PG Thread (Utah) - Post all-star tank gets rolling?

[Prez]

Can he get from the lane to the corner three quicker than a ball gets passed though?

No, but he also doesn't regularly get beat off the dribble by quick guards. Our defensive scheme is terrible but Delly is also vastly overrated as an individual defender.

I feel like his defense looks fine with Thon at C but don't care enough to argue it.

Fair enough. It's a really small sample size though, need more to evaluate. FWIW he and Thon coincidentally have the two worst DRTGs on the team (again excluding Middleton for obvious reasons), again small sample for Thon though. I don't think Delly is a terrible defender or anything, I just think he's overrated in that regard and has some serious weaknesses. I think he's okay, pretty good at times.

[Prez]

I just don't get the double standard with Delly. He gets so much defense around here and excuse making about his circumstances, role, etc. but is almost universally regarded as a terrible player by all the same metrics people use(d) to trash a guy like Beasley (who I'm not necessarily saying is good btw). There's honestly a mountain of evidence pointing to him arguably being the worst player in the rotation.

He’s averaging 7.5/5 on 49.8% TS for the year
-2.74 RPM, dead last among the main rotation
-4.6 BPM, dead last in the main rotation
-4.7 net rating, dead last on the team (not counting Middleton yet)
-10.8 net on/off, dead last on the team

especially terrible later in games - shoots 30% FG and 28% 3PT in 4th quarters…only one other guy shoots sub-40% (Mirza @ 37%). literally everyone else is shooting at least somewhat respectable %s in the 4th.

while also being top 3 on the team in time of possession, and top 2 in both avg. time per touch and dribbles per touch

[Baddy Chuck]

He gets so much defense around here and excuse making about his circumstances, role, etc. but is almost universally regarded as a terrible player by all the same metrics people use(d) to trash a guy like Beasley (who I'm not saying is good btw). There's honestly a mountain of evidence pointing to him arguably being the worst player in the rotation.

I mean, you don't see a correlation between playing high minutes insanely misused and stats saying that you're not good at it? I'd say they pretty much go hand in hand.

[paulpressey25]

Thought Delly played really well the first 20 games of the year. Would a stat breakdown along those lines show that?

But yeah, he's been bad of late.

[AussieBuck]

I just don't get the double standard with Delly. He gets so much defense around here and excuse making about his circumstances, role, etc. but is almost universally regarded as a terrible player by all the same metrics people use(d) to trash a guy like Beasley (who I'm not necessarily saying is good btw). There's honestly a mountain of evidence pointing to him arguably being the worst player in the rotation.

He’s averaging 7.5/5 on 49.8% TS for the year
-2.74 RPM, dead last among the main rotation
-4.6 BPM, dead last in the main rotation
-4.7 net rating, dead last on the team (not counting Middleton yet)
-10.8 net on/off, dead last on the team

especially terrible later in games - shoots 30% FG and 28% 3PT in 4th quarters…only one other guy shoots sub-40% (Mirza @ 37%). literally everyone else is shooting at least somewhat respectable %s in the 4th.

while also being top 3 on the team in time of possession, and top 2 in both avg. time per touch and dribbles per touch

All I've said is that his levels of suck are a bit overstated and he's playing a role he shouldn't play. The second point is obviously true and feeds into the first. Is he getting any unreasonable defense from posters outside of the two new Delly guys?

[Prez]

He gets so much defense around here and excuse making about his circumstances, role, etc. but is almost universally regarded as a terrible player by all the same metrics people use(d) to trash a guy like Beasley (who I'm not saying is good btw). There's honestly a mountain of evidence pointing to him arguably being the worst player in the rotation.

I mean, you don't see a correlation between playing high minutes insanely misused and stats saying that you're not good at it? I'd say they pretty much go hand in hand.

Him being "insanely misused" equaling being asked (as a point guard) to do point guard things...is problematic.

[AussieBuck]

He gets so much defense around here and excuse making about his circumstances, role, etc. but is almost universally regarded as a terrible player by all the same metrics people use(d) to trash a guy like Beasley (who I'm not saying is good btw). There's honestly a mountain of evidence pointing to him arguably being the worst player in the rotation.

I mean, you don't see a correlation between playing high minutes insanely misused and stats saying that you're not good at it? I'd say they pretty much go hand in hand.

The point is that him being "insanely misused" equaling being asked (as a point guard) to do point guard things...is problematic.

