Alex Len

GotEm · Post #221 » by **GotEm** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:00 am

Looks like he will get the opportunity to start the remainder of the games this season. Hope he doesn't suffer an injury.

His athleticism looks to have declined from the time he got drafted. Yesterday, 35 year old Dwayne Wade dunked on him with ease and Len tried to contest it but just didn't seem to have the lift to get up there. Hopefully he gets it back soon.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #222 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:49 pm

GotEm wrote:Looks like he will get the opportunity to start the remainder of the games this season. Hope he doesn't suffer an injury.

His athleticism looks to have declined from the time he got drafted. Yesterday, 35 year old Dwayne Wade dunked on him with ease and Len tried to contest it but just didn't seem to have the lift to get up there. Hopefully he gets it back soon.

I think that likely had to do with tired legs. He'd been in the game... what, 34 minutes to that point?

The simple truth about Alex is that if he could make his shots, he'd be a max player. Heck, if he could just draw fouls more often when he went up near the rim, he'd be a top 10 center.

Even if he doesn't blow us away these last 25 games, I think he'd still be a good rotation piece for us next season. Just let him play Bogut's role - 16-18 MPG as a starter. Then use Dragan, Chriss and Williams at center, depending on matchups. That's worth a good $12 million per, I'd think.

jcsunsfan · Post #223 » by **jcsunsfan** » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:57 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:
GotEm wrote:Looks like he will get the opportunity to start the remainder of the games this season. Hope he doesn't suffer an injury.

His athleticism looks to have declined from the time he got drafted. Yesterday, 35 year old Dwayne Wade dunked on him with ease and Len tried to contest it but just didn't seem to have the lift to get up there. Hopefully he gets it back soon.

I think that likely had to do with tired legs. He'd been in the game... what, 34 minutes to that point?

The simple truth about Alex is that if he could make his shots, he'd be a max player. Heck, if he could just draw fouls more often when he went up near the rim, he'd be a top 10 center.

Even if he doesn't blow us away these last 25 games, I think he'd still be a good rotation piece for us next season. Just let him play Bogut's role - 16-18 MPG as a starter. Then use Dragan, Chriss and Williams at center, depending on matchups. That's worth a good $12 million per, I'd think.

I think this is a wise course of action. Forget where he was drafted. Forget the expectations. Look at what he is. He is a useful big man. Pay him for what he is.

GotEm · Post #224 » by **GotEm** » Wed Mar 1, 2017 6:29 am

cosmofizzo wrote:
GotEm wrote:Looks like he will get the opportunity to start the remainder of the games this season. Hope he doesn't suffer an injury.

His athleticism looks to have declined from the time he got drafted. Yesterday, 35 year old Dwayne Wade dunked on him with ease and Len tried to contest it but just didn't seem to have the lift to get up there. Hopefully he gets it back soon.

I think that likely had to do with tired legs. He'd been in the game... what, 34 minutes to that point?

The simple truth about Alex is that if he could make his shots, he'd be a max player. Heck, if he could just draw fouls more often when he went up near the rim, he'd be a top 10 center.

Even if he doesn't blow us away these last 25 games, I think he'd still be a good rotation piece for us next season. Just let him play Bogut's role - 16-18 MPG as a starter. Then use Dragan, Chriss and Williams at center, depending on matchups. That's worth a good $12 million per, I'd think.

Yeah $12M/yr is about the most he should be getting.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #225 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Wed Mar 1, 2017 3:22 pm

I don't think he even gets 12 per year. He might be lucky to get 10 per year. Go through the league and try to find where an offer will come from... it hard with a very saturated c market.

I could see a scenario where he plays next year on the QO or maybe does a shorter term deal (3 yrs with a player option after 2).

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jcsunsfan · Post #226 » by **jcsunsfan** » Wed Mar 1, 2017 4:52 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:I don't think he even gets 12 per year. He might be lucky to get 10 per year. Go through the league and try to find where an offer will come from... it hard with a very saturated c market.

I could see a scenario where he plays next year on the QO or maybe does a shorter term deal (3 yrs with a player option after 2).

