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Political Roundtable Part XIII

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#461 » by payitforward » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:45 pm

sfam wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
sfam wrote:For clarity, peacebuilding is "not" peacekeeping. Those are two very separate things. UN Missions do peacekeeping, lots of local advocates and international players do peacebuilding. UN Missions are good if there is an agreement in hand and you need to "keep the peace". This is not what has been happening. Instead we've seen failed states like South Sudan with the UN going in to stop the violence. As poor as the UN training may be, they weren't trained for that. I am certainly not at all advocating that.

Got that - what I am saying is that the UN is disfunctional and operationally inept. What I am saying is all the good intentions will fall back on the US again.

I've gotten to spend some time working with the UN. There's a complication that adds to the ineptness - the whole "member states" voting thing in practice makes the folks who work there have to abide by some truly bizarre conditions. Its dysfunctional by design in many ways, but what else would you expect from an organization who needs agreement from the majority, but allows 5 countries to veto anything?
dckingsfan wrote:I am not a Trump fan, I didn't vote for him. I think he is incompetent. But I am beginning to understand better why Trump succeeded. And a good part of that is we have had continued overreach from the past 3 administrations.

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Just a point on this. We have an age bulge which is quite different from the MENA region, which has a youth bulge. Our baby boomers are retiring, and taking a good percentage of the workforce with them. This may not be Obama's fault.

No President, no political party, is responsible for numbers like these workforce numbers. We are going through substantial macro-level changes in the technologies & industries that make up our economy. The biggest companies in our current economy simply don't employ the numbers of people that the biggest companies of 2 decades ago did. Moreover, those companies that were the biggest 2 decades ago also do not employ the numbers they used to employ. E.g. I believe GM 10 years ago had 4 times the employees it does now.

They simply don't need the numbers of people they once did. Obviously they aren't going to hire people they don't need.

I heard Warren Buffett the other night say "if we get to where one person can push one button and produce all the output the world needs, that will be better for everyone." None of this has the first thing to do with one or another political trend. The current one simply acts out the frustration & fear of change that go along with change this real, radical & quick. Understandable but irrelevant to what the future will bring.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#462 » by verbal8 » Wed Mar 1, 2017 1:16 am

gtn130 wrote:Trump supporters, can you explain why you're all so vehemently opposed to Trump (or anyone) releasing his tax returns?

Didn't the SNL skit answer that question :)
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#463 » by dckingsfan » Wed Mar 1, 2017 1:34 am

sfam wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
sfam wrote:For clarity, peacebuilding is "not" peacekeeping. Those are two very separate things. UN Missions do peacekeeping, lots of local advocates and international players do peacebuilding. UN Missions are good if there is an agreement in hand and you need to "keep the peace". This is not what has been happening. Instead we've seen failed states like South Sudan with the UN going in to stop the violence. As poor as the UN training may be, they weren't trained for that. I am certainly not at all advocating that.

Got that - what I am saying is that the UN is disfunctional and operationally inept. What I am saying is all the good intentions will fall back on the US again.

I've gotten to spend some time working with the UN. There's a complication that adds to the ineptness - the whole "member states" voting thing in practice makes the folks who work there have to abide by some truly bizarre conditions. Its dysfunctional by design in many ways, but what else would you expect from an organization who needs agreement from the majority, but allows 5 countries to veto anything?
dckingsfan wrote:I am not a Trump fan, I didn't vote for him. I think he is incompetent. But I am beginning to understand better why Trump succeeded. And a good part of that is we have had continued overreach from the past 3 administrations.

Image



Just a point on this. We have an age bulge which is quite different from the MENA region, which has a youth bulge. Our baby boomers are retiring, and taking a good percentage of the workforce with them. This may not be Obama's fault.

Cosign your point on the UN.

And none of that is Obama's fault. Sorry if my rants have seemed that way. I see it as more of an accumulation of the last 3 Administrations.

BTW, that chart is just for 25-54 year olds. The chart for all ages is even worse since we have an aging demographic.