He's an extremely limited role player tho, you don't go and get him and expect him to do stuff he can't. Sure if your GM is as smart you can get a George Hill and play him in a number of ways depending on the other guys on your team but you wouldn't ask Derek Fisher to be Steve Nash. Mirza's another guy who made a nice niche for himself in the league and was a good role player before being put in an inappropriate spot. It's just flat out incompetence. "That Delly guy really fits that off ball PG defender role and we have a need for exactly that kind of player!" "Let's go get him and have him play a completely different way on offense and have him cover for our C helping off the corner in pick and rolls while our lumbering big is showing hard 30 feet from the basket!"

[Baddy Chuck]

He gets so much defense around here and excuse making about his circumstances, role, etc. but is almost universally regarded as a terrible player by all the same metrics people use(d) to trash a guy like Beasley (who I'm not saying is good btw). There's honestly a mountain of evidence pointing to him arguably being the worst player in the rotation.

I mean, you don't see a correlation between playing high minutes insanely misused and stats saying that you're not good at it? I'd say they pretty much go hand in hand.

Him being "insanely misused" equaling being asked (as a point guard) to do point guard things...is problematic.

Hell yeah it's problematic. We (presumably) brought him in to play off of PG Giannis. Most didn't even think it would be even a 50/50 split thing. Delly isn't a guy who is running your offense. Just as Beverly has basically never been at any point during his time in Houston. These are guys who bring the ball up, get you into your set and let your stars run the sets. You (hopefully) didn't sign them to do too many point guard things. God knows Beverly does almost zero "point guard things" in Houston. And again, I think a lot of it boils down to people pining for a 3+D guard so long that they forgot what a 3+D guard actually is. Going back to Beverly, he isn't going to have some George Hill like surge if you put the ball in his hands and ask him to be your point guard. People would be bitching that he can't do "point guard things".

[AussieBuck]

[Prez]

I mean, you don't see a correlation between playing high minutes insanely misused and stats saying that you're not good at it? I'd say they pretty much go hand in hand.

The point is that him being "insanely misused" equaling being asked (as a point guard) to do point guard things...is problematic.

He's an extremely limited role player tho, you don't go and get him and expect him to do stuff he can't. Sure if your GM is as smart you can get a George Hill and play him in a number of ways depending on the other guys on your team but you wouldn't ask Derek Fisher to be Steve Nash. Mirza's another guy who made a nice niche for himself in the league and was a good role player before being put in an inappropriate spot. It's just flat out incompetence. "That Delly guy really fits that off ball PG defender role and we have a need for exactly that kind of player!" "Let's go get him and have him play a completely different way on offense and have him cover for our C helping off the corner in pick and rolls while our lumbering big is showing hard 30 feet from the basket!"

The problem with all of this is that neither his defense nor his shooting are anything noteworthy whatsoever. If he's this crazy limited an NBA point guard, he better be a sniper and his defense better be elite. Neither of which is the case with him.

[Baddy Chuck]

Also, I would like to say that I think Delly does more even more "point guard things" than Patrick Beverly is capable of.

[AussieBuck]

The point is that him being "insanely misused" equaling being asked (as a point guard) to do point guard things...is problematic.

He's an extremely limited role player tho, you don't go and get him and expect him to do stuff he can't. Sure if your GM is as smart you can get a George Hill and play him in a number of ways depending on the other guys on your team but you wouldn't ask Derek Fisher to be Steve Nash. Mirza's another guy who made a nice niche for himself in the league and was a good role player before being put in an inappropriate spot. It's just flat out incompetence. "That Delly guy really fits that off ball PG defender role and we have a need for exactly that kind of player!" "Let's go get him and have him play a completely different way on offense and have him cover for our C helping off the corner in pick and rolls while our lumbering big is showing hard 30 feet from the basket!"

The problem with all of this is that neither his defense nor his shooting are anything noteworthy whatsoever. If he's this crazy limited an NBA point guard, he better be a sniper and his defense better be elite. Neither of which is the case with him.

He's a Derek Fisher level player. Play him in his role and he's fine. Play him outside of it and he'll suck.

[AussieBuck]

*Should not that even if played in his correct role he's going to suck when carrying any leg injury as he has at points this season. Like Delfino or Duds he just can't get by with anything less than 100% mobility. Once Monroe walks there'll be no reason not to start Brogdon anyway.

[trwi7]

Thought Delly played really well the first 20 games of the year. Would a stat breakdown along those lines show that?

But yeah, he's been bad of late.

He was better in the first 20 games but he still wasn't good.

[KidA24]

Do you think Delly would suck if he was playing in Boston? Or San Antonio? Or Houston? Or Golden State?
Would Teletovic look so bad on any of those teams?
No. They wouldn't. You know why? Those teams realize what their players can and cannot do and don't demand they do more than that until they are ready.