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Dudley money. Thats what I think.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #227 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Wed Mar 1, 2017 5:15 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:
WeekapaugGroove wrote:I don't think he even gets 12 per year. He might be lucky to get 10 per year. Go through the league and try to find where an offer will come from... it hard with a very saturated c market.

I could see a scenario where he plays next year on the QO or maybe does a shorter term deal (3 yrs with a player option after 2).

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Dudley money. Thats what I think.

I think that's solid. One thing that's become clear over the stretch of games is that Williams cannot guard starting centers. He just doesn't have the height to do anything against them inside defensively.

Another thing that's become clear is how much Alex hurts our offense with the fact that he can't convert when the offense gets him the ball 6 feet from the basket. That's automatic for Big Sauce. If it were automatic for Alex, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Alex would have already gotten his extension.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #228 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Wed Mar 1, 2017 5:24 pm

I think lens biggest problem is the game simply doesnt come naturally to him. He seems to have to think about everything on offense and because of that hes just a half step slow and robotic. Im not sure that ever gets totally better. Now on the positive side his sheer size allows him to be a decent defender and should keep in in the league for a decade if he stays healthy.

Oh and yeah big sauce is absolutely not starter material. His physical limitations make that impossible. I wouldn't mind keeping him around as an 11th man type but thats his ceiling imo.

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kennydorglas · Post #229 » by **kennydorglas** » Wed Mar 1, 2017 6:29 pm

If we can sign him under 14M/yr, it's a highway robbery on this new market.

RaisingArizona · Post #230 » by **RaisingArizona** » Wed Mar 1, 2017 6:53 pm

For anything more than Dudley $, I wouldn't be a fan. Too inconsistent. For every productive game, he has about 4-5 other games where he has no impact.

Post #231 » by **rsavaj** » Wed Mar 1, 2017 7:09 pm

I consider myself a Len fan and I'm not sure I'd go over 12 mill, even with the new cap. Anything more could be better spent elsewhere...I think.

Mulhollanddrive · Post #232 » by **Mulhollanddrive** » Wed Mar 1, 2017 11:50 pm

$16m per 4 years would still be a free asset to sign, movable even if he doesn't improve.

He'll only be 26 in the 3rd year as a 7 footer that averages a double-double (per 36).

DRK · Post #233 » by **DRK** » Thu Mar 2, 2017 12:35 pm

Yeah... Len is getting 15mil+ annually. Mozgov got 4/64, as did Ian Mahinmi, and Miles freakin' Plumlee got 5/40.

Post #234 » by **lilfishi22** » Thu Mar 2, 2017 12:48 pm

I'm comfortable with Len on around $14-16m.

Saberestar · Post #235 » by **Saberestar** » Thu Mar 2, 2017 1:28 pm

DRK wrote:Yeah... Len is getting 15mil+ annually. Mozgov got 4/64, as did Ian Mahinmi, and Miles freakin' Plumlee got 5/40.

Those three are probably the worst contracts in the entire league. We want to give Len that money knowing that?

It is obvious that the NBA does not need big slow centers who can not shoot anymore. Look at Asik, Ajinca, Mozgov or Marjanovic...they do not play because they are not effective, it is wasted money.

Len is similar to those players, I expect him to play around 18 minutes per game at most on our team next season and we are gonna have difficulties to trade him if we give him a big salary.

Can we learn about our recent mistakes?
We have Knight's contract at $14M per year for another few years and it is not gonna be easy to trade away.

We do not need another big bad contract IMO.
I would sign him at $9M per year at most, not more than that.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #236 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Thu Mar 2, 2017 2:57 pm

Saberestar wrote:
DRK wrote:Yeah... Len is getting 15mil+ annually. Mozgov got 4/64, as did Ian Mahinmi, and Miles freakin' Plumlee got 5/40.

Those three are probably the worst contracts in the entire league. We want to give Len that money knowing that?

It is obvious that the NBA does not need big slow centers who can not shoot anymore. Look at Asik, Ajinca, Mozgov or Marjanovic...they do not play because they are not effective, it is wasted money.

Len is similar to those players, I expect him to play around 18 minutes per game at most on our team next season and we are gonna have difficulties to trade him if we give him a big salary.

