Political Roundtable Part XIII

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

[Kanyewest]

But what does he really accomplish with the order? Not much. He still doesn't have a coherent immigration strategy other than churning the status quo.

In the meantime - it is going to affect growth over time. And that is going to eventually hand things back to the Ds who will be able to (rightfully) assert that he can't govern.

The original ban was 90 days, so in the end the effect will probably be marginal. If i understood the original order correctly it was put in place because they didn't have systems in place to do thorough background checks in those countries.

In general i don't expect coherence from Trump. I expect act first think later.

I doubt he is very worried about the Ds. They have to get their own act together before they will become a legit threat. Just running around whining about Trump isn't going to get it done.

This is of course complete and utter BS. You understand incorrectly. There is already detailed and significant vetting from every one of these countries - they are the opposite of open borders, with most taking months if not a year or more to get a visa. The reason the 7 countries were chosen is due to the sloppy reasoning previously provided. They thought this was the easiest first step for a larger ban because they could base it on "some" action the Obama administration took a year back. They almost immediately indicated other countries were under consideration.

Bottom line this has little to no basis in policy. The countries chosen make no sense to anyone in this space. There are regional terrorists and international ones - banning countries which produce regional terrorists is a good way to ask them to become internationally focused.

The policy is folly and the entire national security establishment is aware of it.

Yup:

A homeland security report found insufficient evidence that banning the countries prevented terrorist activities. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/homeland-security-intel-report-disputes-threat-posed-by-travel-ban-nations-a7598796.html

[sfam]

- Trump signaled to the world that he is at war with Islam.
Perhaps so. He at least signaled to the world that he is less welcoming of Islam and has real concerns with radical Islam.

- Trump signaled to the US and the world that he doesn't make policy based on facts.
If so, then neither does Obama, who had the same concerns with those 7 nations.

At this point its hard to understand why this isn't clear. Obama made his policy after careful deliberation with the national security establishment and partners about what was needed AT THAT TIME. They did so.

That occurred a year ago. Events have occurred since then.

Stating Obama made his policy in absence of evidence is ridiculous. Stating that the same conditions Obama encountered a year ago merits a completely different approach today WITHOUT looking at events and analysis over the past year is fantasy land stuff.

This really is indefensible, yet you persist.

- Trump intensified already inflamed tensions here in the US.
This is the left wing characterization of any right wing attempt at changing policy. Republicans must capitulate to the will of the left or else they are bigots, racists or they will "inflame tensions". Why don't you accuse all the people rioting in the streets on Inauguration Day of "inflaming tensions"? Why didn't you accuse Obama for "inflaming tensions" when he willfully decided NOT to enforce immigration law? Why didn't you accuse BLM of inflaming tensions when they rioted in the streets based on the lie of "hands up don't shoot"? All of those acts are noble and good. It's justified "resistance". But a 90-day pause in immigration from 7 mostly failed states with no reliable vetting infrastructure is "inflaming tensions".

Again, my statement is actually measurable in changes in tone in both news and social media. This doesn't have to stay the realm of opinion.

The fact that a black man was President inflamed tensions from the beginning. The set of horrific stuff the right has ascribed to Obama from his character on down, while supporting a pussy grabbing womanizer who lies pathologically and constantly berates the US at all times is pretty rich. Its pretty clear which of the two ascribes to unAmerican values.

Bottom line, there is no comparison between the character of Trump and Obama. You clearly disagree with his policies, but no drama Obama never overtly tried to inflame anything. Trump is overtly about conflict and chaos at all time. Barely a month in, Turmp is in a fight with nearly everyone - Australians, Mexicans, all Muslims, the court, the FBI, the press, random celebrities, Sweden, democrats and even many Republicans. This goes to his character.

[sfam]

More inside the reality TV show that is the West Wing. They don't trust their own West Wing staff.

Press Secretary Sean Spicer is cracking down on leaks coming out of the West Wing, with increased security measures that include random phone checks of White House staffers, overseen by White House attorneys.

The push to snuff out leaks to the press comes after a week in which President Donald Trump strongly criticized the media for using unnamed sources in stories and expressed growing frustration with the unauthorized sharing of information by individuals in his administration.


Last week, after Spicer became aware that information had leaked out of a planning meeting with about a dozen of his communications staffers, he reconvened the group in his office to express his frustration over the number of private conversations and meetings that were showing up in unflattering news stories, according to sources in the room.

Upon entering Spicer’s office for what one person briefed on the gathering described as “an emergency meeting,” staffers were told to dump their phones on a table for a “phone check," to prove they had nothing to hide...

This is crazy town stuff.

[sfam]

Some details of the global displacement crisis we find ourselves in:

Global Displacement Crisis

- At the end of 2015 there were 65.3 million forcibly displaced people. They included 21.3 million refugees, 40.8 million internally displaced and 3.2 million asylum seekers.

- If they were a country they would be the world's 21st largest.

