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2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers

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Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#341 » by VooDoo7 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:49 am

FrieAaron wrote:
HKPackFan wrote:
FrieAaron wrote:
Warren Beatty incorrectly announced "La La Land" as the Best Picture because he was handed the Best Actress envelope (apparently) and while they were all onstage they had to make a correction that in fact "Moonlight" had won.

Have to feel for Chazelle and his crew. I thought both were great movies and am not disappointed in the result, but that's a painful way to lose.




So you mean to say the La La Land folks had to do an awkward walk off the stage and then they called up the Moonlight people!?!



Yeah that's exactly what happened.

Damn. I tuned it off after they were announced.

I thought Hacksaw should've won. But my vote don't count since I didn't see any of the other ones... :wink:
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Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#342 » by thomchatt3rton » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:00 am

FrieAaron wrote:
thomchatt3rton wrote:It's really hard to get into the Oscars when you look at the history of, say, the best picture award. They always get it wrong.


This sounds more like you have some unreasonable expectations. What do you consider "getting it wrong?" If their pick for BP doesn't exactly match up with yours? They almost always award something that's at least good.


You're right twice: I do have unrealistic expectations, and they do usually pick a movie that can best be described as "at least good".

I kid. But look up each years best picture, and compare it with a list of other notable movies that came out that year. How often do they get the one that stands the test of time?
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Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#343 » by FrieAaron » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:03 am

thomchatt3rton wrote:
FrieAaron wrote:
thomchatt3rton wrote:It's really hard to get into the Oscars when you look at the history of, say, the best picture award. They always get it wrong.


This sounds more like you have some unreasonable expectations. What do you consider "getting it wrong?" If their pick for BP doesn't exactly match up with yours? They almost always award something that's at least good.


You're right: I do have unrealistic expectations, and they do usually pick a movie that can be described as "at least good".

I kid. But look up each years best picture, and compare it with a list of other notable movies that came out that year. How often do they get the one that stands the test of time?


Of course this is true, but look at it this way: The list of nominees *alone* is over 5 times as large as the list of winners, and the list of every other movie that year is over 100 times bigger. Something like "Ordinary People" may not be as thought of as "Raging Bull" today but it's still a very good movie.
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Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#344 » by Diggr14 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:20 am

It was rigged. After last year's Oscars so White craziness.. you could take it to the bank a film that couldn't be considered white would win. Moonlight was not that good, but it was obvious that this vote would be rigged after last year's craziness.
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Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#345 » by thomchatt3rton » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:24 am

FrieAaron wrote:
thomchatt3rton wrote:
FrieAaron wrote:
This sounds more like you have some unreasonable expectations. What do you consider "getting it wrong?" If their pick for BP doesn't exactly match up with yours? They almost always award something that's at least good.


You're right: I do have unrealistic expectations, and they do usually pick a movie that can be described as "at least good".

I kid. But look up each years best picture, and compare it with a list of other notable movies that came out that year. How often do they get the one that stands the test of time?


Of course this is true, but look at it this way: The list of nominees *alone* is over 5 times as large as the list of winners, and the list of every other movie that year is over 100 times bigger. Something like "Ordinary People" may not be as thought of as "Raging Bull" today but it's still a very good movie.


What you're arguing is that a great movie can't be identified as great until years later. There's a small amount of truth to that, but it ought not to be taken too far.

I would argue that critics knew, even in 1980, that Raging Bull was better than Ordinary People. It was specifically the academy that didn't know.

I haven't looked into this, but I bet if you measured critics average scores for movies, they would outperform the academy for what stands the test of time (and standing the test of time is the ONLY objective measure for a work of art).

Also, I wonder how the Palme D'Or fares vs the Oscar for standing the test of time. I'd bet on Cannes. I do know they're willing to take more risks, which is the primary flaw in the Academy's thinking, imo.
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Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#346 » by FrieAaron » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:37 am

thomchatt3rton wrote:
FrieAaron wrote:
thomchatt3rton wrote:
You're right: I do have unrealistic expectations, and they do usually pick a movie that can be described as "at least good".

