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College basketball and 2017 draft - One more poll after last game

Moderators: bwgood77, Qwigglez, lilfishi22

If we have the 1st or 2nd pick, and take Ball, how will you feel

Feel VERY good about the pick
7
17%
OK with the pick
14
34%
Not particularly happy with it
8
20%
Pissed
9
22%
OK at 2, but at one 1 am not happy and will explain this pick in thread
3
7%
 
Total votes: 41

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Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#861 » by kennydorglas » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:03 am

darealjuice wrote:
jredsaz wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
He sprained his ankle early on. Went to the locker room then can back out.


I know. I saw it. The other thing to consider is the offense he plays in. Its a motion offense with exceptional ball movement. I saw a stat where they have the highest team fg% in the NCAA since 91-92 Duke. He has an amazing court sense. Consistently made the right pass. Super smart player.

BUT I have played a lot of ball and I have watched more. He was defended by athletes tonight that could not get on the court in a D-League game. He struggled the two times I saw him try to drive in a half court set. It reflected the criticism on his DX video. Maybe it was the injury, maybe not. Just reporting live from Mill Ave. Lol


That's part of what is scaring me a bit with Lonzo as high as he's being talked about in the NBA. He has a lot of good shooters around him that definitely help his assist numbers out by hitting shots within the offense, we've rarely seen him run a pick and roll in college despite it being the one of the most important parts of modern NBA basketball, and he hasn't shown the same ability to create his own offense that the other point guards at the top of the draft have (% assisted at rim / % of 3s assisted; Ball: 54.7%/75%, Smith Jr: 20.4%/49%, Fultz: 17.4%/55.8%, Fox: 21%/77.8%).

His basketball IQ is probably the highest in the draft, he's shot really efficiently in college, he facilitates the UCLA offense extremely well, and he's a very, very good passer, but something about the low frequency of breaking his man down off the dribble and creating offense for himself as a point guard worries me when he gets to the NBA level.


25% on unast'd 3's is very good, especially combined with his volume and efficiency
Obviously DSJr and Fultz are huge outliers here, it's very rare to see a freshman creating nearly half of his 3's (last one was D'Angelo)
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Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#862 » by darealjuice » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:31 am

kennydorglas wrote:25% on unast'd 3's is very good, especially combined with his volume and efficiency
Obviously DSJr and Fultz are huge outliers here, it's very rare to see a freshman creating nearly half of his 3's (last one was D'Angelo)

Definitely a good point. I agree that they are outliers compared to the norm of college basketball, but they are who Ball's competing with for top point guard and their sample sizes from 3 are all very similar. I don't even mind him being assisted on a lot of 3s since those are typically better shots than a 3 off the dribble, but the amount of his points at the rim that are assisted on is insanely high. I'm honestly having trouble finding any point guard in college basketball even close to his percentage. That might be due in part to UCLA giving him a lot of lobs at the rim for a point guard, but it's even higher than guys like Josh Jackson (40%), Jayson Tatum (32.7%), and Jonathan Isaac (45.2%), which is a little worrying considering how many lobs Josh Jackson gets too.

It could all be partly because UCLA runs more of a motion offense as opposed to pick and rolls or because he's such a willing passer, but it's a bit of a red flag to me that he's not able to get to the rim on his own as efficiently as his competition in the draft.
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Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#863 » by Mulhollanddrive » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:47 am

Hi Lavar Ball / Rich Paul, we think your client would suit the Brandon Knight role.
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Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#864 » by Damkac » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:39 am

Don't worry, Suns would need to have luck in the lottery to get Ball and that will never happen.
Better get yourself excited for guys like Isaac, Ntilikina or Tatum.
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Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#865 » by darealjuice » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:35 pm

Hey guys, I'm putting together a featured post for BW in my free time to cover some of our draft prospects that will be posted around when conference tournaments are starting to wind down, so I wanted to get some community feedback on what you guys would like to see and who you'd like to have a scouting report on. I'd prefer to stick to prospects in college basketball, especially since none of the Euro prospects this year are getting major minutes for their team right now, but if there's someone you're drooling over let me know and I'll see if I can find good game footage.