- More than half of refugees come from just three countries: Syria, Afghanistan and Somalia.

- Developing regions host 86 percent of refugees.

- Turkey hosts by far the largest number with more than 3 million refugees and asylum-seekers, including 2.7 million Syrians.

- Lebanon has the highest concentration relative to its own population with nearly one in five people a refugee.

- Globally, nearly one in 200 children is a refugee. The number of child refugees has more than doubled in the last decade.

- Growing numbers of children are crossing borders alone. Last year, more than 100,000 unaccompanied minors applied for asylum in 78 countries - triple the number in 2014.

- The U.N. refugee agency estimates more than 1.19 million people will need to be resettled next year.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

[dckingsfan]

Trump is complaining about the Senate slowing his nominations, meanwhile

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/25/politics/donald-trump-cabinet-vacancies

And this is the real problem - Trump is turning out to be just flat out incompetent and unable to get what wants.

[dckingsfan]

It is going to be interesting to see how people view this. If you are an illegal immigrant, it is probably pretty chilling:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/25/us/ice-immigrant-deportations-trump.html?_r=0

If you are an illegal immigrant, you SHOULD be chilled by the prospect of being caught violating the law. That's actually the way it's supposed to work. You should be discouraged from breaking the law.

Or if you have the wrong last name... I guess we could have him change his surname back to Clay.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/02/24/muhammad-ali-jr-detained-immigration-officials-fla-airport/98379082/

[nate33]

Trump is complaining about the Senate slowing his nominations, meanwhile

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/25/politics/donald-trump-cabinet-vacancies

And this is the real problem - Trump is turning out to be just flat out incompetent and unable to get what wants.

Congress obstructing his cabinet confirmations is what's slowing it down. He can't fill out all of those other 2000 vacancies if he doesn't have his cabinet. And the cabinet members he does have in place got in place late.

Congress is clearly trying to stall as much as possible. And this includes Establishment Republicans like McCain and Graham who recognize that Trump is a threat to their power.

[dckingsfan]

Trump is complaining about the Senate slowing his nominations, meanwhile

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/25/politics/donald-trump-cabinet-vacancies

And this is the real problem - Trump is turning out to be just flat out incompetent and unable to get what wants.

Congress obstructing his cabinet confirmations is what's slowing it down. He can't fill out all of those other 2000 vacancies if he doesn't have his cabinet. And the cabinet members he does have in place got in place late.

Congress is clearly trying to stall as much as possible. And this includes Establishment Republicans like McCain and Graham who recognize that Trump is a threat to their power.

Hey nate, that's not how I see it. He can nominate many of them now... he doesn't have his collective act together. Makes me believe that he didn't do enough research to really bolt out of the gate.

Also, you should have already talked to your potential cabinet and they have already told you who they want... you don't wait.

Incompetence. Sad.

[dckingsfan]

Some details of the global displacement crisis we find ourselves in:

Global Displacement Crisis

- At the end of 2015 there were 65.3 million forcibly displaced people. They included 21.3 million refugees, 40.8 million internally displaced and 3.2 million asylum seekers.

- If they were a country they would be the world's 21st largest.

- More than half of refugees come from just three countries: Syria, Afghanistan and Somalia.

- Developing regions host 86 percent of refugees.

- Turkey hosts by far the largest number with more than 3 million refugees and asylum-seekers, including 2.7 million Syrians.

- Lebanon has the highest concentration relative to its own population with nearly one in five people a refugee.

- Globally, nearly one in 200 children is a refugee. The number of child refugees has more than doubled in the last decade.

- Growing numbers of children are crossing borders alone. Last year, more than 100,000 unaccompanied minors applied for asylum in 78 countries - triple the number in 2014.

- The U.N. refugee agency estimates more than 1.19 million people will need to be resettled next year.

So, are you saying that we should be taking on the 1.19M? Merkel tried that and it was political suicide. Do you think Trump should do this?

Since you are from the D side (I presume, correct me if I am wrong). Are you willing to reduce entitlements by say 3% to take care of those 1.19M?

Do you think Obama's "we aren't the world's police" helped the situation?

[JWizmentality]

And this is the real problem - Trump is turning out to be just flat out incompetent and unable to get what wants.

Congress obstructing his cabinet confirmations is what's slowing it down. He can't fill out all of those other 2000 vacancies if he doesn't have his cabinet. And the cabinet members he does have in place got in place late.

Congress is clearly trying to stall as much as possible. And this includes Establishment Republicans like McCain and Graham who recognize that Trump is a threat to their power.

Hey nate, that's not how I see it. He can nominate many of them now... he doesn't have his collective act together. Makes me believe that he didn't do enough research to really bolt out of the gate.

Also, you should have already talked to your potential cabinet and they have already told you who they want... you don't wait.

Incompetence. Sad.