I kid. But look up each years best picture, and compare it with a list of other notable movies that came out that year. How often do they get the one that stands the test of time?


Of course this is true, but look at it this way: The list of nominees *alone* is over 5 times as large as the list of winners, and the list of every other movie that year is over 100 times bigger. Something like "Ordinary People" may not be as thought of as "Raging Bull" today but it's still a very good movie.


What you're arguing is that a great movie can't be identified as great until years later. There's a small amount of truth to that, but it ought not to be taken too far.

I would argue that critics knew, even in 1980, that Raging Bull was better than Ordinary People. It was specifically the academy that didn't know.

I haven't looked into this, but I bet if you measured critics average scores for movies, they would outperform the academy for what stands the test of time (and standing the test of time is the ONLY objective measure for a work of art).

Also, I wonder how the Palme D'Or fares vs the Oscar for standing the test of time. I'd bet on Cannes. I do know they're willing to take more risks, which is the primary flaw in the Academy's thinking, imo.


It would be interesting to be able to do this for older films. We know that some films were notoriously poorly reviewed or had mixed reviews when they came out ("Blade Runner," "Night of the Hunter"), but we probably don't have enough past reviews to get a real picture. If you take a look at criticstop10.com you'll see that the Best Picture nominees have generally done pretty well with critics. Not always number one, of course, but very often a top 10 movie. I think the Palme D'or winners are probably too unknown to the average person 70% of the time to fall into this category.
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Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#347 » by ClassicJack » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:43 am

Diggr14 wrote:It was rigged. After last year's Oscars so White craziness.. you could take it to the bank a film that couldn't be considered white would win. Moonlight was not that good, but it was obvious that this vote would be rigged after last year's craziness.


Yeah, cause THIS is how you rid yourself of any controversy. Poor, white La La Land with their SIX Oscars tonight. FOH.
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Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#348 » by FrieAaron » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:54 am

Ge out of here with "it was rigged." You know Barry Jenkins would have been the first black Best Director winner right? And if it were all just rigged to make up for #oscarssowhite, why would they do it in such a way as to make it look like a **** rather than just announcing it normally, as should have happened? It makes no sense. There were a bunch of very good movies nominated and only one could win.
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Re: RE: Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#349 » by humanrefutation » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:05 am

Diggr14 wrote:It was rigged. After last year's Oscars so White craziness.. you could take it to the bank a film that couldn't be considered white would win. Moonlight was not that good, but it was obvious that this vote would be rigged after last year's craziness.


Oh **** off with this bullsh**. So a person of color can't win an award - a well-deserved one, mind you - without it being rigged? What kind of racist **** is this?
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Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#350 » by humanrefutation » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:07 am

You can see that Beatty was holding the wrong card:

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It clearly says "ACTRESS IN A LEADING ROLE."
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Re: RE: Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#351 » by humanrefutation » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:12 am

FrieAaron wrote:
HKPackFan wrote:
RiotPunch wrote:Well, glad I watched to see La La Land get Steve Harvey'd.


Wait, what?


Warren Beatty incorrectly announced "La La Land" as the Best Picture because he was handed the Best Actress envelope (apparently) and while they were all onstage they had to make a correction that in fact "Moonlight" had won.

Have to feel for Chazelle and his crew. I thought both were great movies and am not disappointed in the result, but that's a painful way to lose.

Definitely feel bad for La La Land, not because they were more deserving (they weren't), but because that's a gut punch to think you've won a career-defining award and have it taken from you. Have to give credit to them, though - they handled it with class.
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Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#352 » by Diggr14 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:30 am

FrieAaron wrote:Ge out of here with "it was rigged." You know Barry Jenkins would have been the first black Best Director winner right? And if it were all just rigged to make up for #oscarssowhite, why would they do it in such a way as to make it look like a **** rather than just announcing it normally, as should have happened? It makes no sense. There were a bunch of very good movies nominated and only one could win.