You are right, we are an aging population - which makes Trumps notion of cutting immigration that much more silly.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#464 » by dckingsfan » Wed Mar 1, 2017 1:37 am

payitforward wrote:None of this has the first thing to do with one or another political trend.

I very much agreed with the rest of what you said - but in this case, I think the forces described are having an affect on political trends worldwide.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#465 » by AFM » Wed Mar 1, 2017 2:55 am

Can't lie, great speech by Trump. Should use teleprompter more....
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#466 » by AFM » Wed Mar 1, 2017 3:32 am

Holy schiet...that moment w/ the Navy SEAL's mother.... RIP.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#467 » by AFM » Wed Mar 1, 2017 3:51 am

If you didn't cry re: Ryan Owens and his wife, you have no heart...
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#468 » by Induveca » Wed Mar 1, 2017 11:08 am

Just watched it, I'm very happy. Even the media is admitting it was a great, unifying speech.

I hope this mends some wounds back in the US. It's a country I deeply love, and the past 7-8 months had been painful to endure.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#469 » by sfam » Wed Mar 1, 2017 3:54 pm

I am hoping to be able to go through 4 years without ever watching a Trump speech live. Or even afterwards. I do read a lot of transcripts though.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#470 » by dckingsfan » Wed Mar 1, 2017 3:54 pm

What Bernie didn't say:

- Entitlements are bankrupting our government and squeezing out all other investments, gee, he didn't bring that up, surprising.

- We have had no return on investment from the Department of Education and the Federal Government's meddling in Education - OTHER THAN THOSE VERY SAME STUDENT DEBTS, he didn't mention that he was part of the problem, go figure.

He does make a very good points about Defense spending.

Same with the ACA - again though, he didn't say how he would pay for it... go figure.

I give him the same overall grade for truthfulness as Trump at this point. Sad.

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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#471 » by I_Like_Dirt » Wed Mar 1, 2017 4:00 pm

dckingsfan wrote:I very much agreed with the rest of what you said - but in this case, I think the forces described are having an affect on political trends worldwide.


This is 100% the case. It's also one of the more crucial times in history where strong, intelligent and creative leadership is required, because things can go horribly wrong. How the world works is going to be increasingly changing relative to how most people are used to it working, and that's going to make quite a few people scared and angry and put them in more financially vulnerable situations.

Automation is both a potentially amazing benefit to everyone, and an incredibly dangerous tool as well. If robots everywhere are doing 99% of the work for the world, that could be an amazing scenario where almost nobody has to work and everybody has everything they could possibly need and then some. It could also be a dystopian nightmare where 99.99999% of the population are de facto serfs of the few people who own those robots, and beholden to the whims of the wealthy, who get to decide who those robots will and won't serve, and are able to essentially tell some people to go die in a gutter because they aren't needed. Reality is going to be something in between, but I'm relatively concerned myself, already, in the direction the world has largely been taking.

I can absolutely understand how Trump is so popular, which is why I've been suggesting that both political parties needed to wake up to what was really happening rather than mocking him even before the primaries got underway. And it sucks, because Trump absolutely isn't doing things that are going to solve the problems that are driving the fears of most of those who supported him, but nobody else was really standing up with creative ideas they could get behind, either. It also sucks, because there is such a large gap in the population on other issues, that it makes the population as a whole very easy to divide against itself. In all honesty, it isn't fair to ask of either side, but we need to see more traditional Republicans get past their racism and other prejudices and we need more traditional Democrats to get past their own biases, including their instant repudiation of any associated with certain biases, their air of superiority, and their belief that their macro ideas are always right. I'm not convinced it's going to happen, but without both, I'm rather pessimistic with the direction the traditional western democratic world is headed.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#472 » by Kanyewest » Wed Mar 1, 2017 4:20 pm

dckingsfan wrote:What Bernie didn't say:

- Entitlements are bankrupting our government and squeezing out all other investments, gee, he didn't bring that up, surprising.

- We have had no return on investment from the Department of Education and the Federal Government's meddling in Education - OTHER THAN THOSE VERY SAME STUDENT DEBTS, he didn't mention that he was part of the problem, go figure.