Also, Trump waited way too long in the process to get this started. This was always the republican strategy to do this last minute to try and ram these through then blame the dems for stalling, to avoid proper vetting of these individuals half of which have been already proven to be wholly incompetent.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Viola Davis for President.

[sfam]

Trump is complaining about the Senate slowing his nominations, meanwhile

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/25/politics/donald-trump-cabinet-vacancies

And this is the real problem - Trump is turning out to be just flat out incompetent and unable to get what wants.

Congress obstructing his cabinet confirmations is what's slowing it down. He can't fill out all of those other 2000 vacancies if he doesn't have his cabinet. And the cabinet members he does have in place got in place late.

Congress is clearly trying to stall as much as possible. And this includes Establishment Republicans like McCain and Graham who recognize that Trump is a threat to their power.

If only this were true. Unfortunately he hasn't even named them. He has nobody named. This is the issue, and its a huge one.

And he most certainly can, and should be filling out the rest of the 1500 people - they require no action on the part of the Congress. The rest of the appointees also should be actually named. Traditionally the secretaries will bring in their own people, but this is hindered in that Trump won't take anyone that said negative things about him.

This really is a problem and has nothing to do with Democrats.

[sfam]

Some details of the global displacement crisis we find ourselves in:

Global Displacement Crisis

- At the end of 2015 there were 65.3 million forcibly displaced people. They included 21.3 million refugees, 40.8 million internally displaced and 3.2 million asylum seekers.

- If they were a country they would be the world's 21st largest.

- More than half of refugees come from just three countries: Syria, Afghanistan and Somalia.

- Developing regions host 86 percent of refugees.

- Turkey hosts by far the largest number with more than 3 million refugees and asylum-seekers, including 2.7 million Syrians.

- Lebanon has the highest concentration relative to its own population with nearly one in five people a refugee.

- Globally, nearly one in 200 children is a refugee. The number of child refugees has more than doubled in the last decade.

- Growing numbers of children are crossing borders alone. Last year, more than 100,000 unaccompanied minors applied for asylum in 78 countries - triple the number in 2014.

- The U.N. refugee agency estimates more than 1.19 million people will need to be resettled next year.

So, are you saying that we should be taking on the 1.19M? Merkel tried that and it was political suicide. Do you think Trump should do this?

Since you are from the D side (I presume, correct me if I am wrong). Are you willing to reduce entitlements by say 3% to take care of those 1.19M?

Do you think Obama's "we aren't the world's police" helped the situation?

The solution I would have advocated was a much stronger "Responsibility to Protect" safe zone. This incidentally what Hillary was advocating for. Obama as best I can tell didn't believe this was possible - he might have been right, but this is water under the bridge now.

We certainly have a responsibility to be taking in far more than we are today. This is why Obama wanted this ramped up. 1.9 million is far far too much. But 30,000 is crazy small.

The larger issue though is the refugee crisis. This is THE problem facing humanity besides climate change. Terrorism contributes to it, but its honestly huge. There really needs to be well thought out systemic responses to stop the flow of refugees. This is a worldwide issue, not just from North Africa to Europe.

[JWizmentality]

Lol Sean Spicer checking aides' cell phones for leaks and demands that this event not get leaked...only to get leaked.

The rolling clown show continues...

[DCZards]

Congress is clearly trying to stall as much as possible. And this includes Establishment Republicans like McCain and Graham who recognize that Trump is a threat to their power.

Correction: They recognize that Trump "is a threat to the country."

[dckingsfan]

We certainly have a responsibility to be taking in far more than we are today. This is why Obama wanted this ramped up. 1.9 million is far far too much. But 30,000 is crazy small.

Why, if we aren't going to be the world's policeman why do we have to be the world's mama? We are saying we don't want to get engaged in the world's politics to ensure that their aren't a large number of displaced - but on the other hand we have a responsibility for taking in those displaced?

This may seem self-evident to you - but this is exactly what has turned the Europe politics to the right.

The larger issue though is the refugee crisis. This is THE problem facing humanity besides climate change. Terrorism contributes to it, but its honestly huge. There really needs to be well thought out systemic responses to stop the flow of refugees. This is a worldwide issue, not just from North Africa to Europe.

And the US is responsible for the solution? Bush tried the all-in and that didn't work. Obama tried the all-out and that didn't work. What makes you think that we can have a positive affect?

I think Obama and now Trump have essentially been moving toward isolationism. How would you sell that to an American public that doesn't want to be engaged with the problems of the world? Both the Ds and Rs are trending toward nationalism vs. globalism.

[dckingsfan]

Lol Sean Spicer checking aides' cell phones for leaks and demands that this event not get leaked...only to get leaked.

The rolling clown show continues...

This one actually bothers me... The WSP wants to be part of the press conferences but is leaking information so quickly that I can understand Trump's position. You might note that Trump seems to be winning this as more than 1/2 the country now views it as a media problem.

And you really don't want all government communications to get leaked on a consistent basis, do we? If the Ds were in power and everything were leaked - how would you view that?