Please. It wasn't a good movie. No matter what the card was, it was rigged before hand. There is no way this movie was the best movie of the year. It would be like giving John Henson MVP.

Yes, after last years controversy, it was obvious that Hollywood would rig this in some fashion. There were plenty of better movies, period.
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Re: RE: Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#353 » by Diggr14 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:34 am

humanrefutation wrote:
Diggr14 wrote:It was rigged. After last year's Oscars so White craziness.. you could take it to the bank a film that couldn't be considered white would win. Moonlight was not that good, but it was obvious that this vote would be rigged after last year's craziness.


Oh **** off with this bullsh**. So a person of color can't win an award - a well-deserved one, mind you - without it being rigged? What kind of racist **** is this?


That is not even close to what I said, that is just stupid to jump in with "racist" bombs. However, you dont think it's above Hollywood to rig it so a non-white movie would win? Of course they would after last year. This is what these people do now, everything is about race/gender.. and its sad. Let the best movie win. This movie wasnt even close to being the best last year, from any objective observer.

*edit, I didnt see the movie with the Iranian Director.. so I can't comment on that. I just hope they aren't giving out these awards to appease people or make political points.
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Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#354 » by thomchatt3rton » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:36 am

FrieAaron wrote:
thomchatt3rton wrote:
FrieAaron wrote:
Of course this is true, but look at it this way: The list of nominees *alone* is over 5 times as large as the list of winners, and the list of every other movie that year is over 100 times bigger. Something like "Ordinary People" may not be as thought of as "Raging Bull" today but it's still a very good movie.


What you're arguing is that a great movie can't be identified as great until years later. There's a small amount of truth to that, but it ought not to be taken too far.

I would argue that critics knew, even in 1980, that Raging Bull was better than Ordinary People. It was specifically the academy that didn't know.

I haven't looked into this, but I bet if you measured critics average scores for movies, they would outperform the academy for what stands the test of time (and standing the test of time is the ONLY objective measure for a work of art).

Also, I wonder how the Palme D'Or fares vs the Oscar for standing the test of time. I'd bet on Cannes. I do know they're willing to take more risks, which is the primary flaw in the Academy's thinking, imo.


It would be interesting to be able to do this for older films. We know that some films were notoriously poorly reviewed or had mixed reviews when they came out ("Blade Runner," "Night of the Hunter"), but we probably don't have enough past reviews to get a real picture. If you take a look at criticstop10.com you'll see that the Best Picture nominees have generally done pretty well with critics. Not always number one, of course, but very often a top 10 movie. I think the Palme D'or winners are probably too unknown to the average person 70% of the time to fall into this category.


I think you're thinking too hard about this. Look at the last 25 or so "best pictures"-- how many of those are you willing to go to bat for, in terms of the test of time?

Maybe I'm being unfair when I say, "at the time, they got them wrong", but I'm not wrong when I say they got them wrong.

How much of this is hindsight is 20/20 judgement is up for debate. There's no doubt that some mistakes can be chocked up to the times. But I think you give too much credit to the "you can't tell until later" side of things, and not enough to the "we knew Taxi Driver was probably better than Rocky, but Rocky was such a crowd pleaser" side of things.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#355 » by humanrefutation » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:39 am

Diggr14 wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
Diggr14 wrote:It was rigged. After last year's Oscars so White craziness.. you could take it to the bank a film that couldn't be considered white would win. Moonlight was not that good, but it was obvious that this vote would be rigged after last year's craziness.


Oh **** off with this bullsh**. So a person of color can't win an award - a well-deserved one, mind you - without it being rigged? What kind of racist **** is this?


That is not even close to what I said, that is just stupid to jump in with "racist" bombs. However, you dont think it's above Hollywood to rig it so a non-white movie would win? Of course they would after last year. This is what these people do now, everything is about race/gender.. and its sad. Let the best movie win. This movie wasnt even close to being the best last year, from any objective observer.