Can we learn about our recent mistakes?
We have Knight's contract at $14M per year for another few years and it is not gonna be easy to trade away.

We do not need another big bad contract IMO.
I would sign him at $9M per year at most, not more than that.

I think it's useful to have one true big, and I'm okay paying reasonable money for such a player. I just don't want two such players. If we re-sign Alex, Tyson has to go. Whatever we sign Alex to will be close to his perceived market value - his contract won't be worth more than a second round pick or so on the day it is signed. Can we move Tyson for that kind of return? Do we want to lock up an 18 MPG center for two years or four? Do we value veteran leadership or rim protection? It'll all work itself out - the stakes aren't really that high at this point.

Post #237 » by **lilfishi22** » Thu Mar 2, 2017 11:14 pm

WeekapaugGroove wrote:I think lens biggest problem is the game simply doesnt come naturally to him. He seems to have to think about everything on offense and because of that hes just a half step slow and robotic. Im not sure that ever gets totally better. Now on the positive side his sheer size allows him to be a decent defender and should keep in in the league for a decade if he stays healthy.

Oh and yeah big sauce is absolutely not starter material. His physical limitations make that impossible. I wouldn't mind keeping him around as an 11th man type but thats his ceiling imo.

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I don't think he'll ever "get it" on offense. As you mentioned, he's far too robotic in movement and in thinking. He doesn't react to what's given to him very well. But it isn't the end of the world. He just needs to be good enough on offense to shoot above 50% to not be a liability. There are very few C's in the league that are equally as good on offense as they are on defense and most of them sit in one side of the fence or the other. So you don't need to be great at both to be a starting C, you just need not be a liability on offense.

But I do think his impact on defense will continue to get better. His rebounding picked up when he started for us earlier in the season but that's dropped off a bit post AS which is a bit disappointing however I'll chalk that up to him trying to find his rhythm. I'm not the biggest fan of Len but I do see where he can be productive.

LukasBMW · Post #238 » by **LukasBMW** » Sat Mar 4, 2017 5:28 am

If anyone "maxes" Len, they can keep him.

Imagine how much weed Len can buy on a max deal. He'll play even worse. :lol:

MilotheSlayer · Post #239 » by **MilotheSlayer** » Mon Mar 6, 2017 9:45 pm

Got to watch him in person the past 3 games. I considered myself a Len fan up until I watched him. For a guy that's been in the league a few years he is absolutely lost on offense. Now part of that is because he isn't involved on offense and is only used for screens. He gets flustered too easily when he gets the ball in the post and that affects his defensive game. If Len would accept the Tyson role of grabbing 13rebounds a game and playing great defense (I think he should be better on D than Chandler), I'd have no issue forking over 15-17mil a year for him. On the other hand we could get a guy like Hibbert, Jordan Hill, or Withey and pay them a lot less money and get similar production backing up Tyson.

Although Len still has potential on offense, in todays NBA he isn't going to get the opportunity to work on his game and improve his post game. And until he accepts his role on our roster as a 8pt/12rb/2bk, I'm not comfortable paying him more than 10million a year.

ImNotMcDiSwear · Post #240 » by **ImNotMcDiSwear** » Mon Mar 6, 2017 10:43 pm

MilotheSlayer wrote:Got to watch him in person the past 3 games. I considered myself a Len fan up until I watched him. For a guy that's been in the league a few years he is absolutely lost on offense. Now part of that is because he isn't involved on offense and is only used for screens. He gets flustered too easily when he gets the ball in the post and that affects his defensive game. If Len would accept the Tyson role of grabbing 13rebounds a game and playing great defense (I think he should be better on D than Chandler), I'd have no issue forking over 15-17mil a year for him. On the other hand we could get a guy like Hibbert, Jordan Hill, or Withey and pay them a lot less money and get similar production backing up Tyson.

Although Len still has potential on offense, in todays NBA he isn't going to get the opportunity to work on his game and improve his post game. And until he accepts his role on our roster as a 8pt/12rb/2bk, I'm not comfortable paying him more than 10million a year.

I was thinking this morning, How many teams would sign Len with the intent of starting him?

... I'm not certain any such teams exist. In which case, Alex might be looking at some rather unimpressive offers.