more than 1 of that kind of season.

And I'll be disappointed if Tatum finishes with only 16.1 VORP for his entire career like Granger did. It's not like he was good for a decade. He was only good for a few years. Even then he only made 1 all-star game.

Now do you have anything of substance to add to this conversation?

Granger had a period of two seasons where averaged 25 points at 57% TS during that period. That was within a period of 5 seasons where he averaged 22 points on 56% TS. To expect Tatum to do that at all, let alone more than that, is completely unreasonable. Is it possible? Sure. But you're setting yourself up for disappointment by saying things like you expect him to do that or he definitely will do that.

You know what?

I EXPECT him to be better than Granger.

He's BETTER than Granger at the same age and is a MUCH MORE highly touted prospect.

I EXPECT him to be significantly better than 16.1 career VORP.

I EXPECT him to go to more than 1 all-star game.

I couldn't care less if you think that's unreasonable or not.