My current plan is to go through traits of their game like their shooting, ball handling, passing, defense, athleticism, etc. with some gifs and statistics to help pull it all together, but I'm definitely open to suggestions. I am definitely putting one together for Markelle Fultz, Josh Jackson, Lonzo Ball, Dennis Smith Jr, Jayson Tatum, and Jonathan Isaac, but if there's anyone else at the top of the draft or a likely second rounder that you'd like one for just let me know and I'll see if I can pull something together. I'll probably put my personal big board up there too just for the hell of it.
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Re: RE: Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#866 » by WeekapaugGroove » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:48 pm

Damkac wrote:Don't worry, Suns would need to have luck in the lottery to get Ball and that will never happen.
Better get yourself excited for guys like Isaac, Ntilikina or Tatum.

To me thats the great thing about this draft. Guys like isaac and tatum are nice consolidation prizes if the ping pong balls don't bounce the suns way.

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Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#867 » by kennydorglas » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:54 pm

darealjuice wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:25% on unast'd 3's is very good, especially combined with his volume and efficiency
Obviously DSJr and Fultz are huge outliers here, it's very rare to see a freshman creating nearly half of his 3's (last one was D'Angelo)

Definitely a good point. I agree that they are outliers compared to the norm of college basketball, but they are who Ball's competing with for top point guard and their sample sizes from 3 are all very similar. I don't even mind him being assisted on a lot of 3s since those are typically better shots than a 3 off the dribble, but the amount of his points at the rim that are assisted on is insanely high. I'm honestly having trouble finding any point guard in college basketball even close to his percentage. That might be due in part to UCLA giving him a lot of lobs at the rim for a point guard, but it's even higher than guys like Josh Jackson (40%), Jayson Tatum (32.7%), and Jonathan Isaac (45.2%), which is a little worrying considering how many lobs Josh Jackson gets too.

It could all be partly because UCLA runs more of a motion offense as opposed to pick and rolls or because he's such a willing passer, but it's a bit of a red flag to me that he's not able to get to the rim on his own as efficiently as his competition in the draft.


Lavine, Jordan Adams, Norman Powell, Kyle Anderson also had a lot of assisted atempts at the rim in UCLA... it's probably a scheme thing with Alford.
Doesnt concern me much because Lonzo will never be a go-to scorer, he only takes what the defense gives or make the smart pass.
Also the fact that he never takes some deep two's is a super plus trait IMO... he seems to understand the game very well for his age.
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Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#868 » by darealjuice » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:28 pm

kennydorglas wrote:
darealjuice wrote:
kennydorglas wrote:25% on unast'd 3's is very good, especially combined with his volume and efficiency
Obviously DSJr and Fultz are huge outliers here, it's very rare to see a freshman creating nearly half of his 3's (last one was D'Angelo)

Definitely a good point. I agree that they are outliers compared to the norm of college basketball, but they are who Ball's competing with for top point guard and their sample sizes from 3 are all very similar. I don't even mind him being assisted on a lot of 3s since those are typically better shots than a 3 off the dribble, but the amount of his points at the rim that are assisted on is insanely high. I'm honestly having trouble finding any point guard in college basketball even close to his percentage. That might be due in part to UCLA giving him a lot of lobs at the rim for a point guard, but it's even higher than guys like Josh Jackson (40%), Jayson Tatum (32.7%), and Jonathan Isaac (45.2%), which is a little worrying considering how many lobs Josh Jackson gets too.

It could all be partly because UCLA runs more of a motion offense as opposed to pick and rolls or because he's such a willing passer, but it's a bit of a red flag to me that he's not able to get to the rim on his own as efficiently as his competition in the draft.


Lavine, Jordan Adams, Norman Powell, Kyle Anderson also had a lot of assisted atempts at the rim in UCLA... it's probably a scheme thing with Alford.
Doesnt concern me much because Lonzo will never be a go-to scorer, he only takes what the defense gives or make the smart pass.
Also the fact that he never takes some deep two's is a super plus trait IMO... he seems to understand the game very well for his age.