*edit, I didnt see the movie with the Iranian Director.. so I can't comment on that. I just hope they aren't giving out these awards to appease people or make political points.

Nah, that's exactly what you're saying. You're saying they only won because it's an all-Black cast. And that's racist as ****, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.
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Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#356 » by FrieAaron » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:46 am

thomchatt3rton wrote:I think you're thinking too hard about this. Look at the last 25 or so "best pictures"-- how many of those are you willing to go to bat for, in terms of the test of time?

Maybe I'm being unfair when I say, "at the time, they got them wrong", but I'm not wrong when I say they got them wrong.

How much of this is hindsight is 20/20 judgement is up for debate. There's no doubt that some mistakes can be chocked up to the times. But I think you give too much credit to the "you can't tell until later" side of things, and not enough to the "we knew Taxi Driver was probably better than Rocky, but Rocky was such a crowd pleaser" side of things.


That's where we differ, though. You're judging them based on the "test of time" and I'm just looking at whether they were good or not. Some of my favorite movies won't stand the test of time either. That doesn't mean they're not good movies. But to answer your question I think for the last 25 years I think "Silence of the Lambs," "Unforgiven," "Schindler's List," "Forrest Gump," "Titanic," "American Beauty," "The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King" and "No Country For Old Men" probably will.
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Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#357 » by Diggr14 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:46 am

Wait, because I think there are games being played by Hollywood by having a movie that wasnt very good win, because they are trying to erase the sting of last years #oscarssowhite controversy? Yeah.. that's a great reason to call someone racist. That is just trash man. That is a pretty big insult directed at a board member to make, and completely unfounded.

Yes. I 100% believe that Moonlight was a very average at best movie and was given the award as a political statement. Like Hollywood has never done that before?
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Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#358 » by FrieAaron » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:47 am

Diggr14 wrote:Wait, because I think there are games being played by Hollywood by having a movie that wasnt very good win, because they are trying to erase the sting of last years #oscarssowhite controversy? Yeah.. that's a great reason to call someone racist. That is just trash man. That is a pretty big insult directed at a board member to make, and completely unfounded.

Yes. I 100% believe that Moonlight was a very average at best movie and was given the award as a political statement. Like Hollywood has never done that before?


It was one of the best reviewed movie of the year man. It's not some sort of conspiracy. Just get over the fact that you didn't enjoy it and plenty of other people did.
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Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#359 » by Diggr14 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:03 am

FrieAaron wrote:
Diggr14 wrote:Wait, because I think there are games being played by Hollywood by having a movie that wasnt very good win, because they are trying to erase the sting of last years #oscarssowhite controversy? Yeah.. that's a great reason to call someone racist. That is just trash man. That is a pretty big insult directed at a board member to make, and completely unfounded.

Yes. I 100% believe that Moonlight was a very average at best movie and was given the award as a political statement. Like Hollywood has never done that before?


It was one of the best reviewed movie of the year man. It's not some sort of conspiracy. Just get over the fact that you didn't enjoy it and plenty of other people did.


Im surprised it was reviewed well.. by the NYTimes ilk and those that follow in-line. It was bone-crushingly dull in many parts and smacking of self-importantance.

Audiences seemed to like it as you assert. It got an 85% on rotten tomatoes by the audiences.. but there were definitely better movies. Maybe this was one that just didnt hit the mark for me as "the best". I did enjoy the movie in some parts, but for the most part it dragged on and felt like a bad adaptation of a book. I was pretty bored with this movie in the theatre, i guess I expected more.
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Re: 2017 TV/Movie/Book Thread with Spoilers 

Post#360 » by VooDoo7 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:10 am

Films win best picture every year that people don't agree with.

Birdman won a few years back, beating out Whiplash, The Imitation Game, Selma and The Theory of Everything. To me, that was a joke.

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