He does make a very good points about Defense spending.

Same with the ACA - again though, he didn't say how he would pay for it... go figure.

I give him the same overall grade for truthfulness as Trump at this point. Sad.



For some reason he audio on this video isn't working for me. Anyways, Sanders clearly is for raising taxes at a higher rate. I would say there are potential flaws to his plan but he's not lying about it like Trump has been.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#473 » by Kanyewest » Wed Mar 1, 2017 4:31 pm

AFM wrote:If you didn't cry re: Ryan Owens and his wife, you have no heart...


Eh... It was a sentimental moment for sure. Still, Trump is now calling the Yemen mission a success after he blamed it on Obama even though Trump signed off the plan. By the way, the father of the Navy seal refused to meet with Trump and is calling for an investigation.

"Why at this time did there have to be this stupid mission when it wasn't even barely a week into his administration?”, he said. “Why?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/us-navy-seal-ryan-owens-killed-meet-donald-trump-full-investigation-a7604031.html
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#474 » by dckingsfan » Wed Mar 1, 2017 4:33 pm

Kanyewest wrote:Anyways, Sanders clearly is for raising taxes at a higher rate. I would say there are potential flaws to his plan but he's not lying about it like Trump has been.

Where Sanders is lying is that he can't pay for it. He said he would just raise taxes on the 1% to pay for it - they would have to pay over 100% of their income. He knows he is lying.

But yes, he isn't lying about Trump's lying :)
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#475 » by Wizardspride » Wed Mar 1, 2017 4:49 pm

sfam wrote:I am hoping to be able to go through 4 years without ever watching a Trump s.peech live Or even afterwards. I do read a lot of transcripts though.

That's my goal as well.

Not MY President....for a number of reasons.

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#476 » by sfam » Wed Mar 1, 2017 5:01 pm

Wizardspride wrote:
sfam wrote:I am hoping to be able to go through 4 years without ever watching a Trump s.peech live Or even afterwards. I do read a lot of transcripts though.

That's my goal as well.

Not MY President....for a number of reasons.

My favorite line from the speech is his saying, "The time for trivial fights is behind us." This is literally the bulk of everything Trump has ever done, certainly since running for President.

Trump defines the phrase, "Trivial Fights".

Its nice he's learned out to read a speech though, even if perhaps he's not all that familiar or agrees with the content. That is an important part of being President.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#477 » by gtn130 » Wed Mar 1, 2017 5:14 pm

read a speech from a teleprompter without sounding like an imbecile! so presidential!
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#478 » by payitforward » Wed Mar 1, 2017 5:19 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
payitforward wrote:None of this has the first thing to do with one or another political trend.

I very much agreed with the rest of what you said - but in this case, I think the forces described are having an affect on political trends worldwide.

& vice versa -- the rise of a refurbished nationalist right wing in Europe provides impetus for the same here. But I meant to be talking about economic transformation. That's happening on its own dime, independent of politics. Nor can politics stop it. Except, I suppose, at an enormous cost to the economy -- i.e. to our people.
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#479 » by Kanyewest » Wed Mar 1, 2017 5:24 pm

dckingsfan wrote:
Kanyewest wrote:Anyways, Sanders clearly is for raising taxes at a higher rate. I would say there are potential flaws to his plan but he's not lying about it like Trump has been.

Where Sanders is lying is that he can't pay for it. He said he would just raise taxes on the 1% to pay for it - they would have to pay over 100% of their income. He knows he is lying.

But yes, he isn't lying about Trump's lying :)


Audio isn't working on the youtube video for me. If he said that he is lying though because I believe his tax plan also said that he would raise taxes on pretty much everyone. Although he has generally justified that in the past saying that the people who are poorer end up getting more out of the system
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Re: Political Roundtable Part XIII 

Post#480 » by Wizardspride » Wed Mar 1, 2017 5:29 pm

Read on Twitter

President Donald Trump referred to African countries, Haiti and El Salvador as "shithole" nations during a meeting Thursday and asked why the U.S. can't have more immigrants from Norway.

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