Kyle Anderson and Norman Powell were actually only in the mid 20s, but Lavine and Jordan Adams both have pretty similar % assisted at the rim to Ball, so I can definitely see it being in the scheme. Also, I don't need him to be a go-to scorer or anything, but I do think the ability to create your own offense is very important for point guards, especially nowadays. All of my concerns about it could definitely just come from the scheme, and I wouldn't be surprised if he had the ability to score on his own if he were running pick-and-rolls like all the other guards do, but I'd still like to see it more at game speed. He's still one of the best players and I'd love to have him here, it's just a nitpick/concern I have with him.
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Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#869 » by LukasBMW » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:47 pm

Hedo knows who he wants:

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Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#870 » by Damkac » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:57 pm

I would love to see the team of Ntilikina/Booker/Isaac/Bender/Len.
Elite size at every position, (potentially) great and versatile defenders, four 3-pt shooters, good passing. Much like poor man's Warriors team. Plus Warren and Chriss off the bench 8-)
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Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#871 » by Mulhollanddrive » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:37 pm

Similar to Bucks: Giannis, Snell, Middleton, Parker, Maker / Brogdon, Teletovic, Monroe

6'5 to 7'1
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Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#872 » by Damkac » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:41 pm

Yes, but unlike Bucks they can shoot :P It would be like a mix of Warriors and Bucks (if those players would develop as expected of course).
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Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#873 » by MathiasPW » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:03 pm

That really sounds like an awesome lineup. One I'd be very excited to see through growing pains.
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Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#874 » by ATTL » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:31 am

I like Tatum more than Isaac. I like Tatum's frame more and I don't want to have to worry about asthma.



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Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#875 » by LukasBMW » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:35 am

Ben Simmons is rich and he is from Australia.

If Ben Simmons was broke and from England, his name would be Josh Jackson.
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Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#876 » by LukasBMW » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:46 am

Can someone photoshop Josh Jackson in this photo?

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Re: RE: Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#877 » by WeekapaugGroove » Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:55 am

ATTL wrote:I like Tatum more than Isaac. I like Tatum's frame more and I don't want to have to worry about asthma.




I like them both but as of now i like tatum a little more. His game is so smooth and there's enough athleticism to improve on d.

Unpopular opinion but i think i like smith a little more than ball. I just feel like his game is more a sure thing to translate to the nba.

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Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#878 » by blee732 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:07 am

LukasBMW wrote:Can someone photoshop Josh Jackson in this photo?

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This got a laugh out of me, perfect gif for Jackson!

But on a more serious note I consider the event a pretty big red flag for Josh Jackson.

Context - http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article134735694.html

Following the woman to her car, regardless of what she did, shows extremely poor judgment. Kicking her car door and taillight is something even worse. And the "he's just 20/immature" excuse is BS.

I highly doubt this has a significant impact on his draft position, but it definitely lowers him in my eyes. I have no wish to have that kind of character on the team. Hopefully there's another (valid) side to this story...
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Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#879 » by darealjuice » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:20 am

Definitely wasn't smart of Jackson, the whole story between the girl and Vick goes back to last year and is pretty complicated. I still want him in Phoenix though. It's not like he beat her up or got caught with drugs lol he kicked a car after an argument.
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Re: Early look at 2017 draft & college basketball 

Post#880 » by ATTL » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:31 am

blee732 wrote:
LukasBMW wrote:Can someone photoshop Josh Jackson in this photo?

Image

This got a laugh out of me, perfect gif for Jackson!

But on a more serious note I consider the event a pretty big red flag for Josh Jackson.

Context - http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article134735694.html

Following the woman to her car, regardless of what she did, shows extremely poor judgment. Kicking her car door and taillight is something even worse. And the "he's just 20/immature" excuse is BS.

I highly doubt this has a significant impact on his draft position, but it definitely lowers him in my eyes. I have no wish to have that kind of character on the team. Hopefully there's another (valid) side to this story...


Not a good look for Jackson, for sure. Do we know of any other incidents like this that could show a pattern?

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