[har13]

I wanted Delly,i admit it ,i believe he is a better player than he looks like and poor coaching is a big reason for him not be even half the player he was when he played for the Cavs but yes,he is not that good ,we need something better.

People here and the other thread fighting for who is the better GM,last time i checked no one is paying for my services or yours tho,you don't need to take the "i told you so" road.

I really believe many posters in here can do better job than Hammond , that dosn't mean anything more than that sometimes people are just lucky because someone offer them a dream job,its not maths or something that you can prove how good you are before,of course many of them are good in what they are doing but don't tell me that many of you dosn't believe that they could do a better job than Hammond and be millionaires right now.

Sometimes i believe i'm speaking with Greek fans and thats why i keep speaking about the GM and the coaches,here in Greece when the fan base decide that the coach or someone must go then the owner can't do anything,now i'm not saying that this is a good thing but i would love if you somehow could organize a fan base and start ask difficult questions or public criticize what they are doing wrong.

I know people,here is the realGM forum so you must prove how good you are ,i do that too,i just believe that maybe its a good thing if many of you or all(except the Aussies and the Greeks )find a time and a place to sit down and speak face to face and see what you like or not like about your team and the people who are running your franchise and see how what you believe can go out to the public.

I believe once again i **** up the english language,i can't promise you that my english can be better but i can promise i will stop posting so much.

Goodnight.

[Baddy Chuck]

Thought Delly played really well the first 20 games of the year. Would a stat breakdown along those lines show that?

But yeah, he's been bad of late.

He was better in the first 20 games but he still wasn't good.

I think the biggest thing early in the year was the shooting slump. The first 30 games (pre sitting out for injury) he was shooting 33% from three and even 33% in wide open threes. Post that time off he's at 42% from three and 50% on open threes which is much closer to his career norms.

Also, as weird as it sounds, I think Plumlee made a good impact (with Delly) early in the season. Delly's only value as the "point guard" Kidd is using him as is as a pick and roll passer and Plumlee was pretty much our only guy who could run the pick and roll, even if he sucked. I mean ****, we're even seeing it with Giannis this season. He's doing pretty much nothing in the pick and roll as arguably one of the biggest pick and roll threats in the league because we have absolutely nobody who can run it with him.

[AussieBuck]

Thought Delly played really well the first 20 games of the year. Would a stat breakdown along those lines show that?

But yeah, he's been bad of late.

He was better in the first 20 games but he still wasn't good.

I think the biggest thing early in the year was the shooting slump. The first 30 games (pre sitting out for injury) he was shooting 33% from three and even 33% in wide open threes. Post that time off he's at 42% from three and 50% on open threes which is much closer to his career norms.

Also, as weird as it sounds, I think Plumlee made a good impact (with Delly) early in the season. Delly's only value as the "point guard" Kidd is using him as is as a pick and roll passer and Plumlee was pretty much our only guy who could run the pick and roll, even if he sucked. I mean ****, we're even seeing it with Giannis this season. He's doing pretty much nothing in the pick and roll as arguably one of the biggest pick and roll threats in the league because we have absolutely nobody who can run it with him.

Exactly this. Pick and roll with a lob viable big is the only time Delly should be doing any non-Dudley things and even then he shouldn't be doing it much if Giannis or Mids is on court. He doesn't have to suck but we need a coach who isn't a clown. Maybe we can get Kidd a better assistant to tell him to give the ball to the talent?

[VooDoo7]

I think the majority of this board was quite happy with the Delly and Telly acquisitions. We can blame Kidd for making us all look foolish.

[har13]

He was better in the first 20 games but he still wasn't good.

I think the biggest thing early in the year was the shooting slump. The first 30 games (pre sitting out for injury) he was shooting 33% from three and even 33% in wide open threes. Post that time off he's at 42% from three and 50% on open threes which is much closer to his career norms.

Also, as weird as it sounds, I think Plumlee made a good impact (with Delly) early in the season. Delly's only value as the "point guard" Kidd is using him as is as a pick and roll passer and Plumlee was pretty much our only guy who could run the pick and roll, even if he sucked. I mean ****, we're even seeing it with Giannis this season. He's doing pretty much nothing in the pick and roll as arguably one of the biggest pick and roll threats in the league because we have absolutely nobody who can run it with him.

Exactly this. Pick and roll with a lob viable big is the only time Delly should be doing any non-Dudley things and even then he shouldn't be doing it much if Giannis or Mids is on court. He doesn't have to suck but we need a coach who isn't a clown. Maybe we can get Kidd a better assistant to tell him to give the ball to the talent?

Still hope AussieBuck ,maybe they bring another Greek to learn them how to play the pick and roll.

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